"the" starter problem (should this be a sticky?)

[dgblkbelt]

I'm amazed at how many different posts turned up in an MKIII search for "starter." Tons of them describe the same problem I'm having, but I have a few more specific details.

3 times in 2 weeks and around 20-30 starts, the car has failed to start, not working until returning to it hours later. Observations and symptons:

-there is a noise on the passenger side of the car
-there is a slight clicking in the direction of the ignition/starter
-all the car's accessories come on fine when I try to start
-battery and check engine lights come on
-interior lights do NOT dim when trying to start
-seems to be after the car has sat for a day (running errands, it will start 5-6 times in the span of a few hours, but then not go the first try on the next day)
-stock voltage meter reads ~12 after several unsuccessful starts

Starter/Ignition/Power related issues:
-Alarm stopped working a while ago, and it is really hard to turn the key in the door (locks are in bad conditon). could the factory alarm engine disable be causing this? (Does starter click or engine check light come on when the alarm has disabled the car?)
-There is a big stereo system installed, but is turned down or all the way off and car still won't start
-There is a blitz FATT turbo timer, and after a failed start with check engine light on, it still starts counting down

I need to know what the most likely culprit is, and any other useful tips that will help me and future newbs with this problem. Thanks in advance.

[Interex_87]

By not starting do you mean the engine is cranking and can't start or does the engine not even crank?

I used to have a probem with my car starting when it wanted to. It would crank all day but it wouldn't start. It would be a random times too. The only way to get it started would be to pull it with my truck and have a friend sit in it and pop it in gear. It would start it everytime. But that got tiresome and I really needed to find a cure. In the end it came down to the wiring harness that were causing the intermittent problem. Most likey the CPS wiring but it could have been somthing else. All I know is after replacing my harness I know 100% that my car WILL start!

[Adam W]

Quick test to rule out a wiring fault: (this should be step one IMO)

Look at your starter motor. Ignore the real thick wires carry cranking current which go to it. Look for a slim wire going to a small spade terminal on the starter body. Splice a longer piece of wire into this wire with a scotchlock or similar (only has to be temporary). Next time the car won't start when you turn the key, touch this longer wire to the battery +ve connection. If the starter fires up, then there is a bad connection somewhere between the ignition key and the little spade terminal on the starter (that you just spliced into). If it doesn't fire up, there is a mechanical problem with the starter itself.

[JG_XSBOOST]

Originally posted by Adam Wootten
Quick test to rule out a wiring fault: (this should be step one IMO)

Look at your starter motor. Ignore the real thick wires carry cranking current which go to it. Look for a slim wire going to a small spade terminal on the starter body. Splice a longer piece of wire into this wire with a scotchlock or similar (only has to be temporary). Next time the car won't start when you turn the key, touch this longer wire to the battery +ve connection. If the starter fires up, then there is a bad connection somewhere between the ignition key and the little spade terminal on the starter (that you just spliced into). If it doesn't fire up, there is a mechanical problem with the starter itself.

Good answer. Finally someone else who has noticed the wiring problem. Mine did the same thing. After going through all the other possible sources (battery, .battery cables, starter, ignition relay <the thing you hear clicking on the passenger side>, even replacing a short piece of the wire from the ignition just before the starter, yada yada yada), I finally hooked a wire directly to the starter contact where the ignition switch connected. It worked. I then left the original wire off (covered it) and hooked up a relay connecting the ignition switch, battery and starter. It worked and worked well, until fixed the problem the right way by replacing the wire from the ignition <ECU> while the motor was out. There has got to be some corrosion/gunk running up into that wire coming from the ignition switch(via the ECU). I had notice corrosion on that small connector previously and as I stated above, replaced the end of that wire/connector. The corrosion must extend up into the wiring harness. Idunno.

* No inference is made that the information here is better than information from any other poster *


Jeff G

[dgblkbelt]

Update: I used a wire brush to clean the piece that connects the starter cable to the battery, and the car started. However I also wiggled various cables connected to the ignition and the starter, so I'm not sure which thing fixed it.

At any rate, seems like a temporary fix, and this problem is really common so let's get some more posts.

Dan

[Da Kine Guy]

Yeah, the relay wire down there gets pretty gunked up being so far down in the engine bay and close to the ground.

[jtamulis]

BTW just an update, the main ground and power wires
to the starter and block go weak over time. I have had this
problem on many supras in the past, a simple fix is to replace
the main starter wire (the big one), and add a second, and then
replace the main ground, and add a second, once that's done
a LOT of little "strange" wiring issues comepletely dissapear.

Just so you all know, I've proven this time and time again.
I find a solution, and stick with it. Just like my wastegate
solutions.

Jeff
jtamulis@hotmail.com

[Suprat89]

Your problem is in the stater. If you pull your starter off the car, there is a metal plate with three screws holding it on. Take this plate off, this is where you will find your starter contact points. There is a spring loaded parts that look like a mushroom that has a round copper piece attached to it. Pull this out and your see what shape the contacts are in. If they are worn out go to Toyota and you can buy new contacts and just replace them.
This is your problem.

[JG_XSBOOST]

Originally posted by Suprat89
Your problem is in the stater. If you pull your starter off the car, there is a metal plate with three screws holding it on. Take this plate off, this is where you will find your starter contact points. There is a spring loaded parts that look like a mushroom that has a round copper piece attached to it. Pull this out and your see what shape the contacts are in. If they are worn out go to Toyota and you can buy new contacts and just replace them.
This is your problem.

I had already done this too, plus even replaced the starter and still had problems until I worked around that stupid little wire. It was corroded all to hell.

Jeff G

[dgblkbelt]

Thanks for the info everyone. This weekend I made it to Long Island and back (500 miles round trip) with no problems, but I'm gonna fix it as soon as I can. Still starting almost all the time, and it's a 5-speed so I won't get totally stuck when it quits :)

Keep the tips coming, looks like there are some really good approaches so far.

[joey_daze]

I have the same problem your having dgblkbelt. I have replaced the starter twice, and the same problem persist. I have found a way to start the car when this happens, but you get kind of dirty doing it, and it's a pain in the ass. The next thing I'm going to try to do to solve this issue is changing or testing the starter relay. That is the only thing left I can think of that could be the cause of the problems.

if anyone can figure this out it would be great...

