Final Oil thread to endthem all.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Here is the deal: I’m so sick of the ‘which oil is best’ threads that I’m going to take the time out of my 60-80hr work week to do some testing and put an end to this. I seriously hope that after this people will waist a lot less space on SF with dumb oil Q’s and that SF will start some new ante oil thread policy to punish all the none searchers posting about ‘which oil do you run’. For thaws of you who do not know my work, go search for the SSautocrome manifold thread I started and you will get some idea of how serious I am about my testing.

I will be buying the first 6 qts of oil my self (I’m not maid of money) and taking care of all the equipment. If there is a different brand/type of oil that you would like to see in this test, go out, buy a qt, PM me for an address and mail it to me (or donate to my paypal and I can pick it up), I’m dead serious, I will test up to 30 brands/types. In particular, it is hard to get royal purple or Mobil 1 15w50 around here (also blood, I here some one is using it, well bring it on {JK}, but I will test it) and I would love to add both to the list if anyone wants to get a qt for the exp. As a side note, If you are willing, run your oil for 2500 miles, change it, fill up a bottle (clean it before packing it and rap duck tape around the cap to help seal it) and mail it, I will test used oil as well for durability (engines running properly, known and marked oil brand/type and try to keep the miles as close to 2500 as possible for consistency).

I will be buying the fallowing oils:

Mobil 1: 5W30
Mobil 1: 10w30
Castrol Syntech: 10w40 (will also do a used durability test set as this is what I have in used)
Castrol blended: 10w40
Castrol GTX: 10w40
Valvaline Racing: 20w50

This is the best compromise I could come up with to provide a selection of weights and types within my budget.

I will be testing the fallowing properties:
-Hot and Cold viscosity comparisons.
-Hot and Cold coating (staying on your parts over night so there is some there in the morning at start up)
-Hot and Cold slipperiness (actual lubrication).
-Weight per unit volume.
-Wetability (how well it flows over a surface and into cracks).
-Water rejection.


We have set procedures for all of the above tests that will be strictly adhered to in order to maximize consistency and repeatability. If you can think of any other test I should perform, post it and how it may be done and I will add it to the list (within reason).

I will start the tests the day after my younger sisters wedding (July 17th), that gives you guys 13 days to add to or make remarks. Testing will take 48hr to 5 days depending on the # of samples.

Side note and off topic, but I NEED Shadow Grey Interior parts for my new project car, PM me with price and what you have. The int in the new car is totally trashed hard corp, (int parts I do have money for in this quarters budget). Also need Fog lights and 89+ tail/license plate lights.

Edit:
Adding Castrol 20w50 and lucis oil additives to the testing list.

Edit:
Adding Mobil 1 15w50 to list, others on way, we will see what is coming.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Oh I forgot to mention, if you are wondering, hot is going to be 180 (parts drying oven at work) and cold bill be the freezer.

[Buttmunch]

+1 for you and I vote sticky for this thread so people don't even have to search.

[suprafly1986]

could you test one of the high end oils too (eg redline, royal purple, amsoil..) i would be interested to know

[ZaZZn]

Hey add Castrol GTX 20w50 should only be about 1.50 a quart. Also I'd like you to test Lucas oil additive... PM me how much I should send you via paypal .

Thanks,

[blackout_89t]

Hey add Castrol GTX 20w50 should only be about 1.50 a quart. Also I'd like you to test Lucas oil additive... PM me how much I should send you via paypal .

Thanks,

Ditto on the gtx 20w50. I use that as well....

[GrandLordKhorne]

I don't know where to get royal purple out here but I would love to test that as well if some one wants to mail a qt.

[Durrr]

also check out www.bobistheoilguy.com. A whole bunch of oil nuts have ALL this stuff already tested :)

[PbXAssassinX1524]

You should definitly test out Amsoil as well. Supposedly the best synthetic made.

[TaSe]

i vote for who ever wants something tested by this guy to mail him a qt. :)

[figgie]

GrandLordKhorne

dude, You are going to give SF a rap about testing stuff which is damn fine :)

Cany uo get amsoil? If not i can get that for you. You might have to order Royal purple through mail.

[GrandLordKhorne]

For everyone's information, I will be out of town until Friday to visit a synthetic oil manufacturer. I'll catch up on Friday.

[tissimo]

I can get mobil 15-50... i'll send you a quart

I'll look around and see what other oils we got here that i can send (will send 1 other quart)

EDIT:I think i can get amsoil... what weight should I get?

[Keithh]

You will want to try to contact Chris Jensen about this topic. He has been doing testing since before I met him in 1997. He probably has more data than anyone here really wants to see but it is really GREAT info.

Keith

[williamb82]

can you get amsoil 10w40 in your area? if so, how much, and the pay pal address please. thats what i plan to run when my new engine is finished.

[Supra87T]

A somewhat odd request as I doubt anyone will WANT to use it.

ROTELLA-T, find it at Wal-Mart. I use it in my Prelude, want to use it in the Supra when its revived, my wifes whole family uses it in EVERY VEHICLE THEY OWN and her dad used it in his big rigs. From what I was told he used to do oil testing for oil companies and this was his best result oil.

It lasted OVER 10K miles in my Prelude before I noticed ANY problems with fuel mileage, knock, rattle, or oil pressure. In the Prelude, if your oil pressure is low, you will go into limp mode and have no VTEC and a reduced rev limit. that did not happen at all until right around 10K. I would be interested to see how it fares against the more pricey brands that I have used like Castrol GTX which DID NOT last as long as the Rotella has in the Lude.

[stratoayu]

anuther 2 which would be interestign

esso 10w30 (aparently one of the best oils)
castrol syntech 5w50

[audioman81]

I second the idea of using the cheap walmart oil. I forget where i saw it, but thier full synthetic is supposed to be better than mobile 1, just wondering if its true.
Ryan

[adjuster]

I was looking at the WalMart Full synthetic oil yesterday. Interesting stuff, but I'm not going to be the one to try it out on my expensive motor :)

Ended up buying the "new" Mobile One 15/50 "good for 15k" according to Mobile. (I run two filters, and have been using this stuff in all my cars for years, two oil changes per year on each car, I don't care how many miles are on the oil, but have changed the filter a few times inbetween oil changes using the Mobile stuff.)

I'm also going to add a bypass filter to my Audi since it's working so well on the Supra. (The Q45 get's no love, and will likely be the test car for the WalMart synthetic oil.... LOL) At least I run a Napa/Wix filter in the poor car.

bob is the oil guy has some test data, but he really wants to sell you the Shaffer oils. (I've used them in fleet service before, and they were excellent oils. Our diesel service trucks had the oil changed every 3500k, and ran for 400k or more on each engine. (Transmission and rear diff lube from Shaffer too, and very little wear, or sludge build up there too.)

I'll have to send you a sample of my Mobile One oil when it has 15,000 miles on it, but has been filtered to 1 micron all the time by the Oil Guard, and full flow filtered down to 8 microns by the Canton depth filter. (Traps water too BTW, but when your oil is heated up past boiling point, the water should turn to steam, and be drawn off by the PCV system.)

One other test that would be helpfull is what temp each oil starts to vaporize at. I realize any water will come off at about 200f, but how much oil vapor is released by the oils at that temp too?

Could be done in a beaker with a coil off it to condense any vapors, and measure them. The best synthetics claim to have a very high resistance to being vaporized, and forming deposits. (Another test that would be interesing. Could be done on a hot plate, with a measured amount of oil covering just the bottem of the skillet. Bring it up to 300f, and see what happens. Then 350, 400, 450 and so on till the oil fails and burns off. I think 450f is an oil temp rarely exceeded anywhere in our cars. (Even in the turbo housing, but IDK, possibly it might be higher in some cases.)

The vaporization and burning test are not done by Bob, or anywhere else I've looked. (Bob just likes to poke fun at Lucas, and mostly sell his Shaffer oils.) LOL

Thanks in advance for the testing. This is interesting stuff. (Like the data from the guy who tested oil filters, and found that Fram is the worst, while WIX and Purolator are pretty good when your looking at paper type filters.)

[Supra87T]

LOL @ the Super-Tech oil. I refuse to buy it, but this would be an interesting test. Remember the Rotella-T is NOT a "wal-mart" oil. its also sold in auto parts stores. but only a few here, I know Napa does not sure of where else. but I definitely second the wal-mart Super-Tech oil. Lets see some underdog battles.

[ARTSUPRA]

also check out www.bobistheoilguy.com. A whole bunch of oil nuts have ALL this stuff already tested :)


This is just one Big OIL forum without any general conclusions :dunno:

[audioman81]

I ran the full synthetic walmart oil in my camry and toyota pickup since it first came out and never had a single problem, but i am using the castrol synthetic blend in my supra which is what the previous owner used. I havent switched to mobile 1 yet, but there was a huge sale a couple months back and it was about $2 a quart so i bought enough for like 4 yrs or so. :) but anyways, I am more than willing to send a couple bucks paypal to have the walmart synthetic put the the tests. as well as a couple more for a frying pan or whatever you need to do the tests mentioned by adjuster.
where do i send payment and when will we see the results?
thanks,
Ryan

[NJsupraA70]

Id like you to test some amsoil 20w50. Pm me your address. thanks

- Steve

[malloynx]

yea, i'm really intrested in AMSoil. i run the 10-40 and love it. it's 6.50 a quart but i really don't care.

and for filter . NAPA GOLD(wix) awesome filter.

[PbXAssassinX1524]

Id like you to test some amsoil 20w50. Pm me your address. thanks

- Steve
Yea, this is what I run as well. And when I said Amsoil before... this is what I actually meant.

[stratoayu]

can u also test tranny fluid :D

[Durrr]

This is just one Big OIL forum without any general conclusions :dunno:


give you a clue : lower PPM is better :)

look at oil analyses. low copper/iron/high moly high TBN are all good stuff

BTW, Rotella T is a Diesel HD oil, thats why it lasted so long. High detergency content

[fiebru]

this is a genious post i used castrol on my sup20 50 baby

[adjuster]

I don't have it anymore, but there was an excellent article on oil by Pat Bedard of C&D magazine. He covered many of the features you might want in an oil used in a daily driver, or a car that sits all week, and might get driven 4 hours out of a month. (Or just a weekend car.)

The basic conclusion was the oils formulated for most Diesel trucks are better for cars that sit than off the shelf "auto" oils. (More soot control, corrosion inhibitors, viscosity stabilizers and other additives like detergent to keep the inside clean.) I have been very tempted to run the Rotella T, and Delo oils. (Any "synthetic" diesel truck oil basicly.) Also like I mentioned, we used Shaffer diesel oil in a fleet setting, and it was very good at keeping our trucks running 400k or more. Keep in mind, these trucks were used in rotating shifts, so were barely cooled off in some cases before the next shift would take them out again. And the policy was to keep them plugged in 100% of the time they were parked, even in the summer time. (Block heaters to keep the engine warm.)

Anyway, Bedard's article suggested using oils rated for "Compression" fired motors like a diesel v/s SJ or spark fired motors. I belive it's either CF or CJ, can't remember, just look at the "seal" required on all oil containers, or read the data on the packaging.

At work now, if I have an engine that fails, and is suspect for wear and tear, or some other non covered loss, we pull an oil sample, and have Cleveleand Tech run tests on the sample. It gives us metal contents, checks for antifreeze and other contaminants, and generally indicates if the motor was in good shape, or was toast. (Amazing how many people sudddenly get their car stolen and it's recovered burned when the motor or transmission fails.....) When that oil comes back thick with bearing lead/copper and other metals, and is like jello from being never changed, we have actual data to support our case should we need to make it to tear the motor down to confirm it was toast, or further question the owner for more details.

I'm looking forward to the data from the new oil tests.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Ok I’m back from my trip (so cool that some times my job coincides with my SF stuff, this trip was totally not planed for research but was an actual pipe system check). I went to a maker of what is called Molyvan 855 (hope I spelled it right) which is supposedly the actual lubricant in automotive synthetic oils, needless to say, having seen how they make it, there way overcharging us. In it’s pure form Molyvan 855 is very slick but not really hi-temp or anti-gunk friendly (we baked some on a ladder in the sun by accident).

I have said it once and I will say it agene, if you want it tested, PM me for my address to drop it in the mail, or offer to Paypal for it (assuming it is available in my aria). Also, we have some one sending amsoil, I would still like to get royal purple (not available in my aria). I can do the truck oils as well if you want.

I can do gear oils at a later date if there is an interest, but I will not be testing auto trany fluid (really have no interest in auto tranys, sorry).

We have decided to get a little more wild and sophisticated with our tests than originally thought, so expect about one test per day stating two days after I get back from my sisters wedding (gives me the first day to run the first test). We are aware of the oil forum and of other articles and such but aren’t really happy with the information that is there, so we are shooting to provide not numbers (we will have some) but rather direct comparison of brand X is more/better/less than brad Y.

A special Thanks to all who are helping out with oil or whatever ells, keep it comeing.

We still need used oil for post comparisons (would be thrilled to see that Mobil 1 at 15k). We require, brand weight, filter type and miles run if you want to send a sample (it only takes like ½ a qt.).

[audioman81]

what are you going to do with the used oil? my supra needs an oil change really bad, it has castrol sythetic blend in it right now and it is dirty as all heck, might have something to do with the fact that i just started running 14psi instead of 6psi which is all the car has ever seen before a couple months ago :)
prevous owner did a hg, but not sure if its metal or not, so im just waiting for it to blow..... hopefully not until late fall. please email me or pm me your mailing address and paypal account and ill send you a sample of my oil as well as $10 for supplies and a qt of walmart synthetic. you can get that right?
thanks,
Ryan

[andrew18]

That Rotella T does seem to be great stuff. My father purchased a 94 Ford 15 passenger van with a 7.3L diesel motor in it. When he purchased it it had 450k miles on it i know thats crazy but he drove it till it had 580k on it and sold it. It was owned and operated by a shuttle service that ran from Columbia, MO to St. Louis about 400 miles there and back. There were never any engine problems but since it was ford everything else non engine related had issues. Most of their vans lasted 500k+ plus miles. I know this seems insane but its the honest truth that they lasted that long. Ran the vans all day long and plugged in the block heaters at night. So that stuff has to be pretty good stuff. Would be awesome to see some stress test's on the Rotella..thanks for your hard work..

