Best Year for MKIII?

[AKain]

I'm just wondering what is the best year to buy if I'm going to get a turbo MKIII

thanx

[SupraTrey]

IMO and 88 is the best year....... No water engine mounts...... and if you dont like the pre 89 tails and front... well that can change.

[Turbo Johnson]

late 89.

The late 89 was basically the 89+ without the extra weight of the airbag, and it has the best looking steering wheel.

92's are also nice just because they are rare. I really dig the all red 92's on charcoal grey interior.

-Cory

[s000pra89T]

Originally posted by Turbo Johnson
late 89.

The late 89 was basically the 89+ without the extra weight of the airbag, and it has the best looking steering wheel.

92's are also nice just because they are rare. I really dig the all red 92's on charcoal grey interior.

-Cory

:werd:

Trey! Show me a new sig bro! :bigthumb:

[fatboy]

definatley 1995, cause no one else in the world would have a 95 MK3 haha. I dunno really about mechanically, but I think a 92 5-speed Turbo would be the best, being so rare and all, and they look awsome.

[Shawndude]

Ignoring looks of the car, I would suggest 89+ Supra.

The main benefits are the revised rear suspension, and a progressive speed sensitive power steering.

These two items are very difficult to change over to the pre 89 cars, unless you have an entire donor vehicle.

The rest is easily swappable without much hassle.

[Madghost]

the 87, cuz theyre cheaper so u can allocate more cash for mods.

[Thermactor]

1992 teal turbo targa with dark grey (almost black) leather interior and 5 speed.

Calling Bishop to this thread!

[MattOneDime]

All years.. but I like 91-92.. Power sliding sunroof, and I think the wheels look better as well. But I have owned em all, and they all rock!

:rockon:

[Shawndude]

Originally posted by mk3turbosupra
....... But I have owned em all, and they all rock!

:rockon:

Kind of a loaded question, but can you tell any handling diference with the 89+ rear suspension, compared to the previous years?

I know its a tough question, as all cars we get are used, and hence in different states of disrepair.

But I have always wanted to ask people who have had enough time to get used to their cars (I really can't tell all that much, by a short test drive).

Thank you.....Sdude.

[MattOneDime]

Well.. about the only thing I noticed was on the 87 & 88 (stock) the front end sat higher than the rear.. this led to bad front tire lift in hard corners.. the rear end would squat under accelleration and you would feel the steering breaking loose.. (Many call this understeer.. hehe).. On my 91 (which I have now). .the front end (with stock springs) sat IMO an inch lower and the rear end does not squat nearly as much. Another thing I noticed is that the pre 89's are more prone to wheel hop at the track.. These things could be just a matter of how the car was abused by its previous owner.. but there is for sure a difference in ride and cornering ablilty when I compare the 87/88 to my 91. I know I'll get flamed by the pre 89 guys, but I think the newer ones handle a little better.

[Shawndude]

Wow, you type fast!

Thank you for the description.

The 89+ sits 1/2" lower, so you're not halucinating :). The 89+ also have different shocks, sway bars, springs (hence the drop), revised rear subframe (with possibly revised geometry).

The 91+ had new front lower A-arms, revised power steering (even compared to 89+), revised shock mounts, and I'm sure there was more but I can't remember off hand.

If anyone else has owned both versions of MKIII, feel free to enlighten me as well :).

Once again, thank you for the input....Sdude.

[Mikado]

KNEW there was a reason I need to buy another one... all those revisions to the 91-92s sound too good to pass up!

Good thing my girlfriend's thrilled to help with anything on 'em... unlike some who get yelled at for having even one...

All these revisions on the '89+ - anyone know what month they started in?

[CSR Ma71]

Of course I like the 88's. Check my website where I was just debating both sides of the coin. As a joke of course to piss off some local Supra owners because they couldn't stop talking. (Creepy stalker, date rapist, puppy killer, panty sniffer, boyband groupee, they all know what I'm talking about.)

http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/icyurthong/supra.html

[adjuster]

I like my 88, but would not pass up a full rear susp from a 91/92 to bolt in.
Speaking of that, I have a worn out bushing on the lower right rear hub attachment point.
Are these replaceable, or am I going to need a new hub?
How about SS's new (supposidly upcoming) bushing kit?
That seems like a good fix all the way around.
I have springs/bars/new ball joints up front/ etc.

[pumpkins01]

86.5-92 :)

[MattOneDime]

Oh.. dont forget 93's.. I was shocked to learn there are 93 MKIII's

[89SupraN/A]

yeah i heard the MK4s started in '93.5. so if true, the first half of 93 was MK3s. unless they quit makeing for bout 6 months

[Shawndude]

Originally posted by adjuster
Speaking of that, I have a worn out bushing on the lower right rear hub attachment point.

I'm sure I answered you on that, in another thread. Maybe you didn't see it.

Yes, all the bushings/sperical bearings are replaceable on the hubs, with parts available from Toyota.

[Larry_A]

Differences are moot, esp when shi+ is worn out to hell.
The '92 will always be best...it's the newest, no other reason is necessary.

[Boostin88T]

LA has a point, but since you're going to fix everything anyway, an 1988 Hardtop is the best...well, from experience it is.

[Turbo Johnson]

Originally posted by Shawndude


Kind of a loaded question, but can you tell any handling diference with the 89+ rear suspension, compared to the previous years?

I know its a tough question, as all cars we get are used, and hence in different states of disrepair.

But I have always wanted to ask people who have had enough time to get used to their cars (I really can't tell all that much, by a short test drive).

Thank you.....Sdude.

Well, I've owned two 87's, and a 90, and I can tell you honestly that under acceleration from a stop, the 87 on stock suspension squatted down low, like the wheels were sucking the back in, and it was easier to fishtail. In the 90 on both stock suspension, and upgraded suspension, there's a large difference. 90+ feels smoother.

-Cory

[MN23]

After 2 89's, 1 87, and 1 92, I would say 92 is the best. The seals on the targa dont leak, the interior isnt a some strange color, and the rims rock. I hate cleaning sawblades.


I really dig the all red 92's on charcoal grey interior.
Fo sheeze

[BramptonSupra]

Any of the 89+. You ge modern bells and whistles.

[OneWingedAngel]

92 with all the options.

You get the 89+ advantages, plus the 91+ wheels, plus its the rarest, plus charchol interior, plus the upgraded factory alarm with keyless and glass breakage sensors.

