The Rod Knock FAQ, Contribute!

[Kingsoup]

With my third case of rod knock, I feel its time too make a sticky with professional advice on how too deal with rod knock in the 7M if it happens too you.

I personally redid my bearings on a spec. crank back in january, and its coming back too haunt me now. Doing a search on SF did not give me the info I needed too do this job properly.

So info from people who know what they are doing.

1. How does oversized bearings work? Machining rods and crank then matching + sized bearings too fit?

2. Methods of repairing rod knock. I've heard some people pull crossmember and repair from underneath, but I think pulling the motor is the real only way too do it.

A lot of us cannot afford too have engine rebuilt by a machine shop, and want too do the work ourselves, I want too have a thread with the right info on how a home mechanic can tackle this job.


Contribution is appreciated! with enough professional advice I hope this can be made a Sticky and save some people from the EXTREME hassle and hatred towards their Mk3 that has already occured too me.

[drjonez]

the #1 cause of rod knock in the 7M is low oil level. keep the engine full of oil, you'll never have a problem. see the thread on oil pans....sdude has some great info there....

[fuzebox]

It was cheaper for me to swap in a JDM block than to repair the rod knock... FWIW, from the time I first hurt the knocking for half a second around 2000rpm, I started running 20w50 oil, and drove the car the same as always (revving high, 14psi all the time, etc) for the next 5 months before it finally went BANG and then sounded like you were shaking a can of marbles every time you revved. probably close to 20,000km?

[1ndecent]

It is VERY important to flush out the oil cooler and lines during the rebuild.

[erh7771]

I’m new to 7Ms but why not just buy a brand new crank and brand new main and rod bearings instead of getting the old one turned?

I've had bad experiences with getting older cranks turned and using oversized bearings. I've found that a newer crank on some cars cost just as much as getting an older cranked turned.

Does anyone know where you can pick up a new crank for the 7M engines for a good price?

Also is it necessary to ‘rebuild’ the engine (rods, rings, valves etc) instead of snatching it out of the car and just replacing the old crank?

thanx

[Shawndude]

Originally posted by erh7771
I’m new to 7Ms but why not just buy a brand new crank and brand new main and rod bearings instead of getting the old one turned?
I'm guessing you've had experience with domestic engines?

Check out the price of a new crankshaft:
http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/EPC/MKIII_NATO/parts/13411.html

How does 700 dollars sound?

;)

[Kingsoup]

Good point about flushing the oil cooler, I didn't do that after my last one.

For my first case of rod knock I had just done a head job, and got some oil on the timing belt, it looks like the belt strectched out during a high rpm run and wasn't turning the oil pump like it should.

So the TSRM has a strange numerical table on what cap too put with what rod. From what I understand the number on the cap indicates it is + or - a certain thousands of clearance. So if I measure with plastiguage that I'm out of clearence by .003 on a rod cap, how do I compinstate? You can't get a + size bearing for just one rod can you? Assuming the journals on your crank (post rod=knock) are not in bad shape, do they need too be machined? How does this all add up together? (I saw some fair explanations on search, but it seems too be down right now)

Is there a way too compensate for using + sized bearings all around?

[steve_mk3]

since i have no experiance myself, I checked here
http://www.supras.nl/view.php?page=maintenanceBlock.htm

Steve

[Thermactor]

Alex, your motor blew again? GAH!

[Johnny Dangerously]

my remedy for rod knock.....get a used JDM engine..use the bottom end..replace rings and oil pump and bearings while ur at it.

sell the left over parts (i.e. head, etc.) make some money back from the grand u spent.

[TRD Charger + Propane]

I did my own rebuild after I had rod knock after racing uphill.

Hardest part is the engine prep+pulling after it's out it's a cake walk with standerd tools.

"Always replace you oil Pump if your in there" and you had low oil pressure is what a Guy at work with an 10 sec cuda said. And having a crank turnd can not always work out. I got a used good crank on Car-parts.com and it was like 75 bucks to my house in good condition.

