Indy car turbo on a sup [Archive] - Supraforums.com

: Indy car turbo on a sup



mdcmotorsports
02-11-2003, 02:00 PM
Ok guys... here's the scoop on the sup....
I got my hands on an old indy car turbo from the 90's. It is a holset turbo AKA Ford Cosworth.
This thing is brand new!
Need help though....
It doesn't have the exhaust manifold AT ALL. Just the turbine out in the open air. I also need a new compressor "Snail" for the front, as the "Snail" housing now has special fuel injector holes in it for direct fuel turbo injection.
Any ideas on where I could find housings or parts for this thing from a Holset dealer would be great.
Thanks.

SupraPowaz!
02-11-2003, 03:08 PM
i would have no clue, but pics would be great. maybe someone who sees the pics can get a better understanding of what he's looking at in order to help.

jt2ma71
02-11-2003, 04:55 PM
Anyway you could rework/weld the injector holes shut? Why would it have that? Just haven't heard such a thing before. Manifold, maybe make an adapter/falnge that will match the inlet. Any info on it's spool characteristics? You sure you don't need engine revs that are way past the 7M's redline? Is the exhaust housing VATN? Post some pictures, maybe I can weld the holes shut.

ZaZZn
02-11-2003, 05:27 PM
Fuel could have been injected there since gormets would prob leak under high boost... Logical thing to do is inject before air is compressed.

makenzie71
02-11-2003, 05:38 PM
Keep in mind that late 80s and early 90s indy cars didn't even begin to make power until after 7K rpm.

mdcmotorsports
02-11-2003, 09:52 PM
"jt2ma71" thanks for the offer on the welding... but thats what I do for a job... I weld race cars together...
As for the injector ports.. yes "ZaZZn" thats what they are for. The Ford Cosworth indy car V8 produces so much boost at 11,000rpm that it will pop injector seals. (around 55-65psi) So to solve the problem, they direct injected the fuel into the compressor.
As for the 7m's redline... mine doesn't redline untill 9600rpm. How? Just ask......
As for pics of this monster... soon. I need the rear housing bad!
Thanks.

toddman35
02-11-2003, 10:02 PM
Ok i'll bite, why doesnt your car redline until 9600?

suprakam88
02-11-2003, 11:02 PM
Step one 9600 RPMS is fucking crazy for a 7m, and for a honda (my buddies B16a does 10g, and buddies gsr does 9400g). THat's bs i'm sorry.(be happy to say i'm a dumbass for saying when proven wrong because if this is true then we'll that's just f^ckin awsome)

And i really wouldn't inject fuel in there because with that kind of heat and some very flammable fluid. But would nitrous be as good as i would think, cooling the turbo down. and inlet temps, with cooling the intercooler. OOOOOO, use it for alcohol and a water mixture, u can use your washer reservoir. THere's a lot of kits, it richness things up, and cleans your valves really nicely.
little hp too, and help spool the turbo also.

Kam

51Cards
02-11-2003, 11:27 PM
This is your project car? Sounds like the build is coming along well...

http://www.mdcmotorsports.com/supra.htm

animantoric
02-11-2003, 11:54 PM
Hehe, visit the website....whole Ferrea top end...
Other thing is indy turbo = 50+psi = blow injector orings out. Pay attention!:rolleyes:
Next item boys and girls, rpm doesn't mean anything with turbos...
It's all about the exhaust gas volume. I think the cossie that this turbo came off of was a small 4-banger (1.5?) We have the benefit of much more displacement so we can create the requisite exhaust at much lower rpms.
Hey mdcmotor, you have a new set of cams? Gunna need em if you wanna shift the powerband up that high.....:D :D

makenzie71
02-12-2003, 12:11 AM
Yeah, the late 80s and early 90s Indy cars were mostly 1.5ish liter engines cranking in excess of 1000rwhp...if memory serves it was much more but I don't remember for certain. The thing is though is that they reved to extreme RPMs...some up to 16000rpm...Even a 1.5liter engine is going to put out tremendous amounts of exhaust gasses at 13000rpm...which was power time for most of those cars. So you've got a 3 liter that revs to 9K...putting your power in the vacinity of 6-7K. Even with your 3 lliters at work I don't think you'll keep up with a 1.5@13000rpm...and for those of you saying that twice the displacement=twice the exhaust gasses it doesn't exactly work that way.

Now, I'm not saying I know what I'm talking about, but I do have a fair understanding of some of these things. I may be wrong, and for the awesome potential your car would have if this was pulled off I hope I am...I just can't see it...