[GrandLordKhorne]

We have 10w40 and 20w50 amsoil on the way now. I will be picking up Walmart brand Synthetic.

I want the used oil to do a comparison of new Vs beat oil and see if it retains it’s lubricating ability and other properties post abuse. This way we could rule out any oil that brakes down to quickly or too much to be usable. Include as much info as possible when sending used oil!! A big part of this is that the lubricant it’s self has issues that they resolve with additive packages that allow better thermal resistance and prevent breakdown, with used oil we can see if breakdown is occurring or if the package of additives lasts.

[Supra87T]

I believe Rotella has a Natural as well as a synthetic. We have always used the natural oil.

[supradupafast]

Every Oil Manufacturer goes through a SAE Testing before they can Even put their Products On shelves.. I prefer Castrol Syntec myself, but that's because I love 2% Milk in my Cereals, as others prefer 1%... They will all do the job right.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Has nothing to do with just doing the job. I’m doing this because I want to know which will meet my need the best. Just because they meet a minimum standard dose not mean there all the same.

I still need more used samples guys… Anyone have a used sample w/ Lucas in it??

[BigTSetter]

Which 20W-50 AMsoil are you testing. Also, i have pretty much ANY! test that you want done with motor oils FROM Amsoil. THey have done several different tests between their synthetics and the competetors. Since i'm an Amsoil dealer i can send you ANY! Amsoil product you want to test.

If you want access to any of my information of want to purchase from me just PM me. I honestly don't know how "on top" i'll be with this thread.

HTH,

Bryan

[GrandLordKhorne]

I really don’t know which amsoil is in the mail on it’s way here, but if you want to mail some samples the more the merrier. I’m well aware that every oil company out there has done a lot of testing and has a lot of numbers put way some place, but the hole point of this is that I’m totally independent and 99.99999999% non biased (the only oil I have any natural aversion to is pensoil). I’m doing this not for numbers but as a comparison for reference. Testing starts on Monday.

[CTsupra]

i'm looking forward to the results! i have a feeling this thread is going to be around for some time!

btw, you should be able to order any royal purple oil, or any others from a local performance shop if there's any in your area. if i wasn't broke as hell right now, i would go buy a couple of different weight quarts and send them to you.

good luck with the testing!

[BigTSetter]

Hey, check back with me with what Amsoil weights you have. I would personally like to see the Series 2000 20w-50 and the Turbo Formulated 10w-30. Let me know.

Bryan

[GrandLordKhorne]

CtSupra. The resin I asked others to send it if they have it is that I’m on a budget for this experiment and have already exceeded it by quite a bit. Believe me when I say I’m just as flat broke as most other people with a Supra addiction and I’m still fighting to get a hole new interior in and new tires on, plus get my car to pass inspection without having to revert to my days of living on white rice and ramen. I feel your pain man.



I will say this once and only once for everyone. Thank you for your suggestions on where or how to obtain cretin products (not aimed at you CtSpra), but I simply have no local sources for some types of oil (there is no local speed shop or performance store, we have Autozone local and a NAPA about 40 miles away, I order on line). I have already gotten $48 worth of oil and $133 in testing equipment out of my own pocket (I also robbed my work place for some stuff on this one), for all of our benefits. I don’t need to be reimbursed for my expenses but if you would like to see more products added, either send it to me or fined out if it’s in my aria and chip in guys. I do know that a one qt of oil is not that pricy, but relies I have my own bills and my wife would kill me and kick all your @$$es if I told her we where going back to our total poverty mode over an oil experiment. So I have set a cost limit and I’m sticking to it. PLEASE DO NOT pm me saying ‘dude this oil would be cool to see in the tests and it should only be like $1.50, you can handle that at least’! And for you that sent more than the cost of the oil you wanted me to buy, way cool and every penny has gone to widening the selection.



We have added Valvaline Durablent and Synpower to the list being tested and still more is on the way.

BigTSetter, I will keep you informed, I know I have 2 synthetics on the way, but I would love to see the Turbo formula not just in the initial tests but also in the used stuff.

Testing starts on Monday. It will take a wile to get threw it all but I will post some results as I go.

[appleguy]

Thank you for undertaking this. We all realize it is both time consuming and expensive, but literally does the public good. Even just finding out what oils are especially crappy is important and worthwhile.

That said, generally accepted knowledge states that thicker is better for the engine. A lot of people swear by Mobil 1, so I was wondering why you chose 5W-30 and 10W-30. It seems like they would test very similarly. However, I and many others use Mobil 1 SuperSyn 15W-50. If you've already bought the oil (likely), don't worry about it at all. Otherwise, you might consider swapping in the thicker stuff.

Again, thank you for the service :bigthumb:

[GrandLordKhorne]

I already got most of the oil in hand, I picked the 5w30 and 10w30 because I have tried both in my car and have gotten very different performance data (I take all sorts of data on my car constantly as a engine monitor and as a development tool), so I’m wondering what the difference is. We have some one sending 15w50 Mobil 1 so it will be in the test. But I’m always happy to provide data for throws who are interested/après heat it.

You should be seeing the first results on Monday or Tuesday night.

[audioman81]

I will be sending the samples of used synthetic walmart 10w30 and castrol syntec synthetic blend 10w30 out on monday. only question i have is if i pour out of my oil pan into the new bottle, there will still be residue of new oil in it and will probably alter the results, unless you have an idea how to clean it out first. also to the guys that sent the oil already, what did you put your samples in and did you use the new bottles, and if so did you clean them out? Did you have a problem with the post office sending oil or have to tell them its hazardous or flamable or anything? just wondering.
thanks,
Ryan

[ZaZZn]

when are you starting the tests?

[GrandLordKhorne]

I will be starting testing late Sunday, but it will be going all week because I have not gotten all the oil being sent yet.

As far as mailing used oil, Clean out the container with Dish soap like Palmolive or the like and rinse twice. Please duck tape the top on at tight as possible to prevent spilling and then tie inside a plastic bag before boxing it up. You may or may not tell the post office what it is, that is up to you.

I’m actually at my parents place in MI for my sisters wedding right now, I will be home Sunday evening.

[dziuggy]

it would be great if you would test Red Line as well, since it is one of the most expencive race designed oil ($8 a quart) found online and most performance shops. also here in bay area our local toyota dealer cary red liner as well. it would be very interesting to see if the live up to their claims to have best oil

ziggy

[GrandLordKhorne]

Relatively important update.

I’m robbing my father for some of his high end chem. Stuff (he a PHD chem. Eng) so we will be adding a test to the list (but not chem Analysis I don’t have that sort of room in my luggage).

New Tests:
- Specific heat capacity for liquid state.


Also note if you are mailing new oil and have not done so already, please send it by the end of the day Monday, if you have sent oil please PM me with exactly what and when you mailed it. I gave my address to a lot of people say that would send brand X but not the weight, so I would like to be able to put a final testing list together some time before I start posting results (so I can list what is up and coming).

If you are sending used oil, seal it super good and please PM me when it hits the mail. Also please mail the used samples by Friday or contact me if they will be coming at a later time.

For your reference, we have just placed an order for a Titan DP, a Random 3” cat and a Tanabe SHM (the SHM is on backorder), so look for reviews on them to be posted in the early fall. We are also working on raising money for a set of Tein Flex coil overs that we will run tests on before/after installation as well as before/after geometry corrections are made to the suspension. We are also thinking about rubbing our motor with Cheetah blood to see if it increases power output (just kidding)

You should be seeing the first results for these tests on Monday night, testing starts tomorrow when I get home from the airport. I will be responding to any thing in PM and this thread late tonight for the last time till Monday night so if you have a Q or comments post it now.

We where thinking about making club T-shirts agene from our club for our project MkIII, I’m wondering if anyone would be interested in T-shirts with crazy cartoon penguins in racing gear on them. We would haft to get approval from Admin to offer them here and we are getting our new designs in a couple of weeks (my sister used to work for Disney as an animator, she dose our art work).

[Proficio]

Investing some time in researching oils you will find all have been testing in the manners you are suggesting. Different oils work better in different motors. The best way to determine which is best in a 7MGTE is to compare UOA's for wear indications.

Alot can be learned from the forum bobistheoilguy.com

[2jzMK3]

Bottle

how about Redline Oil, I might be able to donate some.

I would like to know what tests are going to be done, because I have done a lot of recent tests on Oil and how much viscosity oil looses after using it in race applications.

[audioman81]

"2jzMK3"
can you post your results on viscosity loss?

[2jzMK3]

"2jzMK3"
can you post your results on viscosity loss?

It was with meth, so it would not pertain to street applications.

I would like to do something with our dyno as well as anaylise oil down the road, I just dont have the time in the day to get it all done and a motor to abuse by doing it with so many oil brands.

[Gocasen]

How much longer on test results i thought this was completed lol and i was reading and reading and i get to page 3 and nothing :( big let down.

Thanks for doing this we owe ya.

[GrandLordKhorne]

You had but 4 min to hang in there...

The first oil data.

First of all, if you do not see a brand or so forth in the list don’t panic. I have not received any oil in the mail yet (when did you guy send it?) and I’m limiting the number of samples I work with at any given time to make life easier (the oil mixed with lucas should be up tues/wends night). Second, I’m sorry but I had an exceptionally bad day at work and limited myself to some of the simpler experiments for this evening, some of the friction experiments should be up in the next 48hr.

Now down to biss:

Observations:
It may be meaningless but synthetic oil with the exception of Mobil 1 thus far has been significantly darker than conventional and blends.

Conventional oil is generally harder to mix water into but it separates out of synthetic much faster. This is where the Mobil 1 shined, showing the best balance of difficult to mix and quick to come out. Lucas by it’s self was far to thick to even remotely mix with water.

Lucas by it’s self sticks to everything like honey (my wife is going to kick my butt when she gets home) and according to the bottle can be used as an assembly lube. I’m betting good money it would make a darn good assembly lube and I would bet the “staying on the parts over night test will confirm that.

Numbers:

Wetting test (adhesion Vs cohesion)
From wet to cohesive: Mobil 1 10w30 (15mm), Durablend 10w40 (15mm), GTX 20w50 (13mm), VR1 20w50 (12mm), Syntech blend 10w40 (11mm), Synpower 20w50 (11mm), Syntech 10w40 (10mm), GTX 10w40 (10mm), Mobil 1 5w30 (10mm).

The measurement in the () in mm is diameter of the spot left by a single uniform drop after settling for 1 min. What this tells us is weather the oil likes to stick to it’s self or spread out over the steel plate. It is more desirable to have an oil that is wetter or less cohesive because it will more readily coat a part and by nature proffers to travel into small cracks/crevices over a more cohesive mix. All the oils demonstrated at least good Wetting ability

Actual Viscosity was tested using a plate of polished steel mounted at a 45 and then individual uniform drops of oil where timed on there travel between two markers spaced 2”.

From quickest to slowest: Mobil 1 10w30 (28sec), Mobil 1 5w30 (37sec), Castrol Syntech 10w40 (43sec), Castrol GTX 10w40 (44sec), Durablend 10w40 (62sec), Syntecblend 10w40 (64sec), Synpower 20w50 (67sec), GTX 20w50 (115 sec), VR1 20w50 (136 sec) and the lucas took 2min33sec to get 1.5” before we gave up on it.

To understand the above data, a thinner (quicker) oil provides better fuel econ and power, thicker oil provides better protection but is harder to pump.

Weight and water resistance will be posted in the morning upon completion and more info tomaro night as well.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Weight and water rejection data:

Weight is expressed as g/ml and was taken just as a basis on which to do calculations in later experiments. We obtained weigh by weighing a 10ml sample then dividing by 10 (giving us weight per ml).

Syntec 10w40 .8g/ml
Syntec blend 10w40 .8g/ml
GTX 10w40 1g/ml
GTX 20w50 1g/ml
VR1 20w50 .8g/ml
Synpower 20w50 .7g/ml
Durablend 10w40 .9g/ml
Mobil 1 10w30 .9g/ml
Mobil 1 5w30 .8g/ml
Lucas (by it’s self) 1.3g/ml


For water resistance, we added 5ml of MA tap water to 10ml of oil and swished it around for 60sec to agitated as best as possible. Then we let the samples settle for 15min and checked to see if the oil layer had completely separated from the water layer.

To our surprise many oils separated but left the water at the bottom in a sticky foam of bubbles that did not simply pore out of the beakers. These oils are listed as having foam. Other than that we looked for our distinctive line at on near the 5ml mark on the beaker.

From best to worst:

Lucas: The water got thick but there was a clean differentiation at exactly 5ml.
Syntec 10w40: Outstanding, negligible foaming and clean separation at 5ml
Syntec blend 10w40: Good separation 50% water sample foaming.
Mobil 1 10w30: Good separation, 60% water sample foaming.
Mobil 1 5w30: Good separation, 65% water sample foaming.
GTX 10w40: Good separation, 75% water sample foaming.
GTX 20w50: Good separation, 75% water sample foaming.
VR1 20w50: Moderate separation, 60% water sample foaming.
Synpower 20w50: Moderate separation. 70% water sample foaming.
Durablend 10w40: Acceptable separation with 85%-90% foaming.

