e-Manage in MK3 7m..INSTALLED! :)

[Bishop92T]

It has now been confirmed this unit will work completely with the 7mgte and 7mge ECU's. GReddy doesn't officially support the 7m e-Manage so I made up a installation chart for anyone else looking to maximize their piggy-backs.

http://www.ma70.com/bishop92t/pics/emanagediagram.jpg

Quick run down: Unit can control fuel like the S-AFC and S-AFR by modifying the AFM signal the ECU gets. This is charted by RPM and throttle position. S-AFC only has hi/lo and S-AFR only has one map, the e-Manage can control fuel throughout the throttle position (16x16). e-Manage can also control injectors directly like the PFC F-CON, but unlike the FCON it is fully adjustable. It uses those two features to allow you to safely cap FCO while still adding more fuel by controlling the injectors directly. Since it has it's own MAP sensor it always knows how much air you are getting.

It can also control timing advance or retard and it's based on RPM and pressure. So you can kick up the timing until boost hits and then let the stock ECU handle timing - much safer then moving the base timing on the CPS. e-Manage can datalog every input it has including it's own MAP sensor and display all the info in realtime. It has an injector compensator built in - just type in what injectors were stock and what you are running now and the car will idle correctly, and it can control 2 additional injectors. e-Manage can also compensate for BOV's venting to atmosphere.

The interface is very easy and quick to use. I was able to setup a test fuel map in half the time it took me on my S-AFR (S-AFC took even longer then S-AFR). The results are instant, the second you change a setting you can hear the difference in the car and see gauges react.

[ma71supraturbo]

damn sounds nice. Why doesn't Greddy offer 7m support?

[Bishop92T]

I don't think GReddy wanted to bother with the 7M so they didn't road test it. There's nothing on the 7M that isn't supported. KV AFM is supported, 3.3v TPS is supported, low impedance injectors are supported, etc.

[SupraTrbo]

how much does and e-manage unit run?

[Parad0x]

why was this only revealed now? :(

[Bishop92T]

The main unit runs about $300. By itself it does almost nothing, not even worth mentioning. With the $120 support tool it will interface with the laptop and give you AFM based fuel control. $35 ignition harness lets you control ignition, $35 injector harness lets you control injectors directly and control additional injectors. The map sensor and harness run about $150 and are needed for a few of the functions with ignition, FCO control, etc. It's nice that you can start out buying a piece at a time and still use the unit. You don't have to plop down $1200 all at once like the VPC was new.


Originally posted by Parad0x
why was this only revealed now? :(

Just got the unit in yesterday and installed it today. Wasn't 100% sure it was going to work in the MK3 so didn't want to say anything about it yet.

[Interex_87]

Sweet! Get some screen shots for us, Bishop.

[Da Kine Guy]

So this thing has the capability to replace our AFM with a MAP sensor? That would fix the atomosphere vented BOV problems wouldn't it? One of many problems I'm sure.

[Apocolypse]

Where did you pick it up at?

[Simba]

Sigh. So much for the claims of "It'll never work". More toys to buy. Grumble. :)

[Adam W]

I make that $640 with everything :D

What pressure does the MAP sensor read up to? Can it be used to write a WOT fuel map like you can with a Motec or AEM ECU, or is the air metering done by the AFM still and the MAP sensor fine tunes around the edges?

Full E-manage manual is here:

http://www.mkiv.com/tmp/emanage/emanage_manual/

[drjonez]

1. the MAP does NOT replace the AFM (though supposedly some MK4 guys and YSR have been able to do it? need more info.....)

2. the MAP sensor is used to setup the fuel/timing corrections, i.e. increase inj. duty X% @ Y MAP/throttle pos

from what it sounds like, the MAP is just a GM 3 bar.....have to confirm that......

GOOD WORK BISHOP!

EDIT: i do have the eman software (both versions) and hope to be cloning the cable fairly soon.....

[TD42T]

Do you have switch settings for a GE?

Marty

[Zach90Turbo]

Wicked cool. Nobody's mentioned it yet, but the new Profec E-01 boost controller can be used as a head unit for the E-manage. I don't know if it can control all the functions, I haven't done much research on it yet. Sounds like Greddy's gonna get some business.

[Adam W]

Are there full english language manuals available for all the add-on parts as well as the main box? (I guess I mean all the software etc . . . )

[drjonez]

TD- it shouldn't be hard many toyo 5V flapper AFMs are supported...

zach- you can control ALL eman functions via the profec E....not to mention datalogging and realtime display....

adam- yes. see that mkiv.com link already posted...

[GreaseMonkey]

So if i can use this on a 7m-ge. can i run boost on stock ecu + e-manage?

If so that would be Awsome. Mabey if we could figure out how to run the map without the flapper door. Thanks!

[drjonez]

you can do whatever you want, whether or not it will run reliably is up to your tuning skillz.....

[GreaseMonkey]

is there a way you can think of to either replace the flapper door with a KV or just run the map?

[drjonez]

what's wrong w/the flapper? you have the eman to alter all the signals.....

[turbotoy]

Originally posted by drjonez
what's wrong w/the flapper? you have the eman to alter all the signals.....

The typical problem with flapper door AFMs is they tend to rail out when used over there designed mass flow rate. In other words, you are flowing more mass through them, but the door is already all the way open. NOT good no matter what you have to play with the signal.

[drjonez]

1. tighten up the spring

2. you have control of injector duty vs. MAP/TP.....its not a big deal....

[paddlenbike]

THIS is why I joined SupraForums. Great work Bishop, I am anxious to hear more. :D

-Ken
1988 Supra Turbo

[ma71supraturbo]

So one could buy this with 550 injectors and accomplish the same thing as the Lexus/550/S-AFC combo (plus have more room to grow)? Seems like quite a deal. I've never really heard of e-manage though. Do most shops know how to tune it should one run into driveability issues?

[MelloYello]

Originally posted by paddlenbike
THIS is why I joined SupraForums. Great work Bishop, I am anxious to hear more. :D


My thoughts exactly. Thanks for sharing the info Bishop...

[Bishop92T]

Thanks everyone. Anyone going to the TX2K3 meet will be able to see at least one e-Manage installed in a MK3 :)

Dr J stepping up to the plate :P The MAP sensor is good for 3 bar, I don't know if it's a GM or not but it's good for ungodly amounts of boost.

The guys removing their AFM's are using hotwire AFM's because it is the same scale as the MAP sensor. You just have to play with the e-Manage software to trick the ECU. Dis-similar signals will not work, aka KV AFM. Flapper door (aka 7mge) should be able to switch to using the GReddy MAP sensor. If anyone knows how to convert a 0-5v scale to a frequency speak up, we could find a way to remove the AFM :)

TD42T the pinouts on the 7mge ECU are different, finding out the switches settings is easy the "hard part" will be wiring it up. But it shouldn't be too hard, I wired an S-AFR up to my N/A even though HKS said it wouldn't work. Buy a unit and I will help you get it running. I don't have a N/A wiring diagram anymore.

Interex_87 there are quite a few screenshots on the MKIV site (http://www.mkiv.com/tmp/emanage/) As far as the software goes, there's no difference b/w the way it looks on a MK3 or a MK4 or any car for that matter.

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by ma71supraturbo
So one could buy this with 550 injectors and accomplish the same thing as the Lexus/550/S-AFC combo (plus have more room to grow)? Seems like quite a deal. I've never really heard of e-manage though. Do most shops know how to tune it should one run into driveability issues?

Yes, excepting that you would still have the flow restriction of the stock AFM. If you were sticking on or under 400hp you could actually get the Lexus and e-Manage, use the e-Manage to put more fuel in post ECU so you maintain your high FCO and good A/F ratio.

I doubt most shops even know what it is yet, but tuning it is super easy. If the shop can tune a S-AFR or S-AFC they can tune the e-Manage. Just make sure they don't go crazy on ignition advance :P

[xscurry]

Originally posted by Bishop92T
Anyone going to the TX2K3 meet will be able to see at least one e-Manage installed in a MK3 :)


Cool. Nice work. :bigthumb:

[turbotoy]

Originally posted by Bishop92T
If anyone knows how to convert a 0-5v scale to a frequency speak up, we could find a way to remove the AFM :)




There are lots of Voltage to Frequency Converter (VFC) chips out there, the problem is, I don't believe you can use a straight linear interpolation. If you used an embedded controller that used a lookup table, it could be done, but then you introduce a host of other problems. It may be worth a shot breadboarding a circuit with a VFC just to try though, you may be able to compensate for the nonlinearity. I need to look into it more....

[projectsupra]

cool learn something new everyday, thanks everybody:D

[drjonez]

turbotoy- certainly an excellent point.....but i highly doubt its simply a linear relationship.....though if we could figure it out it would be nice.....

[TD42T]

I got the S-AFC working on my N/A.
I used 1GGTE switch settings to get it working so I guess the Emange would be similar?

Might be a month or so away but I'll take you up on the offer of help when I get around to it.

Thanks

marty

[Bishop92T]

drjonez and turbotoy: the e-Manage can data log all of it's inputs including KV freq and MAP sensor voltage. I can get a log printout of them if you think it will help determine the exact nature of the KV output.

TD42T if the 1ggte worked for you on the S-AFC it will probably work with the e-Manage, I actually used the MR2 settings + 6 cylinders in setting up my S-AFR. Just LMK when you get it and I will be glad to help. Then I can update the chart for other 7mge ECU owners.

[turbotoy]

Here's the problem Bishop... You need a way to plot the Karmann frequency as a function of volumetric flow rate, velocity, mass flow rate, something like that.... I was going to try to do this when I had access to a wind tunnel, but never got to it. Once you have that data, you can work backwards using the transfer function for a hotwire mass air sensor (a lot of people have figured this out) to come up with a conversion. I talked with an aero prof a while about this, he assured me the output wasn't going to be linear. It could be modeled, but he assured me that would make an excellent doctoral project for me :)

[turbotoy]

DUH - it just came to me.... Too simple....

Mount a hotwire MAF in series with the stock AFM, and datalog both of those outputs as a function of RPM. All the info you need to do the conversion right there.... Unfortunatly, I can't do it easily on my car (4" turbo inlet), but someone else probably could.

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by turbotoy
DUH - it just came to me.... Too simple....

Mount a hotwire MAF in series with the stock AFM, and datalog both of those outputs as a function of RPM. All the info you need to do the conversion right there.... Unfortunatly, I can't do it easily on my car (4" turbo inlet), but someone else probably could.

Well I have two minor problems with actually doing that. I don't have a hotwire AFM lying around and I have no way to log the hotwire. Hmm, well I do have access to an ultra-accurate voltmeter that can datalog. I would just have to lay the map over the e-Manage map. All that leaves then is the hotwire AFM.

Question though, how will you turn the 0-5v signal of the hotwire into an estimate of air traveling through?

[turbotoy]

Originally posted by Bishop92T


Question though, how will you turn the 0-5v signal of the hotwire into an estimate of air traveling through?

With the method I suggested, you don't need to. You know at the same RPM, the mass flow rate represented by each signal is the same, so you can equate them. You'll just get relative results - not absolute. Now, one thing being overlooked here is temperature compensation - I need to think about that a little more, but the VPC leaves a lot to be desired in this area anyway...

[X-man]

I have a stupid question. Why not install a GM map sensor and monitor voltage on it? This would be easier as far as space is concerned to do wouldn't it?

[X-man]

You might be able to plot a useful voltage map off of one that reads positive pressure.

[toypro]

You said it can control injectors and extra injectors. You mentioned injector harnesses, is this only for the extra injectors or is this for your normal injectors? Will you wire the injectors straigt into the emanage? Can you choose to run high or low impedance injectors as your main injectors?

[drjonez]

toy- the inj harness allows you to directly alter inj duty (vs. just AFM correction) and add additional injectors. both high/low imp are supported....

[General TJI]

Sweet Topic !!!!!

BUT

I thought the HKS VPC replaces or removes the AFM completely.. and thats why its so great.. gets rid of the restriction and (many other good reasons we all know about)...

But this setup still uses it.. I guess if you have a Lexus AFM there isn't enough restriction to worry about ? (depending on power level too)

[drjonez]

i'm not sure how much info you people need- i put 460rwhp thru the lex (more, but i never verefied that....) and eric v. did 622. soooo, i'd say the lex afm is NOT a restriction until you reach insane ammounts of power.

[adjuster]

I still think two stock AFM's with 720's would be a hot ticket.
One of the meters is just a "dummy" with no wires attached. It just flows the same as the meter providing the reading to the ECU, and since there is about 2x the fuel available, it should work. The emanage would be excellent to fine tune the system.
Anyone ever seen this done before?
I'm just trying to do this on the cheap as 150 for the Lexus meter sucks, when I can get a smaller stock one for 50.
The injectors are more, but they have more potential for future mods. Would the fuel cut be raised with this design?
What do you guys think?
Thanks.