Joey

[drifterma71]

I got this car without a starter its an 88 turbo 5spd. I bought the starter and I plan to install it this weekend. I don’t know what attaches to it though. I need your help. I saw a brown wiring clip coming from the harness, it fits perfect into the clip of the starter. I also saw two cables coming from the same point in the harness as the brown clip . Do these cables go in the stud on the starter?
Also there is another cable coming from the positive on the battery. My dad tells me this goes also in the stud on the starter. Please clarify things for me. I am very confused and I have not seen a MK III around my town in a while so I cant take a look.
Another thing , if the anti-theft stereo system has been activated would the car crank, or do I have to deactivate it before?
Thanks in advance

[supra95se]

I am glad I did a search. I've just bought a 1989 Supra Turbo from my cousin yesterday and when I come home from work today, my car won't start. According to my cousin, he had this starting problem in the past. I guess it's time for me to get dirty. I have a 90 turbo before and didn't have this problem. I think it's just a common problem with the MKIII. I hope I don't have to replace the starter, otherwise it would be suck. :(

[ma71supraturbo]

http://www.supras.com/sogidb/index.php?jumpto=techcenter&tech_jumpto=display_techtip&id=67

[joey_daze]

Ok I have new contacts just replaced the relay... and still the same problem!!!! I'm about to wire it up to a push button. I really dont know that the problem is. since my car is an auto I cant pop it, but I have found a way to start it. I pop off the relay wire and run a wire from the hot side of the starter to the relay hook-up. It works, but when it the engine is hot I lose a little bit of fleash, and I lose some cool points when I'm out with the chick. I really need to get this fixed, and dont think the problem is with the battery cable. My solution to the problem is to make the damn thing a push button start. I'm just going to by pass the rela, and just hook a push button inside the car. I've had it with this problem, and this is the only solution I can come up with. unless anyone else has a new suggestion other than the damn contacts.

Thank you ahead of time...

Joey

[JG_XSBOOST]

Originally posted by joey_daze
Ok I have new contacts just replaced the relay... and still the same problem!!!! I'm about to wire it up to a push button. I really dont know that the problem is. since my car is an auto I cant pop it, but I have found a way to start it. I pop off the relay wire and run a wire from the hot side of the starter to the relay hook-up. It works, but when it the engine is hot I lose a little bit of fleash, and I lose some cool points when I'm out with the chick. I really need to get this fixed, and dont think the problem is with the battery cable. My solution to the problem is to make the damn thing a push button start. I'm just going to by pass the rela, and just hook a push button inside the car. I've had it with this problem, and this is the only solution I can come up with. unless anyone else has a new suggestion other than the damn contacts.

Thank you ahead of time...

Joey

Read my post above.

JG

[Dominic]

up

[Pearly Whites]

when your diagnosing the starter, always watch the interior lights as your trying to crank the motor over.

slightly dimmed interior lights = normal starter operation

If the interior lights remain bright, then there is a problem in the control circuit like the ignition switch, fuse, relay, solenoid or wiring inbetween.

If the interior lights go out or extremly dim then there is a short or ground inside of the starter and you would need a new starter unit.

if you go to the solenoid on the starter and you touch a jumper wire for battery + to the solenoid terminal:

a. the starter will then turn engine over and your problem is a open control circuit.

b. starter still dosent work, you need to replase starter.

[becauseican]

My car sometimes doesnt want to start after sitting foe a while , but when it is still warm, when I turn the key it just clicks. I have found that if you just keep on clicking it on and off it will eventually start, sometimes it starts on the third try sometimes it takes 30 tries. My friend had the same problems in his mk3, he fixed it by fixing the wiring on his aftermarket alarm system, he also got new ground wires which probably helped too.

[AllanL]

Originally posted by joey_daze
I lose some cool points when I'm out with the chick.
:cool:

Might be a case of needing another relay close by to get full battery power to the starter... unfortunately my MA45 has required the same thing... toyota love to put relays 500miles from the device to be switched with the smallest wire possable :(

Allan

[jong]

Originally posted by dgblkbelt
Update: I used a wire brush to clean the piece that connects the starter cable to the battery, and the car started. However I also wiggled various cables connected to the ignition and the starter, so I'm not sure which thing fixed it.

At any rate, seems like a temporary fix, and this problem is really common so let's get some more posts.

Dan

i've had the SAME exact problems as desribed, and cleaning those wire terminals is the only thing that fixes it.

[Purplexed]

Greetings
THANK YOU for sharing your ideas.
I had the exact same symptoms as described by the original poster.
I have:
Installed a new starter, ignition switch and replaced the negative cable connector-this solved it for 2 weeks.\Then on a hot day this week, it would make a noise at the starter relay in passenger side kick panel(this is normal), had all lights, no dimming on full ignition turn of the key.)
I got a mechanic to get underneath and jump the solonoid.
Today, per this threads instructions:
I went to Kragen auto supply (go to Lowes, its cheaper)
I bought a splicer to tap into the existing 12 gauge wire(they are in the electrical area, make sure its for 12 gauge, is yellow little plastic box approx 1''x1"x1/2" , you place both wires inside the box, press down on metal tab and instant splice, fold over and it locks in place.
electrical tape,
12 guage red wire.

Pull out snap in wire that goes to solonoid on the starter, pull it up so you can access it standing up beside engine compartment,
splice red wire onto the first 3 inches close to the snap in clip. Now run the wire under vacuum brake canister and into the firewall(see rubber plug on firewall)
Now remove plastic coverings under steering wheel, pull out ignition switch. You will look for thick black with white stripe wire. It should lead to the "START 1" terminal on ignition switch.
Tap (splice into that wire) with the red wire and presto , you are in heaven.
Note: make sure you test the correct wire as follows:
Remove wire from starter solonoid for now.
Get volt meeter, make sure you have a GOOD ground to voltmeter and put positive probe on the black/white wire and have someone turn switch with slotted screwdriver, you WILL get 12 volts only when turned all the way.

Note: my mechanic noted that the ignition switch has a START 1 and START 2 terminal . The START 2 terminal is not used, but can be jumped to enlist that to augment the START 1 terminal. This has nothing to do with the problem above, just extra info.
Thank you to several posters who told me to do this. I am just elaborating a little. By the way, make sure you tape all connections well to prevent any oil from getting on them. I also noted that I have a small oil drip that looks like its coming down on my electrical wiring from the intake manifold area. Could be source of poor connections.
IF YOU dont hear from me again, IT WORKED!!!!!
It should!!!
You guys are great.

