Lexus afm + stock 440's = bad idea? [Archive]

amorak

10-10-2002, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by Supra_saver
i do have plans for higher boost though which is why i want the afm. i've got everything ready to mod the engine (eg. intake and exhaust) but i need a good point to start at, i was thinking mbc anc the lexus afm, then the 550cc's when i get the money... 15 psi is good for me.. i wouldn't want to run any higher.. for the next while anyway! =) what do you think of this afm idea???

You're going to blow your turbo, and possibly do some good damamge to your motor if you do as you say.

first off, 15PSI on the stock turbo with teh stock IC is roughly 17-18PSI at the wheel. The stock turbo is out of its efficeny range after roughyl 12-13PSI. So there goes the life expetancy of yer ct-26

now, 440's and a lexus is cutting it close, you'll be on the lean side of stoich in the best of situations. Though you wont neccisarily blow a piston the first time you start the car, continued runs at elevated boost will probably cause a few really bad lean times, aand you could blow a piston.

Ohh, did I mention that's assuming PERFECT FLOWING 440's, not the 13+year old stockers you have, that are all plugged and flowing different amounts?

You'll wreck you r engine if you run 440s and a lex for any amount of time, it's a simple fact with 13+ yr old injectors.

The lex afm upgrade was used as a way to bypass getting a VPC (or other expensive fuel managment systems) to run the 550's on an upgraded ct-26, you shouldnt be using it to effectively raise fuel cut, that's all you're doing.

Just get an FCD, it's cheaper, and it'll have the same effect on yer engine as old ass 440s and a lex will ;)

Raiden_83

10-10-2002, 01:07 AM

Ok here's a question on the same token. What if i need a new AFM b/c my maf has been obviously hacked, should i try to replace the stock or get the lex AFM even if i only run say 11-12psi?

ASL MKIII

10-10-2002, 01:23 AM

Supra saver,
Go buy a MKIV Fuel pump and an AFC. This will allow you to run a bit more boost safely, you can make more power and torque across the rpm band with some tuning and you will have the extra fuel you need to eventually upgrade your injectors and Turbo. No worries about leaning out and burning a piston!:)

General TJI

10-10-2002, 01:29 AM

I have a question..

Can a Lexus AFM and 550's work together properly w/o a SAFC or a like.. just the stock computer ?

I think I asked this once but forgot :D :eek:

witeenigma

10-10-2002, 01:50 AM

i believe it is OK to use stock computer, as that's what is described here:

http://fly.hiwaay.net/~rcarlile/lexus/lexus1.htm

he didn't have an SAFC at time of install.

i'm going thru the same mod, but i'm going to purchase an AFC in about a month and put all 3 (AFM, 550, AFC) in together. Already got an AFPR in there right now, so i'm not gonna have to worry about fuel pressure. hope that linked answered a lot of your questions

ma71supraturbo

10-10-2002, 02:40 AM

you going to get an upgraded fuel pump too?

Supra_saver

10-10-2002, 06:39 AM

thanks a lot for the help! what exactly is a FCD though? I've heard of things as a "fuel cut controler" but how effective are those and what exactly do they do? You are right though. I want to raise my boost as much as i can befor hitting fuel cut, and I don't plan on running the ct-26 past 11.5 psi. once I get the money it'll get the 57-1 trim on it as is suggested. All i'm aiming for is to get a pimpin supra that can beat any given civic on the street... i HATE those guy!:) I'm not not exactly sure where to start though with these mods?? I was thinking this annoying thing called fuel cut, to get me up to my 15 psi goal. and if i attain this with 550's, the lex afm and a boost controler (assuming my ct-26 is rebuilt) will my engine internals be at risk aside from a newly torqued OEM hg? thanks

btw, even if you don't know much about this stuff and just wanna give some advise on where to start, feel free! i've finally got the money saved to start modding but have no clue what to do! thanks a lot

~Mark

prsrcokr

10-10-2002, 08:13 AM

"You're going to blow your turbo, and possibly do some good damamge to your motor if you do as you say.

first off, 15PSI on the stock turbo with teh stock IC is roughly 17-18PSI at the wheel. The stock turbo is out of its efficeny range after roughyl 12-13PSI. So there goes the life expetancy of yer ct-26 "

It's a little more than 18psi at the compressor in this case. The stok WG is suspected to open ~11psi which means there is roughly a 5psi pressure drop across the stock IC system. Since pressure drop increases exponetially with manifold pressure you would be making a good deal more than 18psi when seeing 15 at the manifold on the stock induction system. If you want to run 14psi with out the 550/lex setup at least get a HKS Fcon so there will be some fuel mapping at that boost level. I don't recomend you run 14psi on the stock IC setup since you will be making in excess of 20 at the turbo (not good for that aged ct-26)
:rolleyes:

bcastine

10-10-2002, 10:34 AM

Ok here's a question on the same token. What if i need a new AFM b/c my maf has been obviously hacked, should i try to replace the stock or get the lex AFM even if i only run say 11-12psi?