[drjonez]

what you are talking about is just like running a bypass filter- more unmetered air (the basic priniciple behind the lex AFM). this WILL make the car run far more lean (your general statement of "there is about 2x the fuel available" is completely false) and can be quite dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. if you are on the cheap wagon, you might as well just get a k&n breather filter ($10) and slap it on the accordian hose and hope for the best.....i run this setup and it worx well. YMMV.

[General TJI]

Sounds Interesting Adjuster...

... I don't know what else to say... I think you should try it.. but those injectors arn't cheap. Although, if you idea fails- I'm sure you could sell them no prob.

As long as your careful. And have some sort of A?F Computer I bet you have a pretty good chance of making it work ....

.. Oh and BTW,


I thought the HKS VPC replaces / removes the AFM completely

Was I right about that part ?

[drjonez]

yeeep the VPC converts the MKIII to a speed/density style air metering system.

[ma71supraturbo]

Originally posted by drjonez
you might as well just get a k&n breather filter ($10) and slap it on the accordian hose and hope for the best.....i run this setup and it worx well. YMMV.

Why not throw on a motorcycle throttle body between the accordian hose and the breather -- you can adjust the idle settings of that throttle body to allow how much air in you want, raising fuel cut the desired amount (and compensating for the extra air with an increase in fuel pressure)

[suprasteve]

Originally posted by drjonez
yeeep the VPC converts the MKIII to a speed/density style air metering system.
ok i am confused i thought the vpc used a map sensor
yes i know i have had tooo much to drink:D

[drjonez]

Originally posted by ma71supraturbo


Why not throw on a motorcycle throttle body between the accordian hose and the breather -- you can adjust the idle settings of that throttle body to allow how much air in you want, raising fuel cut the desired amount (and compensating for the extra air with an increase in fuel pressure)

that'll work too, whatever floats your boat....just make sure you have a filter on it. ;)

[drjonez]

Originally posted by suprasteve

ok i am confused i thought the vpc used a map sensor
yes i know i have had tooo much to drink:D

speed/density = MAP sensor.

best to not post when drunk....only makes you look foolish.

[projectsupra]

i'm still learning so bear with me here, is this system a better solution than going with a engine manegment system like the FJO wideband one that i can use on a palm pilot? the one some of the mk4 guys go with:confused:

[bjacques]

FJO wideband isn't an engine management system. It's a very accurate air fuel ratio sensor, that is an aid in tuning any sort of EMS. By EMS I mean anything from a SAFC / SAFR / VPC / FCON to a fully programmable fuel injection system like a Motec / Haltech / AEM EMS etc.

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by turbotoy
With the method I suggested, you don't need to. You know at the same RPM, the mass flow rate represented by each signal is the same, so you can equate them. You'll just get relative results - not absolute. Now, one thing being overlooked here is temperature compensation - I need to think about that a little more, but the VPC leaves a lot to be desired in this area anyway...

Ok, but that sounds like the same results we can have comparing the GReddy MAP sensor (rumored to be a GM part) vs the KV AFM. Both of those already can be logged vs RPM on the same map, super easy to get.
For the temperature won't that not really matter too much once the car warms up? The turbo heats up the air regardless of what temperature it is outside, I'm sure the manifold temperature does change but it probably doesn't vary as much as outside temperature. We do get some wild temperature swings in the winter here, it's typically 70-80F in the day and in the 30-40's at night, I can see how the signals change in the different temperatures.

FJO does make a EMS standalone but that should be classified with other standalones from Motec, AEM, etc. There is nothing that compares to the e-Manage as far as piggy-backs go. On certain systems the e-Manage can remove the AFM like VPC, controls timing better then S-ITC, controls fuel better then FCON and tricks the AFM output better then S-AFR/S-AFC.

[SuprAng]

time to scour ebay for some emanage systems :D ... great work bishop

[turbotoy]

Originally posted by Bishop92T


Ok, but that sounds like the same results we can have comparing the GReddy MAP sensor (rumored to be a GM part) vs the KV AFM. Both of those already can be logged vs RPM on the same map, super easy to get.



It won't work - the signals do not represent the same thing. Speed-Density alogrithms use engine speed and MAP to determine mass flow rate - the AFM outputs mass flow rate directly (it actually outputs a signal proportional to velocity, but that's another issue). Think of it this way if it helps... You could record a MAP signal that is totally constant from 4-7K RPM if boost pressure stays the same. The actual mass flow rate is VERY different from 4-7K.

[projectsupra]

thanks for helping me out, so which would give more flexability in tuning, more options, and would be more hassle free, a standalone or a piggyback EMS?

[EngMkiii]

In reading some info on a Emanage site the info indicated that the system would manage fuel injector duty cycle +/- 20% to stock is this a mispost? This would limit the effectiveness.

[QWIKSTRIKE]

What does the overall system cost? Also is it better than going haltec f10-8 and optional map sensor!

[elusivesuprat]

alright lets say i bought an e-manage...would i still need a fpr(fuel pressure regulator)?

[Bishop92T]

In reading some info on a Emanage site the info indicated that the system would manage fuel injector duty cycle +/- 20% to stock is this a mispost? This would limit the effectiveness.

It only changes the AFM output +/- 20%, but you can further trick it by using the injector compensator function. It can change injector duty cycle to whatever you want, up to 100% duty cycle (anything over 80% is dumb IMO). Does this reduce useability, that's a case by case basis. Say you need to pull out 20-30% fuel throughout the RPM band, well you tell the injector compensator you were running XXXcc injector and now you're running XXX+20%, it will take out 20% throughout the RPM band. Then you can use it's AFM signal change to pull out the extra 0-10%. Or, you can pull out 20-30% duty cycle directly! There is much more adjustability on the e-Manage then any other piggyback fuel computer.


alright lets say i bought an e-manage...would i still need a fpr(fuel pressure regulator)?

That is up to you. If you were trying to get the most out of your 440's then yes you would need more fuel pressure. If you just need more fuel then no.


thanks for helping me out, so which would give more flexability in tuning, more options, and would be more hassle free, a standalone or a piggyback EMS?

Uhh, standalone is ALWAYS more flexible and more tuning. But it's a HUGE hassle and more expensive. Piggybacks always do less but are much easier to tune.

QWIKSTRIKE: http://www.mkiv.com/tmp/emanage/

[Enraged]

standalone might not be as much of a hassle if the AEM comes out for the MKIII the way it looks....

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by Enraged
standalone might not be as much of a hassle if the AEM comes out for the MKIII the way it looks....

Well according to some of the MK4 guys the AEM is still a big hassle. They only give you a very basic base map, there's just no way for AEM to predict maps for every variation.

[ZaZZn]

Edited... After rereading.. I know i'm sleepy and I just deleted the garbage i typed.

If you guys are able to figure out about using the greddy map sensor I will go the Emanage route for sure. I'm fully convinced the only problem is my old shitty laptop doesn't have USB... I guess time to get a new(er) one! I'm sure I could bust out a full machine since at one time I was planning to put a while machine in the trunk to play mp3s.

I'm sure I could make a machine based on a BABY atx system with a cheepo duron or something and hook in to usb directly. hrmmmmmmmm hrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............

I'm sure that if someone really wanted to and was good at programming they could make the PC do all of these functions of the Emanage via a wire harness that attaches to the ECU and software based mods where done... We'd all just have to make sure we wern't running windows or next think you know you're car died on you due to a system crash..hahah.........


Anyhow back on topic.. Bishop I'm wondering, #1 can you block or stop FCO with the Emanage by a setting or do you still have to fool the ECU? Also, when you say 16x16 for fuel adjustments what exactly do you mean? 16 maps and 16 tuning points? How can you adjust the points? Only by laptop or is it set off like the S-AFC by throttle position?
As for ignition what do you mean by letting stock ecu take over?
Set timing to 15 deg until 2500 then let stock ecu take over and bring it down to whatever?

When you talk about support tool? Is this the Emanage software? Or is it a peice of hardware that is needed to hook up to a laptop?

[aljordan]

Originally posted by elusivesuprat
alright lets say i bought an e-manage...would i still need a fpr(fuel pressure regulator)?

Depends. Are you going to run big boost and run 720 injectors with dual pumps?

If you're not going all out, then you won't need to. People can, and do, make good power on the stock unit. People replace them as more of a problem solver, or as a prevention for future problems. For instance, some people have found that running a high output pump will outflow the regulator, thus having wacky fuel pressures. Installing an FPR will solve this.

[2JZ_MA70]

Great work... But yet another piggy back....

Why dont you just the the AEM when it comes out in a mont and control what ever you want and have multiple fuel, ignition, boost maps and control whatever you want...

[2JZ_MA70]

Originally posted by Bishop92T


Well according to some of the MK4 guys the AEM is still a big hassle. They only give you a very basic base map, there's just no way for AEM to predict maps for every variation.

I really want to hear which AEM guys have the big hasles because all the bugs get worked out within days and even hours...

Why cant we look at the guys that acctualy put some effort and get hte cars runing right... Why does it aways come down to the few that dont know how to tune!!!

[ZaZZn]

Yes another *great* piggy back.. For the price of a S-AFC you can have much more done. I like that idea.

How much is the AEM suposed to be?

[2JZ_MA70]

From what I have read it is way too much hasle and with the extra money you will spend to have the AFM removed .... =?

Im sorry not for me =) I got my AEM working great and it was for just over $1200 =) I dont also have to upgrade injectors and all that crap.... =) the 440 cc are good for 450 hp and with the tuch of some N2O/Methanol =) who knows....

Can the Emanage control bost? Can the emanage do knock contol and have a specific engine noise table not the generic one in the Toyota ECU? Traction contol? Launch control... Have the option to tun your Speed density or the Karman Vortex or any other frequency or 0-5V airflow meter... any other sensor with the exeption of the CPS....????

it is a good Idea if you dont want to or dont know how to tune engine... after all it comes out the same when you add boost controler in the equation... $500 for the EBC and $600 for the Emanage (including sensors and options) ?

if you dont have a laptop or cant access one go for it though..

[drjonez]

its this simple: the AEM costs a ton and isn't all its cracked up to be. for day to day driving, you CANNOT beat the stock ECU. the eman will allow you to retain the stock ECU for driveability's sake and alter it for more power.

as for the statement about the "generic knock table", that is COMPLETELY false. the toyo ECU is specifically tuned to the 7M and its knock frequencies.....if anything you should be suspect of any other standalone's knock feedback....

to clear up a few things:

1. to access all "good" functions of the eman, you NEED a laptop

2. the laptop connection is serial, NOT USB (though the eman side is a just a USB connector because they are cheap).

[QWIKSTRIKE]

Thanks for the answer Bish, However I have one last question!
Did you completely scrap the afr? Also Dr J IF what you say about the stock ecu is correct then a Haltec with its new windows software 650.00, and a 3bar optional map that haltec supplies for 155.00 and stock ecu is also a good equation yes? I have the HKS AFR, However the EManage looks very promising. I was looking at your website for this update Bish when you first posted this info. Again Thanks for your helping me in the past, the present and future!:cool: ;) When I talking Haltec Im talking about the fuel management F10-8 unit only DR. J inconjunction with the stock ecu mangaging the other aspcts such as timing ect.,ect.

[drjonez]

in theory, the eman should be the best of both worlds (save the lack of ability to ditch the AFM). i don't have mine yet, so i can't comment ......

[2JZ_MA70]

Originally posted by drjonez
its this simple: the AEM costs a ton and isn't all its cracked up to be. for day to day driving, you CANNOT beat the stock ECU. the eman will allow you to retain the stock ECU for driveability's sake and alter it for more power.

as for the statement about the "generic knock table", that is COMPLETELY false. the toyo ECU is specifically tuned to the 7M and its knock frequencies.....if anything you should be suspect of any other standalone's knock feedback....

to clear up a few things:

1. to access all "good" functions of the eman, you NEED a laptop

2. the laptop connection is serial, NOT USB (though the eman side is a just a USB connector because they are cheap).

Aggain..

#1 if you know how to tune you will retain the stock driveability! it will be acctualy better because you can lean it out at cruise and get much better MPG...

#2 The knock noise table is setup for average 7M engine and that is far off from modified 100K motor... The noise will also vary from engine to engine... I belive Toyota setup the table way too high to prevent false knocking with older engines. When I sad it is generic it was because toyota doenst program the ECU's for each specific engine... they are mass produced. The AEM will give you much better cylinder selective knock conttol that can be contoled better than with teh stock ECU. You can retad timing or richen the cylinder and much more.

#3 if you would use laptop make sure you have serial port because most of the new computers doesnt have it. =)


AEM can do a cylinder selective trim and fire the injectors in sequential mode to give beter atomization of the fuel.

Im not braging about what AEM can and cant do...... I dont care if you want to go with piggy backs or anything else...