[sammydafish]

Originally posted by OneWingedAngel
92 with all the options.

You get the 89+ advantages, plus the 91+ wheels, plus its the rarest, plus charchol interior, plus the upgraded factory alarm with keyless and glass breakage sensors.

Make the a 93, and I'll agree. BTW, has enyone actually seen a 93? I saw one on ebay once. Ran the vin and it was a real 93. I wonder if the 93 MKIII came out in Toyota's new electric blue that they made for the debue of the MKIV.... that on charcole grey interior would clearly be the hottest supra you could buy. I'd take one over a MKIV any day :D Actaully.... that's almost exactly what my car will look like in a month ;)

[OneWingedAngel]

I'm not buying into the 93 MKIII thing till I see one with my own eyes, or really good proof.

[MattOneDime]

http://www.students.tut.fi/~kalalaht/geo/vehicles/Supra_MKIII.html

http://www.toyota-supra.de/ma70_1.htm

Theres a couple sites that refer to them... I'll try to find more. There are NO 93 MKIII's in the states.. only in Japan, Europe, & Australia from what I understand.. And naturally they are all made in 1992 and sold as 1993 models.

[OneWingedAngel]

Ah, I see. So they were still made in 92 and sold as 93. Usually about half of them are made the year before and the other half on the same year. Like my 88 is made in Feb 88. Thats still crazy though.

[paddlenbike]

I kinda prefer the front bumper and the rear spoiler on pre-89s (they look more aggressive) but I would trade that any day for the revised suspension and updated interior of the post-89s. I added '91 wheels and climate control to mine to make it look a little better.

Personally my choice would be a white 1992 MKIII 5-speed turbo with the gray cloth interior and the sliding sunroof. mk3supraturbo (Matt) has this exact car except the blue interior and I LOVE it!

[rhilberg]

What more can I say: I drive to and from work in pure Supra ambrosia!

[Shawndude]

Originally posted by OneWingedAngel
Like my 88 is made in Feb 88. Thats still crazy though.

Blah, my 88 was made in August of 87. Dang these cars are getting old! :)

[ma71supraturbo]

my 87 was made in june of 87. If it was made 1 month later it would have been an 88 with that nifty third brake light ;)

[Jeff Lange]

April 88 here :).

The front end on the pre-89 = best, the lights in the rear on pre-89 = best, the spoiler on the 89+ = best.

As for interior, the 92 Charcoal is the best IMO, but I don't like 4-spoke steering wheels... so I'd want one without airbags.

Does anyone have pictures of the rear suspension from different years? I'd be curious to know all the differences, and maybe make sure to look for a newer one when I get a donor vehicle.

[MKlllSupra]

Shit...how about 87-92...! There all great to me! :)

[Boosted Supra]

I'd say 92T fully loaded, but since I own an 89, I'd favor 89T's, lol.

[BoostinMkIII]

Well I would have to say by FAR th 92 is the best it had the best options and the best looking inside it was the only year that had the Black leather and it had the nice rims and it was the best year they ever made and they did not make a lot of them so I think it would be the best car if you ahd to get one ...or should I say FIND ONE

[Jeff Lange]

Originally posted by BoostinMkIII
Well I would have to say by FAR th 92 is the best it had the best options and the best looking inside it was the only year that had the Black leather and it had the nice rims and it was the best year they ever made and they did not make a lot of them so I think it would be the best car if you ahd to get one ...or should I say FIND ONE Not black... shadow grey ;)

[Phoenix Inferno]

Ive owned two 89's and i love em! i'll only stick with 89's :D

[Shawndude]

Yummy, stock 92 black on "black" (dark gray):

http://www.buysell.com/webphoto/1785/1785130228.jpg

[Grizzly_GER]

I owned all kind of Supras started with early ´87 NA without cat´s and climate control. Nice car, but verry old.
I went on with a 5/89 facelift. Verry nice, but not the nice interior.
Best point for a early facelift modell is the 6M crank it´s a big bunch lighter than the 7M crank used in the later 90/91+ engines.
An other point for the 90+ is a 16 cm front speaker system ...
My "car of the moment" is a 5/93 buid in 10/92 (as VIN says).
With the fine dark, verry dark, gray interior.
The car is down for a full rebuild, includes new paint.
I will go with an engine rebuild with a 6M crank and an other 4-5 kg enlightment at the crank. Fidanza and RPS Stage 3 are allready there too :D

Here´s a pic ...

http://supra.subnet33.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=41876

Grizzly

[osofast7m]

I think you should stick with the 88, Targa Top, 5 speed turbo, because it's easy to get, weighs less than the 89+ and the difference in handling capabilities is irelivant because chances are your gonna change your suspension and put in aftermarket pieces anyhow.

[MK3Brent]

I got it... the 89' body lines... with a 91-newer paint job ;) ;)

[Whatawookie]

I like the 89 steering wheel best, but I do like the 86.5-88 nose better. Did anyone else notice the 89-92 NAs being considerably slower than the 86.5-88s? Might just be the ones I drove, but the older ones seemed to have more highend. I guess most of us are only concerned with the turbos, though... ;) BTW, I have one of the last 89's made, #136406 :)


Also, is it true the 92's had the keyless/alarm upgrade from the factory? From what I understood, that was an addon that could be added to any 89-92 (when it was still available :( ), but didn't come from the factory on any of them.

[Kracin]

Originally posted by osofast7m
I think you should stick with the 88, Targa Top, 5 speed turbo, because it's easy to get, weighs less than the 89+ and the difference in handling capabilities is irelivant because chances are your gonna change your suspension and put in aftermarket pieces anyhow.

hell ya, 88 is THE best IMO...well... because thats what i have haha, and they seem to look a hellova lot better than the later models , i like not having the ends of my spoiler connected to the car, and the front end looks better also. AND i have a super monitor in my 88 ;) so na na nana na

[aweber]

Of course I am partial to the 92 as well, like the color keyed moldings, like the black interior, like the factory cd player, etc...

http://www.webercomputing.net/~aweber/images/mysupra/MySupra6.jpg

[ZaZZn]

Love the black leather in 92's

However I beat all you youngins....

DEC 86 my car was made.

[Larry_A]

Originally posted by Shawndude
Blah, my 88 was made in August of 87. Dang these cars are getting old! :)
My '87 was built in July of 1986. Now you know why I call it OldSchool...it's over 17 years old. It'll be a classic in no time, LOL.

