bringing back the exhaust issue...this's gonna end up long so please bare with me

[*wishlist*supraTT]

time for me to start thinking about what exhaust to get... so i am asking every n/a mkiv owner to critique their exhaust. hopefully as well as blacksupra93 did on his intake... there are four different exhausts system that i am considering...

1.) greddy mx - because it's made for the n/a... it looks nice and clean, but not as aggressive as the other ones... it needs one of those intimidating mufflers... i hear the sound is not too loud, which is one thing that i like about it... but how does it sound? not too many people on the forum has this exhaust or if they do, they don't really say much about it... so i'm not sure about it... however i might end up buying this simply because of the fact that i will not lose any low to mid range power.

2.)hks hiper - not the carbon one, because i don't think it'll look too good on a pearl white supra, but i would like to eventually put it on the black supra... anyways i'm talking about the plain old hiper exhaust... not too many people have it these days... i just like how it looks... i don't know how it sounds... and it is pretty cheap.

3.)hks super dragger - thanks to daveh, i really really really like the sound of this exhaust... it looks nice too... however, i think it might end up too loud on my car, and no silencer to quiet it down when i need to... i had too much hassle from the cops in my last car because of exhaust... also, my car is kinda low and i hear that the piping hangs low and i wouldn't want to mess that up. and the large diameter piping still might slow me down. would this one be louder than 95db on an n/a supra?

4.)apex gt-spec - this one is cool too... i don't have a clue how loud it is but i hear from the forum members that it is really loud... can anyone expand on that? a good thing though is that it comes with a silencer... does anyone have any info about the silencer... how much quieter, etc, etc? apex claims that the silencer lowers hp but increases torque... i don't believe it though... any thoughts? it looks cool too... all stainless steel piping, one piece, and exits at an angle... and again it has the large diameter piping that may or may not decrease power. also wondering if this would be louder than 95db with the silencer off on an n/a supra.


if anyone can provide as much info, pics, and if possible sound files or video that displays the looks or the sounds of the exhausts, i would greatly appreciate it. i would even take info about the exhausts not mentioned here.

sorry for making this so long but this kind of money is a lot for me spend... hope you understand and please give as much feedback as possible... thanks for the help... :)

[toysupra1]

first off, you need to tell us what you exactly want out of the exhaust. loud or quiet tone? with most of the tt exhausts, you will lose some low end, given the exception of the greddy mx. with pretty much all exhausts, you will gain about the same amount of power overall.

pics can be had at mkiv.com...
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/exhaust/index.html

i have a greddy sp and recommend it for the sound. not too loud but just right at WOT.

i'll try to get a video of my sp tomorrow.

[93MSB]

would you consider the TRD? Im planning on taking some video tomorrow of that, my cutout, and my purge. ill post it if you want

[RCGsupra]

My advice, to save you a ton of money, is to just take off the muffler. I gained 5 rwhp by doing this, it sounds great, and it only cost me $85 just to have a guy make some pipes to exit out the rear. Just my sggestion.

[Dave Capone]

I have the GT-Spec I love it. That whole deal with the loss of low end power is bullshit. Yes the car is loud but its not annoying at all. My car sounds exactly like the 7.4L 454's on my dads boat. Its really loud and deep. I feel the car pulling slightly harder top end, it is noticable. The silencer is included and once put in is about as loud as the stock exhaust. I never run with the silencer in though.

[*wishlist*supraTT]

i don't mind having a loud exhaust but my girlfriend and the cops (especially the ones in my area) might... and i do a lot of driving with my girlfriend which is why i am considering the mx and gt-spec (which has the silencer)... but i really like the sound of the super dragger... and yes, 93msb, i might consider the trd but aren't they a little expensive... you have the 2nd gen right? i actually used to like the 1st generation trd exhaust but i hear it doens't make any power... can't wait to hear about that nos man... hope it goes well and be carefull... i don't plan on just taking off the muffler... it sounds cool and it is really cheap but i'd rather get a new exhaust system... by the way, rcgsupra, do you have any pics of it... thanks axion117 for the info. do you have any pics of different angles of the back of your car?

so i guess i make the same overall power with every exhaust... but if i lose some on the low end with some, then does than mean that my car got slower or more peaky (meaning that the powerband got stronger but still more narrow)?

[RCGsupra]

I don't have any pics right now. Basicly i just unbolted the big muffler, left the cat and two resonators on, and took it to meineke and had a guy weld some pipes together and had him make it so i could just bolt back on the stock muffler for inspection. When i first took it off, i lost some low end and gained some top, when i had the pipes put on i gained low end and top. To give you an idea about the sound, i was actually shocked. I was xpecting it to be really loud and annoying, but it's just a deep quality sound. anyways, my siggestion would be to do this first just to see how it works b/c u might be suprised and it will save you $700.

[93MSB]

the second gen TRD is $650 form Jay Marks Toyota, 20 bucks shipping for next day(witihn 200 milesof each other). We had some movies done tongiht but the camera forogt to record sound so =( I will try again tomarrow.

[toysupra1]

here's a video of my greddy sp...

http://www.angelfire.com/super2/mkiv316/videos/greddysp.mpg

for those who are bored, please rate my editing skills on an edited version of the my greddy sp clip...

http://www.angelfire.com/super2/mkiv316/videos/testing.mpg

don't be too harsh, its my first time editing with a digital camcorder.;)

[*wishlist*supraTT]

thanks but it doesn't work... it says...