I think the Piggybacks leave much to be desired... no matter how advanced they are they still rely on the stock ECU. Come on, the Toyo ECU might have been good 20 years ago. but today it plain old sucks... =).. AEM has come around and gave you the ability to have full control over your car and much more...

[supra87t3/t4]

I agree with 2JZ_MA70, The AEM has the functionality to outperform every aspect of the stock ECU. This is something that no other standalone has even been able to do. The downfall is that it is up to your tuning ability to make it happen. AEM can't afford to spend months tuning the basemap for our cars, I think that what they do give out is excellent and that with the AEM in the hands of a few good tuners in the MKIII community maps will eventually become publically available that rival stock drivability. The AEM is not for everyone, it is VERY complicated, for some of those people the emanage will be a good solution. It is far above any of the old piggybacks. I'm still gonna wait and see how well it works in the real world. I know the 3SGTE guys are hating it big time.

GLEN

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by 2JZ_MA70 Aggain..

#1 if you know how to tune you will retain the stock driveability! it will be acctualy better because you can lean it out at cruise and get much better MPG...

#2 The knock noise table is setup for average 7M engine and that is far off from modified 100K motor... The noise will also vary from engine to engine... I belive Toyota setup the table way too high to prevent false knocking with older engines. When I sad it is generic it was because toyota doenst program the ECU's for each specific engine... they are mass produced. The AEM will give you much better cylinder selective knock conttol that can be contoled better than with teh stock ECU. You can retad timing or richen the cylinder and much more.

#3 if you would use laptop make sure you have serial port because most of the new computers doesnt have it. =)

AEM can do a cylinder selective trim and fire the injectors in sequential mode to give beter atomization of the fuel.

Im not braging about what AEM can and cant do...... I dont care if you want to go with piggy backs or anything else...

I think the Piggybacks leave much to be desired... no matter how advanced they are they still rely on the stock ECU. Come on, the Toyo ECU might have been good 20 years ago. but today it plain old sucks... =).. AEM has come around and gave you the ability to have full control over your car and much more...

Dude, please don't hijack my thread. You have already decided you want a standalone, the rest of us don't want or need the hassle. There's no way you can compare standalone to a piggyback, it's apples and oranges. EVERYBODY knows the AEM is better, it's also TWICE THE PRICE and much much more hassle. If you want to continue a AEM discussion please do so through private MSG or make a AEM thread, I'll be happy to discuss it in the new thread.

Oh, and you can get a serial to USB convertor for use with newer computers, GReddy even recommends it.

QWIKSTRIKE: I guess you mean my S-AFR, yes there is absolutely no need for it so it is going to be sold.


Anyhow back on topic.. Bishop I'm wondering, #1 can you block or stop FCO with the Emanage by a setting or do you still have to fool the ECU? Also, when you say 16x16 for fuel adjustments what exactly do you mean? 16 maps and 16 tuning points? How can you adjust the points? Only by laptop or is it set off like the S-AFC by throttle position?
As for ignition what do you mean by letting stock ecu take over?
Set timing to 15 deg until 2500 then let stock ecu take over and bring it down to whatever?

When you talk about support tool? Is this the Emanage software? Or is it a peice of hardware that is needed to hook up to a laptop?

ZaZZn2002, Yes it even had a AFM clamp built into it - same thing the FCD does, but since it can control injectors directly it can continue adding fuel safely. 16x16 means you have 16rpm points (any that you chose) and 16 throttle position points (also selectable). So at 50% throttle you have 16 rpm points in which you can alter fuel. Like Dr J said, it's all laptop adjustable. The Profec E-01 (not officially in the states yet) is a boost controller which will also have full control over the e-Manage. However you will be much better using a laptop. Any laptop that can run win95 or better should work however you need a 266mhz min to view realtime stats (highly recommended).

It controls ignition alot like it controls fuel. It only supplements what the stock ECU is already doing. So you basically add or subtract ignition (in one degree increments) based on vacuum and boost. You can use this to add 4 degrees timing during off-boost to make the car have more pickup but once boost hits you can have the e-Manage zero out so it basically lets the ECU control timing. This is much safer then changing your base timing. And unlike the A'PEXi S-ITC (RPM based), you don't have to worry about it increasing timing while under boost.

The e-Manage support tool consists of a USB to serial cable, software on a CD, and a manual. It is damn expensive, but considering the main unit is practically useless without it makes it a necessity IMO. Not sure exactly how the Profec E-01 controls the e-Manage but I do know with a laptop you can have multiple maps stored. So you could have an economy map where the car runs lean and doesn't have any timing advance so you can run cheaper gas, you could have your all-out power map, etc.

[drjonez]

Originally posted by 2JZ_MA70

...
AEM can do a cylinder selective trim and fire the injectors in sequential mode to give beter atomization of the fuel...


heh. sequential injection has NOTHING to do w/atomization.....has everything to do w/getting rid of the waste fire of the stock ECU (but you'll have to rewire the injectors to do so).

the AEM isn't THAT good- it cannot do sequential ignition on anything w/more than 5 cyl......

[2JZ_MA70]

Ok , I sorry I dont mean to bash on your idea... It is great work and it is awesome when someone figures out somthing new for the Supra...

I am just warning people that cheaper isnt aways better and the piggy-backs leave A LOT to be desired... proper tuning gives more power and dependability as everyone knows... piggy-backs can not give the same performance...

The piggy backs modify signals that are vital to the way the engine runs and a lot could happen if somthing goes wrong or the tuning is incorect.. The way the engine runs is complicated enough as it is. Modifing sygnals just makes it even worce...



DR... First:

Sequential injection has a lot to do with atomization and it is the main reason AEM are moving to it... YOu think that they would just put more injector drivers for the hell of it?... When you fire the injector just after the point of oppening the air is already moving towards the combustion chamber and that air stream caries the fuel better. When you BACH fire the injectors: first you dont have cylinder selective control over fuel air mixture and second the fuel stays suspended for a moment that causes it to drop out... especialy on a cold engine...

Second: Waiste Spark is sufficient of firing the A/F mixture. As SP has proven they made well over 1000HP with waiste fire.... I dont know what the big deal with COP is?

[drjonez]

please start another thread.....no more hijacking....

[Bishop92T]

Just thought I'd post an example which might make things more clear. This is the 16x16 injector control map:

http://www.mkiv.com/tmp/emanage/emanage_software_manual/screen/2.jpg

The rest of the screenshots on MKIV.com and GReddy's website pretty much suck, I will get some better screenshots of mine up soon.

[Shawndude]

Just wanted to say "great work" Bishop92T and others, that are contributing to this interesting thread.

I have nothing to offer on this topic, but wanted to express my thanks for providing the information to us.

:bigthumb:

Cheers.........Sdude.

[SPAM]

There is no lack of ability to ditch the AFM it's just that at the time being you need to replace it with something else...

A decent upgrade used other cars (including the GTR) and an idea to think about is the Z32 MAF. A simple change in voltage settings on the E-Manage should be all that is needed to adapt.
Tomei makes an adapter harness to use the Z32 MAF on SR20 harnesses and could be an option if anyone would like to try a 7M/E-Manage/Z32 MAF combo


Originally posted by drjonez
in theory, the eman should be the best of both worlds (save the lack of ability to ditch the AFM). i don't have mine yet, so i can't comment ......
http://www.rhvariations.com/projectsilvia/%7Eimages/s13_vs_z32_01.JPG

[ZaZZn]

Originally posted by Bishop92T

ZaZZn2002, Yes it even had a AFM clamp built into it - same thing the FCD does, but since it can control injectors directly it can continue adding fuel safely. 16x16 means you have 16rpm points (any that you chose) and 16 throttle position points (also selectable). So at 50% throttle you have 16 rpm points in which you can alter fuel. Like Dr J said, it's all laptop adjustable. The Profec E-01 (not officially in the states yet) is a boost controller which will also have full control over the e-Manage. However you will be much better using a laptop. Any laptop that can run win95 or better should work however you need a 266mhz min to view realtime stats (highly recommended).

It controls ignition alot like it controls fuel. It only supplements what the stock ECU is already doing. So you basically add or subtract ignition (in one degree increments) based on vacuum and boost. You can use this to add 4 degrees timing during off-boost to make the car have more pickup but once boost hits you can have the e-Manage zero out so it basically lets the ECU control timing. This is much safer then changing your base timing. And unlike the A'PEXi S-ITC (RPM based), you don't have to worry about it increasing timing while under boost.

The e-Manage support tool consists of a USB to serial cable, software on a CD, and a manual. It is damn expensive, but considering the main unit is practically useless without it makes it a necessity IMO. Not sure exactly how the Profec E-01 controls the e-Manage but I do know with a laptop you can have multiple maps stored. So you could have an economy map where the car runs lean and doesn't have any timing advance so you can run cheaper gas, you could have your all-out power map, etc.

Wow... I really really like what I'm hearing about Emanage.. One thing I'm a little sketchy on after this part is do you mean the Profec E-01 is a piggy back to Emanage meaning Emanage can control boost via the laptop?

My Laptop is only a P133 (old old old) with win 95 and 48 megs of ram so I guess it's not really up to task but we'll see I'm pretty much sold.. I was going to go back to a AFC to mess around with unmetered air but now I'll use the Emanage to do this!

As for the CD I believe DR J said he had the software maybe we could get someone put it in to a ISO image or bin and throw it on kazza or hosted somewhere since 100+ for that software (that should be included with price and wire is a bit steep)

[drjonez]

Originally posted by SPAM
[B]There is no lack of ability to ditch the AFM it's just that at the time being you need to replace it with something else...

A decent upgrade used other cars (including the GTR) and an idea to think about is the Z32 MAF. A simple change in voltage settings on the E-Manage should be all that is needed to adapt.
Tomei makes an adapter harness to use the Z32 MAF on SR20 harnesses and could be an option if anyone would like to try a 7M/E-Manage/Z32 MAF combo


a great idea, but it won't work. the z32 MAF is a hotwire, the MKIII uses karmen votex. i don't think (but am not positive) the eman will convert between the two. remember the ECU is expecting a KV freq, not a staight HW voltage.....

[drjonez]

Originally posted by ZaZZn2002


Wow... I really really like what I'm hearing about Emanage.. One thing I'm a little sketchy on after this part is do you mean the Profec E-01 is a piggy back to Emanage meaning Emanage can control boost via the laptop?


the profec e is greddy's new EBC. it controls boost, the eman cannot. the e can also control ALL of the eman's functions and datalog.....


Originally posted by ZaZZn2002

My Laptop is only a P133 (old old old) with win 95 and 48 megs of ram so I guess it's not really up to task but we'll see I'm pretty much sold.. I was going to go back to a AFC to mess around with unmetered air but now I'll use the Emanage to do this!


your laptop should work fine, you just won't be able to display things realtime.


Originally posted by ZaZZn2002

As for the CD I believe DR J said he had the software maybe we could get someone put it in to a ISO image or bin and throw it on kazza or hosted somewhere since 100+ for that software (that should be included with price and wire is a bit steep)

yeep. i have the software (as bish does too ;)) and i will put it up in a few. but remember the software does you jack w/o the cable. and NO the calbe is not just a USB -> serial adaptor. there is some weird IC in there that is doing some sort of signal conversion....i haven't dug into it yet, but i hope to reproduce the cable @ a reasonable cost.....

[Bishop92T]

Just a little adlib:


the profec e is greddy's new EBC. it controls boost, the eman cannot. the e can also control ALL of the eman's functions and datalog.....

I'm not 100% sure the Profec E-01 can actually control all the e-Manage functions, and if it does datalog it will be space limited much quicker then a laptop would. Also I doubt you can store more then 2-3 maps on the Profec E-01, probably can only store one. None of these things are a really big deal but since you can get a laptop on Ebay that will do everything you need for under $300 I'd highly recommend it. The laptop will make tuning much easier and transferring logged data to someone on the internet for review will also be much easier with a laptop. I already own a laptop that just barely meets the realtime display mode requirements so I'm set :)


your laptop should work fine, you just won't be able to display things realtime.

Realtime isn't really important, just a neat thing to have. Since you can run the software you can datalog all the info and then scroll back through it later.


yeep. i have the software (as bish does too ;)) and i will put it up in a few. but remember the software does you jack w/o the cable. and NO the calbe is not just a USB -> serial adaptor. there is some weird IC in there that is doing some sort of signal conversion....i haven't dug into it yet, but i hope to reproduce the cable @ a reasonable cost.....

I went ahead and put the Support Tool ver 1.11 up for people to download. You won't be able to access half of the stuff (since no e-Manage will be plugged in) but you can still look around at the maps and see how easy it is to change stuff.
e-Manage software (http://www.alamomotorsports.com/Support_Tool_v111.zip) Even though I already paid $130 for a damn cable I'd like to see Dr J reproduce it so others can enjoy this system at a lower cost.