[paddlenbike]

Wow...old thread revived. My opinion has changed since I last posted in this thread. I'm thinking a 1988 5-speed turbo hardtop would be the car to have. I think that particular model weighs around 300-350 pounds less than a 91-92 targa. That weight difference makes a huge difference in performance.

[Whatawookie]

Just curious where these weight figures are coming from. I've not seen anything to show more than about a 100lb difference between models of turbo cars. Are these just assumptions?

[Kracin]

Originally posted by Larry_A
My '87 was built in July of 1986. Now you know why I call it OldSchool...it's over 17 years old. It'll be a classic in no time, LOL.


ya seriously.... so when does a car get to be considered a classic, or rather, when do all of us get to shine up the cars, and park them in the garage while driving a station wagon around the rest of our cenile lives.

[Jeff Lange]

Originally posted by aweber
Of course I am partial to the 92 as well, like the color keyed moldings, like the black interior, like the factory cd player, etc...

http://www.webercomputing.net/~aweber/images/mysupra/MySupra6.jpg

That's one of the reasons I think I like my colour so much, because the mouldings fit in so nicely.

[FredTurbo]

88 rulz!!.....humm not the first time I say that lol

I just like the front bumper alot, less weight, the steering is nice the climate control too(just need one with no flaking).

I just like the later tailights.

[Jeff Lange]

It seems everyone has a different opinion of the best year.

If I was going to build one again, I'd want to go 92 with the 88 front end.

But I really do like the 88 rear lights... The red all the way across just doesn't look right to me.

[Wreckless]

My silver/grey '87T hardtop 5-speed, produced in aug of '86, is probably one of the first Turbo Supras ever made. Heritage baby!

I honestly feel that there's only two ugly things that were ever found on the MK3, and that's the '87 hatch (straight rear wiper and square-ass 3rd brake light) and the Buzzsaws.

I've owned four turbo MK3's so far, and *driven* at least 8. Several 87's and '88s, a couple of '89's and two '91s.
Stock to stock, the '87 and '88's were faster for sure, but the '89+ and in particular the '89T hardtop I drove, had noticeably less ass-squat in a hard corner. I replaced the stock suspension in my '87T hardtop with ST springs and Tok Ill2's, and the problem was cured.

I love seeing 91-92's for thier rarity, but even a peeling burg '88T hauling ass down the road will put a grin on my face :D

BTW: does anyone know of a VIN decode chart so we can pinpoint production dates or which number it was?

[FredTurbo]

here's a link to some chassis code should help a bit.
http://www.tigersport.freeserve.co.uk/chassis.htm

BTW mine was made in january of 88.:D

[Prince S.A]

u have not enjoy a supra unless u r 17 yrs and own a 91 with 80000 miles (with the power sun roof )
yeah def 91

[jong]

Come on! Its definately the 1986.5 SUPRA! My reason you ask? simple. If it hadn't been for the 1986.5 then would there really be all the other supras? honestly. If the 86.5 hand't come out then they wouldn't have realized what a great car the supra was. if the 86.5 wasn't so awesome, they wouldn't have made the turbo model to make it better. IF THE 86.5 wasn't around then the most popular year for the supra would be something like the 87 or the 88... and who would want that? I think my reasons are completely backed up by the number of supras bought in 86.5, oh ya... well above any other supra year. bingo. and want to know what else? the 86.5 is NON-TURBO, which means, that Toyota practically was begging consumers to do the hard work and put a turbo on there. I don't know about the rest of you, but i enjoy having to work to make my car cooler. Toyota was so smart that they didn't put TEMS on it either. I guess they figured, "why scare away possible consumers with another flashy feature that really does nothing?" Just one more reason why the 86.5 is a true pure-bred supra. Toyota also purposely made hte 86.5 without a targa-top. just because they knew that cool people would buy this car. and cool people don't NEED the top down, cause everyone knows they're just as cool without one. Toyota, being the super-genious that it is, also made the 86.5 with an incredible ride height. so not only can you dominate you ricer enemies, you can also look down on them from 10 feet up. If these reasons aren't good enough for you to love the 86.5 over any other car, than remember this... you don't have one, and i do. :rockon: j/k :D

[black92t]

IM GOING WITH THE 1992 BLACK ON BLACK WITH TURBO, FIVE SPEED, AND SUNROOF. ITS MY RIDE SO I AM PARTIAL

[hawkeye]

Originally posted by Kracin
ya seriously.... so when does a car get to be considered a classic, or rather, when do all of us get to shine up the cars, and park them in the garage while driving a station wagon around the rest of our cenile lives.

According to the MVA (maryland)... most other states should be similar:

A vehicle qualifies for Historic tags if:

* The vehicle is 25 calendar years or older and has not been substantially altered, remodeled, or remanufactured from its original construction, or
* The vehicle is between 20 and 24 model years old and is a model, of which the manufacturer produced 1,000 or fewer models for that year, as verified by the manufacturer (supporting documentation required). The vehicle has not been substantially altered, remodeled or remanufactured from its original construction, or
* The vehicle is between 20 and 24 model years old and is a make that the manufacturer no longer produces, as verified by the manufacturer (supporting documentation required). It is not substantially altered, remodeled or remanufactured from it original construction.

A vehicle qualifies for Street Rod tags if:

*The vehicle is 25 years old or older and has been substantially altered from the manufacturer's original design.

[Whatawookie]

You could get TEMS on the 86.5. It just wasn't as common on the NA as the turbo.

[Howie]

Originally posted by Madghost
the 87, cuz theyre cheaper so u can allocate more cash for mods.