Angelfire does not allow direct linking
from offsite, non-Angelfire pages,
to files hosted on Angelfire.

[*wishlist*supraTT]

i am now also considering super dragger 2... well that is if it sounds like like the super dragger... it comes with a silencer too... hmmm...

[Ryan P]

I think you will be happy with the Dragger 2. The nice thing about it is it's not loud at all, UNTIL you get on it. Then it turns into this fire breathing monster of an exhaust note that is literally the most pleasing sound I've ever heard. I haven't touched my radio since I bought the car! I'm serious! Besides, Supras are built pretty sturdy with an ample amount of sound deadening. When in the car, even at WOT, with the windows up, it isn't too bad. The sound of the exhaust is just overall pleasing. I also like the Apex GT spec. It looks better, IMO, but it's just not as throaty sounding. Deeper maybe, but not as throaty.:)

BTW, you shouldn't let your girlfriend be the deciding factor of what exhaust to get! Once you hear this thing you won't even want to hear what she has to say anyways!:D j/k

[*wishlist*supraTT]

pictures would be really helpful... since most exhausts will give about the same power gains, looks and sound is the critical factor... all i know about the dragger 2 is that it supposedly looks like the super dragger but has smaller diameter piping, smaller muffler, and comes with a silencer... but does it sound like the super dragger?

what rpm can you guys feel the difference than in stock form? are you manual or auto?

much thanks

[toysupra1]

*wishlist*, i sent you a video clip of my greddy sp to give you an idea of what it looks/sounds like.

edit: your email doesn't work.

[*wishlist*supraTT]

sorry about the email... you can send email to...

notaturbo@aol.com

[Ryan P]

I'm not sure what the diameter piping is on the Dragger 2. I know it's bigger than my downpipe which is 3". It's got to be 85mm or something. The exhaust doesn't hang too low. Check out their website. I'm sure it has the info.

[toysupra1]

the new www.hksusa.com website states the dragger2 piping is, in fact, 85 mm.

*wishlist*, have you checked out their website yet? they have some good info and pics of their exhausts.

[TRDSupraSE]

go with the hks super dragger exhaust....from what i hear it sounds awesome and quite a few supra owners have it on there cars...

I'm considering either the super dragger or the new hks carbon fibor exhaust/titanium tip exhaust...i think it'll look really nice on a black car...well good luck and tell us what u get:)

[vreaux728645]

Judging from the diameter sizes, these are mostly turbo systems. They do look good though;)
Any info on that IS 300? Damn, they even obscured the horsepower specs :(

[*wishlist*supraTT]

thanks for the video toysupra1... good quality vid.. by the sound of it your car was still cold when you did it... i think you tried to post two videos before... can you send the other one too? it sounds nice... deep and not too loud... similar to my old 300zx with greddy sp... i think the mx and the sp is the same exact exhaust with just a different tip... still haven't heard much about the dragger 2...

can anyone post vids or send email of their supra with exhaust?

- still undecided :o ... thanks

[toysupra1]

Originally posted by *wishlist*supraTT
thanks for the video toysupra1... good quality vid.. by the sound of it your car was still cold when you did it... i think you tried to post two videos before... can you send the other one too? it sounds nice... deep and not too loud... similar to my old 300zx with greddy sp... i think the mx and the sp is the same exact exhaust with just a different tip... still haven't heard much about the dragger 2...

can anyone post vids or send email of their supra with exhaust?

- still undecided :o ... thanks

yea, i recorded the vid real quick in the morning. it was pretty cold, thats why there was white smoke. the other vid is just an edited version of that same one. i was messing around with a video editing software.

[*wishlist*supraTT]

is getting one of the larger diameter exhuast systems better for me in the long run since i am still planning to upgrade performance with as much as the aftermarket has to offer such as cam gears, etc, or won't it make a difference?

out of all the exhausts that i've mentioned the hiper seems unlikely. i really want to find out about the dragger 2. sometime soon i will be calling under pressure and sp engineering about some of the questions that are still on my mind and some prices.

thanks for helping this far guys. any additional comments?

- still undecided :o

[*wishlist*supraTT]

Originally posted by *wishlist*supraTT
is getting one of the larger diameter exhuast systems better for me in the long run since i am still planning to upgrade performance with as much as the aftermarket has to offer such as cam gears, etc, or won't it make a difference?

so i guess i make the same overall power with every exhaust... but if i lose some on the low end with some, then does than mean that my car got slower or more peaky (meaning that the powerband got stronger but still more narrow)?


- still undecided :o

can anyone answer the questions quoted above?

about the drager 2, a guy at under pressure says that it sounds almost the same as the super drager except a little deeper and less tinny.

[toysupra1]

all i can say is if you plan on going turbo in the long run, any exhaust made for a TT will do just fine. most of the TT piping is similar i believe...~85mm more or less. but if you don't go turbo, then the greddy MX is your best bet for the most performance since its made especially for the mkiv na.