1ndecent
02-12-2003, 06:11 AM
For god's sake give us some pics! :wackit:

mdcmotorsports
02-12-2003, 08:08 AM
-Yes I have new cams...
-No I won't run 50psi in the sup....
-22 will do nicely...
-9600rpm available through a $1500 in parts Ferrea valve job top end... springs and every thing. Go to www.mdcmotorsports.com/supra.html
-Yes thats the website of my car
-The indy car that this came off of (I was told) was a Ford V8, or V6... about a 180CI producing 1000+ hp @ 12,000rpm
-Some of the early indy car motors were opposing flat 4's or V-6 like the Buicks and stuff.
-Pics today!! I promise. 2-12-03 (12.00 noon indiana time)
-Any thing else just let me know
- By the way.... "1ndecent" thats the best Icon I have seen in a long time.

Beoonthepunk
02-12-2003, 08:14 AM
www.mjmturbos.com sells indy cart turbos i believe you could email them and see if they can get you the houseings.

mdcmotorsports
02-12-2003, 12:10 PM
pic #1

mdcmotorsports
02-12-2003, 12:32 PM
pic#3

mdcmotorsports
02-12-2003, 12:39 PM
pic#4

mdcmotorsports
02-12-2003, 12:41 PM
pic#5

Zach90Turbo
02-12-2003, 06:52 PM
I hope you're planning on destroking it, you're liable to put a rod through all that pretty headwork at 9600 rpm

turbotoy
02-12-2003, 07:26 PM
Can I ask exactly what crank/rods/pistons you are using to achieve this 9600 RPM redline?

ma71supraturbo
02-12-2003, 07:40 PM
Originally posted by turbotoy
Can I ask exactly what crank/rods/pistons you are using to achieve this 9600 RPM redline?

His website said "toyota racing" rods and JE pistons

A2FX37
02-12-2003, 08:11 PM
Provided it all works...that will be a bad ass setup. Large turbo....high redline. Just make sure you post sounds of the 7m reving that high :eek:

mdcmotorsports
02-12-2003, 09:12 PM
If you are wondering about the crank... I had it lightened (I don't have the stats.. but if you want, you can ask and I will get the info...) balanced, and the journals re-ground.
As for the oiling system.... try about 70psi @ 8500rpm. The trick to boost the oil pressure? Use a small block chevy spring in replacement of the stock Toyota spring.

:eek:

turbotoy
02-12-2003, 09:45 PM
Too bad you had to get the crank journals re-ground.... The crank isn't the issue when it comes to high RPM limits though - the rods are. The tensile stress in the connecting rod increases with the square of RPM, thus you will need rods with ~2.2 times the strength of the OEM rods to maintain the OEM factory of safety at your proposed 9600 RPM redline.

1ndecent
02-13-2003, 01:43 AM
:wackit:

MelloYello
02-13-2003, 07:35 AM
Thanks for the info on the oil pump. I may have to look into that. I had mine shimmed to get about 5-10 more psi.

Good luck w/ the project, although I don't see your motor lasting more than a day w/ a 9600 rpm redline. If you destroked it to 2.8L w/ the 5M crank and getting some crower rods, I could see you trying 8500 to 9000 rpm but oh well...

2JZ_MA70
02-13-2003, 07:54 AM
If all you have is head work done and you are claming that you will be able to go 9000+ rpm... I dont see that happening without shadering your pistons and bending the hell of your rods!
You would need super high light weight botom end considering that the stock engine is stroker.... The piston weight increases exponentialy with RPM. Unles you decrese the displacement and requce the piston speed I dont see the results you are looking for... Also are these valves oversized? The 7M has a relatevly small bore and out valves are relatevly small for the displacent.
I can definitely see 10K RPM out of the 1JZ or the 2JZ but not the 7M I think 8K would be pushing it.


Originally posted by mdcmotorsports
-Yes I have new cams...
-No I won't run 50psi in the sup....
-22 will do nicely...
-9600rpm available through a $1500 in parts Ferrea valve job top end... springs and every thing. Go to www.mdcmotorsports.com/supra.html
-Yes thats the website of my car
-The indy car that this came off of (I was told) was a Ford V8, or V6... about a 180CI producing 1000+ hp @ 12,000rpm
-Some of the early indy car motors were opposing flat 4's or V-6 like the Buicks and stuff.
-Pics today!! I promise. 2-12-03 (12.00 noon indiana time)
-Any thing else just let me know
- By the way.... "1ndecent" thats the best Icon I have seen in a long time.

Craig King
10-24-2003, 07:41 PM
Looks like it came off of a Mack truck... :dunno:

mdr40z
10-24-2003, 08:10 PM
itty bitty little turbo,, how are you gonna make that fit?

chevyeater-on-sf
10-24-2003, 08:30 PM
Wow. Back from the dead.