[dedbrain]

Solenoids can also develop "dead-spots" after a while. Temporary fix can be as simple as hitting it with a hammer.
That's my kind of fixin!

Or you can always just park on a hill. heh

[Madghost]

Great thread, I thought I was ther only one, BTW my Mechanic gave up on finding the phantom start problem. But I'll post if following this stuff fixes it.

[soup]

everyone's been going through this hell. i replaced my contacts and it turned over fine. this morning... click click click and flashign interior lights (never read about that one). and extremely dim interior lights.
sounds like i've got a shitty connection somewhere. but the car starts up when it's jumped....
going to try that ignition rewire anyway.

[dgblkbelt]

wow, my thread just won't die... guess lots of people do have this problem!

for me, it was a solenoid in the starter... whenever my car wouldn't start, if I tapped the starter (not too hard) with a hammer or wrench or something, it would usually start.

[Fryd_Up]

hey heres a question, where the hell is the damn thing at.

[dgblkbelt]

roughly under the intake manifold... search for "annotated engine" and you should find a thread where Bishop generously labled everything under the hood of a MKIII

[werkkrew]

For me, it was a loose battery lead.

Not the main clamp, but the lead that is bolted to the clamp and goes down directly to the starter. Once I cleaned that and made it nice and tight, no problems.

[TRD White Comet]

I'm going through this ordeal right now. My supra has been sitting in my parking lot for a good month and a half. I finally got all the parts to get my car running again (clutch, and found a used turbo in good condition) When I opened the door, the alarm went off, so I close the door, lock everything, and try again. I've done the same thing 6 times and the car will not start.

All interior lights have no signs of dimming, and all of the accesories work. But I noticed some white powder on top of the battery contacts. Any ideas as to what could be causing this...???

[OOBE]

Gosh, I was going to open a new thread but I guess a lot of you have the same problem. My '87 did it last year when it was COLD and I had to hit the starter with a broom stick and a hammer. Now it works perfect. My '88 doesn't want to start...PERIOD. I hear the clicking lower in the passenger side and the lights dim but the car won't start. I'll check that little wire. Gosh, this is depressing. :(

[LVA]

Take a stab at this:
Only recently has the alarm been going off EVERYtime i use my key to open the door. I can only get the car started by push starting it, but then, a few mins. of driving around passes by and the car just dies on me-all emergency lights on the dash come to life and then i need another push to get it started again, and so on.

I've already tried taking disconnecting the battery, but then that just wakes up the guys in the dorms, so that can't be it.

Not having a garage to work in and trying to take car of the problem by taking my door panel off just isn't an option for me right now. So i decided to have the car towed to the dealership.
what a drag :(

[fstlane88]

I'm basically in the same boat as LVA. The last time I drove the which wasn't far due to a still unresolved stalling issue. Anyway, the battery light came on, and that was roughly two weeks ago. So, last night I tried to start to car......nothing happens, lights go dim hear the clicking, even the ding, ding, ding noise made a funny sound, like it almost died out at full turn of the key.

So, I decide that maybe since the car has been sitting for close to two months, I tried charging the battery, and she started!! Three times consectutivley(sp?) today tried to start her, and she started just didn't really sound right. I never had any problems with the starter or don't recall seeing the battery light before the car went into downtime. Prev. owner did say the starter was giving him issues, though.

Does anyone know what the costs could be at a dealer to get the above straightened out, the car's been down for two months, and I can't handle much longer.

[fstlane88]

Update: I'm going to do the SOGI starter contact replacement. Hopefully that takes care of it.

[Panty Raider]

Originally posted by dgblkbelt
roughly under the intake manifold... search for "annotated engine" and you should find a thread where Bishop generously labled everything under the hood of a MKIII


I did a search on that and it came up with this thread and another one. In the other one there was a link to pictures of the engine in an MR2, not an MK3 i believe... if you could find the picture your talking about and post it up that would be great for future reference.

Thanks

John

[exzercist]

my 87t would click and click forever, then sometimes it would crank forever but never start. replaced the starter with a new one, new battery wires, terminals and battery. but still the same thing. then when iw ould drive it the thing would sometimes just die if i was at a street light. then guess what it would just crank forever again then after a couple of minutes cranking it and witing it would just fire up out of the blue! wtf it pisses me off. my friend has a 88t he said it could be due to a faulty fuel pump or cold start injector. but that doesnt fix the clicking prob and cranking prob. the relay on the passenger side clicks and i have full power when it does decide to crank im lost on this prob. can anyone help?

[HacksMKIII]

Thanks For the Info:
My 88na will turn over till the cows come home but won't start. :(
Ill be checking that wire tomorrow.

[HacksMKIII]

I checked the wire and yes it was cover in junk.

Cleaned it up both sides the wires and the slot.

Once done started right up. WooHoo

Dang it only took 5 min from start to finish.

THANKS for starting this post. This one should be a sticky for sure.

[FinalRights]

Anyone have an AC Delco or napa part number for the toyota starter wiring kit?

[noboostsucks]

Has anyone checked their safety neutral switches or the switch on the clutch pedal? I have had that problem on every single toyota i have ever owned. Sometimes just adjusting the switches can make a huge difference. I just bypass the clutch switch on 5spd supras. If you spin it over in gear and lunge out into another car or something its your own fault!

[Chris89]

ok, well i had the little black terminal thing break off my starter.. so i just grabbed another used starter laying around with 60k more miles on it than mine, swapped out the little Spring magnetic thing and bolted it all up and got everything good to go and It wouldn't crank...Click comes from glove compartment and i'm not getting any codes....and all connections are good. What's wrong?

[Nocheez]

I have this problem too. If I hold the key in the start position, it will start after a few seconds. I don't want to burn anything up, so sometimes it takes holding it a couple seconds each time before it finally "catches."

The lights dim while I have the key turned, and there is an audible single click from the passenger's side.

This problem is bad when it's hot and humid out, and it's 92 degrees today. I don't want to get stranded anywhere, so I'm going to check this when I get to Ohio this weekend and have access to a good jack and stands, possibly the lift.