Having done this little experiment I think if I ever got noticeable water in my oil for any resin what so ever, I would probably do a major lubrication system flush to get this sticky foam out… It was a bit of a shock just how much the foam would not mix back in and how well it adhered to the plastic beakers. Inside an engine it would be enough to cause brakes in the oil delivery to important parts.

More data will be coming tonight.

[audioman81]

I changed the oil in my car on monday morning, but did not have enough time to change it in my girlfriends car, hopefully she gets here before she has to go to work so i can change it quick and still ship it out today. I didnt wash the bottle out with soap first because i didnt want the soap or water to contaminate the oil either so i had a whole oil pan full of oil and used a cup and funnel to fill the quart with used oil 3/4 of the way, put the cap on and shook it up for about a minute and emptied it into my waste oil bucket. I did this 3 times so i am pretty sure i got all the good oil out of the container as best i could. I then filled the bottle up and wrapped the cap with black tape, then duck tape and put it in a ziploc bag. I will do the same with the other bottle as soon as i get it changed. now to the whole point of this post- I put the oil in the box, and shook it, i could clearly hear it was liquid and from experience with shipping things the first thing they ask is- "is it breakable, flamable, or liquid?" I didnt want to lie right to thier face and hear it gurgle when they took the box off the counter so i called the post office first to see if they would ship it. I told them streight out that it was used motor oil. first they said no, cuz its flamable, but i argued with the guy and finally he got out a manual that said what things you had to do in order to ship flamable liquids and they are determined by thier flash points. I quick looked online for the flashpoint of motor oil and they ranged from 390deg-450deg F and there was no specail requirements for anything above 200deg F so it can be shipped in any way as long as its sealed well. so for anybody that was scared to ship their oil, get on it and just tell them the truth.
I'll be sending mine out yet asap, sorry for the wait on my samples.
Ryan

[GrandLordKhorne]

Tonight’s data…

I just put the first 5 oils into dwell on my 24hr part adhesion test to see which oil stays on your parts over night the best, so expect thaws results Wednesday night (probably late, I promised to take my wife to a movie to make up for all the oil samples in portion cups in her freezer).

I got all the Lucas mixed samples (I’ll try to get the walmart oil in that batch) set up for tomorrow evening when I’m going to do the viscosity comparisons and wetting tests on thaws. I may even get wetting test and weights on all of them as well.

I started the specific heat tests tonight, though I have not crunched the numbers to get the actual specific heat I will be posting the raw data (these tests take 25 min each so they eat up a lot of the time I have set aside to do this for you guys). Water (distilled) was run as a base line, then each sample, I ran a synthetic, a blend and a conventional tonight just to get a cross section of general data and was really surprised how close the oils where to each other. On a side note when they came out of the freezer for this test they where all pretty thick but the synthetic did seem a little better than the others for staying thin enough to be a good winter choice, that data is coming soon as well.

Temps where taken in 5 min intervals, in a room kept at 72.6F, each one was 40ml in a brand new plastic beaker (man I go threw a lot of lab ware at home) and the weights per ml are listed in an earlier post.

Water: 46.9F, 52.3F, 55.4F, 57.3F, 59.1F
Syntech 10w40: 17.4F, 22.6F, 33.4F, 42.6F, 49.1F, 53.7F
Syntech Blend 10w40: 17.9F, 24.0F, 33.2F, 41.3F, 47.4F, 52.1F
GTX 10w40: 21.2F, 28.9F, 38.8F, 46.5F, 51.8F, 56.2F

Stay tuned for more data and testing! I’m working as hard/fast as I reasonably can but this one will take some time.

I also just got a Carbon Fiber autometer boost gauge I will need to play around with (I’m going to use some lab grad meters to test its accuracy just for kicks.

Man for some resin SF is being sort of odd and slow the last couple of days… how odd… They need more bandwidth or to find out what/who is eating there’s up and fix it… I’m just glad I type on word (because my spelling is really atrocious to spite my vocabulary) or I would dump a lot of this to time out opps.

[SacoMan]

This thread is very very interesting, I thanck your effort

[tiki240]

do we have a clear winnar yet? gotta change oil in mine ina few days

[GrandLordKhorne]

Sorry I’m tuckered out tonight and I will haft to post some more data in the AM. On the up side “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory” was a relatively good movie and my wife forgives me for the oil in the freezer (she is so understanding). On the down side I’m still trying to get an interior for my car and everyone that says ‘on ya I will sell you mine, I can ship it no problem as long as your willing to pay’ than a week later when they have a shipping estimate it’s ‘well shipping it means I haft to do this and that and it’s just a big hassle so you will haft to drive the 850 miles to where I live and pick it up at the same high price I quoted anyways’. I have one guy I’m waiting to here back from and if it’s the same deal I’m going to a dealer, I’m sick of driving around with a trashed interior in my Supra (sorry to vent it has been a trying week, I’m dealing with my least favorite client and burring the candle at the other end for this oil thread plus in the middle fixing my car up for inspection next week). If I haft to go to the dealer for an interior I will haft to put my upcoming suspension analysis on hold for a while.

[GrandLordKhorne]

First over night sticking to the part test is back and what an upset, this is the first test with clear results to favor an oil.

The test was conducted by dipping some washers on a hanger into the oil for 10 sec then suspending them oven night (for 24 hrs) and weighting them to determine how much oil had remained on the parts. Washers originally weight was 10g.

All of the parts still had at least a thin film of oil but only 2 of the first 5 retained a measurable quantity.

Data:

Syntech 10w40 11.5g = 2ml
Syntech blend 10w40 11g = 1ml
GTX 10w40 10g = 0ml
GTX 20w50 10g = 0ml
VR1 20w50 racing 10g = 0ml

Clearly the synthetics are winning this battle, and to me it’s an important one, because oil retained here means oil on my parts when I turn the key in the morning.

I put the second round of these test together last night in lou of post some results and I haft finished a round of cold viscosity and wetabuility test, I will post thaws results tonight (when I finish the round) and the next set of these probably Friday morning. I should also have more spec heat data posted some time tonight.

[audioman81]

its too bad you didnt have a really accurate scale like the one i have at work. the question is how accurate were the measurements of the washers in the first place? the scale i have at work is good for measuring down to .0001 grams. If i have time, i might bring some oil samples to work and try the same thing with the washers. the only oils i have on hand are mobile1 synthetic 10w30, mobile1 synthetic 15w40, castrol syntech blend 10w30, castrol syntech blend 20w50, walmart synthetic 10w30, and quaker state regular 10w30 oil. It would be cool to see if i had similar results as you did, and another test within this would be cool if the oil was heated or chilled before the tests, just like an engine is warm and the oil might stick better, or probably more likely worse to the metal parts to see if then there is a difference or if the regular oil picks up the slack there when heated.

interior wanted- have you tried looking around for re-upholstering places? would probably be cheaper than the dealer, their prices are outragous on all the parts i got quotes of from them. or ebay? what color are you looking for? if anything pops up ill let you know.

Ryan

[Gocasen]

Looks like Syntech blend 10w40 is coming out a head. (or i don't know how do read your test results :))

[GrandLordKhorne]

There will be a cold how much oil stays on the parts test done when I can free up some space in the freeze (EG over the weekend), but I don’t have access to an oven that can sit hot for a long time without some one disturbing it and besides the car cools down after a while… Well I might heat the oil dip it and then leave it a room temp to be more realistic in the test…

Our scale is good to .001g but we are rounding in order to eliminate some of the minute variables and just going for general quality data on a usable level. We did however shave all the washers to within .05g or each other in weight and we did record exact weights on each set before starting the experiments. It would however be grate if you want to repeat the experiments or broaden them to verify results.

Yes, Syntech 10w40 is out in front, but there are more tests to do and data to acquire so I will not jump the gun on this one. Actually it dose not surprise me that the synthetic oil would be out in front but I’m interested to see where the Synpower ends up when I get that one caught up in the testing. The funny part is how many people swear by the VR1 racing and it’s really not that impressive for it’s price and so forth.

[GrandLordKhorne]

There will be more, later but here is a start for tonight.

The autometer gauge if anyone is wondering is reasonably accurate, though more accurate at the extremities and more accurate under boost than vacuum. It was spot on about 10psi boost and spot on below 15in/hg

First friction data is in!

We took measurements dry, with a thin oil layer and with a proper oil coating. Everything is listed as a percentage of dry friction to make comparisons more simplistic.

Dry: 100%
Syntech 10w40: Thin 14%, proper was too low to accurately measure.
Syntech blend 10w40: thin 48%, proper 14%
GTX 10w40: thin 61%, proper 24%
GTX 20w50: thin 57%, proper 35%

That is just a teaser, we will have more to post in the morning when we post the adhesion tests and cold viscosity results.

Here is a little more thermal data.

GTX 20w50:29.3F, 38.4F, 44.7F, 50.9F, 55.2F, 58.6F
Durablend 10w40: 22.4F, 30.9F, 40.4F, 47.6F, 52.7F, 56.4F

There is more on the way, but I’m braking for diner.

[Gocasen]

Give the man some more rep points people lol. Who else has ever thought of this? Only problem is can you help inturpret the data on that last test please?

[GrandLordKhorne]

Just finished dealing with my client from hell so the data should start flowing a little faster. I would post a pile of data this morning but I’m a little strapped for time.

I will post a guide to understanding the data tonight, I have had a lot of requests for it.

[GrandLordKhorne]

This is the guide to understanding the data provided.


The wetting test (Adhesion Vs Cohesion).

All liquids have adhesive (sticking to other stuff) and cohesive (sticking to it’s self) properties. In a strongly cohesive liquid the liquid sticks to it’s self and forms a little droplet (looks like water on a waxed car, but that is a different angle for this principle), which means it dose not wet the surface very well. In a liquid with little cohesiveness or with stronger adhesive properties the fluid spreads out over the surface, wetting it. You want oil that coats the surface of your parts to help protect them so you want an oil that wets the surface well, which is indicated by a larger drop diameter. The other principle that is a work here is called capillary action, which is the natural tendency for a fluid to seep into small voids. The wetter the liquid the better the capillary action and the better the capillary action the better it will get into the small gaps in your motor (which is where you need it) and the better it will stay in throws gaps over night.

Viscosity test.

This test is pretty strait forward, the thinner the liquid the faster it will descend down the incline, the thicker the longer it will take. The resin this test is important is that the viscosity on the side of the bottle is not always the true viscosity of the liquid. The viscosity on the bottle is really a grade, which is a rating of how well it protects your motor (higher the second number the better it protects, the lower the first the better it flows). In synthetic oils the numbers on the bottle tend to be what the conventional equivalent would be, but the synthetic may flow better and be a better friction reducer than the same numbered conventional simply because the synthetic may have a lower true viscosity. The tricky part being that you do not want to thin an oil or it will run off your parts to quickly, but too thick and it hurts efficiency and is hard for the pump to suck up. Now the real motive of this test is not revealed until you see the cold and hot results, the oil that retains it’s viscosity the best from cold to hot will perform the best all around and an oil that stays fluid in the cold will be much better protection for your car when starting in the winter. Generally oil gets thinner as heated and thicker as cooled, but some viscosity modifying components are added to help maintain viscosity throughout the tempter band.

Weight:

We weighed the oil so we could do calculations later on, we posted it because we fingered some one may like to see it. Besides if your one of thaws super light weight car freaks, using oil at .8g/ml instead of 1g/ml could save you a bit of weight we suppose…

Water resistance test.

Water dose get into our oil, weather we like it or not it will happen. What you should be concerned about it that when that water gets into your oil it dissolves some of the additives and then forms a unpleasantly sticky foam (you have all seen the nasty brown foam on the sea shore, well that is in your motor if there is enough water there). What you want here is oil with the fewest water soluble chemicals, to help prevent that foaming and oil contamination. In the testing, the more foam the worst, the more indistinct the line that separates oil from water the more is dissolving (not just making foam but robbing your oil of it’s additives). So you want less foam and a more distinct separation. And no oil is not a good way to make bath bubbles…

The True Adhesion test.

We put oil on washers and hung them up for 24hr at a time without disturbing them to determine how much oil would stick to the washers. The more sticks to the washers the better the protective layer in your engine will be and the more it will retain on the parts from the time you shut the car off till you turn it back on, so it’s ready for start up and protected. Now all the oils left at least a film, what we where looking for was substantial adhesion (more than 1/2ml on the parts) which means much better engine protection.

Specific heat tests.

We checked how quickly any given sample warms up in a controlled environment, the faster it warms up the less energy is needed to raise the tempter each degree. The idea here is that oil that has a high specific heat (takes longer to heat up) will help your motor to run cooler and will resist thermal breakdown better (because it takes more effort to heat it). To compare properly, fined a similar starting point in two brands and look at which one had a grater change in tempter over that time slot. Comparing one oil starting at 18F and the other starting at 25F directly is poor because there is a variance in the rate at which heat is transferred based on how far from the room tempter the sample is (the farther from room temp the faster heat flows).

Friction test.

We will be re running all of the friction data, we are switching to a heavier sled so we can get accurate numbers for the synthetic oils (none of them had enough friction to be measurable with our current sled). The way you do this is to pull a object (in our case a steel block we call the sled) across a surface (a steel plate) with a scale and measure how much force it takes to first brake the block into movement (static friction) and then to keep it traveling at a constant rate (sliding friction). Static friction is always higher than sliding and we are not really interested in static as the only time it would mater in an engine is at the instant the rotating assembly is engaged by the starter. So we are testing only the sliding friction (we may get some static numbers just for grins). The better the oil the more it will reduce the friction (and hence the engine ware), so the lower percentages as we list them (we are showing % of dry friction) the better. Do keep in mined that some of the friction in the oil is a result of the viscosity of the oil.
We do this test in two parts as well, one with a thin layer (just wetting the sled) and one with a thick or ‘proper’ layer (wetting the sled and surface). The thin layer represents a low oil or oil starved condition and the ‘proper’ layer represents the normal operating condition.



