future Suspension FAQ -- feedback/info appreciated [Archive]

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ma71supraturbo

12-05-2003, 01:37 AM

In the spirit of putting off studying for finals, I'm starting to work on gathering suspension information for the mk3. For the time being, I'm focusing on springs/shocks and coilovers. Unfortunately, a lot of the specs I'm looking for are not published so if you can add anything please let me know (like spring rates for the stock mk3 and common lowering springs)

Ignore the gibberish that follows in the next posts, I once had HTML permissions on SF, but the tables no longer show up. Thanks to Spipedong for posthing these on a webpage:

Coilover Table: http://ghettomods.net/coilovertable.html

Sway Bar Table: http://ghettomods.net/swaybartable.html

Lowering Spring Table: http://ghettomods.net/loweringspringtable.html

ma71supraturbo

12-05-2003, 01:39 AM

HKS coilover info (top one is the mk3, bottom 2 are for the mk4. The last one is the HKS "pro" made for road racing). They include specs on the dampener which is cool

<table cellSpacing=0 bgColor=#ffffff border=1><thead><tr><th vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>Model No.</th><th vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>Spring Rate F/R</th><th vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0 colSpan=2>Damping Force Piston Speed 0.1m/sec N(kgf)</th><th vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>Ride Height</th><th vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>Free Length F/R (mm)</th><th vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>Remarks</th></tr><tbody>
<tr><th vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>_</th><th vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>N/mm (kgf/mm)</th><th vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>F: Rebound/Bump</th><th vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>R: Rebound/Bump</th><th vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>(Against stock height, mm)</th><th vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>_</th><th vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#c0c0c0>_</th></tr><tr><td vAlign=bottom borderColor=#000000 bgColor=#000000 colSpan=11>Supra</td></tr><tr vAlign=top><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>1760-ST010 (A70) </td><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>F=137(14)/R=59(6) </td><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>2813/480(287/49) </td><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>666/186(68/19) </td><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>F=-48/R=-28 </td><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>F/R(L=250) </td><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>Without helper spring. </td></tr><tr vAlign=top><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>1760-ST001 (A80) </td><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>F=137(14)/R=78(8) </td><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>2372/764(242/78) </td><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>1391/343(142/35) </td><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>F=-36/R=-2 </td><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>F/R(L=250) </td><td borderColor=#c0c0c0>Without helper spring. Not fit to cars with REAS. </td></tr><td bordercolor="#c0c0c0">1750-ST001 (A80 RACE) </td><td bordercolor="#c0c0c0">F=216(22)/R=157(16) </td><td bordercolor="#c0c0c0">6296/1461(682/149) </td><td bordercolor="#c0c0c0">3687/716(376/73) </td><td bordercolor="#c0c0c0">F=-46/R=-23 </td><td bordercolor="#c0c0c0">F(L=170)/R(L=200) </td><td bordercolor="#c0c0c0">With helper spring for rear. </td></tr></tbody><tfoot></tfoot></table>

Bishop92T

12-05-2003, 10:41 AM

http://www.mkiiitech.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=120

http://www.mkiiitech.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=97

ma71supraturbo

12-05-2003, 11:01 AM

fantastic, thanks!

MelloBoy

12-05-2003, 12:57 PM

Quantum Racing Suspension
Front: completely customizable w/ NOVA engineering springs
Rear: completely customizable w/ NOVA engineering springs

melloboy

ma71supraturbo

12-07-2003, 03:26 PM

Progress so far. If you have any of the above and have info (whether you have more or less # of adjustments, if you happened to have weighed it, etc) please let me know.