[KEITH]

Didn't read all the threads, but mine does the same thing. If you turn the key and hear a "clack", the solenoid is engaging (extending out to mesh with the teeth on the flywheel) but the starter is not turning over. When I'm on a flat surface, I put the car in second or reverse, stick my foot out the door and rock the car (hard) frontward and backward turning the key forward when it puts a bind on the drive train. This will turn the solenoid, which will turn the starter, which will begin starting the car. Be careful though. Sometimes it starts while in gear. I almost backed into a few things that way! If that's the problem, it's best to just buy a rebuilt starter.

[Chris89]

ok, mines all good now, fixed everything...lol

[Nocheez]

ok, mines all good now, fixed everything...lol

And what did you do that definitely corrected it?

[Chris89]

Ok, lol, well i pulled the starter, took it to O'reilly. They tested it for free, so he begin testing and it wouldn't start....He explained what might not have a connection...and BAM i remembered that i had Cut the Terminal 50 wire from inside the starter because i was gonna take that piece off and stick it on my other starter but i had been unsuccessful....so i went home, Re-Soldered the connection, took it back and it Started right up....So i went back home layed that starter aside and went to work on my original starter. So what i did was jimmy rigged a wire from the terminal 50 connection from inside that starter by soldering it in on the connection....then used "Snap Connecters" I crimped one on the Starter wire..."terminal 50" and crimped one on the wire side....snapped them together....put everything back together and It Started Right up!

[Nocheez]

I think I fixed my problem as well. I pulled the starter and took it to the dealership. I took off the brass cover and the parts guy found the right sized contacts. I put the new contacts in and reinstalled the starter. I haven't had a single hesitation when trying to start the car yet.

Here's the guide I used to do this job, written for a different vehicle but basically the same:
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/maintenance/starter/

[raven97990]

FOr those with a electrical "corrosion" issue, the process in Post 22 works flawlessly.

[Cedrock15]

whats the fastest/easiest way to get to the starter to clean terminals, tap in wires, or what do you take off to get to it if you take parts off. Also does anyone recommend getting a can of electrical parts cleaner/degreaser and just spraying it down good?

[Nocheez]

whats the fastest/easiest way to get to the starter to clean terminals, tap in wires, or what do you take off to get to it if you take parts off. Also does anyone recommend getting a can of electrical parts cleaner/degreaser and just spraying it down good?
A 3/8" ratchet with a few extensions (a 6" and 10" is what I used, but more could be helpful) and a swivel joint are extremely helpful. And disconnect the battery :)

Oh, I also heard that the older generation cars were a lot harder to do, so I can't help you there.

[Roger UK]

If your starter is CLICKING but not turning the engine, I have found the most common problem is NOT the internal high-current contacts inside the starter . . .

It's the thin wire that operates the Starter Solenoid. This wire is much too thin for the amount of current it has to carry anyway . . and what happens as a result is that over time this wire corrodes and goes high resistance. (Hence the clicking, the solenoid IS moving, but it can't pull the solenoid in far enough to engage the starter motor)

There is a MUCH SIMPLER fix than previously suggested! (no need to go near the ignition switch wiring)

Just fit a secondary starter relay in the engine bay (suggest on the bulkhead above the starter motor). You can use the original solenoid wire to power the relay as it will now only be carrying very low current (so its resistance won't matter) - you can even plug the existing spade terminal straight onto the new relay coil terminal.

Then run some nice 20 amp cable from the battery (or the fusebox) to this new relay contacts and the other side to the Starter Solenoid spade terminal.

I used to get this clicking occasionally, especially when the engine was hot. I figured it must be a faulty starter motor. However, having come up with this modification six months ago, it has NEVER played up! (I posted it on the UK Supra site, and lots of other people have had the same success)

Sure, you MAY have a faulty starter motor . . . but this is much simpler job than taking the starter off, and is a very worthwhile modification anyway.

By the way, our UK Supras don't have a switch on the clutch that interupts the starter motor ( around 90% of all UK cars still have manual gearboxes, so we are well used to making sure we're not in gear before starting an engine!) That's probably why we also don't have a Starter Relay in the footwell either - the solenoid feed comes straight from the ignition switch via the alarm/immobilser - which makes this modification even more worthwhile on our cars.

[Disco Stu]

I have the exact same problem as you Roger! I will go to the store and buy a relay as soon as possible to fix the issue. When the car is cold it has only failed to start once, however, if it is hot it is like playing Supra Roulette. It is so embarrasing to hang out w/ some car guys at Sonic, then not cruise with them because the car won't start. I have tried tapping it on the front, clicking it tons of times in a row, rocking it in gear - it is always random.

All these problems are with a NEW factory harness and a rebuilt starter from day one!

[Chris89]

Another thing any of you guy's could try is if your not a car mechanic, roll start it and run it over to Autozone or O'reilly auto parts and they will test your Alternator and battery for free, that is if you can roll start it...otherwise, your screwed...jk

[matthead]

my completely rebuilt 87 turbo CRANKS OVER AND WONT START,(hasnt started since rebuild) i dont think there is fuel being delivered to the engine because i cannot hear the fuel pump engage. a while back before the rebuild i had boosted the car, the alt fuseible link blew. (replaced that). can anyone help me and be more specific please.

[Chris89]

The weirdest thing happend the other day. I tried starting my car, and it wouldn't crank nor start....lol.... so i got codes and it was throwing code 24 if i remember right...(Intake air temperature sensor signal) Whatever the hell that is.... so i popped the clutch and drove home...tunred the car off then it started right up no problem?!? also it's been throwing the (Switch signal) code for months now and ocassionally i'll start the car up and it'll idle Real rough/ Very rough..then i just rev the shit out of it and it idles right out lol......

[Cedrock15]

Ok saw that when lights on dash go dim( i watch the digital clock) it means that its internal problem with starter with interal ground/ its shorting out. Well my problem is my car will crank for 10 seconds before it starts, and the digital clock I watch the whole time will go out completely until it starts. My guesses in order is, battery, starter, cold start injector, and timer. Battery was corroded when i got it, i cleaned it and it corrodes itself slightly over likea month, nothing moderate or severe though. I have frequently been testing the voltage for battery and always get 12+ with engine off so believe its fine. But would depleting/low (from age) cold cranking amps cause it to take a long time to crank after car sits for over 6 hrs (starts right up if less than 5,6 hrs) or you guys believe its starter problem. I know starters pita to take out and was gonna get a battery instead of starter this paycheck, you guys think that will work or should i just save for a new starter?