YEAH:D

[amorak]

Originally posted by jong
Come on! Its definately the 1986.5 SUPRA! My reason you ask? simple. If it hadn't been for the 1986.5 then would there really be all the other supras? honestly. If the 86.5 hand't come out then they wouldn't have realized what a great car the supra was. if the 86.5 wasn't so awesome, they wouldn't have made the turbo model to make it better. IF THE 86.5 wasn't around then the most popular year for the supra would be something like the 87 or the 88... and who would want that? I think my reasons are completely backed up by the number of supras bought in 86.5, oh ya... well above any other supra year. bingo. and want to know what else? the 86.5 is NON-TURBO, which means, that Toyota practically was begging consumers to do the hard work and put a turbo on there. I don't know about the rest of you, but i enjoy having to work to make my car cooler. Toyota was so smart that they didn't put TEMS on it either. I guess they figured, "why scare away possible consumers with another flashy feature that really does nothing?" Just one more reason why the 86.5 is a true pure-bred supra. Toyota also purposely made hte 86.5 without a targa-top. just because they knew that cool people would buy this car. and cool people don't NEED the top down, cause everyone knows they're just as cool without one. Toyota, being the super-genious that it is, also made the 86.5 with an incredible ride height. so not only can you dominate you ricer enemies, you can also look down on them from 10 feet up. If these reasons aren't good enough for you to love the 86.5 over any other car, than remember this... you don't have one, and i do. :rockon: j/k :D


It does seem like hard work, putting a turbo on an NA so that it runs like sh*t and dynos @ less RWHP then a stock NA :rolleyes:

Brysta Turbo for life!

[jong]

really 86.5 had TEMS?... oh news to me. lol...

[Whatawookie]

Yup. You could also get the targa. The car in the 86 TV commercial and magazine ads has a sport roof and TEMS.

[Justin]

Does anyone know of a good link that has all the years from 86.5 to 93 that details all of the differences? I've seen a few around, but they had a few things missing... Anyone?


_ Justin

[Whatawookie]

I've yet to find one that didn't have a few errors. We should really get as many heads together as possible and compile one.

[jong]

:grenade"

[Jeff Lange]

Originally posted by Whatawookie
I've yet to find one that didn't have a few errors. We should really get as many heads together as possible and compile one.

I spent a while writing about all the changes, and lost it all with hard drive failure... :mad::mad:

[ma71supraturbo]

<B><H2>1986.5 - 1992: <BR>
Supra Separates from the Celica line.</H2>
</B><p>

<IMG ALIGN=Left SRC="http://members.igateway.net/~pscott/images/ma70CutOutb.jpg" ALT="MKIII cut-away">
In mid-year 1986 the all-new MKIII was introduced, officially separating the Supra from the newly front-wheel drive Celica. The 86.5 Supra had a stroked version of the 5M-GE block (thanks to the crankshaft from the JDM MKII's 6M-GE). However, the head was all-new, helping the 3-liter, 24-valve DOHC inline six 7M-GE produce 200 horsepower and 185 lb-ft of torque. A notable new feature was the "Intake Air Control" system which tuned the air-tract length for different engine speeds through a separate valve downstream of the throttle valve. Thanks to the IAC, at least 80% of the 185 lb-ft of torque was on hand from 1200 to 6400 rpm. That power was passed through a standard 5-speed transmission, although those with lazy left feet could opt for the electronically controlled 4-speed automatic. 16X7" alloy wheels shod in 225/50VR16 tires were suspended on all four corners by double-wishbone independent suspension. "Toyota Electronically Modulated Suspension" (TEMS) was also available in an optional sports package with along with a limited slip differential. This system allowed the driver to select between "normal" (soft) and "sport"(medium) modes. The TEMS computer would automatically set the shocks to medium at freeway speeds, and would go firm under hard braking, acceleration, or sharp steering imputs. The Supra recieved a full assortment of gauges including an 8000rpm tach, speedometer, temperature, oil pressure, and voltage along with warning lights for coolant level, brake pressure/parking brake, and engine trouble codes.<p>

On the comfort and convenience side, the automatic climate control allowed the driver to set the degrees and allow the system to decide on the fan speed and temperature. A tilting and telescoping steering wheel, and the optional 8-way adjustable power driver's seat allowed anyone to fit like a glove in the Supra's cockpit. Cruise control, power windows, and door locks were were additional ammenities, along with a first-rate stereo. For those who faced a rough winter, the power mirrors had a built in defroster, and the headlight sprayers allowed clean lights at the press of a button. If that wasn't enough, a supermonitor was available to calculate fuel mileage or view diagnostic codes.<P>

In 1987 the Supra Turbo is introduced positioning the Supra as a high-performance GT. While the previous version of the Supra competed head-on with Mustangs and Camaros, the new Turbo model placed the Supra in direct comparison with the venerable Z-car, RX-7 Turbo II, and even the Corvette. The new engine for 1987 featured a turbocharged version of the 7M-GE engine appropriately labeled the 7M-GTE. This intercooled 6-cylinder engine produced 232 horsepower: 32 more than the normally aspirated (NA) version. Continuing as a showcase of technology the new Turbo model offers anti-lock brakes (ABS) for the first time.
<HR>

<A NAME="sales"></A>
<H2>1986.5-1992: Sales/Recall/Price Data</H2>
<P>
<TABLE BORDER CELLSPACING=2 CELLPADDING=1>
<TR align=center>
<TD><B>Year</B>
<TD><B>1986.5</B>
<TD><B>1987</B>
<TD><B>1988</B>
<TD><B>1989</B>
<TD><B>1990</B>
<TD><B>1991</B>
<TD><B>1992</B>
<TR>
<TD><B>U.S. Sales</B>
<TD>33,283
<TD>29,907
<TD>19,596
<TD>14,544
<TD>6,419
<TD>3,623
<TD>1,193
<TR>
<TD><B>Recalls</B>
<TD>None
<TD>None
<TD>None
<TD>None
<TD>None
<TD>None
<TD>None
<TR>
<TD><B>Original List</B>
<TD>$17,990
<TD>$19,990,<BR>
$22,260 (turbo)
<TD>$21,290<BR>
$23,760 (turbo)
<TD>$22,360<BR>
$24,700 (turbo)
<TD>$22,860<BR>
$25,200 (turbo)
<TD>$23,280<BR>
$27,290 (turbo)
<TD>$25,280<BR>
$28,750 (turbo)
</TABLE>
<BR>
<HR><P>

<A NAME="changes"></A><P>

<H2>NOTING THE CHANGES</H2>
<HR>
<P>
<B>1986.5: </B> Supra model is newly introduced as a free standing model no longer associated with the Celica. Originally scheduled for a 1986 debut, production delays cause the model to be introduced mid year (hence the 1986.5 designation). Power for the all new Supra is from a 200 hp, 3.0 liter DOHC inline six cylnder. Notable features include an electronically controlled independent suspension going by the moniker, Toyota Electronic Modulated Suspension (TEMS), and a removable Sport-Roof panel.
<P>
<B>1987:</B> First Supra turbo model is introduced. The intercooled, turbocharged engine boosts hp to 230 and torque to 246 ft-lbs. Other unique features of the turbo are an engine oil cooler and integrated rear spoiler. The sports package, which is standard on the turbo and optional on the base model, offers limited slip differential (LSD), TEMS, and headlamp washers. New Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) available as an option on all models.
<P>
<B>1988:</B> Models carried over from 1987 with only minor changes. The third brake light becomes trapezoidal instead of square on the turbo's spoiler. Base interior changed from vinyl to cloth. Minor engine modifications to improve quietness. Beige/Brown two-tone paint option is dropped.<P>