[BlackSupra93]

hey man,
nice odo reading you got there. have you had to do any kind of repairs...tranny, engine...etc? i downloaded your video....good picture quality. to me the exhaust sounds just slightly deeper than the stock one...((judging by your sound clip..but im sure you didnt rev it to high, and also..comp speakers arent as good as hearing it in person.)) and also..in the stock system i noticed revving when not moving and taking the car to the same rpm's while moving sounds different. may just be my ears..but i think the stock system is deeper when moving((if you listen from outside the car)) is this the same way with your sp? i am almost set on MX...but i DO want louder than stock sound....i want deep and throaty..but not necessarily loud. people on this page are making the dragger 2 sound like a quality exhaust in the sound dept....but it seems to me the piping is aimed straight at a TT, and that will make a difference. the bigger piping is aimed at higher pressure output such as turbo's...and it is my understanding that this will create a lack of backpressure((i think thats it)) in the NA's. this means noticable loss of low end and tacking on back on in the top. that may be good for all out racing..but i want a smooth all around so i can mess around with some mustang gt's and such off the line(i should have around 235-240 BHP after an exhaust). ((PS...v6 firebirds are fun to toy with. i didnt really race it but we did near the speed limit and he tried just to sit next to me and then pass me and i just put the gas down alil farther and he went away rather quickly. we both hit a red light and he sat like half a car in front of me waiting for the light and i just took off on green and he wouldnt come near me again)) it seems to me the MX is the best exhaust to keep a smooth and flowing powerband, with the most streetability. i am basing this on word of mouth and not personal experience tho. so can you tell me if the exhaust is notably loduer in a deep throaty kind of way. one way to tell the true sound of an exhuast is to have someone film or audio you flooring it down a street. dont get me wrong i do appreciate your video clip you put on..but is there a chance you could have someone film it going thru the rpm range down the street?
thanks for the help so far.
Bob
after i get an exhaust ill give you an opinion on that same as the intake..but that might be a bit...im 17 and need a job...my seasonal job just ended.

[toysupra1]

Originally posted by BlackSupra93
hey man,
nice odo reading you got there. have you had to do any kind of repairs...tranny, engine...etc? i downloaded your video....good picture quality. to me the exhaust sounds just slightly deeper than the stock one...

whats up bob! thanks for the odo compliment. only repairs so far have been new water pump and rear wheel bearings.

as for your exhaust decision...if you don't plan on going turbo and staying normally aspirated, the greddy MX is the way to go. designed specifically for the mkiv na, the piping is smaller and you wouldn't lose any low end power. all other exhausts mentioned are made for tt models and the piping is large enough to lose backpressure as you mentioned.

for my video clip, i was revving up to ~4500 RPMs and it was on a cold start. i made the video real quick and didn't have time to warm the engine properly. i will try to get a video or sound clip of my car revving through the gears though.

for my exhaust sound, the best way to describe it is its deep at wide open throttle. its not exactly throaty though. but it is definitely a bit louder than stock. at cruising speeds, it is just a tad bit louder than stock, but once you hit the gas, its a lot deeper.

i hope this helped you.

[BlackSupra93]

hey!
what can i say, ? but wow! 190k on a new water pump and bearings...and i was cautious of looking at supras with 90k mi. do u have the targa? did you hafta ever redo the sealant around that. u definately have a sweet car. i hafta confess...my dad payed for most of the initial cost of our car..with the agreement that i fully maintain it, pay insurance, buy rubber, gas sometimes. good deal to me being 17. i care for it greatly. we managed to score a 93.5 NA auto with 39K mi back in march. its got 47,4xx miles on it now. runnin great. it smells rather hott is the best way to describe it after driving...im not sure if that is normal..i know when the oil was changed a tiny bit was spilled in the engine area...could this cause a smell. the only other this is this that i noticed twice. we hit a pot hole once and a rather big bump(big bump by sports car suspension standards) and i noticed a rather loud suspension pop. whats that? did you ever experience that.
anyway...what other mods have you done? intake? thats all ive done so far, made a noticable dif. if you are looking for one read the thread "thanks to thomsoncharm, intake impressions"
i do appreciate your info..the problem with computers are the fact that you will never hear the same sound thru speakers and the human ear. it just doesnt translate...but a first gear run through into second would at least give some sort of comparisson. the exhaust sure does look great on the car tho((and an especially nice looking car given the mileage)) huge and intimidating look. i forget if you posted earlier on about feeling a difference or not. for 600 and some dollars i want to feel a difference, (and hopefully hear it :p ) one thing...what kinda gas mileage are you getting...after the air filter...ive dropped from 19.x to about 17.3...does that seem logical for about 10bhp? i did notice that it gave my auto a more agressive shift pattern...usually about 1k rpm higher in each gear...in most cases...would this constitute the drop in mileage?
i really appreciate your taking time to help out other supra owners, if you can get a new video up kool, if not, youve already been helpful. thanx for all information...if youve got anymore, keep it comin:D ((hey, you can never know too much about your car :cool: ))
Bob

[*wishlist*supraTT]

i believe that thing you said about the sound being a little different at neutral and while driving because that's how it was on my old car.

i don't think that i will be getting the drager because that picture of the pipe on the hks website shows how low it really hangs and dayyum, i don't think so... however if i had a turbo, i think i would still go for it... i can't take away that idea of getting the mx even though it doesn't look as aggresive to me.... and of the turbo exhausts, gt spec vs. drager 2... i guess the drager 2 is still a new exhaust and not many people have it, nor are they that interested because a lot of the turbo owners are looking for the larger diameter piping such as the ti... and after all this thinking i'm still not set on one... thanks for all your help guys... just a little more info on these exhausts that i mentioned and i'm set... merry christmas all.