[drjonez]

Originally posted by Bishop92T
Even though I already paid $130 for a damn cable I'd like to see Dr J reproduce it so others can enjoy this system at a lower cost.

heh me too. i already split the cable/software w/a friend here so i am out $$ too. ;) hopefully we can duplicate the cable for cheap....

[Enraged]

if the E-manage can control extra injectors, what about using two additional stock turbo 440cc injectors? or would that create problems with fuel distrobution? apparantly there are lots of MKIIIs in japan that run additional injectors instead of 550s, etc. with no problems

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by Enraged
if the E-manage can control extra injectors, what about using two additional stock turbo 440cc injectors? or would that create problems with fuel distrobution? apparantly there are lots of MKIIIs in japan that run additional injectors instead of 550s, etc. with no problems

You could, however you would need another injector resistor pack. The e-Manage is designed to control high impedance injectors. Then you also have the fun of routing new fuel lines to the new injectors.

[TD42T]

Now I'm not to bright when it comes to all this electrics stuff.

Am I right in thinking that the GE flapper AFM sends a voltage of between 0-5v to the ECU as a representation of air flow through it?

If so I found this graph thing about % of AFM movement to flow/voltage for the flapper type AFM.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/9975/dataBySubject/AFMs.html

I have no idea as to how MAP sensors output their readings but if one could be found that had a 0-5v output you could use the correction tables of the Emange to make it all work maybe?
This doesn't help you GTE guys but.
Yes/no or am I reading all this stuff wrong?

Marty

[ZaZZn]

A quick search of the Net and looky what I found :)
http://pfranc.com/usb/usb.shtml
Another
http://www.ebusinesscables.com/usb_serial_cable.htm

Forget the 100 we just saved 70 :) Get that 30$ cable (I'd get the larry one it looks the best quality / support)
Not bad 300+30+free sofware download thanks to our supra form community.... :)

Sweet.... Dammit someone buy my safr now!


Originally posted by Bishop92T


You could, however you would need another injector resistor pack. The e-Manage is designed to control high impedance injectors. Then you also have the fun of routing new fuel lines to the new injectors.

Can you mix the IMP HIGH/LOW also can you mix size with emanage?
Wondering because I have 12 Stock 440's and 16 550's 8 high and 8 lows (hanging around) I believe you answered this I just can't remember and don't wanna read all the posts again :/

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by TD42T
Now I'm not to bright when it comes to all this electrics stuff.

Am I right in thinking that the GE flapper AFM sends a voltage of between 0-5v to the ECU as a representation of air flow through it?

If so I found this graph thing about % of AFM movement to flow/voltage for the flapper type AFM.

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/9975/dataBySubject/AFMs.html

I have no idea as to how MAP sensors output their readings but if one could be found that had a 0-5v output you could use the correction tables of the Emange to make it all work maybe?
This doesn't help you GTE guys but.
Yes/no or am I reading all this stuff wrong?

Marty

This was discussed earlier in the thread. Yes the N/A AFM output is 0-5v and the MAP sensor is 0-5v. You just have to play with the e-Manage software to make the ECU think it still has a flapper door on it. There is no set way to do this, it will be trial and error.


Can you mix the IMP HIGH/LOW also can you mix size with emanage?
Wondering because I have 12 Stock 440's and 16 550's 8 high and 8 lows (hanging around) I believe you answered this I just can't remember and don't wanna read all the posts again :/

Yes you can mix sizes but every low impedance injector needs a resistor inline with it. Here is the GReddy page describing it (http://mkiv.com/tmp/emanage/emanage_software_manual/esm/009.JPG)

Read this page (http://mkiv.com/tmp/emanage/cable/index.html) to find out why we can't use a simple usb-serial convertor

[ZaZZn]

Doesn't say anything in there about not using a universal cable?

I still don't see why you can't use one? The cable I have linked has a special chip in it that makes it act to rs 232 perfectly.......

Can you clear this up?

[drjonez]

NO. the port on the eman is a USB plug and that is it, it is NOT USB. its serial. greddy used the USB plug because they are plentiful and cheap.....

[ZaZZn]

intresting... But won't that wire that I have listed (the first one) work anyways.. The way the USB port works i'm sure the adapter that I have listed would work.... But there's only one way to tell... also I wondering if you can trace the leads that connect to the usb port and soldder new wires to a rs232 wire... (but is it worth it) Only greedy would come up with such a cable design.

[drjonez]

go ahead and try. it is NOT a simple USB->Serial adaptor. look @ the pix on the mkiv.com site, there is an IC in there that is doing some sort of conversion. i may be working on cloning the cable this weekend.....

[ZaZZn]

If you follow the link that I have posted there are a few IC's in the cable that converts the usb to rs232...

Check it out.

[drjonez]

yeeep. a simple USB->RS232 adaptor. but as i have already stated several times, the greddy cable is NOT simply a USB->serial (RS232) cable.....

[Enraged]

here you go boys, maybe this is a good deal?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2400054164&category=6770

[drjonez]

Originally posted by Enraged
here you go boys, maybe this is a good deal?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2400054164&category=6770

not after you factor in shipping. that mkiv.com dude is still the cheapest by far.

[outofstep]

I started playing around with the program, but I've got a question. What are the additional rows for? I don't realy get that. In my screen cap, would I have effectively bumped the base timing before boost? Or would I have to do something more in the lower rows?

http://www.supraforums.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=851857

[outofstep]

ohh... I think I've got it. That's for the throttle possision. But I didn't have it loaded.

So with this new screencap basicly I've got the timing bumped at low rpms no mater if its wot or not. Then as it gets into the higher rpms and wot it tapers out abit. Is this correct?

http://www.supraforums.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=851888

[ZaZZn]

how much is the mk4 guy selling the cable for?

[drjonez]

see the link posted a few pages back....

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by outofstep
I started playing around with the program, but I've got a question. What are the additional rows for? I don't realy get that. In my screen cap, would I have effectively bumped the base timing before boost? Or would I have to do something more in the lower rows?

Actually the rows are for boost and vacuum. Columns are for RPM. Rows and columns change depending on what map you are modifying. You aren't seeing it on the first screen b/c you don't have the MAP sensor enabled. On the second screen you've got the scale on (V) volts instead of on boost. You are going to want a map based on kg/cm2 so you can have timing jacked up during vacuum, as soon as 0 kg/cm2 has been reached start backing the timing down until it's 0 advance after .5 kg/cm2 or so. Best bet for tuning is to get your fuel map situated right so you aren't running lean and then start playing with ignition map.

[tsupra]

well, i emailed bishop about this idea earlier but he hasn't replied yet so i'll post it here. looking through the program it seems that there may be an unused voltage input, a second airflow input. would it be possible to hook the probe from a greddy a/f gauge or one of the other wide band or near wide band probes to it for data logging purposes? a correlation table for each probe type would have to be made to convert voltage to a/f ratio but that shouldn't be too difficult. this way you could make a graph with rpm, throttle posistion and a/f voltage and use that to tune with i think.

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by tsupra
well, i emailed bishop about this idea earlier but he hasn't replied yet so i'll post it here. looking through the program it seems that there may be an unused voltage input, a second airflow input. would it be possible to hook the probe from a greddy a/f gauge or one of the other wide band or near wide band probes to it for data logging purposes? a correlation table for each probe type would have to be made to convert voltage to a/f ratio but that shouldn't be too difficult. this way you could make a graph with rpm, throttle posistion and a/f voltage and use that to tune with i think.

I didn't get that email, are you sure you sent it to the right place? That second AFM input is for dual AFM cars. I'm not sure it would even see the second input without the dial switches on the correct place, and if you reset the dial switches it might not see the KV AFM correctly. It is worth a shot.
That is a good point though, I'm surprised GReddy didn't make it interface with their own A/F gauge. Their A/F gauge has the same pinout situation as their boost gauge which they interfaced with the Profec E-01.

[tsupra]

i sent it to the address i have for you that i got off the sogi list. the br2k.com one. did you happen to get a chance to see if that might work?

[Bishop92T]

Hahaha, that br2k email has not been active in years. I've been on ma70.com since 2000.
I have not gotten a chance to test that theory yet. Been busy helping a local get his BHG repaired. I will try to test that theory later this week.

[dcfc3s]

Hey guys!

I'm Dale, I'm the moderator/list owner of the E-manage mailing list. I figured I'd jump in and clear up some misconceptions and questions floating around here.

First off, about the E-01. I got my E-01 about a week or so ago, and it is the most revolutionary thing I've seen in a long time. Calling it a boost controller is like calling the pope a nice guy - it's really more of an information hub for the car.

The E-01 does have FULL control over the E-manage - everything you can do with the support tool you can do with the E-01. Yes, I sat down and went through all the functions of each :). You can buy the E-01 and a regular A-B USB cable from a computer store, hook it up, and are good to go - you DO NOT NEED the support tool with the E-01. However, I would imagine the E-manage would be far easier to tune with a laptop. Probably best to get the bulk of the map done with a laptop, then you can fine-tune things with the E-01 as you're driving around.

They do make a number of concessions to the E-01's screen size - you can zoom in and out of maps and the like, which does help.

The E-01 can be hooked up to any Greddy peak/hold/warning gauge with the data cable (which is just a male/male stereo mini-jack cable, like CD player headphones). With the gauge hooked up, you can display the information on the E-01's screen, record it, set warning points, set warning actions.....you get the idea.

There is also an optional harness for the E-01 to allow you to tap into 2 analog inputs and 2 pulse inputs. Again, you can record, peak/hold, set warnings, display, whatever you want. And, you can set the voltage range and conversion for each input, so you could tie it into a 0-5v output from a wideband O2 sensor and datalog it, and even put in the voltage to AF ratio so it will give you the right ratio on the screen. With the pulse input, you can record *any* pulsed signal on the car, like a speed sensor, idle speed control, ANYTHING. There are also 2 outputs. With the outputs, you can take an input, cut it off, then output it.

Yes, you can save 3 fuel maps on the E-01 - it has a 16 meg SD memory card (like for a digital camera). You can also record up to 3 hours of data, but you can only record one thing - you can't save recorded data. Think of it like a stopwatch that you reset each time you time a race. But, you can pause, fast forward/rewind, and step through the log.

The support tool's cable IS something special, it's not commercially available. Any USB to serial cables you'll see are for adding a serial port to a laptop that only has USB. That's going the wrong direction. Trying one of those cables is like turning a meat grinder backwards and hoping a pig will come out. Anyhow, there is a guy on the E-manage list who's selling really nice clone cables for $40 - I've got one, and it works perfectly.

You might want to check out the E-manage list for more info -

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emanage

In the Files section is the frequently-updated E-manage FAQ, the E-01 manual (that sucker was a bitch to scan in! :) ), and plenty more.

BTW, Bishop, I would like to add the diagram of how to hook up an E-manage to a MKIII to the files repository, if that's cool by you. I'm always looking for good stuff like that!

If you guys have any specific questions about the E-01 and E-manage, post 'em up - I know 'em like the back of my hand :).

Dale

[Bishop92T]

Hey Dale, you're welcome to post that diagram on your site. Is there any way to transfer the E-01 data logs to a laptop without using a SD card reader? Also, can you datalog more then 3 values? I notice we could only see 3 in realtime display and I didn't see a way to log more then 3 values. Didn't get a chance to play with it much.

Local Supra guy just installed his Profec E-01. Main thing that annoyed me was the fact that the remote is wired. Reminds me of our first Beta with a 4 button wired remote circa 1988. GReddy sneakily takes all pictures with the cable hidden and the black plastic on the screen sure looks like an IR receiver. I certainly wouldn't call it revolutionary. It's more a meld of multiple ideas. It's like a AVC-R and a CAMP in one. It's definitely a must-have add-on for any E-Manage owner.

[tsupra]

Originally posted by dcfc3s

Yes, you can save 3 fuel maps on the E-01 - it has a 16 meg SD memory card (like for a digital camera). You can also record up to 3 hours of data, but you can only record one thing - you can't save recorded data. Think of it like a stopwatch that you reset each time you time a race. But, you can pause, fast forward/rewind, and step through the log.

Dale

since it has a camera style memory card can you pop it out and stick a card with more memory in so you can get more fuel maps?

[89Turbo]

Great work guys! But why does the e-manage support tool software ask for a serial number? I installed it without one, but I can't get any maps like in the above screenshots. Am I doing something wrong? Does the serial number come with the main e-manage unit itself?

[drjonez]

the s/n is useless....more of a feature they probably require later. you can't see the maps because you don't have an eman connected....

[89Turbo]

[89Turbo]

Thank you. One more question, with the e-manage installed is it possible to push the stock injectors far enough to provide enough fuel for an upgraded CT26 (around 350-400hp)? Is it possible to do so with an A'PEXi S-AFC?

[drjonez]

anything is possible, its just a matter of how long do you want it to last? pushing the stock injectors to that HP level is foolish- sure it may work for a while, but a spot of bad gas, a touch of interference and BOOOOOM, there goes your engine. be smart, get bigger injectors.....