<Table border align=center cellpadding=4 width=1000><TR><Th>Model</th><Th colspan="2">Ride Height Range Vs Stock (in)</th><Th>Spring Rate lbs/in</th><Th colspan="2">Spring Rate Range (lbs/in)</th><Th># of Damper Adjust.</th><Th>Upper Pillow -ball</th><Th>Elec Adjust</th><Th>Price USD</th></tr><TR><th>&nbsp</th><th>Front</th><th>Rear</th><th>F / R</th><Th>Front</th><th>Rear</th><th>F / R</th><th>&nbsp</th><th>&nbsp</th><th>&nbsp</th></tr><TR align=center><TD>Cusco Comp-S</td><TD>-1.2 / -2.4</td><TD>-0.6 / -2.0</td><TD>896 / 560</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>None</td><TD>Opt</td><TD>No</td><TD>$1350*</td></tr><TR align=center><TD>Cusco Zero-1</td><TD>-0.2 / -2.7</td><TD>0 / -2.4</td><TD>1008 / 616</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>None</td><TD>Opt</td><TD>No</td><TD>$1375*</td></tr><TR align=center><TD>Cusco Zero-2</td><TD>-0.2 / -2.7</td><TD>0 / -2.4</td><TD>1008 / 616</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>5</td><TD>Yes</td><TD>No</td><TD>$2000</td></tr><TR align=center><TD>JIC FLT-2</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>672 / 504</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>None</td><TD>Yes</td><TD>No</td><TD>$1575</td></tr><TR align=center><TD>JIC FLT-A2</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>784 / 560</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>15 / 15</td><TD>Yes</td><TD>No</td><TD>$1675</td></tr><TR align=center><TD>JIC SF-1</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>672 / 504</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>None</td><TD>Yes</td><TD>No</td><TD>$1275</td></tr><TR align=center><TD>HKS Hypermax II</td><TD>-1.9</td><TD>-1.1</td><TD>784 / 336</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>30 / 30</td><TD>Yes</td><TD>No</td><TD>$1750</td></tr><TR align=center><TD>TEIN FLEX</td><TD>+0.4 / -3.7</td><TD>-0.4 / -2.7</td><TD>672 / 336</td><TD>+224 / -112</td><TD>+112 / -112</td><TD>16 / 16</td><TD>Yes</td><TD>Opt</td><TD>$1400</td></tr><TR align=center><TD>TEIN HA</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>672 / 336</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>16 / 16</td><TD>Opt</td><TD>Opt</td><TD>$1000</td></tr><TR align=center><TD>TEIN RA</td><TD>-0.5 / -2</td><TD>-1.6 / -1.9</td><TD>1008 / 560</td><TD>+112 / -112</td><TD>+112 / -112</td><TD>18 / 10</td><TD>Yes</td><TD>Opt#</td><TD>$1600</td></tr><TR align=center><TD>TEIN SS</td><TD>-1.1 / -2.9</td><TD>-0.5 / -2.4</td><TD>896 / 504</td><TD>+112 / -112</td><TD>+112 / -112</td><TD>16 / 16</td><TD>Opt</td><TD>Opt</td><TD>$950*</td></tr></table>
*Estimated price
#Requires a special actuator

HKS makes solid pillowball mounts for $240/pair ($480 total).
TEIN makes them for $160/pair

ma71supraturbo

12-07-2003, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by MelloBoy
Quantum Racing Suspension
Front: completely customizable w/ NOVA engineering springs
Rear: completely customizable w/ NOVA engineering springs

melloboy

Do you have any specs on them so I can add them to my sheet, or are they made to order?

ma71supraturbo

12-09-2003, 08:34 PM

Sway bars -- If any of you can fill in some of the blanks, please let me know. The percent stiffness are all based on the claim that Whitelines are 50% and 30% stiffer, but once BoostAddctn measures the stock bar I can recalculate them.

And my apologies for the odd chart set-up. I couldn't go left-to-right without having you scroll over, so you will have to follow each brand down...