I think the dude gave up on the indycar turbo months ago since he already has a Cummins diesel turbo on the car.

blackout_89t
10-24-2003, 08:43 PM
dayuuuum...that thing is a monster!!

mdcmotorsports
10-24-2003, 11:27 PM
Yeah this post was WAYYYY TOOO LONG AGO WHEN i WAS AN TOTALLY IGNORANT N E W B I E!!!!!
9 grand on a 7m? I can actually look in the mirror and call my self a dumbass!
As for this turbo.... yeah, I gave up on the idea since I got the small little Dodge turbo on it. Had a BAD DAY TODAY. Any body out there know the differences between the types of oil seals used in turbos today??? PM me if you do.....

josbeat
10-25-2003, 05:29 AM
fuel pump Way not with iT? http://www.supras.nl/suprasport/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=43_14_19&products_id=412&osCsid=4ef2f2ccb23fd48d478a71907595f279

and the crank way not with it: http://www.supras.nl/suprasport/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=381&osCsid=4ef2f2ccb23fd48d478a71907595f279

mdcmotorsports
11-01-2003, 01:07 AM
Heres another one on ebay... THIS IS NOT MY TURBO BUT WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2440314055&category=33742

MK3Brent
11-01-2003, 02:06 PM
Oh Christ.... what's the lag on one o' dem?

Simba
11-01-2003, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by makenzie71
The thing is though is that they reved to extreme RPMs...some up to 16000rpm...Even a 1.5liter engine is going to put out tremendous amounts of exhaust gasses at 13000rpm.

RPM has little to do with it. It's engine load which significantly effects exhaust flow.

This would be why you can maintain 6k rpm with 5% throttle in a high gear and make no boost. Crank on the throttle, load goes up, and the turbo makes boost.

As for spinning 9+k rpm on the 7m, it's quite possible. The issue will be piston velocity on the rings, so don't plan on getting any significant mileage out of an engine that sees a lot of duty at that RPM, but it won't explode "just because" assuming it was built properly.

Silver88Turbo
11-01-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by mdcmotorsports
Yeah this post was WAYYYY TOOO LONG AGO WHEN i WAS AN TOTALLY IGNORANT N E W B I E!!!!!
9 grand on a 7m? I can actually look in the mirror and call my self a dumbass!
As for this turbo.... yeah, I gave up on the idea since I got the small little Dodge turbo on it. Had a BAD DAY TODAY. Any body out there know the differences between the types of oil seals used in turbos today??? PM me if you do.....

:lol: I didnt think any 7m could do 9k.

How did that stronger spring in the oil pump work out for ya?

bdekoning
11-01-2003, 08:08 PM
i love this community. all of you ricers thinking that a 6500 rpm factory redline is "A TRUCK ENGINE". i bet most of you dont know that most of the FAST v8 muscle cars you see running at the strip are running 8000-9000 RPM redlines and those motors are not nearly as balanced or have the potential to rev high as our inline 6 motors... being able to redline reliably at 6500 from the factory is a high revving motor and i dont see why it couldnt do 9000-10000 with the right amount of money invested. like any car, you have to pay to play.

Boostin88T
11-01-2003, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by MelloYello
Thanks for the info on the oil pump. I may have to look into that. I had mine shimmed to get about 5-10 more psi.

Good luck w/ the project, although I don't see your motor lasting more than a day w/ a 9600 rpm redline. If you destroked it to 2.8L w/ the 5M crank and getting some crower rods, I could see you trying 8500 to 9000 rpm but oh well...

Mello, any directions on the upping on oil pressure?

Silver88Turbo
11-01-2003, 09:59 PM
I am willing to bet that all of those v8 that are revving to 8k and above, have shorter strokes than the 7m.

And fyi the 7m was modeled after a chevy truck block.

adjuster
11-02-2003, 12:06 AM
Sounds like a good pedigree to me, Chevy truck I6's were pretty dang good motors.
No wonder the 7M has so much potential. Toyota took a good thing, and made it better. (Like so many Japanese companies have done with so many products.)
Anyone noticed that GM has gone back to the I6? Seems the advantages of a smooth and tourqe producing design have not changed much over the years. Too bad Toyota appears ready to drop the I6, and go with some V6, V8 and V10 designs with no turbo's. (What really sucks is they have the motor in the 2jz, but they are going to let it go because some Marketing wank thinks youth want to buy the Bb and Ba boxes...? The Supra Mk5 if it ever arrives, will aparently never be the car the Mk4, or even Mk3's have become.)