As far as why this is taking so long…

Each individual test is complicated and takes from 5 min to 35 min to perform a single repetition; some also have dwell times of up to 24hr. Now we perform many tests repeatedly to establish that we are getting proper and consistent results. Beyond that, we is really me performing the tests and some of my car club buddies righting down results and complaining about getting sticky oily hands (like mine). Though bless my friends, there good for lafs as one of them poured Mobil 1 on some popcorn the other night by accident (there is a lot of lab ware in my home we use as normal dishes, including beakers that we microwave butter in for popcorn). Also they where kind enough to supply me with a qt each of Mobil 1 15w50, Mobil 1 0w40 and Syntec 5w50 (they order on line and use them in a 70’s 911, Bens E190 turbo and a late 80’s Testarossa respectively, they ordered extras just for me/us {all right they wanted in on the results to}). So a special thanks to my Evil Turbo Penguins car club members today for 3 extra oils to add to the tests. Also a special thanks to my wife for not killing me when she discovered a freezer full of oil and oil in a popcorn bowl.

More results are on the way folks.

[Gocasen]

:) thanks for that lol hope i am not the only idiot that needed that guide.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Actually about 10 people asked, so I figured it would be best if I put that in, for the good of the community.

Anyways big load of data tonight.

Specific heats:
Mobil 1 10w30: 17.7F, 22.4F, 33.9F, 42.2F, 48.5F, 53.0F
Synpower 20w50: 17.7F, 22.6F, 31.6F, 39.7F, 47.6F, 52.1F
Mobil 1 5w30: 16.0F, 21.9F, 30.2F, 39.2F, 47.3F, 53.6F
VR1 20w50: 18.1F, 24.9F, 33.0F, 41.1F, 48.0F, 54.5F
We took Lucas out of the fridge and it was like a Jello cup, so we flipped it over and just laughed at it for a while. It took it almost 3 minuets to even threaten to drip out of the upside down cup which means super good heat transfer and specific heat, but it totally failed the viscosity test. What good is oil if it will not flow?

Viscosity tests:

Room temp:
Mobil 1 15w50: 39sec
Mobil 1 0w40: 30 sec.
Syntec 5w50: 68sec.

Cold (17F): Now this is where it gets strange and you start to understand why synthetic is so good.
Syntec 10w40: 27sec
Syntec 5w50: 25 sec
Mobil 1 15w50: 63 sec.
Mobil 1 0w40: 23 sec.
Mobil 1 5w30: 24 sec.
Mobil 1 10w30: 27 sec.
Syntec Blend 10w40: 34 sec.
GTX 10w40: 40 sec.
GTX 20w50: 68 sec.
Durablend 10w40: 42 sec.
VR1 20w50: 69 sec.
Synpower 20w50: 81sec.
Lucas had to be spooned from the container and took over 5 min to travel the 2” down the ramp.

What you are seeing above is the fact that oil companies are making a thin oil and an additive that thickens it as it heats up. You can clearly see however that the synthetics are the king when it comes to cold protection. Actually MolyVan 855 (the lubricant in the synthetic oils) is like water by it’s self. They used to use paraffin (wax) in some conventional oils to improve viscosity but it would cause problems at high heat. Keep in mined with the above data that below a cretin point the oil will begin to thicken agene (meaning if you live in Mi or new England you should really be buying the synthetic). That point appears to be some place around 0F (we messed around a little with 3 samples and a deep freezer).

That is a lot of data even though it looks short. Hope it holds you till tomorrow night. Tomorrow night we should have some of the oils mixed with Lucas and the Walmart oil going on as well.

Oh as a side note: Mobil 1 5w30 tastes discussing according to my friends.

[ZaZZn]

Good results.. rememeber lucas is a oil addative.. I always knew it was thick since the time i put it in, in early march and it took 20 minutes to let drip drap in... When are the heat tests gonna begin thats what I really want to know.... Also you missed a huge thing.. Lucus is supposed to stabilize oil and help it cling to metal.... 30% lucus 70% oil I would like to see what lucaus does then for the hanger test.

[GrandLordKhorne]

We have 2 Lucas mixed samples in the drip test right now, results this evening. The hot test will be done some time this week, I’m going to stay late at work and use the drying oven there to heat the oil consistently. The one thing that did sort of concern me about the Lucas is that it didn’t really mix all that well with the oil, but then agene it gets pretty agitated in an engine. We are also currently chilling several samples mixed with Lucas to see just how thick it may make the samples get.

[dziuggy]

very very nice. thanks. again would love to see redline tested as it is know in the racing circle as the best oil period - and my local toyta dealer and performance shop caries it so it should not be a problem to get it


plz

[GrandLordKhorne]

If I have said it once I have said it 100 times, I have spent more than my max budget on this set of testing already and I DO NOT have a local source for Redline, Royal Purple or Amsoil (my local Toyota dealer caries Castrol and whatever the Toyota oil is). If you wanted tested PM me for an address and drop the sucker in the mail. Sorry to be abrasive, I feel like a parrot some times and it’s not just you dziuggy, I have gotten so many PM’s about how I ‘should be able to get it at the corner store that it is ridiculous. Believe me, I have looked.

Ok back to biss.

We have some data about oils containing the prescribed 30% Lucas by volume. The data I have right now is at room temp and I put the stuff in the Freezer over night so I could gather the cold data later today. We also have some Wallmart oil data.

Over night stick to the parts test:

Syntec 5w50: 11g = 1ml
Mobil 1 0w40: 10.5g = .5ml
Mobil 1 15w50: 10.5g = .5ml
GTX 20w50 + Lucas: 10.5g = .33ml
GTX 10w40 + Lucas: 11g = 1ml

Viscosity tests:

Walmart 10w30 synthetic: 43sec
GTX 10w40 + Lucas: 53sec
GTX 20w50 + Lucas: 100sec
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 28sec
VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 142sec
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 106sec
Syntec blend 10w40 + Lucas: 75sec

Wetness tests:

Mobil 1 0w40: 12mm
Mobil 1 15w50: 11mm
Syntec 5w50: 12mm
Walmart 10w30 synthetic: 10mm
GTX 10w40 + Lucas: 8mm
GTX 20w50 + Lucas: 10mm
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 10mm
VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 9mm
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 10mm
Syntec blend 10w40 + Lucas: 11mm

I will try to have more data tonight (cold data).

[dziuggy]

sorry i did not see your reply concerning this. pm me your address and i will send you some since i have some extra

[ZaZZn]

are you going to do any tests with the oils at high temps? I'm wondering what it's like at running temp like 200C or so.

I'd also like to know the point where the oil actually start to have vecosity break down form too much heat.. like when it burns off vs another weight oil.. so say 10w40 vs 20w50...

[GrandLordKhorne]

I will be running some tests at 180F, which is around where your oil should be. Anything above 210F in oil temp is inadvisable and by the time you hit 250F in oil your seriously damaging your motor. Synthetics last into higher ranges than conventional which I have never had the luck of exceeding (former Porsche owner, we know all about burning your oil out at the track, air/oil cooled after all). As far as your oil braking down at temp Vs what viscosity it is. There is more to it than just temp/viscosity, it also hast a lot to do with, contamination, layer thickness and oil age as well as brand (meaning additive package). The oven I have access to at work dose not work well above 200F so I will not be able to punch as high as 200C by which time I do assure you you’re conventional oils would be dead and close to there flash points (all but the best synthetics, I know for a fact that Mobil 1 will work to 400F as an oil). The talk about viscosity breakdown at high temps is almost a dead subject if you run a synthetic, the bigger worry being contamination causing breakdown over the service interval which is why we will be testing the used oils as well. I would throw some in a pot and see how hot I could get it before it has a viscosity death but #1 my wife would kill me (she has very nice pots) and #2 it would be a might dangerous to heat oil like that without more control than I have readily available.

If you are looking to finger out what weight to run, it is really more trial and error than anything if you don’t have a real lab, because it is different for each car/setup/brand of oil. The only way (without a lab) to single out what weight to run is to run a specific weight and see if it works (meaning no metal shavings), then if it dose go lighter and try that. Running to heavy will rob a little HP. I do know that I push my Mk III pretty hard on a regular basis and I run Syntec 10w40, I get no metal shavings in my filters (I cut them open after an oil change to check for just such an occurrence).

Anyways data for the night.

Specific heats for oils mixed with Lucas:

VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 9.6F, 24.4F, 38.6F, 46.2F, 51.8F
GTX 10w40 + Lucas: 22.4F, 34.1F, 41.5F, 48.5F, 54.8F
GTX 20w50 +Lucas: 30.3F, 40.6F, 48.3F, 53.6F, 57.3F
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 21.5F, 32.1F, 39.7F, 52.1F, 58.2F
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 14.3F, 34.8F, 46.9F, 54.1F, 58.6F
Syntec Blend 10w40 + Lucas: 16.1F, 31.6F, 48.9F, 55.5F, 58.2F

Cold times down the ramp.

VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 342sec
GTX 10w40 + Lucas: 159sec
GTX 20w50 +Lucas: 197sec
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 51sec
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 47sec
Syntec Blend 10w40 + Lucas: 167sec

I’m going to haft to say after weighting for all that Lucas mixed oil to slide the 2” down that ramp that I will haft to discount that product as a usable additive for vehicles being started at low temps. Most oils with the Lucas added at low temps just turn into a honey consistence that is a bit to thick to call appropriate for an engine lubricant.

More to come tomorrow, hot tests to start coming in probably Wednesday.

There was a question if I could compile all the data onto one form that could be down loaded. I will make an excel sheet available for download with the full data set at the completion of this testing.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Little more thermal data.

Walmart 10w30 synthetic: 10.2F, 18.6F, 31.4F, 41.1F, 51.5F
Mobil 1 0w40: 14.7F, 21.3F, 32.0F, 41.1F, 47.6F
Mobil 1 15w50: 13.6F, 18.8F, 27.6F, 36.8F, 44.6F
Syntec 5w50: 14.5F, 19.0F, 29.6F, 38.8F, 45.8F

You can plainly see that the heavier synthetics are much better thermally than most anything ells around.

I have taken the day off of work to do some hot tests (your welcome) but I need to swap out my exhaust really quick so I can go pass my smog tomorrow. Expect data around 6pm-7pm tonight.

[CTsupra]

I nominate GrandLordKhorne for Supraforums member of the year!

Don't start taking days off of work just for our benefit. I want you to keep your job!

Thank you for taking the day off though!

[ZaZZn]

I agree

[GrandLordKhorne]

I had ulterior motives for taking a day off of work so don’t worry and they won’t fire me, I’m the only guy in New England that caries the sort of NDT certs I have, I’m way to valuable and well underpaid. But being home all day did let me get a lot of testing done (not just oil but for other up coming threads), swapped out my exhausts (going to dyno stock exhaust then swap up to a DP, then DP+cat, then full exhaust, will be posting all sheets and econ, sound…ext, data in about 2 months.)and I finished the new Harry Potter book.

I would like to send a super special thanks and a +1 to audioman81 from whom I just received a 36pk of 2” industrial grade chip brushes that oddly enough look like 2 used oil sample (I love the boxes you get when people mail you stuff), and I salute his impeccable packing abilities (not one drop spilled and the bottles where not sticky or nasty).

The used oil is as follows:

Walmart 10w30 synthetic: 2002 chevy Malibu with 50K on it, 2800 on the oil, mostly hwy driven

Syntec Blend 10w30: Run in an 88 turbo, 91K miles with stock PSI and stock HG. Put in, in Feb 05, 1800 miles of city driving.


So here is the data for tonight.

Cold viscosity:

Walmart 10w30: 32sec
Used Walmart 10w30: 26sec
Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 68sec

Room temp viscosities:

Walmart 10w30: 103sec
Used Walmart 10w30: 62sec
Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 50sec

Hot viscosities:

A word on hot viscosities first. Expect to see higher times with conventional oils as they thicken to adhere with heat and that is how they protect. With synthetics they thin out in some cases but adhere to the part better to create a protective layer. The property of how well the oil deposits it’s self as it makes these hot passes is not something we can log in a quantitative form. However most samples will adhere well enough that when the ‘drop’ reaches the ‘finish line’ it is not a drop any more (left it’s body behind). Any oil not showing this effect in these hot test will be noted as having poor hot adhesion, otherwise, look for fast times in the synthetics and slow times in the conventional and blends. The resin you get better fuel econ with a synthetic is because it dose not haft to get thick to adhere and protect and can flow like hot butter reducing drag on the pump and parts.

GTX 10w40: 103sec
Syntec blend 10w40: 165sec
Syntec 10w40: 25sec
Syntec 5w50: 46sec
Mobil 1 15w50: 18sec
Mobil 1 0w40: 12sec

Friction tests:

All numbers are in Newtons. Less is better, particularly in the hot segment. We where going to list static numbers in addition to sliding and also thin vs thick layers but we found very consistently that static was about 33% higher and thin (wet but inadequate) was about 100% higher.

Totally Dry: 6N sliding
GTX 10w40: room: 2N, Hot: 1.5N
Syntec blend 10w40: room 1.75N, hot 1N
Syntec 10w40: room 1N, hot .8N
Syntec 5w50: room 1.5N, Hot 1N
Mobil 1 15w50: room 1.5N, hot 1N
Mobil 1 0w40: room 1.5N, hot 1.25N


More to post in the morning.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Sorry guys no data tonight, I have bad news. I will tell a funny true story afterwards to lighten the mood though.

The Bad news.