[TRDSupraSE]

Hey I'm just curious but is price an issue??

I can get the HKS Supra Drager II for $475 shipped...how much is the regular Drager cost?

Oh another exhaust for you to consider is the HKS Carbon Fibor/Titanium exhaust...it has a carbon fibor canistor and a titanium tip...not sure about the material of the piping but I heard you can get it in a 75mm pipe if you like...oh one more thing...it comes out at an angle...as the Super Dragger II (and I) comes straight out the back...hope this helps:)

[TRDSupraSE]

Oops..forgot to mention the cost of the HKS Carbon Fibor/Titanium is $675 shipped.

[*wishlist*supraTT]

it's not really a price issue... i'm not interested in the carbon hiper ti cuz i don't think it'll look right on my white supra (i could be wrong). but on my dad's black one, it'll look nice. i believe you said the same thing about it looking good on a black supra as did i. anyways, the main thing for me is not so much performance as is looks and especially sound. thanks for the price quotes but i can get the drager 2 for pretty close to the same price and the place isn't too far away. and i think the super drager sells for around $700-something. again, merry christmas all.

[toysupra1]

*wishlist*supraTT, you have a cool ass dad! :) :cool: :)

[toysupra1]

Originally posted by BlackSupra93
hey!
what can i say, ? but wow! 190k on a new water pump and bearings...and i was cautious of looking at supras with 90k mi. do u have the targa? did you hafta ever redo the sealant around that. u definately have a sweet car.

yea, my supra has a targa top. the sealant around the targa top itself isn't the leaking problem on mine. mine was the front windshield letting water through. i just resealed around the windshield and it fixed the problem, but i did a really bad job of putting the sealant on. looks like crap! i need a new windshield anyways, i got a rock chip that luckily didn't penetrate through and no cracking so far.

about the "hot smell" you mentioned, i have no idea what you mean. is this smell coming from the inside of the car? do you do your own oil changes? if you do, remember to always use a funnel when putting in oil. but i always spill a little oil from removing the oil filter and i don't have a "hot smell" or any sort.

i heard a "popping" noise in my rear passenger wheel once and nothing else. not sure what exactly is the problem though. maybe new shocks are need. but i do have that infamous rear squeaking noise :mad: :mad: :mad: because of a bad bushing on the control arm.

i just finished my intake setup. here's the thread i started...

http://www.supraforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17447

it has some pics of my intake. yea, you do notice a difference but nothing major. you can really feel it after ~4000 RPMs. i did notice a drop in miles per gallon. but i'm not sure yet. maybe its because of my foot getting heavier on the gas pedal :p. i have to look into this more on my next fill-up.

if you want the most performance from an exhaust and don't plan on going turbo in the near future, the greddy MX is probably your best bet to get the most power out of.

[BlackSupra93]

hey
the hot smell is just that....well even when a supra runs right in the middle of the temp guage(which mine does) its still a hot running car. i know this because when cooling down it clicks a lot...most toyotas do..this one is louder than our avalon tho. there are 2 types of smells i notice with the supra, both from outside the car. after i get home from running around...normal acceleration..4.5krpm in first gear, about 4k rpm into second and then just settle in about 5 mph over the speed limit. when i park it in the garage and get out..heres what i notice. if i go to the rear of the car, i smell a rich gasoline smell which is most probably normal considering the grade of gasoline. not a punguent smell but just noticable. if you go near the front after the car is off u can smell a slightly hot smell...not strong, but hot...i actually notice this is the avalon once in a while too...if u smell right where the hood meets the fender u can smell it. again, i thinks its just that toyota engines are hott. moreso if you take them to high rpms , then i smell it alil more. next time you go out , when ya shut off the car just pay attntion and see if the front of your car smells hott...sorri but thats the only way to describe it.
we let other people do our oil..my dads got big hands and cant get his arm down to the oiler location...and i dont trust myself yet...ill wait a year or two til i know more about cars. we let the guys at a shop do it and they spilled some... a tiny puddle abouthalf an inch wide...and its just sitting there cuz i cant reach it..so maybe i just smell that burning off.
as far as the exhaust...MX sounds like the best...i dont ewant to hear constant droning on loud trips so i like audible rumble and nice deep loud sound under full throttle((when i feel the need to just let myself go :D )) does that fit the MX . ill write more later
merry christmas to everyone
Bob

[Huy]

Question for you boys. Is there any difference between the NA/TT exhausts, ie. the hangers on the piping? Seeing that some of you have the Super Drager and such installed on your NA, was there any modification or welding of extra hangers on the piping required?

I currently have a GReddy SP on the car, but I don't know whether or not the shop had done any mods.

I just picked up a Super Drager for a crazy deal and will be installing it in a day or two.

If anyone is interested in a TRD exhaust, let me know. My buddy is selling his for $400.

Huy
huydvu@hotmail.com

[toysupra1]

Originally posted by Huy
Question for you boys. Is there any difference between the NA/TT exhausts, ie. the hangers on the piping? Seeing that some of you have the Super Drager and such installed on your NA, was there any modification or welding of extra hangers on the piping required?

I currently have a GReddy SP on the car, but I don't know whether or not the shop had done any mods.