All new main and rod bearings and one new rod. It is costly but I rather have a fresh rebuilt motor then a 35K jdm that could have been beatin to high hell. Because if we all needed to get rid of our motors every 40K then sht I'd be spraying and boostin till the head burpd.

And for the grand that your going to spend on a JDM, you can put some Na cams in, get some nice headwork, new rings the full 9 to get that motor to run at a Virgin state with some extra loving for fun.

The part that took me the longest was finding parts during the rebuild, if it wasn't for Oakbrook TOyota giving me the wrong main bearings then It could of been out, rebuilt head+block milled, under 2 weeks in my garage with some help from buddies.

That's all I have to say about that.

Good Luck to whoever needs to read this.

Kam

[animantoric]

When i did my rebuild, I mic'ed the crank and rod journals, mains and rods like 3 times each. Took forever, but I think it was neccessary. Then I looked in the TSRM and numbered everything and added the two sides together. Seems to work fine, then again I have like new toyota everything: bearings, oil pump, all the gaskets (and I mean every one) all in all, 1500 bux and 1 and 1/2 years later, I have a strong runnin supe. I'm a proud daddy cancha tell? :D:D

[Johnny Dangerously]

hehe..thats funny cause i did a Full rebuild back in january..took 4 months.

Replaced everyhing except pullies and cam gears.
replaced all bearings, rods, pistons, rings, had the block fully machined, head was milled, 2.0mm HKS MHG thrown in. New oil pan, oil pump, the list went on till everything was replaced. The car runs like a champ.

Rule #1 ALWAYS CHECK THE OIL AT LEAST 3 times a week.
I always check my oil now, im super paranoid about it constantly.

[89SupraN/A]

when i first bought my my Sup. n/a, i began to notice oil appearing underneath the car. i knew the area but couldnt find the where its comeing from. i been checking my oil like everyday and finally found out the oil filter had a hole. weird i thought though. i remember the oil got down so low i think twice where i had to put in like 4 quarts to fill it back up. that was before i found out the oil filter had a hole. if the 7M doesnt like low oil, then how come i still dont have a rod knock?? this happen like 10k miles ago. to this day tho, i check it like every week.

[TRD Charger + Propane]

Prey my friend, prey when i added 4 quarts I needd a rebuld.

Good luck, maybe you were one of them that gotta way from the Rod Knock Monster.

[3rd Mark]

I'm pretty sure i'm on my 2nd case of rod knock. I just replaced my engine LAST summer. and the dreaded tick has returned. My oil pressure is decent but who knows how much longer i have. IT IS NOT BECAUSE I DIDN'T CHECK MY OIL. I was freakin manic about checking my oil. It must have been filing or something in the pan or just a crappy JDM engine. either way i gotta fix it so here goes another summer dedicated to the supra.


PS i hate my car

[King Of The Highway]

shit i think my shit is knocking too. but i think it might be my valves so not sure. but guess im just gonna try to get a new jdm motor so i dont have to waste time. do u guys know where i can get one?

[tiki240]

im fairly sure i got teh knock on # 5... dammit.. this suxors... 10k on rebuild and rear oil seal on turbo starts burnin oil, i run a lil low, and poof... i guess i got about 3 months before the problem gets bad... im only gonna replace that one rod bearing seeing as the rest of the bottom end is less than 10k old.

[pimpy rider]

Yes 7m's are definately a total bitch when it comes to rod bearings. I hear there are different sizes to them. That would explain a lot. I plastigaged mine and they were like perfect and about a week after rebuild they started ticking. Next time i will have to buy the bearings from toyota. And if that doesn't work then i will just get a can of gas and burn all of my supras to the ground cause i will never want to look at one again.