I was doing some testing this morning when I spilled a little oil on the heating coil of the drying kiln I’m using for hot testing, anyways it had a really interesting reaction and caught fire to one of my note books with this mornings data, so the data was lost and I will haft to repeat the tests (no biggie). Then when cleaning up I pulled a nether dumb move and spilled hot oil on my chary wood coffee table.

The fire was not a big deal I put it out with my hand (I’m fine my hand just smells funny) it was so small, just enough to destroy the top 4 pages of my note pad. The Kiln is fine, no big deal there either. My coffee table is all cleaned up as well, no harm done. I’m feeling that today is a super klutzy day so I will resume testing tomorrow (after changing my oil to get a used Syntec 10w40 sample).

The Funny story.

I was going to post this in the off topic section but I will put it here because the MkIII people are much more deserving and it will lift spirits after the aforementioned bad news.

My wife who is one of the super hot females, that work in a Victoria’s Secret in the local mall. The other day we where discussing a study that a friend of mine from MIT was doing about vegetarians and brain development, the study confirms that vegetarians (none meat eaters) have slower developing minds, lower average IQ and higher rates of mental retardation (it’s a study of kids raised as vegetarians and of people who become vegetarians in there teens). The study it’s self is a continuation of one done earlier relating to middle-aged vegetarians developing more handicaps and loosing motor skills more rapidly. Any ways, I was picking up my wife from work to go to dinner and we where headed out to the car. Walking with us was one of my wife’s co-workers (yes the co-worker was a blond), who just so happens to be a vegetarian since her early teens. We approached my wife’s white 92 Miata from the rear (my Supra was at home with the interior pulled out to fix a radio problem, don’t ask) and her co-worker exclaims “Wow, I didn’t know you had a Viper! I’ve never seen a white one.” to which I have all to do not to laugh. So my wife tells her it’s a Miata but she has never heard of such a car. She then asks where my ‘FC’ was (she watches too much Initial D with her boyfriend) and I tell her it’s a Toyota Supra and it’s at home. Well we get around the front of the Miata to show here it is a Mazda which for some resin amazes her, then ten seconds later she starts talking about how bad she wants a R32-Sileighty which she thinks is made by Toyota and will out run her boyfriends Vette… This is a 100% true story to spite the fact that my twitch has gotten more violent because of it and the morel hear is for heavens sake eat your meat!! By the way there was a Viper GTC parked 3 cars over from my wife’s itty bitty little Miata, when I saw it I laughed uncontrollably for about 5 min after what had just happened.

[Gocasen]

I can't wait to show this post to the girl that works with me :) lol. Sorry about the fires. :( glad nothing really got ruined but sorry your test results got eatin up. Take your time were in no rush here. :) stay safe.

[CTsupra]

yup, time to stop everything for the day after some klutzy doings. glad your ok!

i haven't heard anything about a study regarding vegetarians, but are you serious? just buy reasoning you would think the results would be the total opposite, lol. that's really interesting.

[GrandLordKhorne]

I’m dead serious about the study including vegetarians. They have found that protein from meat (in proper doses, you don’t haft to be a carnivore) helps prevent some diseases/disorders commonly associated with the elderly (published in a medical journal, I would haft to ask him which one). The follow up study being preformed seems to support the fact that animal proteins are highly important to nervous system development. My friend also pointed out that even though some vegetable products (like beans and nuts) have protein in them; the human body is not very efficient at extracting these proteins. He said even when steps are taken to insure proper protein intake in vegetarians they are still at higher risk than people that consume animal based products (other chemicals invalved too).

The guy is a PHD in biochemistry by the way. He said that the best root to healthy life style is to fallow the food pyramid and eat things in proper proportions, citing that everything in the pyramid is important in some manner, including the fats at the top. There talking about changing the pyramid because they want to stress grains more as people in general do not eat enough of them.

Both he and I agree though, that we respect people who do not eat meat because they do not enjoy the taste (we have a friend, a masters in marine biology, who is that way, but she eats other animal products) and people that are near vegetarians like my mother who steers away from most animal products because the hormones in the products significantly increase her chances of having a cancer relapse. We fined people who don’t eat animal products because they think it’s healthy not to or they think it’s cruel to be a little laughable (bad logic). The human body was designed to be an Omnivore and we should eat as such to meet our bodies needs.

I met the guy while I was taking part in a study on the effects of fast driving and endorphin release in the body leading to increased sex drive (I’m Physics and Mech Eng, not a bio freak, but any excuse to drive at the limit and I’m friends with the guy that ran the study). At the time he was doing a study that concluded that men who have sex (masturbation too, but real sex is more effective) on a regular basis (1 to 2 times a week min) are significantly less likely to get cretin types of cancers (higher blood flow to genitals increase there health) and females who have proper orgasms weekly are less likely to suffer reproductive dysfunctions (similar resins). Well a professor introduced him to our research team and made the joke we should combine the studies to say that men who drive faster are horny and more likely to please there significant others, which in turn reduces there risks of cancer and her risks of reproductive problems and probably leads to happier marriages. Well it has never gotten me out of a speeding ticket.

See you can learn lots of cool stuff from an oil thread. However I will be back on topic tonight.

[fiebru]

I’m dead serious about the study including vegetarians. They have found that protein from meat (in proper doses, you don’t haft to be a carnivore) helps prevent some diseases/disorders commonly associated with the elderly (published in a medical journal, I would haft to ask him which one). The follow up study being preformed seems to support the fact that animal proteins are highly important to nervous system development. My friend also pointed out that even though some vegetable products (like beans and nuts) have protein in them; the human body is not very efficient at extracting these proteins. He said even when steps are taken to insure proper protein intake in vegetarians they are still at higher risk than people that consume animal based products (other chemicals invalved too).

The guy is a PHD in biochemistry by the way. He said that the best root to healthy life style is to fallow the food pyramid and eat things in proper proportions, citing that everything in the pyramid is important in some manner, including the fats at the top. There talking about changing the pyramid because they want to stress grains more as people in general do not eat enough of them.

Both he and I agree though, that we respect people who do not eat meat because they do not enjoy the taste (we have a friend, a masters in marine biology, who is that way, but she eats other animal products) and people that are near vegetarians like my mother who steers away from most animal products because the hormones in the products significantly increase her chances of having a cancer relapse. We fined people who don’t eat animal products because they think it’s healthy not to or they think it’s cruel to be a little laughable (bad logic). The human body was designed to be an Omnivore and we should eat as such to meet our bodies needs.

I met the guy while I was taking part in a study on the effects of fast driving and endorphin release in the body leading to increased sex drive (I’m Physics and Mech Eng, not a bio freak, but any excuse to drive at the limit and I’m friends with the guy that ran the study). At the time he was doing a study that concluded that men who have sex (masturbation too, but real sex is more effective) on a regular basis (1 to 2 times a week min) are significantly less likely to get cretin types of cancers (higher blood flow to genitals increase there health) and females who have proper orgasms weekly are less likely to suffer reproductive dysfunctions (similar resins). Well a professor introduced him to our research team and made the joke we should combine the studies to say that men who drive faster are horny and more likely to please there significant others, which in turn reduces there risks of cancer and her risks of reproductive problems and probably leads to happier marriages. Well it has never gotten me out of a speeding ticket.

See you can learn lots of cool stuff from an oil thread. However I will be back on topic tonight.




u guys are the bomb ..this thread is nuts....i just boned a chick retarted on sunday talk about pleased ....and im an addict to cars.....theres a lot of truth in what u sayin

[Gocasen]

I am starting to love these studies lol. Who knew sex was so healthy.

[CTsupra]

*raises eyebrow* ...higher education kicks ass.

[GrandLordKhorne]

As much as anyone may say that higher education kicks anything about, do consider how much teasing the average ultra nerd overlord such as my self had to suffer threw high school and the younger years to reach our venerable level of intellect (this is why most genius is in fact Evil and explains my user name). Also, experiments such as previously noted to spite sounding fun do tend to get a little tedious as they draw on (repetitive tasks). Even the oil experiments are a bit of a put off on some evenings when I could be doing other things (but the data and the community are worth it).

New addition for this evening:

Used Syntec 10w40: taken from a 1989 Supra Turbo, bone stock save an SSQV and oil temp gauge. The oil was run for 3123 miles with a Mobil 1 filter, 87% on the highway averaging 73mph and 13% city averaging 22mph. The oil was in the car for 33 days over which my average gas mileage was 23.2mpg. The car has 116123 miles on the chassis and 18243 on the motor as of the oil change. Oil pressure ranged from 16 to 42 psi and oil temp was averaged at 178F.

A note on the used oils, you should still compare in all the normal ways but also consider how close the specks are to un-used samples to get an idea of how much deterioration has occurred. Also note the mileage and how the oil was driven as an indicator. An oil with 3000 miles on it should be more beat down than one with 1500.

Viscosities:

Used Walmart 10w30 synthetic: Hot 28sec.
Used Syntec 10w40: Hot 30sec, room 68sec, cold 40sec
Walmart 10w30 synthetic: Hot 25sec
VR1 20w50: Hot 113sec

Friction levels:

Used Walmart 10w30 synthetic: Hot 2N, room 2.25N, cold 2.75
Used Syntec 10w40: Hot 1.2N, room 1.75N, cold 2N
Walmart 10w30 synthetic: Hot 1.2N, room 1.5N, cold 1.9N
VR1 20w50: Hot 3N, room 4N, cold 4.5N

If anyone is living in a cold climate and using VR1 oil in your car, I would stop now…

Specific heat:

Used Walmart 10w30 synthetic: 15.2F, 20.6F, 29.6F, 38.3F, 44.9F

Keep in mined that with the used oils changes in heat could go either way as some contaminants and breakdown may improve this property while others might hurt it.

More data will be coming tomorrow.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Sorry guys there will be no data today. I’m spending the day fighting with my MkIII’s stereo system. I was just going to swap decks to one that doesn’t crap out as often and I discovered there is a rats nest of some morons idea of how to wire a stereo system that I will haft to fix to make it work right…

[ZaZZn]

great work grand... can you post tehm all in one post the values so we can compare easier? If not let me know if it's ok if i can do it.

One thing about the vescoties I'm sure they are going to be lower with lucas since it's a stablier ment to stick to parts.... Also I'm wondering in a cold area doesn't it take about 3-5 min to warm the engine to temp? That should make 20w50 back to a level that is acceptable... but 20w50 is (i agree) for hotter climate places.

5w30 in the winter as really how mcuh do you go in to boost?

[GrandLordKhorne]

When all is said and done, I will post a full list data in a chart for easy reference. What concerns me about the tests is that most of the wear and tare on a motor is during the first 3-5 min of operation before it warms up. After a motor is warm the amount of wear and tear is actually pretty small…

When I run 5w30 in the winter I will push as much as 10-12psi without worrying… I push up to 20psi in the summer on 10w40 but I use a synthetic (I run pretty hard at times too)… I sort of question the need for something as thick as 20w50 in a 7M at any time, it strikes me as a little overkill. Especially when most of the racing teams I have been in contact with are running much lighter oils, generally between 20w40 and 15w35. The only place I have found that 20w50 is of real advantage is in diesels and air/oil cooled motors.

I have yet to fined any indication that my Syntec 10w40 so I have not gone thicker. I got some very small metal partials with 5w30 when I went over 15psi.

Anyways, the pic is Lucas with GTX20w50 frosh out of the freezer, it’s good for a laugh. This is why I don’t suggest Lucas in the cold…

[ZaZZn]

haha thats jokes.... Snow cone anyone?

[GrandLordKhorne]

Not a joke, that's what happened to it... That is what GTX 20w50 + 30% lucas looks like when I take it out of my freezer (temp was around 0F when it registered on the thermometer).

[GrandLordKhorne]

Had a couple of Q’s about cold testing… So here are some answers: the freezer is kept at about -6F (not a normal freezer) but we let the samples warm up to 15F-18F and do all testing in that temp range… All the oils are supper thick coming out of the freezer, however the ones where lucas is mixed with a conventional oil are the only ones that are like jello (until about 8F-10F at least)…

Here is a little data for this evening. I will be getting back into the swing of things on Monday and I will have much more data tomorrow night (I have been a little preoccupied).

Specific heats:

Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 28.7F, 33.8F, 40.6F, 46.7F, 51.4F
Used Syntec 10w40: 16.5F, 20.8F, 30.5F, 39.3F, 46.5F

[NavyCuda]

If you don't have any objections I would like to take the data you've collected and lay it out in a more organised fashion(spreadsheet) and mabye make some graphs to help illistrate the superior oil.

In your hot/cold tests are the test surfaces also brought to the same temp?

[GrandLordKhorne]

Your welcome to make a spread sheet and some graphs if you want. I already have the data on Excel but I’m waiting to publish until the data is complete, so I don’t haft to publish repeatedly. PM me and I will send you the file (which is more complete and accurate than what I have posted here). When all is said and dun I still intend to put the file up so people can just download it when ever.

Test surfaces are brought reasonably close to the same temp, but maintaining that temp is more difficult so we use a wider range of tolerances.

[Fuzz420]

i tried to scan thru nice info.........

I have question which lucas are u testing with.The petrol based additive or the synthetic based additive.

On a side note that walmart brand looks to be pretty good from testing so far......

[GrandLordKhorne]

Special thanks to an Unknown individual who sent a qt of 10w40 redline synthetic and ½ qt of 20w50 redline synthetic. There was no readable name (skuffed up)on the package but speak up for your +1 and thanks for kicking in the oil. It was in about 6 UPS bags in a USPS box...

We are testing the Petroleum based Lucas, it’s very hard to fined the synthetic one around here. I have only seen the synthetic in the not so local Napa and only in little containers, I would haft to buy a couple to do the testing.