<B>1989:</B> A freshened exterior appears with a new grille, air dam, taillights, and rear spoiler. Changes to the interior include a new steering wheel, new climate control panel, and an additional 2 speakers. The 7M-GTE's power is upped to 232 hp, while torque increased from 246 to 254 lb-ft with minor changes to the wastegate and ECU. Speed sensitive power steering added. Rear suspension rates increased.
<P>
<B>1990:</B> Driver's side airbag made standard (which meant a new steering wheel was needed). The cruise control moved back to a steering wheel mounted stalk. Fluid filled engine mounts added for smoothness, along with a better balanced (but heavier) new crankshaft (all previous crankshafts were taken directly from the 6M, but this new generation of crankshaft was labeled 7m). Minor casting changes to the head have also been noted. Power steering boost trimmed for more feel at high speed.
<P>
<B>1991:</B> New five-spoke wheels with Goodyear GS-D Z-rated tires are made standard. ABS standard on turbo models. Outer-sliding power sunroof option added; Sport-Roof and pop-up sunroof still offered.
<P>
<B>1992:</B> Last year of the third generation. Automatic transmission shift points revised. A ten-speaker sound system added as an option with the ETR/Cassette/CD system. Two new colors added; Teal Metallic and Garnet Pearl (White Pearl, Silvermist Metallic and Burgandy Pearl are dropped). This is the only year charcol gray interior was offered (black on black)
<P><A NAME="perform"></A>

[FredTurbo]

1989: A freshened exterior appears with a new grille, air dam, taillights, and rear spoiler. Changes to the interior include a new steering wheel, new climate control panel, and an additional 2 speakers. The 7M-GTE's power is upped to 232 hp, while torque increased from 246 to 254 lb-ft with minor changes to the wastegate and ECU. Speed sensitive power steering added. Rear suspension rates increased. Cruise control moved to steering wheel spokes.

In my 88 the cruise control is on my wheel spoke too...

[adam pecush]

Originally posted by Shawndude
Ignoring looks of the car, I would suggest 89+ Supra.

The main benefits are the revised rear suspension, and a progressive speed sensitive power steering.

These two items are very difficult to change over to the pre 89 cars, unless you have an entire donor vehicle.

The rest is easily swappable without much hassle.
how hard exactly is this to do? im most likely doing a body swap from my 89 to an 88 body, and if possible il change over the rear end setup since it is apparently better....or am i better off leaving things the way they are on the 88?

adam

[Whatawookie]

Originally posted by FredTurbo
In my 88 the cruise control is on my wheel spoke too...

86.5-88 all have cruise buttons on the steering wheel, albeit on a different spoke. The only difference was the on the 89's, they moved the cruise on/off switch to the steering wheel, too.

[Larry_A]

Originally posted by Shawndude
Ignoring looks of the car, I would suggest 89+ Supra.

The main benefits are the revised rear suspension, and a progressive speed sensitive power steering.

These two items are very difficult to change over to the pre 89 cars, unless you have an entire donor vehicle.

The rest is easily swappable without much hassle.
The '89+ has always been my favorite car style-wise, but I found that making the '87 more to my liking w/the Bomex kit did the trick. I'm glad I did the Bomex.

Heh, maybe you know something I don't, but I cross-referenced all the part #s for the rear susp in the EPC, & the ones I saw were the same for all years: 8601-8808 & 8808-9305. I heard someone mention different spring rates- well, even those were the same part #s.

The only significant difference I found was in front. The 8808 & up forego the horizontal steering dampener. These were implemented on many Toyota vehicles of the time to reduce steering shimmy on the highway. Sev mid-80s Toyota P/Us were recalled to have them added, as a matter of fact. I've always wondered why it was removed, as I've noticed a friend's '90 does have a slight shimmy- & he bitches about it, too.

Anyway.....
I'm not saying there isn't a difference in the rear, but I'd like to know exactly where, if so. Go look at: http://www.cygnusx1.net like I did & give us some part #s. Since my car is so far apart, & will be more so before it's done, I'd like to see whethr or not the mods I've already done make this all a moot point, or not.

FWIW: Aftr susp mods, my car handled better than a similarly modded '92 I experienced. We even had same size/brand tires, LOL. I'd say his car was upwards of 200lbs more than mine, so that probably had quite an effect.

D^mn keyboard rambling.
Goodnight, & until tomorrow.

[Shawndude]

Ah the rear end differences. I haven't had much luck deciphering the Cygnus online one, but looking at the parts catalog I have at home the following is different in the rear suspension between pre 89 and post 89/90 (going from memory here).

Springs
Shocks
Spring perches
sway bars
subframe
jounce bumpers

I have observed the following changes:

-89+ rear springs are 16% stiffer, and 10 mm lower than before.
-The spring perches have a less flexible design.
-Subframe has the obvious supports in place, and the pre 89 ones do not have the mounting hardware for it there. I'm not sure of any geometry changes as it would be very difficult to measure, but they have been mentioned in magazine articles (whatever that is worth).

The steering rack is entirely different on pre 89 and post 89 PPS units (only on turbo and optional on n/a I think). The speed sensitive steering has a different pump, computer and hydraulic valve to control it all.

I'm assuming the steering dampener was removed, since the computer can firm up the steering on the 89+ and less kick back makes its way into the steering wheel.

I'll scan the part numbers and diagrams when I get home.

Edit:
The alignment specifications are also changed for the rear suspension for pre and post 89 cars, which may suggest some geometry changes were possibly made.

[adam pecush]

shit i forgot about the pps...i wonder if thats gonna be a bitch to change over from the 89 to the 88 body...

adam

[Nocheez]

I think I've got the newest MKIII on the boards, mine being made in July of 92. I got the Teal on charcoal leather interior with a sunroof but it's got an automatic :( the main option i'm missing is heated seats and the 10 speaker stereo system. other than the previous owner switching the wiper-blade arms to '90 style and some window tint, it's bone stock. she's beautiful. girls are always asking for rides.

http://home.neo.rr.com/nocheez/clean1.jpg
http://home.neo.rr.com/nocheez/clean3.jpg

[ma71supraturbo]

I don't know why people complain about the airbag wheel, I love it on my mr2...