[DeanMarcum]

Just dropping the pan and popping in some new bearings is not really a good idea. If you catch it early enough (rod knock) it can can work but your best bet is to pull the motor and have the rods resized as well. Whenever there is rod knock it beats the crap outta the rod (obviously) which can distort the bore. Pop in the new bearings and you may not get the proper bearing cruch used for retention of the bearing (the little locator tabs are just that--locater tabs. They do not hold the bearing in place.). The main problem with turning the crank is that you loose the nitride coating. However, if the journal is scored or out of round that will cause more damage than anything. The nitride coating is nice to have but the negatives of a scored journal or out of round journal outweight the benefits.

On assembly, make sure everything is clean, super clean. If you have a set of inside/outside micrometers measure everything at least twice. Then, on final assembly check the clearances with Plastigauge (green).

Oil pump: make sure you measure the clearances, especially on a brand new pump. I had to go through 8 pumps to find one within specs at the dealership.

Toyota offers diiferent sized bearings to compensate for the slight machining errors when the motor was built. That is why they lasted as long as they did from the factory even with relatively low oil pressure. Re-build the motor with the "close enough" mentality and the motor will fail. If you need to have the crank turned just be sure to buy a good set of bearings and have the crank and rods matched to the bearings. If the crank is in good enough shape (nothing on the journal catched your fingernail) then measure the crank journal AND the inside bore of THAT rod and use the TSRM to determine which bearing you need. Do not rely solely on the stampings on the block and crank to determine which bearings to use as even a slight amount of wear on either or both surfaces will facilitate the need for a different sized bearing.

[ImUrTurboLover]

well since I've just developed a minor case of the dreaded knock (i think), I guess i'll ask a few questions

#1 is it normal for rod knock to be between certain rpms? for example I can only hear my knock from 2000rpm till about 3500rpm after that it doesn't seem to be happening... my car is completely stock.. stock boost, stock turbo, stock everything... it still boosts like a champ.. still pulls like a motherfucker... oil pressure is around normal.. never gets much higher than around 20psi tho (this is on stock gauge however)... today is the first day I've really heard it.. and its hard to hear from inside the car

[Po' Kid]

#1 is it normal for rod knock to be between certain rpms? for example I can only hear my knock from 2000rpm till about 3500rpm

Yes that is the RPM range that knock is typically audible.



never gets much higher than around 20psi tho (this is on stock gauge however)...

I thought pressure should get clse to like 40 PSI at least?


Also, for info. Once you get to the point that you can hear knock, you are beyond simply swapping in new bushings. There is a very low chance that it will work as long as the OEM setup. Your only chance is machined crank (or new), resized rods, and OS bearings.

[phenom_supra]

Hi guys,

I just purchased my first Supra (1987 Turbo) from a guy for 300.00. The body is nice and straight, the interior is cool, the engine compartment looks cool too. I bought it as a project car and told him I was willing to buy it even with problems because I plan to restore this car and learn along the way. When I bought it, he told me that the car was making wierd knocking/ticking noises and that he was afraid to drive it in that condition. He didn't want to put any more money into the car, and thus he sold it for a really low price. After having the car towed home, I started it and I heard the noise he was referring to. It sounded like a ticka ticka ticka sound and sped up as rpms increased. After looking at the ALLDATA on the car, my first guess was that may the car needed a valve adjustment, or the timing belt had slipped, or maybe one of the lifters had gone bad. After reading this forum, I am convinced it is rod knock. Can someone please explain to me what rod knock is? It sounds to me like it's the same as a spun bearing. Can the car be driven like that? i.e. if I need to drive the car to a shop or something, will I risk blowing something? The engine felt responsive when revved, it just made really annoying noises.

Thanks

[89 Black Beauty]

hey welcome to the forums... my suggestion to you if you don't get alot of responses is to post this in the mkiii main section because this thread that you posted in has been around for months even years and your question is way at the bottom.