If i am not mistaken the lexus afm has the same electronics as the stocker. With that in mind you could buy the lexus afm use the lexus electronics in the stocker and later use the lexus afm body with 550's when you get them. Thats if your stock afm body is still in working order, just a thought.

SuprAng

10-10-2002, 10:40 AM

huh, why would u need a lex afm to boost 15psi? no ur turbo will not blow at 15 psi, heck it wont blow until 30, u will detinate with a lex afm and 440's with no fuel managmement tho... all the afm does is give u 30 % more air, allowing fuel cut to go up... thats it... no power nothing more... its from a bigger eng. car and thats why it works, to me the lex 550s mod is useless, i de rather just save up for a vpc or standalone, or get an fcd and 550's to be safe... this topic has been raped to pieces, and no offense to anyone, but a rule of thumb i used when i was cluless on my supra.... if u dont know what it does, better not do it!...

Supra_Class

10-10-2002, 11:22 AM

It works fine & Here is PROOF!!!!

I have run a lexus AFM for ~2.5+ yrs on stock 440's inj. The only problems I have run into was keeping trannys in my car. For 2+ yrs I have run 12-13.5 psi on stock inj', (Now with 209K miles on them) stock turbo, stock fuel & stock IC. I dynoed 285 rwhp & 364 ft/lbs on 10psi of boost. I still ran rich at WOT. About 3 mos ago I installed a RRE IC, hard pipes & RFL BOV & then turnd the boost up to 15 psi. At this point I'm still running rich at wot. & don't have any issues with detonation. Last week My stock head gasket has started to go bad & opens up under high boost causing problems. I relate this to having put ~80K+ miles running 10-15 psi on a stock gasket & bolts.

Steve

witeenigma

10-10-2002, 12:27 PM

hm... it works fine, now you have a bhg...:rolleyes:

personally, if all you want is to blow past civics, get yourself intake exhaust and an ebc - you'll be fine w/o fuel cut up to 11.5psi or so. keep it at 10 and you're set to burn all ricers.

if you want to completely burn them... then you need 550s anyhow, and since you're going to get a bigger trim, that just means more boostage, which equals more fuel! it'll all add up somewhere down the line, once you go past bpu

General TJI

10-10-2002, 12:38 PM

Who cares about Civics... seriously..
I never lost a race to a Civic in my damn truck !

Now.. Camaros / 'Stangs our something else !

SuprAng

10-10-2002, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Supra_Class
It works fine & Here is PROOF!!!!

I have run a lexus AFM for ~2.5+ yrs on stock 440's inj. The only problems I have run into was keeping trannys in my car. For 2+ yrs I have run 12-13.5 psi on stock inj', (Now with 209K miles on them) stock turbo, stock fuel & stock IC. I dynoed 285 rwhp & 364 ft/lbs on 10psi of boost. I still ran rich at WOT. About 3 mos ago I installed a RRE IC, hard pipes & RFL BOV & then turnd the boost up to 15 psi. At this point I'm still running rich at wot. & don't have any issues with detonation. Last week My stock head gasket has started to go bad & opens up under high boost causing problems. I relate this to having put ~80K+ miles running 10-15 psi on a stock gasket & bolts.

Steve

have u done any tuning? no way ur running stock everytthing and a lex afm and a boost controller... that wouldnt last u a day... and 13 psi is nothing to brag about, but 15 on a stock hg :eek:... not too smart... Btw i can get up to about 15 psi b4 fuel cut on stock afm, what advantage is there to leaning my engine then?

Kingsoup

10-10-2002, 05:11 PM

Man thats a tricky bit with a retorqued stock HG. If it starts leaking at high pressure levels and you don't know it, it'll start cutting into the deck and deeply into the head. I would be thinking MHG before big psi. You might already have cuts in the gasket fire-rings, tricky bit man, maybe it'll work on the stock HG, maybe not.

Running Lexus AFM on 440's is scary, thats lean country man, I would avoid that for sure.