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by 89Turbo
Thank you. One more question, with the e-manage installed is it possible to push the stock injectors far enough to provide enough fuel for an upgraded CT26 (around 350-400hp)? Is it possible to do so with an A'PEXi S-AFC?

The e-Manage can do anything the S-AFC can do and more. You could increase the duty cycle of the 440's while holding back the AFM signal to keep a higher FCO but it is dangerous. Running injectors at such a high duty cycle is just asking for an injector to get partially clogged. If you insist on doing the 440 route, spend the money on getting those injectors cleaned and tested. Get an AFPR, crank your fuel pressure up and cross your fingers.

[dcfc3s]

Man, I just wrote a great post and the freakin' forum ate it...grrr....

Anyhow, here's the short answer to all the quesions :).

- The E-01 does only save 3 fuel maps. That's a limitation of software, not of memory card space - the programmers only made three slots to save to. Think of it like saving to slots on a videogame memory card. But, you can easily swap out memory cards and have multiple maps.

- You can only datalog 3 inputs at a time. I believe part of the rationale is to differentiate the E-01 from the support tool. But, with the small screen, too much more stuff on the screen would get busy and hard to read. It kind of does do more than that - it does display solenoid duty cycle on all the screens.

- You bigtime don't need the serial number to install the support tool - I installed mine with serial number "666" :). To get into the maps, go to Parameter Setting, pick what maps you want to use, then hit OK. That will light 'em all up to play with.

- The good thing with the wired remote is you won't lose it in the car and your buddy won't walk off with it :). But, there is a plug about halfway in the cord to the remote, so in theory they could make an IR remote with the receiver plugged into the cable. Or, an enterprising enthusiast could do the same :).

I still think the E-01 is a revolutionary device. It ties together a lot of things into one package, and when you have disparate things communicating together, it's typically more than the sum of its parts. Computers are neat, but tie a bunch together to the Internet and it gets really cool. Also, anything with tons of functionality lends itself to functions the designers didn't intend. Take for example the blue wire mod on the Super-AFC. The fact you can massage inputs to the E-01 lends itself to a LOT of functions - heck, you can use it as a fuel cut defender, convert a pulse signal to analog...it's pretty cool!

Dale

[89Turbo]

Originally posted by dcfc3s
To get into the maps, go to Parameter Setting, pick what maps you want to use, then hit OK. That will light 'em all up to play with.

Thanks man, that works. I wanted to see how the software works before buying the system. Looks easier than I expected. This system bridges the gap between piggybacks and full stand-alones. I'm impressed!

[QWIKSTRIKE]

Greddy is using the emange to run the new twin turbos for the 350z. This is awesome news. I read this in this month's turbo magazine!

[tsupra]

Bishop, did you wire in the optional ignition harness yet? if so do you have the pin outs for it? been reading the emanage list and there's a guy on there having problems with that in his 7mgte.

[daniloreyes]

Wow. Nice thread. I like the idea of the E-manage. One question. for $300 will it do the same as the S-afc (Apex)?
And them we can upgrade, seems like a good deal if that is true.
Also, you stated that you have the software, can you post it, I would like to see it and perhaps I will try the e-manage.

Tip: when you buy the VPC you replace the airflow meter with a 3" aluminum tube. You can install the air flow meter sensor inside this tube and 650-720 cc injectors and control it via e-manage or S-afc.
Danilo Reyes

[daniloreyes]

Sold! is this price normal or cheap ($279)

[drjonez]

latest version of the software is here:

www.mkiiisupra.com/tech

yea, you can use the eman w/o the software/cable, but its just like the old skool SAFC- you have a few dials to turn and das it (pretty lame). the software/cable is another $120, but you get complete control w/it.......i'm hoping to clone the cable for a more reasonable price......

[ZaZZn]

Hurry that clone up :-) I just got rid of my S-AFR :)

[drjonez]

heh. haven't had time man.....

yeep, i just got rid of my SAFR too.... ;)

[Turb0robb]

I'm putting one on a buddies 97mk4, haven't got it yet but its on its way...looks like I'll be ditching my trusty Rebic LC and upgrading with the new gear. Hmmm.. where to put that funky little screen in my mk3?:D

[joliroger4]

bishop: I quickly skimmed through the posts. Did you hook up your injector and ignition harnesses yet? If so, could you make another diagram of the pinouts like for the original hookup if you get some time?

Also, has there been any word if it has been confirmed thats a GM 3 bar?

Hows the cable going DR J? I saw a clone on that yahoo group for 30, but I feel a little wierd about sending my cash to mylasia...oh well it may be worth it for a fraction of the cost, its been confirmed on the yahoo group the guy wont rip you off and it works...rather get it local though. well more local

[Adam W]

I'm trying to find a cheap laptop at the moment so I can go ahead and get enrolled in the E-manage revolution ;)

I'm wondering how one would go about creating a good ignition map? Fuelling can be measured on a wideband, but how do you judge how much advance/retard you should be running? I'm well aware of the dangers of running too much advance and have no wish to blow an engine by doing so! I'm thinking though, as the E-manage is "just" a piggyback, will the stock ECU's knock sensor correction circuit thingy still work?

ie if you advance the timing by say three degrees at a given point on your e-manage, and your engine starts detting, will the knock sensors tell the ECU to retard base timing until it stops? Maybe your ECU map says +1 on the ignition at 3000rpm and 50% throttle (or whatever), and your e-manage map says "add three to the ECU map" giving you a total of +4 degrees. Then you get a knock at that point, so as usual the knock sensors tell the ECU to retard the timing, so it might go to -1 degree ECU plus 3 degrees E-manage giving a total of +2 degrees. If that is still knocking then the ECU will keep knocking it further and further back until the knocking stops.

I'm not sure I've explained that right! Does anyone understand me??? :)

[drjonez]

jol- no progress. i haven't had time.....i may snag that one from the malaysian guy and see if there are p/ns on the chips he used....

yup, the stock knock control still applies. remember that the MKIII ECU has AGGRESSIVE knock control- i.e. any knock detected no more advance for you.

[daniloreyes]

Is this tread dead,?
Did someone found the cheap cables?
Has anyone insatalled the e-manage already? In a MKIII?

SuperSupra

[tsupra]

Bishop has one installed, there are a couple of other guys on the yahoo emanage group that have them in mk3s also. mine will be going in soon, waiting on my cable to come from that guy in malaysia and looking for a source for ecu harness extension connectors so i'm not hacking up my engine harness.

[drjonez]

good luck w/the ECU plugs. i have found 'em, but the only way to get them is buying in quantities >500. :P

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by joliroger4
bishop: I quickly skimmed through the posts. Did you hook up your injector and ignition harnesses yet? If so, could you make another diagram of the pinouts like for the original hookup if you get some time?

Also, has there been any word if it has been confirmed thats a GM 3 bar?

Nope, have not had time to hook up the injector or ignition harnesses yet but when I do I will make another diagram. Once the whole project is complete I plan on making a page describing how to install the unit as well as basic tuning.

After examination I really don't think the GReddy MAP is the GM 3 bar however I have been watching the signal it puts out and it is a 3 bar sensor.

[joliroger4]

Originally posted by tsupra
Bishop has one installed, there are a couple of other guys on the yahoo emanage group that have them in mk3s also. mine will be going in soon, waiting on my cable to come from that guy in malaysia and looking for a source for ecu harness extension connectors so i'm not hacking up my engine harness.

You don't have to hack up, your harnes, use the the 3m splice thingies. The put as small slice around the wire insulation and thats it. If you take it off, you can just wrap a little tape around it to prevent a short. It'll have you from haveing to get those ecu connectors. It'll save some space in there too.

Dave

[joliroger4]

Have you guys read the posts on the emananage group lately? They said they got the injector harness working, but ignition could not be done, even by greddy. Looks like we might be on our own to figure this out. Here is the post

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/emanage/message/1267

[Adam W]

And then three months later they come loose and you get all sorts of weird electrical dropouts and it takes you forty hours to figure out what the hells gone wrong . . . I *hate* those stupid things! :D

I might have a source for Field harness ECU loom extension thingies from Japan; price will be around $90 each at a rough guess. Still waiting for confirmation that they haven't got me confused with a MkIV owner but it sounds promising. Is that a reasonable price, and would many people here be interested in getting hold of one?

[joliroger4]

Originally posted by Adam Wootten
And then three months later they come loose and you get all sorts of weird electrical dropouts and it takes you forty hours to figure out what the hells gone wrong . . . I *hate* those stupid things! :D

I might have a source for Field harness ECU loom extension thingies from Japan; price will be around $90 each at a rough guess. Still waiting for confirmation that they haven't got me confused with a MkIV owner but it sounds promising. Is that a reasonable price, and would many people here be interested in getting hold of one?

I've had them on my car for over two years now for my boost controller, a/f gauge, afc, egt gauge and god knows where else, prob over 20 of them. Never had a problem. They only cost about 2 bucks for a 5 pack too. I would much rather have everything look all pretty by my ecu and have space then have wires all over the place with those extensions. Who knows though, maybe I'm instore for electrical problems down the road in another 2 years. 3m is good stuff though, I have faith in them. Apex also gives them away with their EL gauges. Two companies who have never disappointed me.

Anyway back to the ignition problem there was just another post by this dude dino

"That's Bullshit. I'll post you a drawing of a small
circuit soon that will do the trick... The external
ignitor trick WILL work."

[drjonez]

i am 99% sure that fields doesn't make a MA70 harness....

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by Adam Wootten
And then three months later they come loose and you get all sorts of weird electrical dropouts and it takes you forty hours to figure out what the hells gone wrong . . . I *hate* those stupid things! :D

I might have a source for Field harness ECU loom extension thingies from Japan; price will be around $90 each at a rough guess. Still waiting for confirmation that they haven't got me confused with a MkIV owner but it sounds promising. Is that a reasonable price, and would many people here be interested in getting hold of one?

Get quality taps and you won't have a problem.

Good luck on the Fields harness, I talked with Fields a couple months ago and they told me they discontinued the 7m ECU line. Only the 2jz and 1jz ECU remains for Supras. You are better off trying to get a VPC or FCON harness.

[Adam W]

Looks like you're right, my man was thinking I had the 1JZ engine. Fields don't list a 7M-GTE harness, but bizarrely they do a 7M-GE?

If anyone gets this ignition thing sorted one way or the other, be sure to post about it! Ignition timing control is one of the main reasons I want E-manage!

[drjonez]

they list a GE harness? that will work just fine. look into it!

[ZaZZn]

Jonez you excited? Mine and you're is on the way in the mail :)

Anyone know where i Can get the ignition harness and the other harness can't remember the name too early.. 6am need sleep.

[Enraged]

http://www.mkiv.com/tmp/emanage/

[ZaZZn]

They just look like a bunch of wires with but connectors?

I'm not going to pay damn near 150 CAD for soem wires.. Easy enough to make can you confirm this bishop? Can you take a picture of the wires out of the package.... I 'll just go to radio shack get some 14 gague wire or so and some butt connectors and vola.. Saved my self a assload... (my wiring harness is aready fairly hacked up by the ecu form the swap from AVC-R 1st gen to 2nd gen and 2 diffrent fuel comptuers now now and emanage rdy to go in

[joliroger4]

ignition has been solved

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/emanage/message/1302

[flubyux2]

so is there any way to run dual AFM?

[drjonez]

Originally posted by flubyux2
so is there any way to run dual AFM?

not for KV AFMs.....

[flubyux2]

has there been any progress on using a homemade translator from the KV to a 0-5v signal?

Itd be great to be able to convert the AFM or at least use something that is less restrictive. I have a feeling that the only solution is something along the lines of a Lexus MAF upgrade...

[drjonez]

eh. why? its already established that 600rwhp+ is possible thru the lex AFM. what more do you need?

[Grizzly_GER]

Hi,

i like to buy a whole Set E01+E-Manage with harness for fuel and ignition.
Do i need a fuel cut defender at all ?

Grizzly

[Adam W]

No FCD required.

A friend of mine reckons that the E-Manage will work like an Additional Injector Controller, ie run two extra injectors somewhere in the inlet path; but I thought it drove the stock injectors independantly of the ECU signal?

Have I misunderstood how it works? Having to buy more injectors and plumb them in will be a PITA!

[drjonez]

ummmm. i think you are slightly confused.

1. fuel cut has NOTHING to do w/fuel. it has everything to do w/the AFM reading XX ammount of flow and telling the ECU to cut spark

2. the eman has the ability to clamp AFM voltage. too bad we don't have a voltage based AFM.....

3. the eman can control fuel via AFM signal just like the SAFC/SAFR.

4. the eman can add/subtract injector duty via the optional inj harness AND can add up to 2 additional injectors

[jwebster]

Ok so the ignition timing control won't work with the 7mgte?