[noboostsucks]

If your motor is spinning over for 10 seconds then its not your starter. The power to everything in many cars is cut while cranking..... your radio goes off right? If you are taking 10 seconds to start everytime when its cold maybe you need a cold start injector or maybe you could just clean it.

[Chris89]

the first time i pulled my starter it was the worst PITA.....5 or more hours......2nd time took me 30min TOPS........ Just gotta get the hang of it and you can do it alot faster. After i relized how to pull the starter... I then figured out how to pull the tranny..... Both are not bad at all and don't take that much time after you've already done it before...lol

[Roger UK]

Stu try the mod, I bet it works for you - I had exactly the same symptoms, even bought another starter but didn't get round to fitting it as NEVER had the problem once since fitting the relay

Here's the link to the details I posted on the UK site

http://www.forum.mkiiisupra.net/showthread.php?t=7830

[Suprawannabe]

Iv read all the post and im just trying to figure out if my problem is just my starter. For about a week I think my igniter was bad since in fist gear I would have to rev real high or the car would stall( also have a code 14). Just 2 days ago I stalled getting out of a parking lot and it took a very long time to start it back up, I mean I had to crank the car over and over about 100 times till it would start to turn over but when it started it idled fine and I got home. The next day I go to start my car and I get nothing, I see the lights dim and hear the noise in the kick panel but the starter doesn’t click or nothing. I went and pulled my codes now im getting 12, 14, and 52. I’m worried about the knock sensor code but in my previous car when the starter would not work I would hear the starter make a click,click,click noise but in this car I hear nothing WTF!!

[Roger UK]

The starter motor ONLY cranks the engine over . . . . if it's not actually starting (ie firing) there are all kinds of different things that can be the problem, such as faulty HT Leads, igniter, Fuel injection system etc etc. Could even just be a dirty electrical connection on one of the many engine sensors.

I would look up your fault codes for a start !

Also . . bear in mind that once you have cranked the engine over a few times the battery will be almost completely flat . . and it will take 4-5 HOURS of driving to fully recharge it again. So don't be surprised if it stops cranking properly if you've been doing it a lot - you have a flat battery ! (or might even need a new one)

[Suprawannabe]

Well im going to see what voltage my battery is putting out now, man would I love that to be my problem.

edit: HOLY CRAP!! is was my battery, I guess im used to the yellow top ultima in my old car( I left my parking lights on overnight and still started) Well I just got a red top. Once I clear all my codes then ill have peace of mind.

[Chris89]

My car won't start sometimes and i'll get the intake air temp sensor signal code and the TPS code... Once i pop the clutch, then turn it off, It'll start right up. I've messed with the tps... but i don't know about the intake temp signal. I know it's located inside the AFM... I pulled the AFM off and it's pretty oily .... Just can't figure out why my car won't start... Doesn't crank or anything....But other times it'll just right up... Also should i run stock timing or 2 degress advanced? and how exactly do you check to see if the ecu is reading lean or rich or whatever?

[tte]

I had the same problem. My car would not start at the mall carpark, cinemas. I had to get it towed home 4 times. I replaced the starter but it was the same...Oneday I got fed up and wired up a small start switch inside and I used that to start the car. That got the car started when i was stuck.

But its been months now and my car hasnt played up and I do not have to use the start switch anymore..

Cheers,
Roy

[mdcmotorsports]

Ill add to this...

-Replaced the starter.
-Replaced the starter signal wire and connection

Still get "clickedy click click" from under the pass side dash area.

If I put a battery charger on the battery, and set it to boost. The Volt meter inside the car jumps to around 16 or so, and wala she starts.

I've cleaned all contacts, and even made new wires. Still no go...

Had the battery tested, Optima red top.... test says battery aok.

Just some thoughts to add to the post....

-How many of us that have this problem have turbo timers? Could this be a culprit?
-I have my battery relocated in the trunk. Could the added amperage draw of the extra cable be culprit?
-Could the cold weather be hurting the battery enough to be draining it and making the car not wanting to start?

***EDIT***

I checked the starter signal wire again today just to make sure... and low and behold the damn thing is loose.

I put a new spade connector on it, and wala. Problem solved.

Guys, if you get stuck and can't push start your car, wiggle the starter signal wire.

[baodownbia]

after replacing the starter like twice...I did roger uk's fix...and i've been good for like a week..i really hope this is a permanent fix..

[Dominic]

If your starter is CLICKING but not turning the engine, I have found the most common problem is NOT the internal high-current contacts inside the starter . . .

It's the thin wire that operates the Starter Solenoid. This wire is much too thin for the amount of current it has to carry anyway . . and what happens as a result is that over time this wire corrodes and goes high resistance. (Hence the clicking, the solenoid IS moving, but it can't pull the solenoid in far enough to engage the starter motor)

There is a MUCH SIMPLER fix than previously suggested! (no need to go near the ignition switch wiring)

Just fit a secondary starter relay in the engine bay (suggest on the bulkhead above the starter motor). You can use the original solenoid wire to power the relay as it will now only be carrying very low current (so its resistance won't matter) - you can even plug the existing spade terminal straight onto the new relay coil terminal.

Then run some nice 20 amp cable from the battery (or the fusebox) to this new relay contacts and the other side to the Starter Solenoid spade terminal.

I used to get this clicking occasionally, especially when the engine was hot. I figured it must be a faulty starter motor. However, having come up with this modification six months ago, it has NEVER played up! (I posted it on the UK Supra site, and lots of other people have had the same success)

Sure, you MAY have a faulty starter motor . . . but this is much simpler job than taking the starter off, and is a very worthwhile modification anyway.

By the way, our UK Supras don't have a switch on the clutch that interupts the starter motor ( around 90% of all UK cars still have manual gearboxes, so we are well used to making sure we're not in gear before starting an engine!) That's probably why we also don't have a Starter Relay in the footwell either - the solenoid feed comes straight from the ignition switch via the alarm/immobilser - which makes this modification even more worthwhile on our cars.

Dean Marcum told me about this above mod , and I never had a starter problem again.