I just picked up a Super Drager for a crazy deal and will be installing it in a day or two.

If anyone is interested in a TRD exhaust, let me know. My buddy is selling his for $400.

Huy
huydvu@hotmail.com

tt exhausts fit our nas with no modifications. complete bolt on. i have a greddy sp on my na and it required no modification at all.

by the way, that price for a TRD exhaust is pretty damn cheap. someone pick it up!

[Huy]

Toysupra, thanks for the response, man!

I've got a GReddy SP but it has two holes in it due to rust. I'm gonna get it fixed up by having a straight pipe put into where the SP splits into 2.

The HKS Super Drager will be put in tomorrow...I'll look forward to the new sound. The SP was so damn quiet...quieter than stock!

If anyone is interested in purchasing the GReddy SP from me, drop me a line. I'm willing to let it go for $150 (plus ship).

Huy
huydvu@hotmail.com

[*wishlist*supraTT]

please let us know what you think of your super drager... i still can't make a decision... what's wrong with me damn it... o well... soon, very soon i should be ordering one... lateZ

[Huy]

Funny thing...I realized I got a hole in my Greddy SP exhaust last Tuesday. So, I called up a few friends and such, asking if anyone they know is selling exhaust sytems....

I came across the TRD unit that I mentioned earlier, and the Super Drager that I purchased myself, and also a brand-new, in-box Super Drager.

The brand-new, Super Drager is $500 if anyone is interested. I know that most places sell it for $650 or so. The Super Drager can be picked up if you are in LA or Orange County. Let me know if you are interested so that I can tell him to hold it.

As mentioned, it is brand new, in the box. $500. So now, I found so many people selling exhausts that I sound like an exhaust salesman myself! lol...

Huy

[Huy]

The Super Drager sounds AMAZING!!!!! I just got it put on, fitment it purrrrrfect! The exhaust isn't too low (my car is lowered with 18's and Eibachs)...the sound at WOT is simply awesome. Compared to the Greddy SP, this exhaust is deeper (SP sounds a bit more tinny).

On the freeways, it's not loud or droning. I love this thing! I LOVE IT I LOVE IT I LOVE IT!!!

What are you all waiting for??!! Go for the Super Drager!! Honestly though, it is not loud for an NA. I've had a Greddy Power Extreme on my Honda Prelude which was louder!

Huy

[BlackSupra93]

hey,
glad you like your exhaust. wanna get us a sound clip of it>? im still in the decision phase between this and greddy MX ((why am i hearing of so many rusted greddy's..? :( ) how much louder than stock would you say it is at like 3k rpm ((cruising speed)) also...does this one angle out or come( (or at least close to)) straight out the back?
the only thing you have mentioned is sound so far though...dont get me wrong..sounding good is a must....but we need you to rate it performance wise....come across as a salesman here...show us the good((but contrary to a salesmam...complain too..we need to look at it from all aspects)) the SP from what i understand is very similar to the MX...am i correct on this..? or is it closer to a TT exhaust. main thing is...did you lose low end? i have the stock system on now and greddy is more expensive...but it is a true NA exhaust that wont sacrafice low end...and i dont take mine up high all that often. so can you rate this for us performance wise...let us know about its power curve... and then post a sound clip :p
Bob

[Huy]

Performance wise, it is about the same as the SP. Hard to tell with the butt-dyno. In terms of low-end, I do not notice any additional loss vs. the SP. Up over 4KRPM, you will definitely feel the power.

In terms of noise, at 3K RPM, it's not loud at all. Once you have an exhaust, you will know how to modulate the throttle so that it runs quieter. At WOT, it is loud...but sounds very sweet. It's kinda weird describing exhausts...it's all relative. I don't have a digicam that can record mpg's or avi's...sorry.

As for performance, I didn't expect any performance gains by adding an exhaust. On the NA..."performance" gains are always small. On a TT on the other hand...it is quite noticable.

The Super Drager comes straight out...similar to a Greddy PE. If you guys want to see pix of all the available exhausts, go to the mkiv.come site and check the tech section. There are pix there.

Complaints about the SP:
- the exhaust rusted out due to holes in the metal resonators/silencers. Had there been no resonators, then there would not have been this problem. I don't know if any other exhausts that have these resonators/silencers.
- too quiet.

Any more questions? Drop me a line.

Huy
huydvu@hotmail.com

PS: in case anyone was interested in the TRD exhaust, I just sold it.

[BlackSupra93]

hey,
quick question...MX is NA specific exhaust...is this the same for your SP? or is SP have larger piping like TT's. i noticed u said no more loss of low end than SP...well...since im still on stock...is there any other way u can put that? like...umm...in terms of street driving...does it start to feel like lag? i mean...where does the loss take place...how is low, mid and high classified? right now my power band puts a good amount under 2200 rpm..which makes the tires shudder..but not nearly enough to break traction...just strong enough to be felt...its like its smooth...then slightly rough..then smoothe again...but only like this with used tired. i changed the tires and it went away. theres about 4k on the tires now and im feeling it again..so ive condluded its the amount of power to the tires. so would the loss take place under 2k or the loss takes place from 0-3500rpms? i dont want to lose alot of low end...but maybe just enough to lose the shimmy in the tires. ( i have an auto)
i like the idea of having a plentiful top end...but id rather have a well balanced powercurve...with a good sound also. so now i hafta decide whether i want all out WOT power or a well balanced rise of power. so can you break it down anymore to as where the power loss is and where the gain begins. thanks for the help,
Bob

[Huy]

Bob, the Greddy SP (80mm piping) is NOT NA specific...it was a TT exhaust. I have a TT Super Drager (95mm piping) on the car now. I think the MX is the only NA-specific exhaust...someone correct me if I am wrong.