[aweber]

Originally posted by Nocheez
[B]I think I've got the newest MKIII on the boards, mine being made in July of 92. I got the Teal on charcoal leather interior with a sunroof but it's got an automatic :( the main option i'm missing is heated seats and the 10 speaker stereo system. other than the previous owner switching the wiper-blade arms to '90 style and some window tint, it's bone stock. she's beautiful. girls are always asking for rides.


Mines July of 92 as well!! :)

[Jeff Lange]

Originally posted by ma71supraturbo
I don't know why people complain about the airbag wheel, I love it on my mr2...

It's not BAD... but I just never really cared for 4-spoke steering wheels. (That includes momo ones ;))

[Whatawookie]

Originally posted by ma71supraturbo
I don't know why people complain about the airbag wheel, I love it on my mr2...

It's not bad, but it's a little bulky. I like the safety benefits considerably more after what happened to my brother's S14, though.

[Starchild]

Airbag? lol i don't even have airbag or power steering or even air conditioning on my mr2 :)

Gladly, by today, i may findout if a mk3 supra owner is willing to trade his 88 or 89 hardtop 5 speed turbo for my mr2 straight up. Wow, what an offer that i cannot resist. I may join the Supra community soon ;)

[Shawndude]

I'll scan the part numbers and diagrams when I get home.
Blah, the page I was going to scan has a big corner of it missing, but I have these two scans from before:

http://members.shaw.ca/shawndude/images/arms0001.JPG

http://members.shaw.ca/shawndude/images/rear0001.JPG

The rear subframe has the same part number for all the years in my catalog, but obviously there were changes. :scratch:

[Larry_A]

Hello Shawn,
Thnx for the follow-thru.

Hmmm, bumpstops, absorber mounts, & rear anti-sway bar are the differences I see in your listing. The coil springs & even shocks look to be the same. And since anti-sway bars are part of nearly every susp buildup, we're basically looking at bumpstops, & absorber mounts as the remaining differences. Those don't appear to be Earth-shattering component changes.

LMK if you come up w/something else, but right now, I still don't see compelling differences between old/new.

Take care.

[Shawndude]

Hi Larry.

The shocks and springs have "order by application" beside them (with an incomplete part number listed). They are all different between years and models (and even side to side!).

I remember for the shocks there were different listing for years, and the 89 shocks were about twice as expensive as some of the others. It is in the "missing corner" (#8 shocks) I don't have scanned. I'll try to find it.

Looking at Cygnus:

There are 9 different shock models:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/EPC/MKIII_NATO/parts/48530.html

And 9 different springs:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/EPC/MKIII_NATO/parts/48231.html

Not sure where we're going with this though. :)

[51Cards]

The most comprehensive list DrJ and I could come up with of changes over the years...

http://www.mkiiitech.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27

Edit: Larry, I have pictures of the 87/88 rear subframe and the 89.5+ rearsubframe so you can see the extra bracing added if you're interested.

[Larry_A]

Originally posted by Shawndude
.....Not sure where we're going*** with this though. :)
Hello Shawn,
I hear ya, man! I forgot that Mike B [Cygnus] had mapped the jpegs.

Anyway, I see where the shocks & springs are different now, but for me, those still signify items that were on my susp mod list. I still see only the bumpstops, & upper shock mounts on the list for my '87 Supra.

***Thnx to you, we've arrived...essentially, an earlier model Supra with aftermarket susp mods, should handle equally as well as the later models with the same mods. This conclusion, w/all due respect to PPS.

How's that?
;)

[Jeff Lange]

Originally posted by 51Cards
Larry, I have pictures of the 87/88 rear subframe and the 89.5+ rearsubframe so you can see the extra bracing added if you're interested.

I'd be interested in seeing that.

[Shawndude]

Originally posted by Larry_A
***Thnx to you, we've arrived...essentially, an earlier model Supra with aftermarket susp mods, should handle equally as well as the later models with the same mods. This conclusion, w/all due respect to PPS.

How's that?
;)

I'd agree with that. The slight rear subframe geometry change is pure speculation at this point, and everything else usually gets changed anyway, or is worn out to begin with.

Worn out components on our 11+ year old cars are much more significant than any small changes made by Toyota.


I'd be interested in seeing that.
51 Cards picture of the 89+ subframe:
http://www.autosoftsys.com/supra/pics/torsbot.jpg

Extra bars on subframe circled (large image): ftp://halfcut2@24.112.198.24/ExtraBars.jpg

[thirdopticaltool]

89+

[MrBigShot]

I might be getting a 86.5 . They had no Turbos ? I want a Turbo !! If I do a engine swap . Well i have to get a different Ecu ? Yea I'm a newbie :scratch: What if I just turbo the motor thats in there ?, oh and Is it hard to mount an Intercooler for this car also? So many ? 's so little time :drool:

[boostjunkie89]

yeah you are posting in the wrong place... read the faq section



89 i think is the best... better exterior styling and no airbags. i hate airbags and 4 spoke steering wheels.

[91SupraTurbo]

im in love with my 91T red with grey leather interior, targa, tems, everything you can imagine can with my supra except a cd player... which i have now

[SupraMkiii24]

I love my 90T Supra. All options other than Leather, which is fine I like cloth. Unless I were to get something like Katskins perferated leather, I just didn't like sweating so much with my other supra's leather seats. yuck**

[MPF_Supra]

92 Supra Turbo :drool:

best of everything. Most option and even the keyless entry WooT.

[thirdopticaltool]

Keyless entry is the ish.

i need it, and it'll take about $250 to get it. hmmmmm.

[haltechmk3]

Im pulling for the 89t hardtop. No extra bracings, lighter.
http://home.comcast.net/~toomanysupras/Kriss_362whp_supra.jpg

Kris Weldy
http://home.comcast.net/~volvo4life/Index.html

[GotToyota?]