[MixMasterP2k3]

What if there is no clicking? Does that rule out the starter as the problem, or can it still be the starter even if I don't hear clicking. I remember my starter would click, but would start up after a jump. Yesterday, when i wanted to drive my clock dims all the way, but I don't get any noises. It won't crank, and all the accessories work fine.

[reborn_son]

"Starter/Ignition/Power related issues:
-Alarm stopped working a while ago, . could the factory alarm engine disable be causing this? (Does starter click or engine check light come on when the alarm has disabled the car?)"


--Does anyone know the answer to this question???

Could the factory alarm engine disable be causing this? (Does starter click or engine check light come on when the alarm has disabled the car?)"

[SideWinderGX]

Originally Posted by Roger UK
If your starter is CLICKING but not turning the engine, I have found the most common problem is NOT the internal high-current contacts inside the starter . . .

It's the thin wire that operates the Starter Solenoid. This wire is much too thin for the amount of current it has to carry anyway . . and what happens as a result is that over time this wire corrodes and goes high resistance. (Hence the clicking, the solenoid IS moving, but it can't pull the solenoid in far enough to engage the starter motor)

There is a MUCH SIMPLER fix than previously suggested! (no need to go near the ignition switch wiring)

Just fit a secondary starter relay in the engine bay (suggest on the bulkhead above the starter motor). You can use the original solenoid wire to power the relay as it will now only be carrying very low current (so its resistance won't matter) - you can even plug the existing spade terminal straight onto the new relay coil terminal.

Then run some nice 20 amp cable from the battery (or the fusebox) to this new relay contacts and the other side to the Starter Solenoid spade terminal.

I used to get this clicking occasionally, especially when the engine was hot. I figured it must be a faulty starter motor. However, having come up with this modification six months ago, it has NEVER played up! (I posted it on the UK Supra site, and lots of other people have had the same success)

Sure, you MAY have a faulty starter motor . . . but this is much simpler job than taking the starter off, and is a very worthwhile modification anyway.

By the way, our UK Supras don't have a switch on the clutch that interupts the starter motor ( around 90% of all UK cars still have manual gearboxes, so we are well used to making sure we're not in gear before starting an engine!) That's probably why we also don't have a Starter Relay in the footwell either - the solenoid feed comes straight from the ignition switch via the alarm/immobilser - which makes this modification even more worthwhile on our cars.
Dean Marcum told me about this above mod , and I never had a starter problem again.

mmk. i got a little confused from reading this guide by Roger and by reading the one on the UK site, but whatever. so basically you just need the starter relay and TWO wires, and hook them up as said by roger above? for some reason i thought i needed four wires from reading the UK site. do both wires have to be 20A? im gonna have to do some searching around for these particular wires.

im at college now...$540 in my wallet and i need to go to the bank. cars been sitting in the sun since morning, hasnt ran since last night when i drove here. damn thing wont start. im fixing it this weekend, its the last straw lol.

[isnms]

like this - make the red wires 14 gauge
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/isnms/Supra/SupplementalStarterRelay.jpg

[SideWinderGX]

like this - make the red wires 14 gauge
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/isnms/Supra/SupplementalStarterRelay.jpg

i love you.

*hug*

the blue and black wire, from wiring harness, is that the spade connector wire that leads from the battery to the starter? or when i was down there did i totally not see another wire lol. obviously its black and blue, so ill be able to find it, i just want to make sure i use the correct wire.

[isnms]

No. The one that comes from the battery, connected on a stud by a bolt, goes to terminal 30. Leave it as is.

The blue/black comes out of the wire harness and connects to terminal 50 with a female brown spade connector. Should be able to just connect it to the relay.

[SideWinderGX]

aha, ok...thanks =)

[CMSupra]

i dunt kno if this is to late but all i did was run a decent size wire from the signal off the starter str8 to the ingnition wire from under the steering, worked on my 1st, 2nd, and friends corrolla. im pretty sure the relay way is the professinal or the right way.....

[Nocheez]

i dunt kno if this is to late but all i did was run a decent size wire from the signal off the starter str8 to the ingnition wire from under the steering, worked on my 1st, 2nd, and friends corrolla. im pretty sure the relay way is the professinal or the right way.....

Yes, because you don't want a large, positive wire that has no fuse running through half of your car.

[SideWinderGX]

that blue and black wire has a female connector at the end, you said...the relay has prong tips. as far as i know, that round connector wont fit well over that prong tip haha. will i have to pry off the connector and attach the wires to something else?

and what if i use 12 gauge wire? i dont think thered be a difference, yes it has a lower impedance (not sure if its the right term or not) but i couldnt see anything catastrophic happening.

[CyFi]

Nice. I replaced my starter(total pita) and did the relay mod at the same time and worked wonderfully. They have these insulated spade connectors (comes with three male three female) at radioshack listed for 10-12 awg wire, they worked perfect and slid onto the relay spades along with the spade on the starter perfectly.

and btw anything below his specified 14 awg would be fine, even 10, hell you could use 2 awg wire if you wanted, as long as its larger thats all that matters.

I think these are the ones i got.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104020&cp=2032058.2032231.2032283&parentPage=family

[flubyux2]

well, i ended up having the same problem a few months ago too.

i thought my starter was just old. i took a spare starter and had the contacts replaced. then i crawled under my hot car and swapped the starters after alot of cussing. doing the swap w/ the pre-91 starters is a HUGE PITA. fuck nuts and bolts! so, new starter on and nothing but Clicking. it wouldnt crank the car on its own. i put the other starter back on w/ the best of 4 used contacts thinking the new contacts were faulty. i had no improvement. so i put the starter w/ the NEW contacts back on and got a ride to autozone.

i picked up a small spool of 12awg primary wire, heat shring female spade connectors and some tape. i used the stock Starter solenoid wire and extended it to trigger the relay. i grounded the other side of the relay coil. im pulling 12v from my alternator cable which is connected directly to my Battery (relocation kit). the other side of the relay runs to the starter and i soldered/taped the factory starter solenoid connector for plug-and-play use.

SUCCESS! all my previous starter issues went away.

turns out, no matter HOW good the contacts are on the starter bendix, it will NOT fully extend the starter gear. if it doesnt fully extend the starter gear, the final contacts will not energize the motor of the starter and the engine will not crank. the main culprit is lack of voltage to the starter bendix. get a solid 12v to the bendix and youre golden!

[plaaya69]

Do you guys have any pics of the work you've done. I would like to see it because I may fix this on my 87 Turbo supra.