To answer your question... i would not even turn the car on.. if it's bad i've seen pictures of people putting cylinders through their blocks and then they need to buy a new block along with crank and rods pistons etc..
Rod Knock can be the rod having play on the crank, thus scratching and scoring it making you need to buy another one (not cheap!) or some cases the rod has actually broken and caused bad things!
rod knock mean rebuild... no question. New pistons and rods and i sure hope you didn't hurt your crank.

How much did you buy it for?
Even though it's damaged, you probably still got a deal because once you rebuild the engine, you have a brand new car basically that will have a durable engine and you paid way less than buying a new car. :bigthumb:

[CalgarySupra]

almost all jdm engines will have rod knock

my new 7mgte full rebuild with best parts has a rod knock

[89 Black Beauty]

almost all jdm engines will have rod knock

my new 7mgte full rebuild with best parts has a rod knock

why? how did that happen? was it oiled?
i'm getting scared because i'm going to be rebuilding my engine

[phenom_supra]

How much did you buy it for?
Even though it's damaged, you probably still got a deal because once you rebuild the engine, you have a brand new car basically that will have a durable engine and you paid way less than buying a new car. :bigthumb:

I bought it for $300.00. I figured that for a car that cheap, I couldn't go wrong. Plus, I want to start a business some day specializing in Supras so I want to learn everything possible about these engines. I'm a mechanic right now, but all I get to work on are deisel engines. I want to go into cars, and more specifically performance tuning. So, basically this engine is shot. Should I simply rebuild it, or get another engine? Which would be the most cost-effective option in your opinion? So far i'm leaning towards a rebuild.

Thanks

[89 Black Beauty]

What i would do is tear it down and look at the internals... if it looks good then get a machine shop to check it, i don't know exactly what they do but they can tell you if the crank etc.. are still good and then machine them so that you can reuse them. I'd try to use as much as you can unless you are looking for a performance buildup and you'd be looking for pistons etc..

[CalgarySupra]

why? how did that happen? was it oiled?
i'm getting scared because i'm going to be rebuilding my engine


YES of course there was always oil, even though my last engines knocked always had oil in it, so i purchased to rebuild, 5200 dollars later. wasted.

[me_1]

I looked at this thread too late....

:(

good info though.

[92turbo4life]

I Just Got It Last Night:(

[Shred]

I hear there are different sizes to them. That would explain a lot. Many Toyota cars have select fit bearings. The number is stamped on the block. Follow the TSRM online to figure the size you need.

[TiWo2.0]

I've been driving my 88 turbo for about 7 months. Over the winter my engine has developed a noise, a slight ticking noise to be specific. But only when it's warmed up, and only at an idle. Could this be a rod knock, or is it just the rocker arms? I swear that the engine is smooth as butter when I hit the gas... It only ticks at an idle.

[89targaturbo]

:

[rocar]

the #1 cause of rod knock in the 7M is low oil level. keep the engine full of oil, you'll never have a problem. see the thread on oil pans....sdude has some great info there....

I had just put in 8lt of new oil so it not only oil level and by the way mine is Dry sump system.
This is the third time and I did not have to grind the crank because I always find they are bend.
I bought twice Brand new original crank and first a set of Pauter rods know a set of Crower.
I would like to know why these engines have this problem and why 2jz don't have it (as long as I know)
I saw that there are so called black bearings and it is claimed they live twice a normal bearing but unfortunatly they don't have for our engines.
If I would have the 2jz bearing dimensions I will try to fit a set of the bearings a have another chance before swaping to JZ

[rocar]

I used Clevettes and even ACL bearings these after market bearings are all the same so they don't have grades like the originals,the crankshaft is always change with a brand new and the rods new too so I assume I had factory clearance .
I always had big eng bearing failture never had problems with mains.
The Dry sump pump is a three stage Peterson and was modified especially by Ted components.I had 100psi cold 80 psi hot 40psi idle.
Pressure gauge fitted on the main gallery.

[TiWo2.0]

Has anyone ever owned a 7mgte that NEVER had rodknock? I'm begginning to think this is a major problem...