Since it has been over a year and a half that I have had a stock exhaust, my memory isn't too good with how the car felt stock. Had you asked me this question when I went from stock->Greddy SP, I would have been able to answer your questions better. I can only use by butt-dyno on a comparision between the SP vs. Super Drager.

Driving around on empty streets in 2nd or 3rd gear, the power comes on very well anywhere around 2k rpm...then you feel the power curve at when the tach is at about 12 o'clock - 1 o'clock (don't remember what rpms those are). After that...the needle reaches redline pretty quick. I've got a 5spd, so it may be different than an auto.

Best bet is to meet up with someone in your area who has an exhaust. Ask for a ride in their car or something...it's kinda hard to gauge the differences in exhausts just by reading.

The biggest 'grin-factor' has got to be the sound. It sounds simply amazing...even my next door neighbor complimented me on it today, saying it sounded better than the last (Greddy SP)! I've been turning the music down and rolling the windows down, just so i can hear it better :P

Best of luck,

Huy

[Soupskees]

its sweet and sounds hella tight. I'd recommend it, i notice high end power a lil more now. got up to 120mph hella fast today.(at like 3-400rpm's)

[*wishlist*supraTT]

making me think about the super drager again...hehehe... it does sound nice huh... but no silencer... another thing to note is that it looks a lot bigger in person than it does in pictures (really big tip)... Huy, did you buy the new super drager? if it was used, do you know how many miles was put on it? do you think that the exhaust would attract the cops in your area (i'm in the cerritos/long beach/lakewood area)?

Soupskees, i basically have the same question for you that Blacksupra93 has... do you feel a loss in low end, and when do you feel the power come on? and if you can, could you put up some pictures of the back of your car at different angles?

one more for anyone, how loud is your new exhaust compared to the stock?

[Huy]

Wishlist, if you want to see/hear the Super Drager in person, let me know. I am in Costa Mesa, which is just a hop/skip/jump away from the LB/Cerritos area. Give me a ring, 714.609.4655

If you have a stock exhaust, you can drive my car and be able to compare the loss/gain between the two with your own butt-dyno.

I have no problems with cops, since they are always chasing the Honda/Acura boys anyways. I just don't drive like a psycho when around cops.

I bought the Super drager used...it was on a car for less than 3 months. The thing is in excellent shape, and I got a deal too! Woohoo!

If noise is your concern, I really don't think the Super Drager is loud at all, compared to many fart-can Hondas or Acuras out there.

Huy

[Soupskees]

yeah i'll try 2 post some pics up later today when its light outside.

I notice the power most at 4000 rpms, nice and loud outside and louder inside as well. did i lose low end? not really
did u see import tuner they did an Apexi N1 exhaust on an NA supra and lost 2lbs of torque but got 14 Hp to the rear wheels, thats great for top end man.

[Xdreamer]

the artcile you are talking about is wrong. thats dyno graph is not for a n/a supra look at it then compare it to a stock enigne graph and you will see. i saw the artcile and was going to call apexi to see if i could get a mkiv specic real dyno graph of there exhuast . i havent had time yet. i might just go with a r1 carbon fiber canister and one 2.5inch pipe for now, this way i get rid of the two heave resonators and 2 pipe and the two into one muffler . just a idea it will only cost me about 325ish for evrything. plus ill loss a couple pounds(10-20) ishlbs im going to weight the stock sytem compared to what im doing. ill lose some weight and gain a couple horse its a win win. weight matters especially in a n/a
evrything counts.


and by the way look how low the horespower is on the stock vs car with exhuast it. i know n/a have low horsepower but 130ish no way whats that like 40 percent drivetrain lose from 220 . its looks like something is off.

Xdreamer~

[BlackSupra93]

Hey guys,
let me know if you guys work anything out. sounds like wishlist is in the same boat as me here...unable to decide.((where are all the MX owners out there to help us :) )) if you decide to compare exhausts please let me know as this will help me greatly. be overly critical too :p . i realize it will probably to very difficult as to determine if there is a drop..but please try.
just a side thought: speed limits should be raised by 10 mph for true sports cars. top end power is great..but lets face it..on normal driving my auto will shift outa first at 4000 and then by the time i get to like 3500-4000rpms in 2nd im breakin the speed limit!!:rolleyes: i say raise the speed limit and let us have fun with our new sweet sounding toys :p .
Bob
PS. good luck to wishlist on deciding

[Soupskees]

i know the graph is wrong, but the graph doesn't show the 14hp gain on it, its wrong to the NA specs and to the gain they say it added. So i think it was the wrong dyno picture but same results.