For the price I would haft to agree that the Walmart 10w30 synthetic is surviving pretty well, but I would like to point out the used sample dose not have all that many miles on it for a synthetic oil in a none boosted car and is showing a lot more deterioration than the other used samples at the moment. I will reserve judgment on a hole until the end and even then it’s only an opinion.

[Fuzz420]

Special thanks to an Unknown individual who sent a qt of 10w40 redline synthetic and ½ qt of 20w50 redline synthetic. There was no readable name (skuffed up)on the package but speak up for your +1 and thanks for kicking in the oil. It was in about 6 UPS bags in a USPS box...

We are testing the Petroleum based Lucas, it’s very hard to fined the synthetic one around here. I have only seen the synthetic in the not so local Napa and only in little containers, I would haft to buy a couple to do the testing.

For the price I would haft to agree that the Walmart 10w30 synthetic is surviving pretty well, but I would like to point out the used sample dose not have all that many miles on it for a synthetic oil in a none boosted car and is showing a lot more deterioration than the other used samples at the moment. I will reserve judgment on a hole until the end and even then it’s only an opinion.

VEry well put.If testing continues for several more weeks, i would be able to get some lucas synthetic based addictive.They sell it at the local autozone here but its not cheap.I believe around here the petrol lucas is 7.99 and the synthetic is 11.99.I would be glad to contribute if its still goin on.Dont have the funds right now but it would be money well spend to see if this product is actually worth it. Once again nice work. Im glad to see my castrol 10w-40 is holding up as well as it is.I wish it was better in the cold viscosity department.

[NavyCuda]

Your welcome to make a spread sheet and some graphs if you want. I already have the data on Excel but I’m waiting to publish until the data is complete, so I don’t haft to publish repeatedly. PM me and I will send you the file (which is more complete and accurate than what I have posted here). When all is said and dun I still intend to put the file up so people can just download it when ever.

Test surfaces are brought reasonably close to the same temp, but maintaining that temp is more difficult so we use a wider range of tolerances.

Well it seems you're a highly orginized man! I'll leave you to it then :P

[ZaZZn]

Not a joke, that's what happened to it... That is what GTX 20w50 + 30% lucas looks like when I take it out of my freezer (temp was around 0F when it registered on the thermometer).

I guess why my 7m Had crazy oil pressure when i started it one cold winter day in toronto lol (didn't change out the 20w50 and lucas) Never agan thats for sure.

Never again.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Highly Organized… I’ll take that as a compliment though you would laugh if you looked around my apartment at the heaps of parts and stacks of books topped with odd collections of the strangest things (I collect Warhammer armies, human bones and car models). My friends actually say I’m a little anile and very eccentric, but then eccentricity is supposed to be a mark of quality (I suppose, my wife just thinks I’m nuts though). Actually my attention to detail comes from years of education in the sciences and my parents raising me that way. It’s just like the fact that I’m willing to do all of this for a group of people that I have never met save there writings here on SF, you must admit that dose seam a bit odd (I could just have tested what I was interested in and never told a sole). But I do it because I love it (the experiments) and because I want to see the community grow and develop in new/good ways.

I do have a plan, which is to finish around the end of this week (and without getting any more over budget on this project)… I will however be willing to continue the testing if there is significant interest in farther research and if there are people willing to contribute to the cause (I’m running low on disposable volumetric pipettes and 50ml plastic beakers). I would also haft to say that I have other testing I would like to move on to near the end of Aug (Exhaust and maybe suspension), so any farther testing will be on a scaled back time table (meaning fewer tests per night). I would however love to see expanded results (More Used Oil Samples, particularly of ones we have tested new).

Tonight’s data:

Water rejection data:

Mobil 1 15w50: Outstanding, 60% foam
Mobil 1 0w40: Outstanding, 40% foam
Syntec 5w50: Outstanding, 20% foam
Walmart 10w30: Good, 55% foam
Used Syntec 10w40: Outstanding, 30% foam
Used Walmart 10w30: OK, 70% foam
Used Syntec Blend 10w40: Good, 70% foam.

Cold Friction Numbers:

Mobil 1, 10w30 + Lucas: 1.75N
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 2N
Syntec Blend 10w40 + Lucas: 2.2N
GTX 10w40 + Lucas: 2.2N
GTX 20w50 + Lucas: 2.5N
VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 3.4N
Pure Lucas: 9N (if you are running pure Lucas stop now and change to regular oil).
Syntec 10w40: 1N
Syntec Blend 10w40: 1.5
GTX 10w40: 2N
GTX 20w50: 2.25N

There will be some dripping over night test data in the morning.

Ha, data in before 9pm how about that!

[GrandLordKhorne]

Data from over nigh adhesion testing (dripping test):

Mobil 1 5w30: 1ml
Synpower 20w50: .5ml
Walmart 10w30: 0ml
Used Walmart 10w30: 0ml
Used Syntec 10w40: 1.5ml

I’m hoping to get a little data from the Redline products for this evening. I will try to post it by around 9pm.

[NavyCuda]

In the future it might be worth the effort to test high end anti-freezes to see which is best...

There is a product that is called purple ice that is supposed to help reduce the engine temp...

[appleguy]

There is a product that is called purple ice that is supposed to help reduce the engine temp...

If you're running the stock thermostat, there's no way in hell the coolant mix is going to allow your engine to run at a lower temperature, unless your car has a serious issue already or your mix is truly terrible (even pure water should be enough for a warmer climate, though; yeah, water wetter is nice, but not for lower temps). Your radiator should be able to dissipate the heat of coolant sent to it, repeatedly opening and closing the thermostat.

Now, if you ran a lower temp t-stat, I can see it might be possible the radiator alone could not maintain a lower temp, requiring a high quality coolant.

[GrandLordKhorne]

On the subject of coolants, this should really be a new thread, but I’m going to decline on testing them. My resin being that there are two types of coolant; Ethylene Glycol (the green stuff) and ‘Dexcool’. Ethylene Glycol is only mad in 2 factories in the world last I checked and in and of it’s self is durable enough to work well without all the additives that the companies pore in them (what I’m saying is there is little if any real difference in brands here). ‘Dexcool’ (the red/orange stuff) is simply a slightly different chemical which is nicer to your Al parts than Ethylene Glycol, but other than being nicer to Al it has only a slight efficiency advantage and is otherwise indistinguishable in hot performance.

Actually this may be a shock to some of you but if you flip over your coolant bottle and read the back, in many cases (including the fancy brands) it recommends less coolant to water in warmer climates (because water transfers heat better than coolant). ‘Coolant’ is really there to lubricate the water pump and prevent freezing.

I know from personal experience that water is perfectly capable of cooling an engine even with a 180F T stat. So you are not going to see a real advantage to fancy coolant additives because of the limiting factor of you thermostat (if it cools below a certain temp the valve closes and allows the fluid to warm up). The important thing with coolant is to have a proper mix for your winter climate (to prevent freezing), keep things lubed and to prevent corrosion. If you are using an additive to keep your motor in the right range, stop and fined the real cause of your heat problems.

Also, if any of you are running without a T-stat or a restrictor, when your engine freezes up, come see me and I will slap you on the back of the head with a real pine 2x4 free of charge. This agene should be a new thread but; flow rates that exceed cretin velocities cause thermodynamic efficiency problems in your motor and to spite your gauge reading cold, you are over cooling some parts and allowing hot spots in others. I have engine data to back this up, if you are wondering. Thermostats and restrictors where invented for a resin and there is a sweet operating temperature for your motor that I will guarantee is readable on the gauge and grater than zero!

All of that having been said, if I did not know so much about chemistry, thermodynamics and coolant it would be an interesting test to perform.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Sorry but only a little data tonight, we had an X-ray machine brake down at work and I got home late as a result.

Specific heats:

Redline 10w40: 13.2F, 21.3F, 31.6F, 40.4F, 47.3F
Redline 20w50: 25.5F, 31.4F, 39.3F, 45.6F, 51.0F

There will be more tomorrow

[GrandLordKhorne]

Just to keep everyone abreast of things. The tests are getting reasonably close to finished, so I’m going to make a push for the end of the week. If I don’t make the end of the week, I will shoot for Wednesday of next week (I haft to work all weekend). When this is done I will start my tests on the Titan Down Pipe, Random Tech Cat and Tanabe Super Hyper Medallion exhaust (all 3 are on order threw MVP and should be showing up by the end of the month I hope). Expect to see data on the exhaust about mid September and to include sound (dB), performance (HP), Fuel econ and weld analysis data. I have given up on an interior for this year, but I’m also going to postpone my suspension tests until probably spring (I’m a little put off by not getting a descent interior so I’m going to slow my project down until the setback depression wares off and then I will be more focused anyways).

If you live/are in or near MA and are willing, I’m looking to get some noise level (Sound in dB) data on cars with different mod levels and exhaust systems. The tests take about 1 hr and around 15 to 25 miles of driving to complete. I would not mined getting some MkIV or MkII data as well if anyone has one. PM me if your interested.

On another side note, I have loads of operating data on my MkIII, including, pressures, temps, sound levels, fuel econ, oil consumption…ext and I was wondering if you guys/girls would be interested in seeing it published in a thread? As sort of a reference. It starts will an almost completely stock vehicle (only has an SSQV) and would continue threw any mods I do.

Tonight’s Oil data:

Wetness tests:

Used Syntec 10w40: 13mm
Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 11mm
Used Walmart 10w30: 13mm
Redline 10w40: 12mm
Redline 20w50: 12mm

Water rejection:

Syntec 10w40 w/ Lucas: outstanding, 75%
Syntec Blend 10w40 w/ Lucas: Good, 60%
GTX 10w40 w/ Lucas: Good, 50%
GTX 20w50 w/Lucas: Good, 50%
Mobil 1 10w30 w/ Lucas: Outstanding, 65%
VR1 20w50 w/ Lucas: Good, 30%
Redline 10w40: Outstanding, 20%
Redline 20w50: Outstanding, 20%

I may have some coating data in the morning.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Data for tonight:

Hot Viscosities:

GTX 20w50: 33sec
Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 28sec
GTX 10w40 w/ Lucas: 173sec
GTX 20w50 w/ Lucas: 63sec
Durablend 10w40: 53sec
Redline 10w40: 19sec

Hot Friction:

GTX 20w50: 1.6N
Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 1.9N
GTX 10w40 w/ Lucas: 1.95N
GTX 20w50 w/ Lucas: 1.9N
Durablend 10w40: 1.2N
Redline 10w40: .9N

Room Temp Friction:

GTX 20w50: 1.9N
Used Syntec Blend 10w30: 1.8N
GTX 10w40 w/ Lucas: 2.2N
GTX 20w50 w/ Lucas: 2.8N
Durablend 10w40: 1.5N
Redline 10w40: 1.2N

Cold Friction:

Durablend 10w40: 2.0N
Redline 10w40: 1.4N
Redline 20w50: 1.8N
Syntec 5w50: 1.2N

Room temp Viscosities:

Redline 10w40: 24sec
Redline 20w50: 95sec

Clod Viscosities:

Redline 10w40: 40sec
Redline 20w50: 97sec

Well that was a tone of work for tonight, but it looks like I might just finish the 47 blinks on my final data sheet over the next 48hr if I push just a little. Hopefully I will be publishing the final results on Monday night with some luck.

[Gocasen]

When you get those send the data over to Gocasen@yahoo.com thanks i want a hard copy :-D

[GrandLordKhorne]

Finally over 2000 views… Now that is cool…

I do have some data for tonight, but I will post it tomorrow afternoon in one last data posting. Then I will publish my cleaned up spread sheet on Monday probably (Sunday if you are lucky)… I will also be publishing a conclusion, including my opinions based on working with all this oil…

My boss is forcing me to take tomorrow off because he said ‘Your burning the candle at both ends and in the middle, it’s not good for you, something hast to give’ but what ever, I need the money from work and I get so freaking bored just sitting around the apartment… I’ll be back at my X-ray machine on Sunday at any rate… I suppose I need some new friends with less work related interests (when I get together with friends, we work and then watch a movie when it’s too dark to keep working), so any lazy people in or near MA want to be my friend and try and keep me from working…

When all this is over, if you are local to MA, you are welcome to swing by for a free 1/2qt of oil or a 1gal of Walmart oil (first come first serve, limited quantities). One of these days, I will have time off that corresponds with a meet and I will get to meet all you people and you will see just who the heck I am, that should be interesting…

Alright, drop another post tomorrow after noon, I will shoot for before 3pm but definitely by 6pm considering I’m taking a forced day off tomorrow… I wish I was paid well enough to not haft to be a work-a-holic.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Almost all the data left to give.

Hot Viscosities.

Mobil 1 5w30: 33sec
Mobil 1 10w30: 46sec
Redline 20w50: 133sec
Synpower 20w50: 31sec
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 250sec
Syntec Blend 10w40 + Lucas: 124sec
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 108sec
VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 155sec

Hot Friction:

Mobil 1 5w30: .6N
Mobil 1 10w30: 1N
Redline 20w50: 1.1N
Synpower 20w50: 1.3N
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 1.5N
Syntec Blend 10w40 + Lucas: 1.6N
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 1.8N
VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 1.8N

Room Temp Friction:

Mobil 1 5w30: 1N
Mobil 1 10w30: 1.1N
Redline 20w50: 1.3N
Synpower 20w50: 1.4N
Syntec 10w40 + Lucas: 2N
Syntec Blend 10w40 + Lucas: 1.8N
Mobil 1 10w30 + Lucas: 2.2N
VR1 20w50 + Lucas: 2N

Cold Friction:

Mobil 1 5w30: 1.1N
Mobil 1 10w30: 1.2N
Synpower 20w50: 1.5N

Other than that there is only a little staying on the parts over night data to post but I want to get all of that together tomorrow (still 2 samples in dwell) and I will post it when I post the spreadsheet either tomorrow night or Monday night.