[D Walker]

Rod bearing failure can be caused by many things. Other than the common lack of oil, improper clearance at assembly, improper machining, failure to torque properly, and my favorite- ignition knock, are all causes of bearing failure.

In rebuilt engines the main source of bearing failure is assembly errors. One of the most common I see is that the cranks are ground to and undersize, say .010. The crank is fitted to the block, and might be plastigauged to give a rough idea of the clearance. As right as this sounds(and it is even the method recommended in several manuals), it is in fact flawed. This is because most Japanese engines use select fit bearings. The way select fit works is that each bearing is measured independently, on both the crank AND the block. If you only make the crank pefect you are still going to be off because the block isnt right.Heres an example: You have your crank turned a perfect .010, measure it several times at the proper temperature, and it specs out perfect. You then obtain the correct size bearings and think yo uare OK, but you are not. The block must be line bored to give the proper clearance as well. Once this is done you MUST measure the block and crank at the proper temperature to prevent tolerance stacking and give you realistic measurements. industry standard is 70 degrees IIRC. The crank and block must be stabilized at this temp for some time. All Japanese and most other engines are measured and specs given for a specific temperature range. This is very important and often overlooked.

The second most common assembly error is torque specifications. You have no idea how many engines are assembled without a proper calibrated torque wrench, a manual in-hand giving the correct torque specs, and how few assemblers have a good unserstanding of how to torque a fastener. The important things here are:
>The correct torque spec IN FRONT OF YOU. DO NOT rely on your memory or your friends, your mom, your freinds moms memory for engine fasteners. Follow ALL procedures called for in the manual or spec sheet.
>Proper lubrication for the torque spec you are using. Some fasteners require no lubricant, some require motor oil, and some require specific lubricants. FIND OUT before you even pick up your torque wrench.
>Properly chased threads. The use of a thread chaser, NOT a tap or die, is imperative for critical engine fasteners. Threads should be clean and dry before you begin any assembly.
>A properly calibrated and used torque wrench. I use an electronic, the most accurate are often beam types but they require some practice to use correctly. "Click" types are the most likely to not be accurate and the most likely to be abused. Read the instructions and understand how to use and care for your torque wrench. If you cant buy a good one, try and borrow one.

Cleanliness is next to perfection in engine assembly. Assembling the engine in your garage with the door open is not the best idea. you shoud really try to assemble the engine in a "clean room". Blowing out the block and crank with air is fine after you wash it and to clean the bolt holes etc, but afterwards use clean rags and solvent to wipe down everything. When you have the block cleaned, MAKE ABSOLUTELY sure all the oil galleys are cleaned with a brush and solvent, more solvent, brush again, and then more solvent. You must pull all the galley plugs to do this, so plan on new ones. The next place that MUST be clean is the oil filter housing and the oil pump if you are re-using it. Dis-assemble completely, clean thouroughly, and re-assemble as cleanly as you can. Oil coolers should be discarded after an engine failure. They are much cheaper than a motor, and will have trash in them.

Next issue of rod knock comes when you run weak gas, too much boost, or too much timing. Ignition knock will kill rod bearings, and in some cases can kill them in a single hard run. You can typically tell because rather than fine particles in the oil you will have large chunks of bearing material flying about. This occurs because as the knock happens you are typically on a thinning oil film, and the knock overcomes the film strength and hammers the rod onto the bearing, causing a "dent". with a little knock this becomes excess clearance and over time you lose the bearing. With a lot of knock you continue to dent the bearing and hammer it out until the oil film cannot protect the bearing, and the crank tries to weld itself to the bearing surface. Once this happens you are doomed- and it all takes about 1 second.

DO NOT try and replace rod bearings after yo uhave lost one- the rods will oval and need to be re-seized before they will successfully take a bearing. If yo uhave damaged the crank that too will need fixing.