Well.. about the only thing I noticed was on the 87 & 88 (stock) the front end sat higher than the rear.. this led to bad front tire lift in hard corners.. the rear end would squat under accelleration and you would feel the steering breaking loose.. (Many call this understeer.. hehe).. On my 91 (which I have now). .the front end (with stock springs) sat IMO an inch lower and the rear end does not squat nearly as much. Another thing I noticed is that the pre 89's are more prone to wheel hop at the track.. These things could be just a matter of how the car was abused by its previous owner.. but there is for sure a difference in ride and cornering ablilty when I compare the 87/88 to my 91. I know I'll get flamed by the pre 89 guys, but I think the newer ones handle a little better.
I have an 89, and my front seems to sit higher. :dunno: But I drove an 87 the other day with TEMS, and it handled alot better, but then again, that car had 140k miles and TEMS, mine has 254k and no TEMS. :urowned: So you might not be right, I think it all depends on mileage, and wear.

-Matt

[bassjunkiens5]

just a quick question on the rear suspension. i have/had a 91 t , totalled :( , and just recently got an 88. its rough lol. but i was wanting to swap everything over, ps, rear diff, 5 speed etc. how hard would it be to swap the front and rear sub frames? for sus purposes

[JDMmk3]

Yeah, Any late model 89+ Supra Mk3 would be Great because it'll be alot easier to do a JZ Series engine swap....hehe:)

[Crash Override]

86.5 Auto. Brown/Tan package FTW! :kekegay:

[jugodegolf]

89 2jzgte or 92 turbo,targa,5speed. I just can't decide which one to drive each day.

I would like to see in person a 93 though.

[MA70 Ed]

:deadhorse
i'd say 89+

[NashMan]

91 and 92 cause they ride the best one reson reinfocred rear sub frame and thicker stock sway bars there solid instead of hallow
and the pps was all so imporover over 89 and the 90 unit

and the moon roof just freaking rocks

[JCR2FAST4U]

89 is the best simpily because it began the new look of the supras and it still had the targa top which to me is the supras trade mark targa tops rock!!!!!

[phatbimmer]

I has 87 w/ moonroof and I like the 87 style better than any other :D:D

87 ftw!

[OneJoeZee]

I saw a scientific study done in a scholarly journal that showed 92 was the best year.

[jugodegolf]

I saw a scientific study done in a scholarly journal that showed 92 was the best year.


Studies are in! 92 shadow grey/garnet red pearl/targa/5speed wins over black hardtop by a hair.:1poke:

Sorry Joe

[IJ.]

86.5! beware imitations ;)

[Supra_brothers]

88 targa FTMFW

88 mph!

[dibsen]

After reading this thred I am slightly bumed that the 1990 MkIII I am looking at seems to be bottom of the stack. Guess thats why it's cheep. I am not completely discouraged just yet. I do hate the marron red interior though.

[Koenigturbo]

Whats the difference between a ma 70 and a ma71?

[spdu4ea]

Whats the difference between a ma 70 and a ma71?

ma70 = 7mge (3.0L non turbo)

ma71 = 7mgte (3.0L turbo)

jza70 = 1jzgte (2.5L twinturbo)

ga70 = 1ggte (2.0L twinturbo)

The chassis are all the same -- A70

[Koenigturbo]

Thank you very much!!! I've been trying hard to get a qaurter panel, but I've hesitated for many reason's, I've been told that turbo/non turbo are different, targa and hard top are different, I was told 86 thru 88 are different, than 89 thru 93 are different, but the skins the same. I have the targa so I have all the bracing anyway.

So thanks for your help!

[spdu4ea]

Thank you very much!!! I've been trying hard to get a qaurter panel, but I've hesitated for many reason's, I've been told that turbo/non turbo are different, targa and hard top are different, I was told 86 thru 88 are different, than 89 thru 93 are different, but the skins the same. I have the targa so I have all the bracing anyway.

So thanks for your help!

If you are not in the US, some MK3's were "narrowbody" -- so they will have different fenders and 1/4 panels. I believe the GA70 and possibly some MA70s were narrowbody, but am not certain.

http://www.supra.co.nz/bodydiff/narrowbody.jpg

Car on left is a "widebody" -- and if you're in the US, this is what you have. The car on the right is the narrowbody...

targas/hardtops should not make any difference for those body panels.

[Koenigturbo]

If you are not in the US, some MK3's were "narrowbody" -- so they will have different fenders and 1/4 panels. I believe the GA70 and possibly some MA70s were narrowbody, but am not certain.

http://www.supra.co.nz/bodydiff/narrowbody.jpg

Car on left is a "widebody" -- and if you're in the US, this is what you have. The car on the right is the narrowbody...

targas/hardtops should not make any difference for those body panels.

Thank you!! This a tremenous help, finding an answer here is faster than racking my brains out trying to figure things out my my self, I should have asked sooner. according to you a hard top panel should be o.k. with my targa top.

Those pictures really help, wow a difference.

[fridaygo]

89 white package with burgandy interior

[avcc11]

i have a grey 91 mk3 7mgte, sliding moon roof, auto, black leather, is that a rare one ?????? i have always wondered

[topguncam3888]

1992 /thread

[teamnuegen]

i love my 90 the only thing i dont like is the wheels as mentioned before the saw blades are a pain in the neck to clean, and are IMO alittle ugly

[USPtwins]

dont hate on the sawblades!!! lol but definately the 89 ma71t

[Ma70Tech]

1992 teal turbo targa with dark grey (almost black) leather interior and 5 speed.

Calling Bishop to this thread!

Agreed. I have a '92 Teal Sunroof, Shadow gray leather 5-speed. parted it out though because no one wanted to buy it as a whole..

[supraracer01]

ma70 = 7mge (3.0L non turbo)

ma71 = 7mgte (3.0L turbo)

jza70 = 1jzgte (2.5L twinturbo)

ga70 = 1ggte (2.0L twinturbo)

The chassis are all the same -- A70

this isnt exactly right i mean its right, but not.. toyota under-anticipated the popularity and demand for the turbo model, they frankly ran out of ma71 chassis, so there are a ton of ma70 factory turbo cars out on the road, i should know i own one...

[JZA80RR]

this isnt exactly right i mean its right,TOYOTA ran out of ma71 chassis, so there are a ton of ma70 factory turbo cars out on the road, i should know i own one...


me to :)

[BorHor]

The best year for a MK3 is the year it actually runs.