[Adam W]

So my friend and and I are both right :) I should have looked in the help files for the software, it says:

*Additional Injection Map

This is used to increase the fuel injection by adding to the factory programmed Injector duty cycle.The injector signal (duty cycle)is altered according to this Map for fine-tuning.

*Sub-Injector Map

This feature can be used if the application requires more fuel than the main injectors can provide.


(Both features in addition to the airflow adjustment map).

[drjonez]

Originally posted by jwebster
Ok so the ignition timing control won't work with the 7mgte?

not sure where you got this from, but there are several people working on it. it looks like you have to use an invertor for the ignitor signal and then use another ignitor. i will figure this out sometime....

[daniloreyes]

Can the E-manage be used with a HKS VPC?

[drjonez]

sure, why not?

[Adam W]

Can I wire my e-manage to the aircon for cooler cabin temps in the summer? ;)

Serious question: How do you envisage setting up a timing map, or, to put it another way, what is the best/simplest/safest way of monitoring the engine as you adjust the timing to make sure you don't det it to death?

I've heard of people using det-cans when the car is on a RR or the engine is on an engine dyno, would there be anyway for us home users to avoid paying dyno time to get a timing map that was "pretty close",even if it wasn't perfect?

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by drjonez
2. the eman has the ability to clamp AFM voltage. too bad we don't have a voltage based AFM.....

That statement is a little misleading. The e-Manage can clamp KV signal to remove FCO on the Supra.

Adam W: EGT's will heat up as you add ignition advance.

[Enraged]

question for dr j and bishop, our resident eman experts: from your point of veiw, is their any downside from running the eman with stock injectors, as well as 1 or 2 additional injectors to provide suffecient fuel for say, 400rwhp? standard upgrade is lex/550s, but using eman ability to control extra injectors, add in say, 2 550cc injectors, which will only be used under boost. downside? all i can think of is if your stock injectors are old and clogged, possibly causing a lean condition, and the other thing that came to mind would be the fuel from the additional injectors not being distrubuted evenly among the cylinders. would using an NA intake manifold liek dr j or a 2jz style effect the fuel dispertion (sp?)

just thinking out loud, so please feel free to pick apart my post :)

[drjonez]

eh. i am not a fan of additional injectors. it seems sort of redneck to me. a more scientific excuse would be poor atomization of the fuel......injecting fuel into the intake upstream of the TB/manifold is a bad idea as it tends to not atomize well and doesn't get evenly distributed......

bish- i didn't know it could do that. GOOD!

[xtreme1]

Ok this is all good information that I would like to keep as in print out, but I would like to not print out a book. Could one of the originators sort all this out and perhaps make a list of guidelines or something. If I used the e-manage, what else would I need to make the magical 500HP number?
Avenue 1= the smartest and most reliable way?
Avenue 2= the cheapest way?
Thanks guys for doing the research, I know I greatly appreciate it.

[drjonez]

heh. this post is about using the eman in the MKIII, not the recipe for 500hp. do a search as many people ask that very question.....

[xtreme1]

Oh I realize that. I was just looking at the e-manage to control the engine, but with everyone having so many different combinations, it just plain got confusing. I'm starting fresh with the basic's and without trying to redo what everyone else has done, I was looking for some tips on what to buy with the e-manage.
Once again thanks for any advice.

[BLKMGK]

Originally posted by xtreme1
Oh I realize that. I was just looking at the e-manage to control the engine, but with everyone having so many different combinations, it just plain got confusing. I'm starting fresh with the basic's and without trying to redo what everyone else has done, I was looking for some tips on what to buy with the e-manage.
Once again thanks for any advice.

Something to consider guys - AEM is going to be releasing their PnP ECU for the MKIII before too long. It'll give you complete control over the engine including fuel and spark, eliminate the MAF, allow any rev limit, allow boost control, a 2step\launch control, anti-lag, nitrous control, additional injectors if you want, and total data logging. Oh yeah - no fuel cut!

It costs more to start with but it will get you around ALL of the issues you guys have been running into. You'll have to learn more about EFI and tune it more but AEM will provide a base map to get you started at least. It's on my MKIV now and almost ready for the MKIII. You'll need a GM IAT, a MAP sensor, and a W/B to do it right but you will have complete control and no barriers. It'll be interesting to see how much power the 7M will make with this. :)

[drjonez]

eh. it totally depends on what you want to do. the eman is the best of both worlds- stock ECU driveability, loads of control. the AEM is not for the faint of heart.....most people shy away from its complexity. not to mention its short comings- crappy ign control, etc. pick what you like.....i for one refuse to jump on the AEM bandwagon....

[supra87t3/t4]

We already got poo pooed for bringing up the AEM in this thread once ;)I agree with the Doc though. The AEM is not for the faint of heart. But the eman has it's shortcomings too, it's hardly proven to be capable of everything that's been claimed, so we will see, it will definantly be a GREAT option for alot of people.

GLEN - those not on the bandwagon will be left in the dust :) (IMO)

[drjonez]

Originally posted by supra87t3/t4

GLEN - those not on the bandwagon will be left in the dust :) (IMO)

heh. we'll see.......LMK if you ever want to hit the road course, then you can see who's in whose dust.....:devil:

[supra87t3/t4]

OK, what's the best compromise, Black Hawk Farms?

GLEN

[drjonez]

i think so. i was thinking about hitting that track day @ road america......who knows.....

[xtreme1]

Ahemmm, I wasn't trying to start another e-manage vs aem debate. I was just asking the ones that are working with this system.
I already have a Maxx D/P with a Blitz catback and a FIPK. I am going to rebuild the block this spring with some JE's on stock rods.
If I'm starting from an otherwise stock system using the e-manage, what components would be the best bang for the buck to hit 500HP? What kind of boost controller would work best with this system?

[GreaseMonkey]

Go with the new greddy boost controler!
it has a small screen that lets you control boost and everything on e-manage. if i had the cash i would get it

[drjonez]

along the same lines, this isn't a thread about how to achieve 500hp. this is a thread about emanage use/installation questions....like i already said, do search and read the 349043876 other topics we have had on your question.....

[BLKMGK]

Umm, what's wrong with the AEM's ignition control? It's the MKIV ignitor that's the problem. Replace the coils with LS1 coils and BYPASS the ignitor - no problem. You can run a DLI too. I'm not sure the MKIII will have the same sort of ignitor issues - is it COP?

You're right - the AEM isn't for the faint of heart. However with a piggyback you're second guessing the stock ECU. Talk to guys running piggyback stuff on the MKIV and using a W/B - A/F can change for no obvious reason. Why? Stock ECU makes a decision that the piggyback stuff doesn't correctly compensate for because it ain't that smart. How is the E-manage going to be any better? Stock driveability is achievable with the AEM, I've got it. I'm not some tuning wiz either but I have spent a bunch of time learning and still am learning. I see no reason why others cannot do the same <shrug> I have to giggle when people call it crap or too complicated since it's been getting me to work everyday for over six months. :P

I didn't read the AEM "debate" so I'll go back and look. You ought to realize that the AEM has quite a few features that no piggyback has though. Trac Control is coming too. Add it all up and it's a pretty serious value even with the cost of a W/B.

The new Greddy boost controller looks cool IMO. So does the HKS W/B & knock thing.

[drjonez]

ugh. can we leave the AEM vs. all discussions off this thread? start a new one or read the old one.....

as for AEM's ign- 2 words: waste fire.

[BLKMGK]

Originally posted by drjonez
ugh. can we leave the AEM vs. all discussions off this thread? start a new one or read the old one.....

as for AEM's ign- 2 words: waste fire.

LOL, what's wrong with that? Two words - BUICK GN. SP made over 1K RWHP waste-fire.:rolleyes: Sure, I'd like to be able to run with 6 coil outputs but I think the dozen other things like boost control, W/B closed loop, massive data logging, 2-step, anti-lag, and upcoming trac control sort of outweigh any issue I might have had with waste-fire. :cool:

I went waaay back and read the AEM "debate". It seems it mostly consists of you stating that it's not that good and to leave it alone. Alternate points of view not welcome? Before you get everyone jazzed about the E-Manage you ought to realize that it's got limitations too. It does have some potential but it's not the only good alternative out there for you guys now. Why is it a problem to let folks know this? Knock yourself out....

P.S. Sit down and figure out at what RPM - waste fire - that you no longer have enough time to FULLY charge the coil. Hint: WELL over 8K :p

[supra87t3/t4]

He's right this isn't the right thread to discuss it, even in comparative terms. It's unfortunate that this thread is 8 pages long and doesn't have alot of real eman info in it. I'm sure a day will come very soon that there will be "eman or AEM?" thread every 3 days like the "how to best get 500 hp" threads are already.

GLEN

[adjuster]

Please knock off the bickering about AEM v/s the Emanage. I don't care. I'll run either a piggy back, or standalone based on the merits when I see them actually running in a car, and not just on the net.
Please post some Dyno/track/GTpro figures as soon as possible. If this is a sub 500 buck super computer, I'm all for it. If not, then the AEM catches my eye, but only if it works.

[drjonez]

well said boys.

you won't have any hard data out of me for a long while....the car is in pieces and i won't have everything together for a few months. :P

[ZaZZn]

Just to let everyone know I installed my Emanage with just the main harness attached and had the car started and working perfectly normal... I ran it for about 5 minutes then shut it off since there was NO DP attached and all the intercooler pipes and bolts to get to the DP where off and the pipes where just sitting loose.

I was able to get the readings to datalog on to my P 133 in real time... I will be hooking up the injector harness fairly soon but I'm still stumped what to do about the ignition harness.

[Adam W]

That's good news about the laptop, means I don't have to spend as much on one! The wiring looks similar in complexity to installing an SAFC, is that about right?

Are you going to try the ignition solution from the yahoo group which was posted here a while back?

[drjonez]

yea, the wiring is pretty much the same as a SAFC/SAFR. a but more for the ign/inj harnesses.

i don't know about the yahoo groups solution, i have attempted to talk to the dude about it, but he is less than helpful....

[ZaZZn]

yes I'm fairly loss at #1 why the timing wont work with our stock ignitor. #2 what we are suposed to use instead. Finally #3 what the hell is needed to get it all working.

I heard there was somone that was able to get the timing working for increase only which is alright with me.. I just wanted to add down low and leave it alone up top.

[drjonez]

its appearantly that the stock ignitor is low triggered....the eman can only deal w/high trigger? i don't know. i don't have the race car running to play w/it. i'll post my findings when i do get it all hooked up.

[tsupra]

the way i understand how our ignitors work is the ecu sends a signal thru wire 1 and wire 2 to trigger coil 1, then sends a signal down wire 2 and wire 3 to trigger coil 2, and then sends a signal down wire 1 and wire 3 to trigger coil 3. this is completely different than just about every car out there. that's why that guy in mayalasia designed that circuit to get the signal after the ignitor then go to the emanage then to mitsubishi ignitor. hopefully i'll get all of that stuff installed this weekend.

[drjonez]

interesting. keep us posted on what you find.

what ignitors are you using?

[supra87t3/t4]

Yup the stock igniter is really funky. The ITC does an alright job though so I did have "some" hope you guys would get it to work, but not having Greddy's support is a killer. Maybe this will help?

GLEN

[Grizzly_GER]

Hi,

i´ve got my (nearly) full set too.
I ordered it here (http://www.mohdparts.com/emanage/index.html)
Nice guy ! Perfect mail contact.

Did someone from you interlink the E01 with the e-manage to use the preasure sensor from the E01 ?
Where do i get such a cable ?

Grizzly

[Grizzly_GER]

Ok,

i´ve now read at yahoo e-manage group about the cable delivery problems.

But may someone mail me the circuit diagram made by Robyn about the ignition conversation ? As a plain grafic file (.jpg or .tiff) ?
I can´t get throug the CAD thing.

Grizzly from Germany

[tsupra]

well, not having any luck using the flip flop circuit and a mitsubishi ignitor. got a bosch ignitor coming that won't need the flip flop. hope that works as it costs over $250.

[drjonez]

i'm planning on using the mitsu one out of the 3SIs....have to see how that worx.

[MightyAl]

Why dont you use an ignitor out of a diamante or galant... from what i read I thought it said an ignitor out of any V6 mitsu will do. After spending months just looking for a 3SI to purchase I would say one of the latter would be easier to find. Correct me if I am wrong.

[ZaZZn]

So when you guys do this swap all you change is the ignitor? Don't you have to change the coil packs as well?

[Adam W]

I was thinking the ignitors and the coil packs are the same thing? :iwdumbass

The coil packs are the six things that sit on the plate that goes across the cam covers with one wire from each coilpack to a sparkplug. I'm pretty sure that's right :)

Whereabouts are the ignitors, and what do they do?