[TiWo2.0]

Interresting. I have talked to several engine machinists, and they do not do half of those things before they let you have your engine back. Infact, Jarco sells a "rebuilt" longblock for the MKIII that has the cranck ground, and new rod bearings/rings put in it only. I bet this is why they only warranty their engines for one year? Personally, after hearing that, I'd rather rebuild an engine myself rather than have it done. Just to make sure those "little" details get attention. About ignition knock, I own a 94 sierra V8 5.7L with 278,xxx miles on it, and it has been running on a stretched timing chain for 7 months daily. Now wouldn't this be considered ignition knock? I can tell it runs way rich. But then why hasn't it had any knock? Maybe it's just the 7m thats a little more prone to those problems? Just ballparking here people... All I know is that I got rod knock after four months of daily driving my supra, and I know alot of you are in the same boat. It sux...

[QWIKSTRIKE]

http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278963

How about a post on how to minimize or avoid rod knock. This topic was already covered in this thread why reinvent the wheel.

[Kevin Johnson]

Rocar, I am guessing you have an oil cooler -- was that replaced after each failure? Consistently I have heard from professional teams that they should be tossed after a failure because they are too difficult if not impossible to thoroughly clean out.



I used Clevettes and even ACL bearings these after market bearings are all the same so they don't have grades like the originals,the crankshaft is always change with a brand new and the rods new too so I assume I had factory clearance .
I always had big eng bearing failture never had problems with mains.
The Dry sump pump is a three stage Peterson and was modified especially by Ted components.I had 100psi cold 80 psi hot 40psi idle.
Pressure gauge fitted on the main gallery.

[kayledao]

i have an 87 turbo with the dreaded knock
but my 90 is free of it and runs great will be worring about the knock after i put a whole lot more boost thru the motor
going to make sure that i get a new oil pump so that i can try to aviod that
figure a little money on in the beggining might save me from having to rebuilt another motor

[chuck norris]

damn this post is hella depressing. makes me just want to sell my supra before i even start working on it....

[MikeIII]

I have a 1JZ-GTE with 15K miles on it shipped over from Japan and it is sitting on my shop floor. What do I need to do with it before installing it to "help" prevent this knock epidemic? The 89 supra I have now has a 7M-GE in it and it has such a severe knock in it, that I cringe starting it to move it.

[Zumtizzle]

Has anyone ever owned a 7mgte that NEVER had rodknock? I'm begginning to think this is a major problem...

RIGHT HERE. Checked the oil every friday before school. Too Bad it's gone now. :(

205k miles when it was T-Boned. Still going strong.

[suprahajimoto]

I have noticed that some ppl still use the unorthodox pully after rebuild. If balanced with the crank with the RPS flywheel whould there still be problems?

[finalturismo]

EVERYONE HERE THAT HEARS A LITTLE TICK ,PEOPLE its probaly a worn lifter, thats it. Rod barrings will tho at random , and once they due you WILL HEAR IT LOUD AND CLEAN. As soon as you do turn off car and get it towed home for a rebuild.

[1yellowbrick]

My 7M-GE (rod-knock) rebuild story
My son bought a nice clean mkiii with about 120,000mi. The car was originally from Cal, he bought it from the second owner who had had it from about 12000 mi. That owner brought it to Nova Scotia, Canada about 6 years ago, stored inside, summer driven. His mechanic some how screwed up a rad replacement and took out the engine. The "fix" the mechanic did was drop in a JDM replacement. That's when my son bought the car.
About a thousand miles later "rod knock".
The replacement engine was a piece of sh(t. More on that later.
From what we could tell it was actually a BHG that ultimately caused the failure. There were lots of other factors but, coolant in the oil is not a good thing (and it wasn't much). It was not a catastrophic gasket failure, but just enough. None of the typical signs of gaskets failure were present, white smoke on start-up, milky oil, coolant level dropping.
When we pulled the head and inspected the gasket it was distorted around cylinder 5 and had signs of leakage.
Now the rebuild. Decided to pull engine and completely rebuild. Had the head professionally rebuilt $1200 (very nice job). Took the block and crank to a local race shop with a good reputation. Line bore, turn crank, deck the top. They ruined the crank. When we checked the mains and the rod tolerances they were not only way outside of spec but were all different. Got our money back (mostly), and did a crank exchange (highly recommend). Tolerances spot on spec.
Now to the shi))ty JDM engine. There may be some decent ones out there but not this one. The inside of the engine had a layer of tar 1/8th" thick, as if the oil had never been changed. The twin coolant tube that runs the length of the engine was blocked with rust and NOT flowing. I was amazed it had worked for as long as it did.
Total rebuild about $3000, not including personal time (forget the big things, little things add up)
Now the good. Sounds great, runs strong (for a na), (around 4000 mi on the rebuild). So far so good