[Xdreamer]

what size pipe does the apexi exhuast use? and is it one pipe or on intro two in to one like stock? and how bug is the inlet and outlet of there muffler. if they are going to print a article like that they should make sure th dyno is for the right car or make sure they say what the dyno was really for. also is the aoexi loud? meaning would i always have to use a silencer in it if i dont want to get harassed by cops locally. Thanks Brett

[*wishlist*supraTT]

if you're asking about the apex gt spec, i believe that it's 95mm piping with a 115mm tip... polished stainless steel all the way through. exits at an angle.

[Soupskees]

u can get a silencer for it, i like the sound a lot, sounds like power and not a go-ped. The stock NA is 2 smaller pipes going opposite directions and coming back together at the muffler right? Well the N1 is one FAT pipe coming Straight back with no bends, releasing backpressure and the lag between the two seperate chambers and giving generous HP gains and a very slight torque loss. Its nice man.

[vreaux728645]

If you check www.mvpmotorsports.com you'll see two Apex'i N1 exhausts.:) From what I've checked, the N1 is close to the Dragger from HKS.

[*wishlist*supraTT]

i don't get it... what do you mean when you say that those two are close?

[vreaux728645]

The diameters etc.

[lawn boy]

does anyone have a video or mp3 of the super drager or super dragger II?

[*wishlist*supraTT]

found a little more info on the drager 2... the exhaust will only pass Japanese JASMA noise levels with the supplied baffle insert fitted, so is similar in decibel output to the Hiper Muffler without it. A good system for someone who wants an exhaust similar in appearance to the Drager but is prepared to suffer a slight noise increase for a good financial saving...

still waiting to get some pics of the exhaust from ryan...

i am wondering about the piping... the stock exhaust has 2 pipes that join at the muffler... many of the turbo exhausts have just one large pipe, some straighter than others... what is the reason for the stock exhaust being the way it is (2 pipes)? and does one larger pipe give the same effect as the 2 pipes?

[Huy]

Without the silencer, it's as loud as the Hiper?? Holy crap. I don't know, but if you have never heard the JDM version of the Hiper...it's "hella" loud. A buddy of mine who is in Irvine had this on his bpu TT...it sounds like a freakin domestic. Everyone who ever heard his car jokingly said his exhaust sounded like a Mustang or Camaro running a Borla setup. Deep, rumbling...and LOUD.

[lawn boy]

I love the look of the drager, i love its fat, round, polished canister look compared to the straight edge, racing look of the hiper/n1.

[*wishlist*supraTT]

how does the sound of the jdm hiper compare to the sound of the usdm hiper?

huy, if you don't mind i might give you a call next week to take a look at your super drager... by the way, is the other one already sold?

[Huy]

Wishlist, just give me a call. I am going to be out of town from Tues-Thurs... this weekend is free, or give me a call on Monday.

I have not heard the USDM Hiper vs. the JDM to compare. JDM is damn loud though...

Huy

[BlackSupra93]

in comparison...how loud is the dragger VS. the dragger 2? im almost set on doing the dragger ...sounds nice...and not too loud..am i correct on this?m also.... i read that u hafta modify something under the car for it to fit right...is this tru? i forget what u hafta modify...maybe flange or something...i dont know.
hit me back,
bob

[Huy]

The TT exhausts require NO modifications whatsover to fit the NA... complete bolt-on.

[mkiv808]

In my TRD catalogue it says that TRD makes both a non-turbo and turbo version of their exhaust. Is this a misprint?

[*wishlist*supraTT]

i went with the drager 2 and i would say that without the silencer, it is kind of loud at normal street and freeway driving speeds... with the silencer put in, i wouldn't say that it is as quiet as stock, just a little louder and deeper. looks pretty good, although not as good as the drager... needs a bigger muffler... performance-wise, i feel no loss at the low rpm's and a pretty nice gain up top all the way to redline. the pipe that i was concerned about on the drager exhausts that hangs low is not a factor on the drager 2... it has the same bend but doesn't go as low as the drager.

[BlackSupra93]

hey,
whats the difference between the dragger and drager 2? im lost here...is the 2 NA specific, whats the piping size and all that good stuff...i was considering th dragger...now i wanna know about the dragger two... dont silencers cut power? please send me some websites that carry this exhaust, becuase i looked it up alittle while about and i couldnt find ANYTHING on it. thanks
Bob

ps. i listend to a clip of the dragger on a TT and it didnt seem too loud...i mean yea it was significantly louder and probably would drone at highway...but i dont mind this. i just dont like the stock sound..and i dont want to lose the low end that the original dragger might cause...can anyone refer me to a picture also?

[*wishlist*supraTT]

i don't think that the drager 2 is n/a specific although craig paisley's website advertises it... 85mm piping...120mm tip... i was considering the drager also and probably still am considering switching to it (because it looks so damn nice..hehe)... i guess silencers are supposed to cut power... if it does, the difference is very minimal... i don't feel any loss on the low end... most websites carry the exhaust now... search it through google.com... one website that comes to mind is suprastore.com... i wonder if the drager is quieter during normal driving... anyways, the sound of the exhaust when you open up the throttle is really nice, both with the silencer and without... when i was driving it at first i thought it sounded like one of the hondas 4 bangers but after a while of driving it gets deeper... then i let my cousin drive it up and down the street and it doesn't sound like a honda, much deeper... let me explain the look more... the look of the muffler is a little different also... on the drager 2 it's smaller... it is cylindrical shaped and a little bigger than the tip, and goes straight back (like the tip, unlike the stock muffler)... if you looked at the back of a supra with the drager exhaust, the tip is not centered on the muffler... there's more muffler to the right of the tip than the left (i guess it's because the wheel) and the muffler is bigger too... i guess the main reasons i picked this one is because it has a silencer, piping is smaller than 95mm, and it's one of the less expensive exhausts.