[isnms]

^yep, diagram back on post #71 ;)

[Test pilot]

if i replace the blue and black wire with a thicker guage, will that solve the starter issue and skip the added relay?

[1jzdrftr]

I'm amazed at how many different posts turned up in an MKIII search for "starter." Tons of them describe the same problem I'm having, but I have a few more specific details.

3 times in 2 weeks and around 20-30 starts, the car has failed to start, not working until returning to it hours later. Observations and symptons:

-there is a noise on the passenger side of the car
-there is a slight clicking in the direction of the ignition/starter
-all the car's accessories come on fine when I try to start
-battery and check engine lights come on
-interior lights do NOT dim when trying to start
-seems to be after the car has sat for a day (running errands, it will start 5-6 times in the span of a few hours, but then not go the first try on the next day)
-stock voltage meter reads ~12 after several unsuccessful starts

Starter/Ignition/Power related issues:
-Alarm stopped working a while ago, and it is really hard to turn the key in the door (locks are in bad conditon). could the factory alarm engine disable be causing this? (Does starter click or engine check light come on when the alarm has disabled the car?)
-There is a big stereo system installed, but is turned down or all the way off and car still won't start
-There is a blitz FATT turbo timer, and after a failed start with check engine light on, it still starts counting down

I need to know what the most likely culprit is, and any other useful tips that will help me and future newbs with this problem. Thanks in advance.

dont know if u found ur problem but..its the alarm trippin out on u..i jus fully disengaged my alarm..theres 2 black boxes under the steering column on the fire wall u disconnect a wire and ground it to something..then ull be good

[fastspoolsupra]

Sorry to bump an old thread. But what causes the passenger side of the car to click?

Mine has troubles on HOT starts (If it sits for a few hours it's fine)

I just installed
1. New alternator
2. New battery
3. New starter
4. New starter fuse (100A)

And still nothing. I don't have a stereo, or anything aftermarket, and no engine codes.

I can also hear something clicking in the hatch of the car. It's a 1987 Supra, na auto.

[Kalisto]

Thanks Roger that solved my problem after about 4 months of scratching my head.

[Nocheez]

Sorry to bump an old thread. But what causes the passenger side of the car to click?

Mine has troubles on HOT starts (If it sits for a few hours it's fine)

I just installed
1. New alternator
2. New battery
3. New starter
4. New starter fuse (100A)

And still nothing. I don't have a stereo, or anything aftermarket, and no engine codes.

I can also hear something clicking in the hatch of the car. It's a 1987 Supra, na auto.
I don't know about the N/As, but if you're hearing a clicking it's probably a relay somewhere. A relay is pretty cheap to replace, and they do go bad from time to time.

[SideWinderGX]

if i replace the blue and black wire with a thicker guage, will that solve the starter issue and skip the added relay?

if you replace the entire thing, yes.

i just put in the relay one or two days ago, and the thing fires right up every time.

[sgtmcboom]

Same issue with N/A cars

Put in wires relay and fuse might cost 10 bucks but save you hours alot of blood and keep you from cussing like a sailor.

[pwain]

Sorry to bump an old thread. But what causes the passenger side of the car to click?

Mine has troubles on HOT starts (If it sits for a few hours it's fine)

I just installed
1. New alternator
2. New battery
3. New starter
4. New starter fuse (100A)

And still nothing. I don't have a stereo, or anything aftermarket, and no engine codes.

I can also hear something clicking in the hatch of the car. It's a 1987 Supra, na auto.


Yeah I just picked up an 88 supra its NA 5 speed. The previous owner replaced the starter less then a month ago. Man the car is acting up. It's a hit or miss. Sometimes it will start without a problem, runs fine. Then I park it, come back an hour or two later then she will crank but not start. Battery looks good, the connections are tight as well.

I have yet to check for spark. But if it was a fuel pump issue, wouldn't the starting problem be more consistent? Like I mentioned above, sometimes the car will start up..then sometimes it will crank but not fire up.

I have a similar click coming from the hatch area as fastspool mentioned. It's like one loud CLICK after unsucessfully trying to fire her up.

[pwain]

Yeah I just picked up an 88 supra its NA 5 speed. The previous owner replaced the starter less then a month ago. Man the car is acting up. It's a hit or miss. Sometimes it will start without a problem, runs fine. Then I park it, come back an hour or two later then she will crank but not start. Battery looks good, the connections are tight as well.

I have yet to check for spark. But if it was a fuel pump issue, wouldn't the starting problem be more consistent? Like I mentioned above, sometimes the car will start up..then sometimes it will crank but not fire up.

I have a similar click coming from the hatch area as fastspool mentioned. It's like one loud CLICK after unsucessfully trying to fire her up.

Ok I have a strong feeling that it was the starter fuse. sob was a tad bit loose. Fastened it in, she fired up fast.

[supradude7mgte]

wow, if only this post was here when i needed it, because this is the exact thing that went wrong. it was the little wire off of the alternator that was the culprit.

[3zblur]

heres one for ya guys. i go to crank my car it cranks turns on but making noise on the starter so i shut down and it kills the fuel but it keeps cranking and cranking until i pull the bat. hoping its just a bad starter thats for some reason staying on but wanted to see what the forums had to offer in opinions or if anyone has run into this. 88 5spd turbo

[Polk]

Well I've come up with an idea on how to solve the starter problem also Mine I believe is easier.

Take a push button switch (or toggle switch) with two points.(one for load one for battery connection.)
And run a wire from the positive side of the battery to the second point on the push button switch, then run another wire from the little 'clip thing' that runs up into the car and connect that to the load point.Then push and hold the button while key is turned to on position.and viola your car starts with no problems.

I'm still working on this right now.I plan on using ten gauge wire to run from the battery while using twelve gauge wire to run to the starter.I'm going to route the wires through the hole in the center console where the shifter protrudes through the floor.
I'll take pictures to illistrate this If I can.

ON ANOTHER NOTE:
Its always a good idea to run a fuse inline with the switch just so you don't fry the starter.(If thats possible.)

[90nikes]

Alright..

My digi clock, interior lights, air bag light all work. However, when I go to turn the key there isn't a click coming from the starter, the interior dome lights do not dim, but the air bag and digi clock lights go off when trying to start.. Ideas? Thanks



Edit: It'll crank by connecting a wire from starter directly to +terminal on battery, however there is no spark..