[dziuggy]

Special thanks to an Unknown individual who sent a qt of 10w40 redline synthetic and ½ qt of 20w50 redline synthetic. There was no readable name (skuffed up)on the package but speak up for your +1 and thanks for kicking in the oil. It was in about 6 UPS bags in a USPS box...

We are testing the Petroleum based Lucas, it’s very hard to fined the synthetic one around here. I have only seen the synthetic in the not so local Napa and only in little containers, I would haft to buy a couple to do the testing.

For the price I would haft to agree that the Walmart 10w30 synthetic is surviving pretty well, but I would like to point out the used sample dose not have all that many miles on it for a synthetic oil in a none boosted car and is showing a lot more deterioration than the other used samples at the moment. I will reserve judgment on a hole until the end and even then it’s only an opinion.

hey that was me as i posed earlier that i will send some and you PM'd me your address

and thanks again for doing this

[GrandLordKhorne]

Finally done… :bigthumb: Below you will fined a file containing the spread sheets with full data as to the performance of different oils. I would be willing to test more/other brands if there is interest and if some one is willing to provide some financial backing for lab ware (I would require about $25 in disposable pipettes and if we exceed more than a couple of more samples about $25 more in disposable beakers). I’m not soliciting, I’m just saying I have spent more than I should have on this already.

An explanation for the spreadsheets:

First of all, the sections with blue text/numbers are used oil samples. The Sections with Red text/numbers are samples with 30% Lucas additive. Units are at the bottoms of the columns and all temps are in F.

Under sheet Data 1:

Wetness: higher numbers are better but anything 10 and over is good.

Viscosity: Numbers in seconds to run down a 45 ramp 2 inches, lower is thinner or better flowing, higher is thicker.

Friction: measured in Newton’s, lower is always better.

Coating: how well it stuck to the parts over night, higher is always better and everything even if it said 0 left at least a film type layer.

Water rejection: self explanatory running from acceptable to outstanding.

% Foam: Less is always better, this represents how much foam was produced and remained after adding water and agitating the samples. This is a percentage of the water that is foamed, not the oil (caused by chemicals in the oil dissolving in the water).

Weight is just that, how much a single ml of the oil would weigh in grams, this is only really useful for doing calculations with heat.

Under the Specific Heats sheet:

First you see the actual temps in F, fallowed by the change in temp from start to finish of the 20min run. Then weight per gram, weight of the total sample used (40ml was used, but it’s important to discuss mass when talking about heat). The final column (T/M) is simply total mass of the sample divided by the change in temp over the total 20min. This last number although not directly useful, is representative of how the oil performs agents it’s competitors, with higher numbers indicating a better ability to carry heat energy. Any thing over 1.0 in the last column is good and keep in mined that I had no way of testing how well an oil transfers heat energy so the comparison is limited and should be cross referenced with the Wetness test from the first page.


As for my opinion on the oils I have tested…

After working with so much oil, this is what I think. I will continue to use Syntec 10w40 as it preformed admirably all around and is not too terribly expensive, but if I did switch to something different, I would step up to Redline 10w40 or do some testing on some Royal Purple and see how that compares. I would not bother running a thicker Xw50 unless my motor was heavily modified, as the 10w40 held up well for the 3000 miles I torched it for this test and is therefore more than sufficiently protective for my motor.

I would tend to stay away from Lucas, though it did help some conventional oils it was not a really satisfying product, particularly for the price. I would however recommend Lucas as an assembly lube when building a motor, for it’s wonderful ability to stick to everything forever and the fact that it would dissolve and be carried away after the initial start up.

The Synthetics did perform better than the conventional in more than just the numeric manner that you see on the data sheets and are well worth the money you spend stepping up to one, especially in cold climates and harsh conditions. I however would probably steer away from the Walmart brand for my Supra, even though it is more than adequate for your beater car.

Redline is notable for having some very good flow characteristics that unfortunately can not be quantitatively captured hear and I was quite impressed with the 10w40 they produce.


I hope that this testing has met your needs for sufficiently demonstrating what types of oils will be best in cretin situations and I thank you for your patients. I will be performing other testing on other products in the time ahead, budget allowing, for the betterment of the community.

I do have a request, please post your thoughts on the testing, what oil you where using, weather you will be changing having read all of this, why or why not you are changing and what you will be changing to if you are. I would fined this type of information interesting if nothing more.

Admin, I beseech you, my intentions where to put a reasonable end to the number of oil threads out there. Come up with some sort of oil thread policy to help prevent so many of the dumb threads we where dealing with before this one and leave free space for better information… My vote would be for a short ban on anyone that starts another oil thread that dose not address some item not discussed here. Every one ells, charge your flamers…

And for heavens sake, some one trade me a 1JZ Supra (I want 1J bad and can’t afford it) or at least sell me a none burgundy interior…

[dziuggy]

sweet conclusion, so i'm happy as i picked right oils to use so far - i used to run redline (the last of whitch i have sent you), but after leaking $60 of redline i went ahead and srted to use syntec 10w40 as it is ~$4 a quart not $8-10 for redline, so i guess castrol is upholding its claims of being the best of big manufacturers

great job thanks

ziggy

[Gocasen]

Lot of manufactures are goin to be angry at you :-D. Also can you explain what the numbers mean exactly on this spreadsheet. For friction is a higher number better and for visc is a lower number better i have no idea what i am reading but its awesome.

[GrandLordKhorne]

The manufactures can be as pissed as they want. I did not favor any brand in any test and am only providing data, if they think I have wronged them in some way by not making them look good, that is there problem… No product tested completely sucked (they all had there use) and I do not recommend or endorse any brand here…

There is a guide to the data back on page 3 in about the middle… But here is a quickie refresher.

Wetness: 10 or higher is good…

Viscosity: Hot: Conventional should be higher, synthetic lower, Room: lower is better and cold: Lower is way better…

Friction: Lower is always better…

Coating: Higher is always better…

Water rejection: Self explanatory…

% foaming: Lower is always better…

Weight is irrelevant and is only provided should you be math inclined and want to convert to more technical numbers rather than raw data…

On the Specific heat, look at the column on the far right, anything 1.0 or higher is good.

[NDBoost]

wow, looks like my next switch is possibly Castrol Syntec 10w40 or their syntec blend 10w40.

Grandlord +1 for your fantastic work!

Thanks a million

[CTsupra]

Dropping by and thanking you for all of your hard work! Thanks!
Best thread in the history of supraforums.

In a month or so, maybe longer, i'm going to try to get you every single type of oil royal purple makes. i want to get regular, racing series, everything, every weight, and send it up to you. problem is, it will all be new oil, un-used, so i don't know how it's going to compare to the red-line. unless somebody will send you some used royal purple.

oh yeah, i'll fund the testing too, just let me know what you need when the time comes.

[GrandLordKhorne]

It would be absolutely outstanding to add royal purple to this… The red line tested was not used so the initial comparison should be interesting… It would be grate to see used Red Line and Royal Purple at some point as well…

[shiver-91vr4]

has anyone sent you amsoil at all?

I have been using it in all 3 of my cars and it has performed exceptionally over the past few years.

The most disturbing thing about it is that they say it's a 35,000 mile oil!?

I rarely leave oil in my sports cars more than 1,000 miles, but I'd like to see if all this stuff is just hype or what.

I have a few quarts sitting around, not sure how much you need or if anyone has sent you any yet.

PS, I also have some of the oil used in containers I was going to send for oil analysis, I could possibly send a sample of that over too.

I have used VP16 and some with pump gas. It would be interesting to see what kind of numbers they would put up after lead eating at it for a few hundred miles.

[GrandLordKhorne]

I have not received any amsoil but when CtSupra is ready to do the royal purples I could probably squeeze in a sample or two, I will PM you when I know when we will be doing more testing…

[CTsupra]

might not be for a quite awhile, but i promise you, i'll be sending up royal purple sooner or later. finances aren't looking to good right now. i wanted to get everything they make (like 16 quarts, or so), order it, bill to me, and ship right to your door, but it looks like that's not going to come to frutation. it might, or i'll just have to go buy single quarts one at a time, and send them up to you. i don't know yet, but they're coming.

[Durrr]

LOL @ the Super-Tech oil. I refuse to buy it, but this would be an interesting test. Remember the Rotella-T is NOT a "wal-mart" oil. its also sold in auto parts stores. but only a few here, I know Napa does not sure of where else. but I definitely second the wal-mart Super-Tech oil. Lets see some underdog battles.
super-tech is rebranded valvoline usually, sometimes, its re-branded mobil. The only way you can tell is to do a virgin oil analysis on it

[Gocasen]

The MR2 i am buying is coming with Royal Purple ;) if you want a little of that oil just pm me.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Love to do some more testing but I would want to do several samples at once to make it worth it…

[onebad7m]

I have an oil that i would like to test. Its a 0W 50 oil made by a company called Eneos, used widely by the BAR Honda F1 team. it's about 10 bucks a quart and im using it now and it was a great improvement over the 5W 50 from castrol that i was using. PM your info and i will go ahead and sent you this oil over, and see how it stacks up with the rest.

[Gocasen]

GrandLordKhorne - I have read through your posts testing various brands of motor oils. I am an amsoil dealer, and i would be happy to get you some oil to use in your tests. Please email me at Dijital357@cox.net or hit me on AIM at Dijital45. Thank you, Douglas Linden

Hes a Mr2oc.com dealer he is waiting for registration to be completed on him. i told him i would post a message for him. Contact him GrankLordKhorne i really want to see how amsoil does in testing considering i plan on buying some for my next engine.

[TiWo2.0]

Wow, alot of usefull information. Synthetic was always better, and has been the only oil I've used in my turbocharged vehicles (Ford TurboCoupe, Turbo Conquest, and now my Supra's) As for my 94 GMC Sierra, I've driven it for 5 years and used the cheapest oil I could find. Whitch was usually the 10w30 I could get at my local gas station for about $1.35/qt. And I'm happy to report that the V8 runs stronger than ever, with about 320,000 miles on it. Anyway, I think the point I'm trying to make is, I don't think my truck would be any better off if I were using that spiffy synthetic stuff these past 5 years.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Different cars and different motors under different driving styles respond differently to each oil… I don’t put anything special in my wife’s Miata and it runs strong with a but load of miles on it. But I have definitely felt the difference with similar performance cars running different oils and being pushed hard…

PS. I’m dropping Dijital45 a line right now… With a little luck he will be on AIM, if not I will E-mail.

[GotToyota?]

Different cars and different motors under different driving styles respond differently to each oil… I don’t put anything special in my wife’s Miata and it runs strong with a but load of miles on it. But I have definitely felt the difference with similar performance cars running different oils and being pushed hard…

PS. I’m dropping Dijital45 a line right now… With a little luck he will be on AIM, if not I will E-mail.
So what oil do you think would be best for a JDM 7M-GE?

-Matt

[GrandLordKhorne]

We have received some samples of Amsoil products. In particular, 20w50 racing, 10w40 High performance and 10w40 extended service.

Here are the first test results.

For the temp tests each sample is as fallows.

Racing 20w50: 33.9F temp swing.
HP 10w40: 37.6F temp swing.
XS 10w40: 31.7F temp swing.

The result is that I’m not what one would call impressed by the specific heat capacity of any of the mixes and would not run this oil in an air cooled like my 911… Having said that they are by far the best smelling and most esthetically pleasing oils I have ever seen and have some properties that are intriguing to me. I’m definitely left with the feeling these will do well in other categories and we shell see soon enough.

[msdg137]

I was glad to see the different charecteristics of the oils. I had a talon with low oil pressure. I ended up running 100% lucas. Helped a bit. Later down the road I craked the oil return off the turbo and ended up putting over 30 quarts of oil in a month. The oil started running clear after miles of driving and the pressure rose to normal. In the end I wondered which oil ran the best. Now I know, Thanks.

[GrandLordKhorne]

More oil results.

Room temp vis times: (less is better)

Racing: 60 sec
HP: 41 sec
XS: 29 sec

Cold vis times: (less is better)

Racing: 57 sec
HP: 38 sec
XS: 40 sec

Wetness spot size: (bigger is better)

Racing: 8mm
HP: 11mm
XS: 10mm


I’m starting to like the XS the more I play with it, the HP is good stuff too but I really get the feeling I would not use the racing oil unless it was in a water cooled summer only car. They all stick to parts pretty well from what I can see and the HP wets pretty nicely. I will try to get to the friction tests soon.

There has also been a whisper of talk about testing out a filter from Amsoil and running there oil for 15K miles (checking it often) to see just how it dose.

[GotToyota?]

^ I don't know what any of that means. I just wanna know the best motor oil for a daily driver JDM 7M-GE. ;)

-Matt

[GrandLordKhorne]

Water rejection data.

Racing: good 50% foam
HP: Acceptable, 70% foam
XS: Acceptable, 70% foam

Not really impresive results, they looked like coffie with cream after an hr of settling. Not really as good as something like Syntec that had little foam and visibly seprit water arias...

[GrandLordKhorne]

Some more info on Amsoil.

24hr coating tests results are in and Amsoil did well.

Racing: 1ml stayed on coupon.
HP: 2ml stayed on coupon.
XS: 1.5ml stayed on coupon.

This is a really good result, what it means is that when you go to start your car in the morning, most parts will still have a good coating of oil rather than just a sort of oily film. And keep in mined, the average of all the oils previously tested was .75ml, only 4 other samples exceeded 1ml left on the coupon after 24 hrs. 2ml is the standing glass sealing, with Amsoils HP 10w40, redlines HP 20w50 and syntec 10w40 hitting that mark.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Final data for the Amsoil tests.