[95 Dawg]

Well... my dragger arrived today, and 30 minutes later, me and a buddy had it on... the only reason it took us that long, was that the dragger is HEAVY! That sucker is HUGE... I expected it to be big, but... I never dreamed it would be that big. The sound is... well... completely awesome. It’s extremely deep sounding... Its actually not that loud though.... Unless you get on it... then it lets everyone know its there. It ran me a pretty penny, but I think its well worth it. It looks and sounds great. If your thinking about this exhaust, go for it... the loss of low end, actually wasn't as bad as I figured it was going to be, but... its there, but after 3000... you can feel the extra flow... When the tires break loose in 2nd, I slide sideways pretty good now...

If your in a debate for this exhaust... shell out the extra cash... you'll understand why when you pop that box open...

[*wishlist*supraTT]

ya the piping looks a lot bigger than expected... i'm considering changing mine to the drager again... i don't know... i already spent so much on this one... o well... how is that bend on the pipe that gets close to the ground? have you scraped it yet?

[Huy]

See what I mean about the Drager? More happy owners....the Drager sounds great!! Most people think that it's super loud, but it isn't really... :bthumb:

[Soupskees]

but dragger is tight too.

[BlackSupra93]

alright guys,
those are the choices for me. help me out here with a quick comparo:
dragger: 95mm piping and 135 mm tip ? looks good, sounds good. LOSES SOME LOW END, has a spot that tends to hit the ground. fill in on anything i missed. oh yea ~680 bucks.(supra store)

drager 2: 85? mm piping and 130? or 115? mm tip. i have no clue what it looks like. it fits better under the car. compared to the original dragger how does it sound, meaner or quiter? does the silence come with it or is it an option? how do you install the silencer..can it just pop in and out? about 620 bucks i think.

i need more info on the dragger 2 guys..i havnt been able to find pics on google...any one wanna help me out? mainly i want the deep grumble at idle and a throaty sound at WOT..but i want as much info on both before i decide. thanks
Bob

[95 Dawg]

I have been worried I would scrap it, but I haven't so far... (knock on wood) I got my dragger for 675 from Chris at Horsepowerfreaks.com... he's a really nice guy, and has been hooking everybody up lately.

I haven't heard the dragger II yet, but... I don't think I even want to, I am in love with the sound of the dragger. Don't worry guys, you won't regret it.

[Huy]

In terms of scraping the SD, that will happen if you go up a very steep driveway. I am lowered with Eibachs and have only scraped under extremely steep driveways/roads. If you think that the driveway is too steep, just take it easy and drive it up slowly or at an angle.

I had sold a brand new SD in the box for $500 to a supraforums member a week ago...that was a deal. Same with a TRD catback exhaust as well...no one here emailed me at all!

[*wishlist*supraTT]

about scraping on a steep driveway, i've pretty much perfected the "angling/drive slow technique"... for the supra, you don't really need to do that much... i think that normally the tip would be scraping and not that bend in the pipe... how bout those high speed bumps and things where angling the car won't do any good because it is just too low... $500 was a really good deal, too bad i wasn't there in time...


answer to blacksupra93:

drager - 95mm piping and 130mm tip... still looks better than the drager 2

drager 2 - 85mm piping and 120mm tip... if you consider a louder sound is a meaner sound, then i would say it probably louder... the silencer comes with it... it is easily installed with one bolt and i guess you could say that you pretty much pop it in and out... $620 is wayyyy too much for the drager 2... it retails for $595... i think it was page two where someone (trdsuprase?) said that he can get the drager 2 for $475 shipped... that's sounds like a good deal to me. any more questions? just ask.:)

[vreaux728645]

Any one tried the Blitz NUR SPEC?

[*wishlist*supraTT]

didn't find out that the full cat-back nur spec exhaust came with a silencer until after i bought mine... i'd pick that over the apex exhaust... it looks good... but i hear it's really loud... and i believe that the piping is 75mm.

[BlackSupra93]

i have the same concern as wishlist...what about high speed bums,(the highways out here are pretty sh*tty)) or speed bumps...i normall slow down to about 2 for speed bumps..but i still want an idea of how much clearance i'll have.
louder doesnt necessarily mean meaner...but i like a mean sound...but not a sound that i hear from the next city...ya know? i think im 99% sold on the SD1 right now.
thanks guys,
any info is appreciated
Bob

[jakemarietta]

After reading all the posts, I still can't decide. I'm looking for exhaust that has a low deep rumble like a V8. Not too loud at crusing speeds. Minimal loss of lowend power good ground clearance,etc. Considering these specifics, what do you guys think? Thanks!

[*wishlist*supraTT]

i hear the nur spec has a deep rumbly tone like a v8 when it's on the n/a supra but sounds loud.... i have the drager 2 and it's rumbly and loud too... inside the car sounds different from the sound from listening outside the car.

[vreaux728645]

Thanks, can't deal with the outrageous noise level though......

[*wishlist*supraTT]

the drager 2 exits straight. email me if you're interested in buying it.

notaturbo@aol.com