[drjonez]

Originally posted by MightyAl
Why dont you use an ignitor out of a diamante or galant... from what i read I thought it said an ignitor out of any V6 mitsu will do. After spending months just looking for a 3SI to purchase I would say one of the latter would be easier to find. Correct me if I am wrong.

heh. they aren't hard to find when you have a friend who owns several. ;) i got the ignitor for free....

all- this is how the ign setup has to be done: you need to move the stock ignitor in by the glove box, the wiring has to be:

ECU->stock ignitor->flip flop->eman->other ignitor-> coil pack

a rather screwed up setup. its all because the stock ignitor drives the coil pack based on a combo of inputs, not a single trigger.

adam- yup, the coilpack sits on the cam covers. the ignitor is right behind the under hood fuse panel, the silver thing that says "ignitor" on it.

[tsupra]

Originally posted by drjonez

all- this is how the ign setup has to be done: you need to move the stock ignitor in by the glove box, the wiring has to be:

ECU->stock ignitor->flip flop->eman->other ignitor-> coil pack



please note that this is correct if you use the mitsubishi ignitor from just about any v6 mitsubishi, 3000gt, diamante, galante. they all use the same ignitor. if you use the bosch ignitor then the correct setup is
ECU->stock ignitor->eman->other ignitor-> coil pack
this is because the stock ignitor triggers a ground to the coils, the mitsi ignitor triggers +12 volts to the coils and so the flip flop is needed to make the swap. the bosch ignitors trigger a ground to the coils and doesn't need the flip flop.

[ZaZZn]

I dont get it why would you need a mitsu ignitor?

After the stock ignitor goes off and the signal passes though the flipflop wouldn't that be the same thing as the mitsu singal would give off? Why do you need the mitsu ignitor there? To adjust the timing does the eman have to be infront of the ignitor and first in line to the coil packs or behind the ignitor and closest to the ecu?

If it is only a simple 12+V swap up the flipflop takes care of that... Why the ignitor too?

Also I heard someone was able to get the Eman to work for adjusting timing up but not down... I am fairly confident I would only adjust up (down low) and lave it stock as soon as 10 psi starts to kick in.


Any ideas or anyone know who the guy that was able to get it to work on the stock ignitor is?

[tsupra]

the emanage doesn't have a strong enough signal to trigger coil packs. this is why it has to go in front of an ignitor. the ignitor takes the signal from the emanage and amplifies it so the coil can fire. since the mitsubishi ignitor is a positive trigger ignitor the flip flop is needed as the stock ignitor is a negative trigger ignitor. the emanage will put out whatever signal is put into it. in other words if negative goes into the emanage then negative has to come out. some are using the mitsubishi ignitor as it is a bit easier to find and should be cheaper. i did find a local wreaking yard that had the bosch ignitor but they wanted $300 just for it and $200 for the connectors. the bosch ignitors are available from motec with connectors for less than $300. as far as the guy getting the emanage to adjust timing up, i sent him an email about it several weeks ago asking how he did it. still haven't gotten a response. even if you can only adjust up it should work since you could always retard the timing by adjusting the cps then use the emanage to readjust it back up to where it should be. this could let you retard the timing at elevated boost levels where you need to retard more than the ecu will. one note about the flip flop, my friend who made mine telss me to be careful about which chip you use. seems there are several chips out there with that same part number but some are a lower voltage than others, check to make sure the chip will handle 12 volts or more.

[ZaZZn]

Will DSM igniters work? Because I know there are shit loads here in the wreckers..

What cars should I look for in the bone yard? Bosh or dsm units.

[DalyDrvr]

This is very cool. Can I patch in my WBO2 (0-5v) sensor for e-man to datalog on a channel not used by the mkIII? This would really make fuel curve tuning a snap.

[tsupra]

it's very doubtful you could tie the wideband to the emanage for data logging unless you could tie it to the pressure input or throttle input. the best bet would be to get an EO-1 and the optional input harness for it to tie it in. if you happen to have a greddy A/F gauge then it plugs right into the EO-1 with a 1/8 inch stereo patch cord.

[Enraged]

if you have a laptop for tuning anyways, what stops you from running a WB02 program as well as the Greddy tuning program? they wouldnt be connected, so you would have to switch between them, but it would work...

[DalyDrvr]

YeaH I could do that, but it gets clunky. Being able to overlay A/F ratio on the same plot with RPM, boost and throttle position is 21st century technology...

[ZaZZn]

http://www.yotatech.com/showthread.php?threadid=5130&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

read up on that.. very intresting... seems like the ignition problem we are having as well sounds the same...

[Adam W]

Leaving the ignition problem aside for the moment, how are people getting on with fuel mapping on this thing? How easy is it to use the additional fuelling map to maintain proper fuelling past the normal fuel cut point, after you've clamped the KV signal?

[tsupra]

i've got the ignition problem mostly solved. see this link. http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/emanage/message/1843
i think Zazzn may be making an install file for this part. Zazzn, this so?

[ZaZZn]

Already done :)

http://www3.sympatico.ca/zazzn/pics/temp/ignitionEmanage.jpg

I thought it uploaded to the emanage yahoo files section but it wouldn't let me so I uploaded it to my website until it gets posted there. let me know if you see any problems

[Adam W]

I was thinking . . . would it be possible to use the additional injector maps of the E-manage to control a nitrous solenoid? You could wind up the duty cycle over a 300rpm band (or something like that) to use it as a progressive controller, or use the MAP sensor and TPS to use it as a spool up system. ie if Throttle = 100% and boost < 5psi then open nitrous solenoid.

[sniperd]

Using it to control nitrous and show A/F would be awesome...

[flubyux2]

so, im really interested to find out if there is any way to log knock... cuz i like to tune for 0-3 counts of knock... i guess 0-3 counts in DSM terms. im not sure what the TCCS counts by or what are safe numbers to work in... but on our DSM, 0-3 counts will still let the ECU advance timing, 4-8 counts will make the ECU pause timing advance till it recedes and then can continue to advance timing... and if its over 8 counts (maxes out at 43 knock count) it pulls timing... but generally speaking, on a tuned 4G63, the advance will dump when you go WOT, and slowly advances as the RPMS go up provided the knock i kept in check, and a tuned car will end up w/ ~20-23* by 7000 rpm. Im not sure what normal timing advance is supposed to be on a healthy 7MGTE or what accceptable knock limits are on it either...

but, i would definitly like to be able to log knock or at least log timing advance, and tune for that... cuz ultimately, knock affects the advance, and if you see it take a crap... then its safe to assuem that its caused by knock, and you need more fuel... so Knock logging/monitoring is not 100% necessary for me i guess, but i really would like to know exactly what is going on even if its just for reference.

btw, can the E-01 Display screen show in Line graphs in real time? if not, reviewing a saved run after the fact is ok too... but i just got used to tuning-on-the-fly in the DSM... guess im spoiled :D i just find peaks and vallyes in a line graph easier to interpret than numbers/digits... no thinking required... all i have to do is look and make sure the line is perfectly flat and/or smooth w/o any breaks or spikes at a moments glance... no thinking.

i guess, i would need the Base unit+Fuel harness+ignition harness right? any word on Public domain Support tool... as far as the new version w/ the bugs worked out? Also, ive seen where several people have bought the cable from Malaysia and had great results, cable was high quality, and was quite timely in shipping.

i guess, if i can tune everything from the add-on display screen, i can avoid the bulky lap-top even though itll cost the same amount as a used laptop. Itd be nice to flush mount permanently in the dash below the guages where the ash tray and AC vents are... maybe in a carbon fiber mount plate. yumm

[drjonez]

to attempt to compare the way one ECU worx to another is futile. the MKIII ECU is not nearly as "open" as the DSM ECU.....your only way to monitor knock is via j+s or other monitors.....no way to generate a "knock count".....

[Supramanmk3]

Can I still use the S-AFC along with the E-manage unit or should I just put it up for sale Dr J?.

[Bishop92T]

Supramanmk3, there is no reason to run an S-AFC and a e-Manage together since the e-Manage can do everything the S-AFC can. But yes it would be possible.

flubyux2, Supra's KS are freq based, nothing on the e-Manage can easily log that. And yes the e-01 can display a line graph, bar graph or numbers in realtime, up to 3 inputs + boost. If you run the e-01 with the e-Manage you won't actually need the support tool unless you plan on tuning with laptop also. Tuning with the e-01 can be tedious to setup a base map.

[QWIKSTRIKE]

Wzup drjonez.Bishop! Have you guys got any numbers for the emanage yet! Im planning on getting rid of the afm and going vpc/emanage! I just got the Vpc off of ebay, wish me luck with it's
operation! Next is the emanage and e-01 boost controller!

[flubyux2]

I just got my emanage and fuel injector harness. i don thave the E-01 or lap top to run the injector tuning maps yet, but, the instructinos that came w/ the injector harness are ALL japanese and i cant read it.

are tehre instructions to install the Fuel injection harness out there, anywhere? cuz idont think i saw it mentioned in my emanage booklet.

anyhow, id like to tune this. I need to find someone to swap some injectors with, cuz i cant run my High impedence as i previously planned, so i cant use my Lex for the time being either.

tuning w/ the knobs is going to be kind of rough, but i thikn itll get the job done and be able to keep my stuff safe.

anyone have ideas wehre to mount the main unit?

[QWIKSTRIKE]

WZup flubyux2, what convinced you to go emanage! I remeber you and I going at it as I was trying to convince you it was a great way to go! I just got my vpc and I'm going emanage and e-01 to tune it good luck! There are post on how to do it! I suggest you pm or email Bishop, since he told me he will assist me when I get my unit! I think you made a very good choice in buying this unit! BTW I got the vpc off of ebay for $400.00 and need harness 166.00 from Joe@hpf.com and the air sensor 75.00, and prom 65.00!

[Bishop92T]

Originally posted by flubyux2
I just got my emanage and fuel injector harness. i don thave the E-01 or lap top to run the injector tuning maps yet, but, the instructinos that came w/ the injector harness are ALL japanese and i cant read it.

anyone have ideas wehre to mount the main unit?

http://www.mohdparts.com has english instructions for everything.

I just got my injector harness and haven't had a chance to install it yet. It's been raining like mad here for a week. Anyone else get their's installed yet?

I have my e-01 and e-manage both sitting in the glovebox. There is just an insane amount of wires involved in both units, the glovebox is the only place I could find that would hold everything.

[flubyux2]

glovebox was my first thought... but its not very solid, and no air flow. is it real important to have sufficient airflow for the main unit?

i was actually thinking of letting roam about free-range till the knobs are tuned right, and Then mounting it right on top of the TCCS, literally piggy backed.

[Bishop92T]

Nah, it doesn't get hot. You could shove it under the carpet if you wanted and it wouldn't suffer. I want mine accessible b/c I still plan on tuning by laptop occasionally when the need arises. My glovebox is plenty solid, maybe yours is missing some screws? I did put both units on a towel in the glovebox to prevent them from getting scratched but the whole assembly is very solid.

[ZaZZn]

Bishop been running mine for about 3-4 months now...

Just simple tuning though.. Can't find a fucking ignitor form a mitsu..


PIA.


I have the 2003UL chip.............

Very easy to tune though.

[Bishop92T]

Bishop been running mine for about 3-4 months now...

Just simple tuning though.. Can't find a fucking ignitor form a mitsu..

Sweet, what kind of injector duty cycle are you running? Good job on the ignition workup btw, I plan on using that setup, all I need is ignition advance when <1psi anyway :)

What's this about needing a Mitsu ignitor? You need a used one, new one, what's the deal?

[flubyux2]

check www.DSMtrader.com and type in the search for car parts "ignitor" and see what you pull up. be carefule though, some people on there are shady, you cant trust people on there as well as Ebay.com. id suggest scanning thru all the results to find a person who is close to your area and do person-to-person business and not over the net. thats how i did it when i bought stuf off there.

If you find a DSM in a bone yard, the ignitor is on the driverside rear of the engine, underneath the coil. There is a bundle of wires that runs down and goes to like a 9-pin connector tahts oval-shaped. ive never had to pull one before, but thats where it is if you find a pick-n-pull.

anyhow, if it stays pretty cool, id like to mount it in my dash somehow, like a stereo, w/ the knobs exposed, and the Profec E-01 port and PC port showing for easy connection, joo know what i mean?

With the igntion feature of the Emanage enabled, will it still have knock-referenced timing advance?

[drjonez]

the ignitor will have to be from a V6 mitsu....not a DSM.

[flubyux2]

My bad, thanks Jonezy.

btw, if someone does make this Ignitor work, please feel free to do a write up and a wireing diagram like Bish did for the Emanage base unit.. that would be quite helpful :)

SO, these cars:

Dodge Stealth
3000GT
Diamante
Montero
3G Eclipse
galant

should work?... they all have available V6's in them, so im thinking, they would all be the same 3.0V6, in various HP levels. anyone confirm this?

im not sure if they sell 3SI parts on DSMtrader.com or not, i never really looked. its worth a try though.

[Bishop92T]

Well that will teach me not to read the entire thread. I may have a line on a cheap mitsu ignitor, will keep you guys posted.