I think we final found an aria that the Amsoil is very good in, which is friction. The racing is in the top 3 performers hot and the other two did very well as well. All around there ability to reduce friction (which is the main point of oil) is very good.

The numbers are as fallows (hot/room/cold, listed in N to pull the sled).

Racing: .8/1.25/1.8
HP: 1/1.25/2
XS: 1.25/1.5/1.75

And the final viscosity times, for the hot state.

Racing: 30sec
HP: 24sec
XS: 51sec


As for my final thoughts and feelings on the 3 Amsoil products tested. I like the racing oil, but only for a car driven exclusively in warm weather and I wish it came in a 10w40 rated oil as 20w50 is often thicker and more than you need (robs some Hp and Econ). I would happily run the racing in my 1J car in the warm months without a worry in the world about how it performs. I liked the high performance sample as well, but I would not pay the extra money over my Castrol for it, there a vary comparable product. The extended service was probably my favorite of the 3 for all around use, though it was not the best in many categories it’s overall performance was very good and if it where locally available I would seriously consider running it in my daily driver. Of all my thoughts that come to mine on the Amsoil products tested here I would haft to say the things that stand out in my mined are that they perform predictably, are consistent and well balanced oils. The bad end was there performance in the tests was there resistance to water contamination and there heat capacities, neither of which would concern me in a water cooled engine that was properly sealed.

I am hoping to do some sort of endurance test with amsoil in my Supra, as there biggest claim is how long you can run them in your car without changing them and without loss of protection.

[Gocasen]

I would love to see the final result of the oil after being run for 3000 miles compared to a diffrent oil run for 3000 miles. I think it would be very intresting seeing the diffrence in which holds up better.

[ViR2]

have you tested Castrols RS 10w-60 racing oil? Many people use this oil in rally applications, and are very happy with it. I've always used it in my rally EVO VIII

[GrandLordKhorne]

I have only tested whats listed in the thread...

[fiddesmkIII]

I have read all 6 pages... but really what is the best motor oil for a 7mgte? Could you please simplify for me? :)

[PbXAssassinX1524]

A 0W-30 would be good for you.

[BowserCake]

where is the spreadsheet? I couldn't seem to find the link. Thanks

[GrandLordKhorne]

http://www.evilturbopenguins.com/oil_tests.htm

All data is posted in the abv link...

lol on the 0w30 coment...

fiddesmkIII: What oil is best is subjective. It all depends on what quality of the oil is most important to you, which depends in turn on how you drive/treat your MkIII and what it is used for + how offten it is used.

Also... Donate dam it.... www.evilturbopenguins.com I did an ass load for you people, is $0.25 really going to kill you....

[fiddesmkIII]

Well if you don't mind giving me your opinion. I will be using it as a DD. No more than 300hp anytime soon. Also the engine has about 40-50k on it. Is this enough info? Also money isn't an issue. I'd run out and buy Royal Purple if needs be. Thanks in advance.

[GrandLordKhorne]

Personal opn, 10w40 and eather Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec. You can spend the money on Amsoil if you want but you don't really need it.

[PbXAssassinX1524]

lol on this thread

He wanted it simplified so I gave him a recommendation that will work great for his application. 10W-40 (and I'm being very general here) is unnecessarily thick, especially for Canada.

[GrandLordKhorne]

I would not run 0w-anything in a turbo... The 0w30 and 0w40 oils tend to be thin, lack in the coating department and have lousy heat transfer characteristics.... Most of the new ‘synthetic’ 10w30 and 10w40 oils are so close on viscosity that it is ridicules, but the 10w40 tends to transfer heat and coat things better, which are important characteristics in Turbo motors (means longer turbo life)… I would also point out that the 0w40 that Mobil makes has a higher coefficient of friction than the 10w40 by Castrol. I would be hard pressed to call Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec in the 10w40 or 10w30 range too thick or thing for just about any application (save air cooled where I always recommend 15w50 Mobil 1) and would air on the side of conservative when thinking about how they protect compared. Having said that, the people running 15w50 and the likes in there Supra, there just wasting power and fuel econ.

But to each there own, run what ever you want...

[legion]

I learned so much form this thread just like to say thanks to everyone who participated in the research and throwin their 2 cents in!
thank again

[686supra]

What would be the best oil for a 1jz?
Syntec 10w40?
im not to smart with cars, and im gonna be buyin an 1jz wihin the next year so im just wondering

[GrandLordKhorne]

Ya, syntec 10w40 is fine for a 1J.

[Emik87t]

so then what would be good for the higher hp mk3s? say 600+?

[GrandLordKhorne]

High HP just means you need a good strong lube system. I would still stick with the same types of oils though. I might suggest trading up to a 5w50 or a 15w50 though.

[IJ.]

Very impressed with the Synthetic Castrol Edge 10/60 I'm using in this build.
(550rwhp LPG fueled)

[Emik87t]

So do you find the GTX better than the others, i just did a rebuild and ill be dry filling.

[ethan12510]

royal pruple!!

[GrandLordKhorne]

Personaly, I like Amsoil in my 1J and Syntec in everything ells. Royal Purple dose not imp me all that much.

[Boostedmkiii]

I run cheap-o generic oil when breaking my motor in, but then switch to Royal Purple 10w30 and like it enough to keep using it.

[Emik87t]

So do you recommend synthetic? I only drive during late spring, summer, and early fall because i live in iowa and gets cold so i store my supra.

[GrandLordKhorne]

It depends more on how you drive and what you drive than when you drive.

[Emik87t]

a supra and i drive it hard some times but not all the time.

[SideWinderGX]

looks like ill be getting 10W40 when i get my oil change this thursday haha...you live close enoug hto me where temperatures are almost the same...except that you live closer to the ocean. i have lake ontario though ;)

oh, and for the record (since i work in a walmart TLE) the bulk walmart brand 5W30 and 10W30 that we use is QuakerState. very nice job on all this information! im looking forward to the exhaust information as well...right now i have no exhaust past my second cat, but a megamouth downpipe (replaces turbo elbow too) from cooleeze, and their catback system (all 3") is on the way. ive heard numbers around 15 HP for downpipe, exhaust and turbo elbow each...and i wanna find out haha =P

[phatbimmer]

My buddy ran Royal Purple 10W30 on the car before I bought it and I continue to run it. I now have 86K miles on the car and its a MK III 87' supra, and I have no problems, I never used Royal Purple before this so I am happy with the brand. I was going to use AMSOIL but at the last min. chose to stick with RP.

So yeh I'm all synthetic on the motor.

[GrandLordKhorne]

^ Royal Purple dose not make a synthetic oil...

[Durrr]

pretty sure this will end the argument on whether it is synthetic or conventional.

http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/rpmoa.html

[GrandLordKhorne]

^ It's a Petroleum product, like it or not, regardless of what they call it, it is not synthetic. It's just like Mobil 1 in that sense.

If it was Molyvan 855 based, it would have a 29 CFR 1910.1200 warning in it’s MSDS. It would also not say, Base Oil with synthetic additives, it would say Synthetic Lubricant.

Simply the fact that there petroleum product is synthesized in a lab as a derivative of a petroleum product dose not make it a true synthetic. A True synthetic is not made from a hydrocarbon/petroleum base at all.

It’s sort of like the statement Organic food. Of which Organic refers to carbon content in a substance, so technically almost all food could be labled organic, however from a food standpoint it refers more to how it is grown. In the same way, once it is processed beond simple “cracking” any oil on the shelf can be called synthetic. But in reality only a couple of oils out there are true none petroleum product which are not derived from petroleum. Throws that are, tend to be bright red and smell sweet. There are only a couple of true synthetic manufacturers out there and royal purple while a very good product is not truly a synthetic.

[Durrr]

so file a false advertising suit against them. Synthetic simply means they synthesized certain portions of the blend out of base stocks to enhance certain properties of the oil. You cannot produce hydrocarbons w/o carbon, therefore, nothing is completely synthetic.

[GeneStarWindGSW]

What would be the best Synthetic Oil to run in a stock 2jz-ge?

[GrandLordKhorne]

Durrr: Some oil is not hydrocarbon based at all and is truly synthetic. Which is my whole point, the difference between what we think of as synthetic and what they tell us is synthetic is not always true. But there are a couple of truly amazing synthetic products out there if you look past all the white noise and fined the ones that are based on Molyvan 855.




As far as oil to run in a stock 2JZ-GE, it dose not really matter, any of the good brands of oil weather it be labeled “conventional” or “Synthetic” will do the job just fine. Your engine dose not really have any special needs and the only time there is any real advantage to be gained is when you have something that is hard on oil (like an MR. a larger Turbo system or an air/oil cooled motor). If it where me I would just run GTX, Syntec or Mobil 1 in the appropriate weight.

[Durrr]

molyvan is an additive, and oils cannot be based upon a substance such as that. if that was the base for a lubricant, it would have great friction coefficient, but would shear instantly upon loading.

[GrandLordKhorne]

I hate to tell you this, Molyvan 855 is used as the base for most turbine oil… Take it from some one who has read the drums of oil at more than 15 power plants… And having handled the stuff in raw form at the manufacturing facility in CT, it is slick as $hite and thin as water. Some of the other Molyvan variants are thicker and are used as additives however.

[Durrr]

Well, funny you should mention turbine oil, as thats what I work with all the time. There are molybdenum additives which we use, however, the base is a 190w oil. Molyvan 855, otherwise known as colloidal molybdenum, is not designed as a base oil, nor could it be one. There are still base stocks that need to be used in conjunction with this additive. Here is a little basis on how oil works using a thrust bearing as an example.

http://www.tpub.com/content/engine/14037/img/14037_74_2.jpg

The oil wedge an exploded example of how oil works. It creates a film using high surface tension to prevent metal parts from contacting. Now, in cases in which the surface tension breaks down, to prevent metal parts from effectively chewing each other to bits, additives are added to enhance the performance of the oil. Molybdenum is an excellent friction modifier and film strength enhancer, and as such, is used primarily as a pressure additive in steam turbines. Things that need to be worried about in motor oils as opposed to turbine oils are combustion produced acids, which are taken care of by buffers, ash content from combustion, as well higher shearing resistance which is generally taken care of by Boron additives (due to contact w/ the piston rings).

Again, moly can't be used as a base as, yes, it is very slick, however, it does not have the film strength needed to combat metal to metal contact. If metal to metal contact DOES occur, then moly prevents excessive wear by decreasing friction.

[Durrr]

As a side note, motor oils containing large amounts of molybdenum are Mobil 1 0w-20(excellent shear resistance), 5w-20, 0w-40 (all mobil 1) as well as Castrol Syntec in the lighter weights. Due to higher film strength with thicker oils, higher levels of molybdenum are not required to prevent wear.

If you want more information on this stuff, all this information is on www.bobistheoilguy.com along with spectral analyses and reviews on oil performance.

[phatbimmer]

Amsoil says there best, I'm sticking to Royal Purple :D

[badboysupra]

I use NAPA (Valvoline) 15w50 Synthetic Oil. and my engine has been running great for the past 3K miles, plus 20 passes in the Drag Strip. and my engine is a used "JDM" 7MGTE.


aite, peace.

[LVMKIII2JZ]

i didnt go through every post bout what about AMSOIL!!!!

[GrandLordKhorne]

^Start reading. It's in there (3 diff samples if mem is right) and I'm sick of re-posting over and over.

[supra429]

good job! with this you are now guaranteed to go to heaven.

but ya castrol syntec has always been the tastiest and sweetest motor oil i agree.

[dejacky]

g...ya castrol syntec has always been the tastiest and sweetest motor oil i agree. Are you referring to Castrol Syntec 0w30 European Formula "made in Germany" ?

[williamb82]

http://www.evilturbopenguins.com/oil_tests.htm

All data is posted in the abv link...

lol on the 0w30 coment...

fiddesmkIII: What oil is best is subjective. It all depends on what quality of the oil is most important to you, which depends in turn on how you drive/treat your MkIII and what it is used for + how offten it is used.

Also... Donate dam it.... www.evilturbopenguins.com I did an ass load for you people, is $0.25 really going to kill you....

since the link is dead, did anyone save the data from this page? if so can you post it?

[sixpack]

I would not run 0w-anything in a turbo...

That whole 0w-30 BS is propagated by the guy over on stupidmania,
I think he's called Jay-Dumb or something.

I actually pulled up info on the 0w30 'Germ' Castrol.
It's only for COLD WEATHER !!

Castrol makes a 10w30 and 10w40 in that line,
But unfortunately, they only import the thin crap to the USA.

[OneJSupra]

I use Red line 0w-40. I do not think 0 weight is BS or an issue on any motor boosted or not. The first number is the weight of the oil when it is cold which is VERY important during the cold start process. You want that oil to flow quickly to lubricate your motor fast.

[BuzzBurner]

I stopped at page five lol. but good write up definitely helped!!

[peterJDM]

^ Lol. 5 year old post by the way :drool: still helpful though, in a different way lol. He gave us information on the oil instead, which I honestly HAVE NO IDEA what it all means. I just use 10w40 Syntec and that's that.

[whitem1ke88]

Nobody has a copy of the link?

[SideWinderGX]

That whole 0w-30 BS is propagated by the guy over on stupidmania,
I think he's called Jay-Dumb or something.

I actually pulled up info on the 0w30 'Germ' Castrol.
It's only for COLD WEATHER !!

Castrol makes a 10w30 and 10w40 in that line,
But unfortunately, they only import the thin crap to the USA.

Everyone, please ignore this shitty post as it contains a whole lot of misinformation.

Maybe when sixpack understands what the 0, W, and 30 stand for (and why they are in that order), and how oil viscosities work over a temperature range...he will make a better post.



whitemike: what link?
edit again: never mind, I see what you're talking about.

[boostlife7]

i use 5w30 valvaline syn blend in my 7m it seems ok