<TABLE border Cellspacing="1" CELLPADDING="2" width=900><TR><Th>Brand</th><Th>Cusco</th><Th>S.T.</th><Th>Tanabe</th><Th>Whiteline</th><Th>Stock</th></tr><TR><Th>Material</th><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>Steel</td><TD>Chromoly</td><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>Steel</td></tr><TR><Th>Solid?</th><TD>Solid</td><TD>Solid</td><TD>Hollow</td><TD>Solid</td><TD>Hollow</td></tr><TR><Th>Adjustable?</th><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>2 Rear</td><TD>No</td><TD>3 Rear</td><TD>No</td></tr><TR><Th>Front Diameter OD (ID) [Solid Equivalent]</th><TD>[28.6mm]</td><TD>[28mm]</td><TD>30.4mm (20.4mm) [28.7mm]</td><TD>[30mm]</td><TD>[27.1mm]</td></tr><TR><Th>% Stiffer</th><TD>24%</td><TD>14%</td><TD>25%</td><TD>50%</td><TD>0%</td></tr><TR><Th>Rear Diameter OD (ID) [Solid Equivalent]</th><TD>[24.2mm]</td><TD>[24mm]</td><TD>25.4mm (12.6mm) [25.0mm]</td><TD>[22mm]</td><TD>[20.6mm]</td></tr><TR><Th>% Stiffer</th><TD>90%</td><TD>84%, 100%</td><TD>117%</td><TD>-13%, 30%, 84%</td><TD>0%</td></tr><TR><Th>Includes Bushings?</th><TD>&nbsp</td><TD>Yes</td><TD>Yes</td><TD>No</td><TD>No</td></tr><TR><Th>Part # f/r (set)</th><TD>183311A / 183311B</td><TD>50215 / 51205 (52215)</td><TD>TSB033F / TSB033R</td><TD>BTF39 / BTR70 BTR70Z (adjust)</td><TD>&nbsp</td></tr><TR><Th>Price (set)</th><TD>$710</td><TD>$221</td><TD>$345</td><TD>$270-285</td><TD>$140</td></tr></table>

ma71supraturbo

12-09-2003, 11:35 PM

Lowering Springs:

<table border><tr><th>Brand</th><th>Spring Type</th><th>Front Rate lb/in</th><th>Rear Rate lb/in</th><th>Lowering F / R</th><th>Price USD</th></tr><tr><td>Stock</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>461</td><td>215</td><td>0</td><td>&nbsp</td></tr><tr><td>B&G</td><td>Progressive</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>1.3"/1.0"</td><td>$190</td></tr><tr><td>Eibach</td><td>Progressive</td><td>343-628</td><td>126-257</td><td>1.5"/1.0"</td><td>$200</td></tr><tr><td>GAB</td><td>Progressive</td><td>307-475</td><td>146-218</td><td>1.5"</td><td>&nbsp</td></tr><tr><td>GReddy</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>1"</td><td>$325</td></tr><tr><td>H&R</td><td>Progressive</td><td>575 max</td><td>285 max</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>$235</td></tr><tr><td>Intrax</td><td>Progressive</td><td>700 max</td><td>220 max </td><td>1.5"</td><td>$230</td></tr><tr><td>RSR-R</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>1.5"</td><td>$250</td></tr><tr><td>RSR-S</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>&nbsp</td><td>$230</td></tr><tr><td>S.T.</td><td>Linear/Progressive</td><td>442</td><td>147-175</td><td>1.3"</td><td>$200</td></tr><tr><td>Tanabe</td><td>Progressive</td><td>442 max</td><td>207 max</td><td>1.3"/0.7"</td><td>$235</td></tr><tr><td>Tokico</td><td>Linear</td><td>395</td><td>198</td><td>1.0"</td><td>&nbsp</td></tr><tr><td>TRD</td><td>Progressive</td><td>670 max</td><td>280 max</td><td>1.0"</td><td>&nbsp</td></tr></table>

89+ stock rear springs are 16% stiffer than pre 89 cars.

For reviews see http://www.935motorsports.com/mk3suprasuspensionreviews.htm

Cz213

12-09-2003, 11:45 PM

what about Apexi shocks/springs?

ma71supraturbo

12-09-2003, 11:57 PM

I don't see any Apexi listings for A70 applications. If you have a link, let me know

ma71supraturbo

12-10-2003, 12:47 AM

thought this thread wouldn't be complete without a picture of a stock MK3 mid turn:

Yawgmoth

12-10-2003, 12:59 AM

hey ma71, is that turbo or n/a, with or without tems? good god...thats horrible!

ma71supraturbo

12-10-2003, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by Yawgmoth
hey ma71, is that turbo or n/a, with or without tems? good god...thats horrible!