[drjonez]

i got my mitsu ignitor for free. ;)

i won't be messing with it for quite sometime though....

[flubyux2]

Jonezy :fawk: you get all the good deals

Bish... i have my Lex meter sitting on my entertainment center in my lving room and im dying to put it in... you think the manual controls on the side of the Emanage unit would have enough adjustment range to compensate for the additional air that the Lex flows? IIRC, the manual says its only + or - 20% adjustment, but what if the Air adjustment screw on the Lex body is screwed in and blocking off half of the bottom chamber?

[GreaseMonkey]

They say the Lex flows 25% more air. so you need to add 25% more fuel. If the emanage can only add 20% more fuel you either need to find a way to get the last 5% (fuel psi?) or tune the lex afm down to flow less.

[drjonez]

eh. if you have gauges, put the lex in now.

[Bishop92T]

The e-Manage manual says +/- 20% but the e-01 manual says +/- 50% as seen here (http://www.mohdparts.com/emanage/manuals/profec_e-01_manual/45.jpg) . There is a software update done when you install the e-01 so my guess is that's what the update does. The e-01 version is available at www.mohdparts.com anyone with a e-Manage that won't let them go more then 20% should try downloading version 1.29.

[ZaZZn]

Can one of u guys find me a Ignitor?! DR J?

It's q0398 hqigjo[kgj ing impossible to find the motherKJPALKDJSj in canada.... Since mitsu just came to canada...


Also I'm not sure what my duty is running but I have it -28 % at points so I know it's not too high under boost. Base fuel is 45 (psi) with vaccum off.

[drjonez]

just go ask around w/the 3si guys....

[Supramanmk3]

Is there any way someone can e-mail me a picture of what a mitsu ignitor(either diamante, galant, 3000gt, eclipse) look like or bosch 008 ignitor module for that matter, please?. I'll really appreciate it. Suprared88@yahoo.com.

I believe that's the missing part before I do the install of E-manage in my car.

[drjonez]

i'll post one sometime....

[Supramanmk3]

Bishop 92T,
I'm really proud for all the research you've done for the supra community. I was reading the May issue of Import Tuner and I came across an article about HKS F-CON V Pro and for what i understood, this unit does just about all the fuctions of the E-manage. What's your opinion about it?

Do you Know if anyone has solved the ignition retard problem supra owners have been having problems with?. Why would the mitsu ign. solve this problem? What does the Bosch 008 ignition module do?. Can I use the ignitor from some other import?. What is a IC ULN2003 and what does it do, also?. Is the E-manage unit plug and play like I thought it was? I'm sorry for so many questions but I need to know just in case I run into any kind of problem when I do the install in my supra. Keep up the good work.

:)

[drjonez]

man, no love.

[Supramanmk3]

The same thing goes for drjonez, my bad. ;)

[drjonez]

now that's more like it! ;)

the little i know of the FCON V is that is more complex than the eman. i know it has app specific harnesses and must be PC programmed...that's about it.

even though i think i've covered it on this thread (or others?) here's the scoop on the ign control on the MKIII:

toyota is retarded. (in a 6 cyl waste fire system) while most manufacturers use a 3 input (1 input/cyl pair) ignitor to drive their coils, toyo used a 4 input ignitor (logic combo of 2 inputs to fire 1 pair). sooooooooo, the eman cannot deal with this. add to that that the stock ignitor is low trigger (i think? need to double check), and the eman doesn't stand a chance of messing with timing.

there is no ign setup that will solve this. what you need to do is connect the eman to the output of the stock ignitor and ANOTHER ignitor to the eman output (the stock ignitor is converting the 4 inputs to 3, the eman is messing w/timing, the other ignitor is cleaning up the sig for the coils). the circuit that robyn designed is an invertor for the input to the eman (or the output to the other coil, depends on what coil you use), it inverts it from high to low or vice verca.

the eman is NOT a pnp setup. its much like the SAFC/SAFR, you wire it in and then start messing with it. you won't have any problems if you read the manual and follow the instructions....

HTH....

[Bishop92T]

man, no love.

LOL, poor jonez-y :)

The ignition thing is pretty much over my head.

As for the FCON V it is much clumsier to tune then the e-Manage and support will be near non-existant since it's not a common upgrade in the states. At least with the e-Manage there were many other car clubs using the unit with some good info out there. There isn't much useful that the FCON V does that the e-Manage does not.

I happen to have access to some old FCON V webpage I'll paste the text below:

"The F-CON V not only adjusts the fuel management system but can also adjust ignition timing and cancel each limiter function that is in the factory computer. It can be used for up to an 8 cylinder sequential injected engine, reading all signals of fuel supply, injection timing, ignition close angle and speed of each cylinder independently, altering data if desired. F-CON V controls the engine fuel and ignition map completely, with no changes to the stock CPU. Speed and rev limiter cut is also read and can be eliminated. The F-CON V can be used as a stand alone unit (no factory computer). The F-CON V uses air flow, pressure, throttle position 1, water pump, intake air temp, speed, and all other cylinder signals of the stock computer. It also uses pressure signals from the HKS Pressure Sensor, and output signals of all other existing HKS components such as the GCC, VPC, etc. By recalculating data from the original map memorized inside, it is possible to control functions more precisely than the stock computer. F-CON V contains a self diagnostic function which can determine errors not only in the F-CON V main unit or each input signal, but also the air flow, pressure, crank angle, throttle, water temp, and intake sensors. F-CON V stores up to 4 different fuel and ignition maps with access through the dip switch on the front panel when adjustment is desired.

Applicable to all kinds of fuel management systems - The F-CON V can work with almost any type of fuel computers, such as those determining the mass of the intake air by the flap door airflow meter, the pressure transducer or the throttle angle sensor. It can also control systems providing fuel by a single injector or multi injectors, controlling injectors simultaneously or individually, controlling spark timing simultaneously or individually, and those igniting by single coil with distributor or the multi-coils (direct ignition). Moreover, the F-CON V is applicable up to eight cylinder engines, controlling each cylinder individually.

Flexible system accpets all kinds of sensor signals - The F-CON V can understand almost any type of sensor signals such as any airflow meters, pressure sensors, throttle angle sensors, water temperature sensors, intake air temperature sensors, speed sensors, and crank angle sensors. Furthermore, addition to the original sensor signals, it can take signals that are produced by the HKS GCC2 (for the fuel and ignition) fuel mixture controller and the VPC. The F-CON V receives all of these signals and then processes the received data according to the maps and formulas installed in the EEP-ROM, as a result, it controls the engine more precisely and efficiently than the stock control unit does.

Directly controls fuel and ignition - The F-CON V directly controls not only the fuel system, but also the igntion system. It accurately reads the ignition timing produced by the factory controller, and then determines the best ignition timing considering the sensor signals and its maps. Therefore it manages ignition system more accurately than most ignition systems which trick the original sensors in order to make the original controller provide the desired ignition timing.

Capable of resetting fuel cut points - The F-CON V receives the airflow meter, pressure sensor and speed sensor signals before the original controller, therefore it can be set to prevent any fuel cut, such as high boost and high speed by limiting the signal passing through the F-CON V. In addition, the F-CON V controls engine beyond the rev limit by referring to the sensor signals and its map, even though the original controller stops providing both the injector and the ignition signal. In other words, the F-CON V is able to function by itself without receiving the signals from the original in order to extend the rev limit.

Scamble mode - Adding the optional scramble switch to the option connector at the front panel on the F-CON V, you are able to activate the scramble mode that increases horsepower at the moment. At that point, the F-CON V refers to set scramble maps. Since the scramble mode will be used for a short time period, the maps can be set so the engine produces the most power which might not be safe for long time use.

Diagnosis display - In case of failure in the F-CON V unit, the airflow meter, pressure sensor, crank angle sensor, throttle position sensor, water temperature sensor or the intake air temperature sensor, the self diagnosis system warns of the failure by turning on its error LED located on the front panel.

Capable of managing a fully modified engine - The stock ROM replacement systems can't control the high power engine which produces the output signal beyond the limit of the original sensors. The F-CON V, however, can control them suitably by using an optional pressure sensor and changing the programs.

Easy fine-tune - There are several maps to choose from. The F-CON V can be tuned by selecting the proper maps from four fuel maps and four ignition maps. On the other hand, the stock ROM replacement-systems cant be tuned easily. To adjust differences in the engine specifications or the other conditions, you can select the maps by the tuning dipswitchs on the front of the F-CON V, or use the optional GCC2 and the fuel mixture controller for fine tune.

It is easy to re-program using a PC - Upon connecting the PC to the F-CON V, data can be exchanged between the F-CON V and your PC. Data such as diagnosis and engine signals can be viewed. Furthermore, the program determining the management of the engine can be re-programmed from your PC, since it is stored into the EEP-ROM. Replacing the ROM is no longer needed.

Surpasses the stock control unit performance - The F-CON V processes faster, controls the engine more precisely, and has a larger map than any stock control unit (ECU).

No cutting of the engine harness required - The F-CON V can be installed without modifying the original harness or the control unit. Therefore you can easily switch the system back to the original by simply removing the F-CON V harness.

F-CON V is movable - The stock ROM replacement system has to stay with the original car in the event of changing the car to another model. In contrast, the F-CON V can be installed to another model by simply reprogramming it and purchasing a new harness (provided it is compatible). In addition, you pay a price mostly for the software for the stock ROM replacement systems, since a cost of the ROM itself is minimal. However, the F-CON V contains the value of both the software and hardware which will last for a long time.
"

[Supramanmk3]

Thanks for the input Bishop92T and drjonez!. I'll keep u updated of my progress with the E-man.:D Later.

[daniloreyes]

Originally posted by drjonez
now that's more like it! ;)

the little i know of the FCON V is that is more complex than the eman. i know it has app specific harnesses and must be PC programmed...that's about it.

even though i think i've covered it on this thread (or others?) here's the scoop on the ign control on the MKIII:

toyota is retarded. (in a 6 cyl waste fire system) while most manufacturers use a 3 input (1 input/cyl pair) ignitor to drive their coils, toyo used a 4 input ignitor (logic combo of 2 inputs to fire 1 pair). sooooooooo, the eman cannot deal with this. add to that that the stock ignitor is low trigger (i think? need to double check), and the eman doesn't stand a chance of messing with timing.

there is no ign setup that will solve this. what you need to do is connect the eman to the output of the stock ignitor and ANOTHER ignitor to the eman output (the stock ignitor is converting the 4 inputs to 3, the eman is messing w/timing, the other ignitor is cleaning up the sig for the coils). the circuit that robyn designed is an invertor for the input to the eman (or the output to the other coil, depends on what coil you use), it inverts it from high to low or vice verca.

the eman is NOT a pnp setup. its much like the SAFC/SAFR, you wire it in and then start messing with it. you won't have any problems if you read the manual and follow the instructions....

HTH....

What about using a Twin power ignition and let the emang to handle the fuel? Will thi setup work fine?

[Adam W]

This may be a UK thing, but HKS don't like end-users messing with the programming of any of their gear. Therefore I wouldn't be able to map the F-Con myself, instead I would have to take it to an authorised HKS dealer and pay $100 an hour for them to program it with the special HKS dealer-only software.

I think their reasoning is that people programming HKS gear incorrectly and melting engines could end up giving their gear a bad reputation. Anyone who knows the first thing about tuning will realise that this is stupid, but there you go.

[Adam W]

I've been meaning to ask this for a while but keep forgetting. I have an Apexi ITC installed on my car, and I can use it to successfully modify the timing map. I guess I could keep this unit for timing control, but it only has 5 rpm positions to make adjustments at, ie very crude. Which signal wires is the ITC tapping into, and how come that works while the E-manage doesn't? Would it be possible to wire in the E-manage like the ITC somehow, but use the big 16x16 maps to adjust instead of the 1x5 "map".

[buhbye]

The F-Con is also $1300 I think someone forgot to mention that part.

-Casey

[drjonez]

dan- not sure why you want to use the twin power, the stock ign is just fine....if you want the warm fuzzy of spending $400 on some ign components, just send the $$ to me.... ;)

adam- the ITC is able to work w/the aforementioned 4 inputs to the ignitor, the eman is not. (read my previous post)

[Adam W]

yep, I was thinking I had tapped the ITC into only three wires, but of course it uses four.

[Bishop92T]

Yeah, the Twin Power only increases spark, it doesn't affect ignition timing at all. And it's static, you can't change anything on it.

Adam you are correct about HKS and tuning. Just look at the EVC Pro, only authorized dealers are able to sell it and install it, it's just a damn boost controller too! I'm surprised they didn't clamp down on the sales of the S-AFR.

[Supramanmk3]

Bishop92T or drjonez,

I'd like to know how you have your car set up w/the E-man? What have you done to have it up and running?. What are the pitfalls I should look out for?. Thanks.

[drjonez]

what's to know? i have the eman installed as per the diagram bish posted, tuned for my car, das it.