[red88turbo]

Well I've come up with an idea on how to solve the starter problem also Mine I believe is easier.

Take a push button switch (or toggle switch) with two points.(one for load one for battery connection.)
And run a wire from the positive side of the battery to the second point on the push button switch, then run another wire from the little 'clip thing' that runs up into the car and connect that to the load point.Then push and hold the button while key is turned to on position.and viola your car starts with no problems.

I'm still working on this right now.I plan on using ten gauge wire to run from the battery while using twelve gauge wire to run to the starter.I'm going to route the wires through the hole in the center console where the shifter protrudes through the floor.
I'll take pictures to illistrate this If I can.

ON ANOTHER NOTE:
Its always a good idea to run a fuse inline with the switch just so you don't fry the starter.(If thats possible.)


Just thought you should know that you should use the same AWG wire on both the line and load side of your switch. Even with an inline fuse, you'll be pulling the same amount of amperage through both sides of the switch.

10 AWG = 30 amps

12 AWG = 20 amps

Whatever size wire you choose to go with on both sides of the switch, size your fuse accordingly. What you have posted is nothing new, but good for you for thinking it up on your own. (I'm assuming you did) I did the same thing on my 88 turbo almost 6 years ago.

[piper1]

Ok guys I need some help. I of coarse am new to the forum because I just bought a 87 a few weeks back. I've read all posts from this thread and of coarse I have the same starter problem. It was running, then getting hot and not starting up, once cooled down started, but now its not starting at all. I have done the relay mod today and no luck. which connection do I test the starter straight to the battery? was it the from the blue/black that hooked up to the relay? I've thinking at this point it's either the solenoid or starter but havn't tested that yet, was going to run the wire straight from starter post to battery like orig. posted, but I'm not sure which post thats on.

Also since im at least the 3rd owner there's been alot going on under there. Theres a green wire coming down from what I can tell is close to the blue/black wire harness and the other harnesses coming down from there, but it's not connected to anything, where should that hook up to?

[nofear6235]

I'll update the thread, someone may have same problem I just fixed.
Lately experienced all above signs, clicking sound and dead starter.
I install new battery cables, refresh all grounds, fully charge battery and nada...
Turn out it was that blue/black wire from the relay coming out the harness and female connector inside the plastic at the end. It should power the solenoid as far I can say.
Well, it was too loose over the actual starter connector, also wire almost broke and the end where female connector sits.
I cut female connector off blue wire, made extension of spare wire with new, tight female connector, put heat shrink over as much as I can, and slide new female connector over the male connector on the starter. Done deal. Didn't miss single start for past several days.
HTH,
Alex

[BuzzBurner]

okay so heres my problem:

I turn the key and nothing happens, lights dim but dont hear any clicks. I can jump the starter by connecting a wire between the two connections on the starter and it works perfectly.

Something isnt working between the switch and the starter, i tested the starter relay on the passenger kick box and it tested good with the ohm meter.

Do you think adding this relay to my starter will work? I've replaced the female connecter on the small wire so it fits onto the starter snug now, and still nothing happens when i turn the key.

[barkz]

lol its you again! i just thought of this...how about a momentary switch from battery directly to starter?

[BuzzBurner]

Haha Wats up. I might have to do that if I don't figure this thing out soon.

[barkz]

dont know why i didnt think of that before.

[flubyux2]

Wire-button-starter will work... If you can't fix it correctly. It might be the contacts on your ign key tumbler itself, since you say you got no clicks or noises. Perhaps you have a factory security that's disabling your starter.

[williamb82]

heres a writeup i found showing how to change the starter contacts and plunger. they are ~$20 for both contacts and plunger together on ebay. just rebuilt the starter on my ls400 a couple weeks ago.

http://george4wd.taskled.com/starter.html

[BuzzBurner]

well imma add this relay and see what happens. it started up just fine before i did the bhg so i dunno if i wanna tear the starter out just yet.

i took out the box under the steering wheel and the key pad is no longer hooked up to anything. i read something about maybe adding a ground where the box use to be but idk where to do this

also, the security key pad was disabled before i bought the car when it started just fine, dunno if that matters

[BuzzBurner]

I added the relay and still nothing. The lights dim when i turn the key so idk if i think its the lock cylinder. i tested the starter relay with the ohm meter and it looked okay but maybe ill just replace it anyway.

[BuzzBurner]

I do hear a click when I push the clutch and then when i turn the key coming from the same spot somewhere in the hatch area? dunno if that would be anything

[flubyux2]

Well the click inside the car means you wiring is doing stuff. The relay is being triggered by the ign contacts correctly. You need to test for 12v at the starter solenoid wire under the hood. Cuz that solenoid should make a noise too. For some reason, I don't think you have 12v going from your relay to your starter solenoid.

[1jChris]

I've been having the same starter problem with my MK3. Just for hell's sake, i tried jump starting it with another vehicle, and the voltage remained at 11.84 but it never started. Basically my question is, why did my voltage remain the same even when connected to another car's battery. My car was off, the other car was on. My starter kept "clicking" but refused to crank.

[barkz]

are your terminals corroded? all fuses still good?

[BuzzBurner]

I just figured mine out, changed a couple terminals and took out this relay that I added and she fired right up, wouldnt start after i changed the terminals and left the relay in so idk what i did wrong with the relay.

Good luck on figuring yours out. can you jump it at the starteR?

[1jChris]

Good luck on figuring yours out. can you jump it at the starteR?

I didn't try that as yet. I left it for a half hr, and when i tried back, it started right up. Very random problem.... Next time it acts up, i will try jumping it from the starter and i hope that will take me one step closer to finding a solution.

[mkiiiboost21]

mn dosent click or annthing lights dim but nothing

[barkz]

^ cool?

[mkiiiboost21]

just woundering how to test if my problem is my starter while its still on the car or if its something else because sometimes it will turn over and sometimes it does nothing im confused and hope its nothing major

[IamWedge]

Ya know MKiii... This too is in the TSRM. Heres the link to test your starter. http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?S=ST&P=11

[Plumba_J]

Mkiii needs to do the mod by the sounds of it. . .

[SupraCooled]

mod works great, and yes , this should be a sticky

[Plumba_J]

It is a sticky!