Yeah. Now imagine if someone put on a set of super-stiff sway bars -- they would surely lift that inside front tire. Anyway, I'll get more into that stuff when I type up more of the subjective portion of the FAQ.

As for the car, it is one of the first 1986.5 Supra's tested in the USA (10/1986 by Road & Track). Judging by the fact that it is a CA car (old school dark blue plate/yellow letters) with headlight squirters, its safe to say it has the sport package (with TEMS). Here is the text that accompanied that picture:

Recapping a bit, Toyota's new Supra is really new, as in the body panels, the inline-6 enlarged to 3.0 liters and topped with a 4-valve head, upscale suspension with electronic modulation: the works.

The Supra is an excellent car, every bit as good as the test (R&T, May 1986) proclaimed it to be. Handling and steering were only two of the many facets praised in that review, but the drivers found the car remarkably clean and crisp, especially considering the Supra's added size.

The example used for that test, as the test said, was a pilot model, pre-production but supposedly exactly what the buying public would get.

In due course a production example of the Supra arrived on the parking lot. It wasn't there for a formal test, but all drivers are required to make notes about all cars, so the Supra's log contains all manner of nice things regarding the engine, looks, gearbox, etc.

The exception was that drivers who hadn't been in the tested pilot model thought the production car steered just fine. Drivers with earlier experience in the tested model, however, were disappointed. For verification, a second production Supra was borrowed. This second car was just as good as the first production car, but again, not as good as the pilot.

The secound one went through the standard handling tests, the slalom and skidpad, and turned in numbers nearly identical to those of the original pilot. Very odd, we mused.

But there was an answer. Before the final settings for the suspension were picked, somebody back at the home office second-guessed consultant Lotus. Shock damping was backed off a few clicks. This added to ride comfort but took away some of the crispness and precision the pilot version had with the handling set on Sport. In production form, the Sport and Normal settings are virtually identical.

Now then. On the tangible, measurable, repeatable hand, the production Supra handles as well as the test said. But, on the intangible, emotional hand, the Supra isn't as sporting now as it was when the test was done, and we'd be remiss if we didn't say so.

IdealSupra

12-10-2003, 01:16 AM

hey i just thought you should change your price no the eibachs....they be had on ebay basically whenever you want them from around 150-185 with about 20 bucks for shipping... so i would say a good average price would be about 190 total.

also when are you doing struts? im looking into getting some soon and would love to see your chart on that! :D

keep up the good work bro!

ma71supraturbo

12-10-2003, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by IdealSupra
also when are you doing struts? im looking into getting some soon and would love to see your chart on that! :D

keep up the good work bro!

Thanks, working on struts now, but they don't often include as much information. Should have a rough chart up within a day or two.

I'll change the Eiback price to $200. I basically rounded up $5-$10 on all of the prices I found from normal online retailers. I can't find anyone still selling GReddy, Tokico, or TRD springs though

upgradedsupra

12-10-2003, 02:19 AM

I have the Tein HA and the damening is 22 way adjustable =) Thought I would clarify that.

Duane

ma71supraturbo

12-10-2003, 02:22 AM

Originally posted by upgradedsupra
I have the Tein HA and the damening is 22 way adjustable =) Thought I would clarify that.

Duane

for both front and rear?

Thanks

SupraMK3

12-10-2003, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by ma71supraturbo
Yeah. Now imagine if someone put on a set of super-stiff sway bars -- they would surely lift that inside front tire. Anyway, I'll get more into that stuff when I type up more of the subjective portion of the FAQ.