Advice:
Always check head gasket, (use ARP studs/bolts). Simply rebuilding the bottom end may not remove the cause of the rod bearing failure.

Recommend crank exchange (it was even less expensive than the local guy). I was told these cranks are very difficult to turn, even for experienced machine shops.

Check the tolerances, never assume they are good. If we had simply used the crank as we received back from the machine shop, it would have failed and we would be scratching our heads wondering why.

As a previous poster had said proper torque spec, tool, sequences, etc are essential.

Oh yeah, almost forgot, I'm the dad and I now own the car (no regrets though)

Bottom line these are not necessarily cheap cars to own. And unfortunately there are no hard and fast rules as to the best way to repair any engine issue. The cheap and easy (JDM drop-in) route may work, and it may just delay the inevitable, and cost more.

[metaphysico]

I have been through this on 3 of my supras. All three were because of low oil level. The first was in a car a bought that did not have the motor in it. I installed the engine filled the oil and went 1000 miles before I was 3 quarts low.
The second was a car I bought that already had a knock.
The third developed after the oil went low due to a leaking front main seal, that susprisingly never leaked at all unless running then it poured oil, strange thing was there was no oil on bottom of engine.
In the first car I destroyed the crank after driving with the knock for 6 months, finaly the bearing gave and goodby crank. Machine shop said there was not enough left to refinish.
The second 2 I caught while they were barely knocking at around 3.5k-4k rpm. I measured the rods and crank and compared to specs for the stock bearings and made sure the oe ones were still ok to be in spec and they were. No plastiguage here just micrometers. The cranks were not damaged on either car so new bearings and no problems. Now if you go to toyota and get the bearings there are 6 numbers from 0-5 they are all slightly diffrent sizes and you can find you size by adding block numbers to the rod numbers and you get your number. The numbers staped on the oil pan mating surface on block are for the main bearings that is why there are 7 of them.
Now according to the parts people at toyota I am stupid because there is no need for getting the "proper" sized bearings as if I just use the #4 size it will be "good enough". Damn I hate hearing that term with cars. I had to listen to students say that all the time while we were working on a nascar, good enough is not enough at 200mph is what I figure. So anyway the parts people told me that their service techs will just install the #4 bearings on all cranks that are stock. With so fighting and 3 diffent dealerships I finaly got the correct sized bearings.
Now if you have a bearing go out you can have the crank filled and reground back to the factory specs instead of oversizing, the up side to this is there is usualy only one bearing that goes out and it will be cheeper than a new crank or having to regrind all of the journals again. Around $50 to fill and regrind 1 journal and $25 each additional.

[mike gorelyy]

my remedy for rod knock.....get a used JDM engine..use the bottom end..replace rings and oil pump and bearings while ur at it.

sell the left over parts (i.e. head, etc.) make some money back from the grand u spent.

IVE GOT A KNOCK NOT SURE WUT TO DO. SHOULD I GO 1JZ OR JUST WORK ON THE MKIII I PLANED ONLY DOING MINOR FULE IMPROVEMENTS WUTIS THE MOST EFFECTIVE AND LEAST WALET DRAINING WAY TO GO?