[midwestbmx]

87 ma71 cuz it has strong powertrain when headgasket is properly torqued to 75 plus the wing is way cooler just upgrade rims innercooler and 3 inch exhaust and ur doing high 13s

[Jeff Lange]

this isnt exactly right i mean its right, but not.. toyota under-anticipated the popularity and demand for the turbo model, they frankly ran out of ma71 chassis, so there are a ton of ma70 factory turbo cars out on the road, i should know i own one...

No.

All 7M-equipped A70's are MA70.

There is no such chassis as the MA71.

Kill that rumour, never say that again.

GA70 = 1G-E, 1G-FE, 1G-GE or 1G-GTE
MA70 = 7M-GE or 7M-GTE
JZA70 = 1JZ-GTE


Jeff

[DegreE]

87 ma71 cuz it has strong powertrain when headgasket is properly torqued to 75 plus the wing is way cooler just upgrade rims innercooler and 3 inch exhaust and ur doing high 13s

wow.

So the 87 Supra is the best of all MKIII's?

[adidas00]

lol....I've always wonder were people get the "MA71" from....

[Hitman]

lol....I've always wonder were people get the "MA71" from....

I've got a JDM MA74, I run high 6's in 1/4 mile.

[fridaygo]

1990

[supralips87]

i just bought a 91 supra white package with TEMS and sunroof for 650
great buy?

[91T breezen']

i just bought a 91 supra white package with TEMS and sunroof for 650
great buy?

It's got to be hot then! Or, it belonged to a tweaker in desperate need of a fix!
Yes that is good, especially for the best year for the MkIII!:agreed::worthless

[NashMan]

86.5 or 89 or 92 oh yae and the turbo a


thous will be the only ones that will be worth some thing in the next 20 years

[Suprarich]

1993 is best. Would love to import one.

[garebear]

88 Hard top FTW all the way, Mine actually had the sliding sunroof

[GangstaTurbo]

I was just on craigslist and ran across a 92 teal turbo. that is one sexy ass color and i wish i had 3800 in hand at the moment because i would get it.

[Heath]

Just got a 1987 N/A,hardtop, 5spd with grey interior (except dash is redone in black/red stitching.) ;)

[wangan91]

lol....I've always wonder were people get the "MA71" from....

The Vin plate on 91-92’s maybe?

My vin is Jt2MA71xxxxxxxxxx so i own a MA71.

[871JZ]

No.

All 7M-equipped A70's are MA70.

There is no such chassis as the MA71.

Kill that rumour, never say that again.

GA70 = 1G-E, 1G-FE, 1G-GE or 1G-GTE
MA70 = 7M-GE or 7M-GTE
JZA70 = 1JZ-GTE


Jeff


The Vin plate on 91-92’s maybe?

My vin is Jt2MA71xxxxxxxxxx so i own a MA71.

I've always wondered about this. It makes me really think hard about it, because Jeff Lange seriously know's his shit when it comes to Toyota. I'll shoot him a quick PM, and post his reply here. That'll clear it up for us....

[871JZ]

Just sent Jeff Lange a PM regarding this. I'll post his reply once he responds....

[kneedragger85]

I've always wondered about this. It makes me really think hard about it, because Jeff Lange seriously know's his shit when it comes to Toyota. I'll shoot him a quick PM, and post his reply here. That'll clear it up for us....
I assumed all 7M-equipped MKIII's have the chassis designation of MA70 and the VIN# distinguishes turbo vs. non-turbo.

[wangan91]

The only thing I can think of is the revisions the 91-92 ecu/wiring came with. That along with a few other subframe/exterior/interior revisions might be the reason Toyota made stamped it as an MA71 vs MA70. I don't work for Toyota nor is this a factual statement that I have proof of, it's just a theory/idea of mine solely.

[wangan91]

The vin can let you know what trans/diff you have but not sure on if it tells you if it's turbo or not.

[CheesePhantom]

Just got a 1987 N/A,hardtop, 5spd with grey interior (except dash is redone in black/red stitching.) ;)

...I know that Supra. I worked on that Supra.
Used to belong to Orin, and before that, it used to belong to Adam, and before that, used to belong to some old Asian dude.

It originally had maroon interior, by the way. It was all dyed black, unless the panels were replaced.

[SupraTTR]

The vin can let you know what trans/diff you have but not sure on if it tells you if it's turbo or not.

The VIN will tell if it's Turbo,NA,Targa, etc.

[nightrider760]

my 91 turo shell says MA71 in the VIn

[871JZ]

Well, here's the reply I received from Jeff Lange. Everything in bold is Jeff's reply. See below...


Re: Chassis Code Info...

The VIN isn't the same as the chassis code, the section of the VIN that looks similar to the chassis code is actually what is called a VIS, it's basically a model identifier, it allows you to break down options that a vehicle came with, like which engine and body style. The actual chassis code is found in the Toyota model code or chassis number.

JT2MA70J or N = MA70 Targa with 7M-GE
JT2MA70L or M = MA70 Hardtop with 7M-GE
JT2MA71J or N = MA70 Targa with 7M-GTE
JT2MA71L or M = MA70 Hardtop with 7M-GTE

It is similar for a lot of cars, like MR2's, they all have AW11 chassis codes in North America, but the VIN's are AW15 for N/A and AW16 for Supercharged. MK2 Supras are all MA61's, but their VIN is listed as MA67. RWD Corolla coupes are all AE86's, but the VIN will be AE85 for a DX model, AE86 for an SR5 model and AE88 for a GT-S model. The FWD coupes are all AE92's, but the VIN's are AE92 for DX coupe with 4A-F, AE94 for DX coupe with 4A-FE, AE95 for SR5 coupe with 4A-F, AE96 for SR5 coupe with 4A-FE, AE98 for GT-S coupe.

My point with all this, is the the VIN and chassis code are almost never the same for Toyota, and that includes the MA70. They're all MA70's. In fact, in Japan, they never even had the 7M-GE. They only came with the 7M-GTE, ever. Still MA70.

That's why if you look at your data tag, it will have your model code (MA70L-BLMVZA for example) and your chassis number (MA70-0023554 for example), the VIN is something that was generated for the North-American market, due to our regulations, most countries have different types of VIN's. The chassis information will always say MA70.

Jeff


And there we have it. The MA70/MA71 that we see in our VIN number, has nothing to do with the chassis code. Hope this helps, guys!

[wangan91]

Real shit.

[marcmann982]

anything 89+ is the best but id stay 89 for sure gives you the best of both worlds 89 turbo targa top ftw!!! :p