Excellent point MA71... I have been trying to tell people this for years but nobody believes me. Sway bars are supposed to be a great mod for handling, and many people recommend them as the first to be done. They are a good first mod if you are looking for better handling on the street, however if you do any serious track racing without upgrading your shocks and springs first you run the risk of lifting those front tires. If that happens you suffer a major loss in overall grip.... and that aint good!

ma71supraturbo

12-10-2003, 04:06 PM

Thanks to trent for measuring the lever-arm of the two rear ST sway bar holes -- I know have estimated % stiffness numbers for both settings

Does anyone know if the Cusco bar is the same as the ST in terms of adjustability?

ma70ltd

02-10-2004, 03:36 PM

I'm not sure if you know this,
But all your tables have gone wack!! ;)

All I see is code!!

FredTurbo

02-10-2004, 04:31 PM

woahh!
nice bunch of html codes!:p

ma71supraturbo

02-10-2004, 06:26 PM

aw crap, I guess I don't have html permission in the FAQ...

ma71supraturbo

02-10-2004, 06:54 PM

fixed :)

outofstep

02-12-2004, 11:20 AM

? none of the tables are showing up now

ma71supraturbo

02-13-2004, 08:17 AM

yeah they took away html permissions altogether cause i guess its a security issue. I can't think of any other way to display the information, so I'll just see if someone feels like putting it on one of their webpages...

chevydude

02-19-2004, 10:07 PM

My freind has informed me that if I were to get Konis, that the the front strut tower assembly would need modification and drilling. Is that really so? I dont want to go through the hassle of all that, so he suggested the Tokico Illuminas instead. Still adjustable.

ma71supraturbo

02-19-2004, 10:29 PM

I have not heard that konis require modification to fit, but they reported cannot be adjusted on the car...

stonedworm

02-27-2004, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by ma71supraturbo
thought this thread wouldn't be complete without a picture of a stock MK3 mid turn:

Anyone know the exact differences in suspension from a 86.5 NA to a 91 T?

My 91T handles 10x better and the suspension is 100x stiffer than my 86.5 was. I can push on front end of my 91 and it wont move at all.

mk3smakemehappy

10-05-2004, 03:07 PM

if tems gives u sport/fag driving then how would a sup w/o tems drive? the sport way????

spipedong

03-07-2005, 04:50 PM

I've taken the HTML tables from previous posts and hosted them for anyone's viewing. It was helpful to me and I'd like to see others gain knowledge as well. If you have anything to add/change PM me and I'll update the table. Please note that I did not create these originally and I am not liable for the accuracy therein (Prices, rates, sizes, etc).

Coilover Table: http://ghettomods.net/coilovertable.html

Sway Bar Table: http://ghettomods.net/swaybartable.html

Lowering Spring Table: http://ghettomods.net/loweringspringtable.html

SMoLiK

04-20-2005, 08:36 PM

copy and paste the code into a text (*.txt) file... then rename the *.txt file to a *.html file... save it and reopen the file... you will see the tables just fine...

SMo'

supraguru05

09-09-2005, 02:48 PM

tables are gone ill host them if you dont want to anymore

HyRisk

10-18-2005, 03:00 PM

Can someone please host them. Thx

ImUrOBGYN

03-31-2006, 01:32 PM

Until I get a chance to host them, I can email the four charts that are located here as html to whoever needs them. Or at least until someone else feels it's worth it to host them.

Or here are some links but the pics are kinda small. Shouldn't be too bad and if you have a photo editor, you can resize them yourself.

HKS Coilover Info (http://groups.msn.com/ChristiansImUrOBGYNpicsandfiles/miscpics.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=143&lc=1033)

Coilover info (http://groups.msn.com/ChristiansImUrOBGYNpicsandfiles/miscpics.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=142)

Lowering Springs Info (http://groups.msn.com/ChristiansImUrOBGYNpicsandfiles/miscpics.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=144)

Swaybar Info (http://groups.msn.com/ChristiansImUrOBGYNpicsandfiles/miscpics.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=145)

prsrcokr

05-03-2006, 08:10 PM

I'd love to hear some feedback on the various swaybars, anyone tried a few of them and have comparisons?
I'm considering switching out my ST front for a stiffer bar.