Supra_Class

10-10-2002, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by witeenigma
hm... it works fine, now you have a bhg...:rolleyes:

What a sophomoric statement Did my post just fly over your head? Yea the Lexus & 440 inj. set up has worked great for 2.5+ yrs. on my 89T. Yes I did state that I have a leaking head gasket now. That is attributed to the age/milliage on the Engine & gasket. The Engine has 209000+ mile on it. The stock Gasket has 80000+ miles on it (Orig HG replaced at 120000). I guess I have put about 50000 miles (Daily Driver) on my Supra in the past 2.5 yrs with the Lexus & 440 inj. If the setup alone was going to kill a piston I think I would have done that by now. Only thing I have destroyed using the set up were 4 stock trannys because of the power & Tq I'm making. Now I have the PHP stg. 3 race trany & 3200 stall conv.

MrBoost

10-10-2002, 05:33 PM

My typical answer question to this is:

If you are asking, you must not be sure, therefore might be new to modding your 7M. Running the stock AFM with 440s and no tuning is not a good combo for nu-b's.

If you know what your are doing and want to push the envelope for some reason, then yeah, it's doable with certain amount of tuning, control and monitoring.

For example, I run 14psi daily on a stock turbo/afm/fuel/HG at 97K miles only with an FCD. This is a cheap package for the moment and I would not sell it to a nu-b either. I do have a spearco, intake, and elbow-back exh system, so that helps a bit too.

"Cheap Fast Reliable, pick two." - wise booster.

Supra_Class

10-10-2002, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by SuprAng

have u done any tuning? no way ur running stock everytthing and a lex afm and a boost controller... that wouldnt last u a day...

I have a K&N FIPK, Custom DP,No Cat, 2.75 Crush bent pipe,Apex-i Dunk, Blitz DSBC Type-S, Blitz FaTT DC 2, Lexus AFM. 12V FP resister by pass mod. RRE Custom IC, Turbo XS RFL, Custom Hard pipes, 3 angl valve job. Not much more then stg 4.

Stock fuel pump, stock inj, stock fuel lines, stock HG, Stock head bolts, & engine w/209K+ miles

13 psi is nothing to brag about, but 15 on a stock hg :eek:... not too smart... Btw i can get up to about 15 psi b4 fuel cut on stock afm

Its not?? There are alot of folks that would love to run 13 psi. Hell I got some great #'s on the Dyno at 10 psi. If you can get 15 psi on the stock AFM w/o a FCD then thats awsome!! Never have I heard anyone being able to do that w/o a FCD or ECU upgrade. I alwas hit FCO at 11.5-12 psi befor I had the Lexus AFM. If you think that running 15 psi on a stock HG isn't smart then I don't want to hear what you think about doing it on a stock HG with the head bolts tqed to only 60 ft lbs;) I retourqed them down to 75 ft/lbs this past spring.

Steve

Supra_Class

10-10-2002, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by SupraSport.com
My typical answer question to this is:

If you are asking, you must not be sure, therefore might be new to modding your 7M. Running the stock AFM with 440s and no tuning is not a good combo for nu-b's.

If you know what your are doing and want to push the envelope for some reason, then yeah, it's doable with certain amount of tuning, control and monitoring.

Very good point. I agree 100%

KirkMKIV

10-10-2002, 06:23 PM

I've been in an MK3 with stockers and lexus AFM, with tuning it should be alright..... its easy to jump into this question and mislead someone saying "you are going to mess up your engine" blah blah blah.... with no supporting facts. If you want to run the lex AFM with the stock turbo make sure you are not leaning out... and also have plans to get a set of 550's.... if you go with what u r saying, which includes the 550's then u r good to go my friend. invest in a turbo upgrade as well. :)

Bishop92T

10-10-2002, 08:04 PM

What a sophomoric statement Did my post just fly over your head? Yea the Lexus & 440 inj. set up has worked great for 2.5+ yrs. on my 89T. Yes I did state that I have a leaking head gasket now. That is attributed to the age/milliage on the Engine & gasket. The Engine has 209000+ mile on it. The stock Gasket has 80000+ miles on it (Orig HG replaced at 120000).

Lexus + 440s = running lean = detonation
Small detonation over time will weaken the stock HG, possibly without hurting the compression rings. Age has nothing to do with BHG if properly installed with no detonation.

Supra_saver

10-10-2002, 09:30 PM

okay, so after all of this said. I should just wait untill I can get both lex afm and the 550's becuase after 1 rebuild of the 7M... well i wouldn't be looking forward to the next one! Yea, i do want to blow by the civics but more than that I've got a friend that has a shelby cobra kit car and I have to beat him! so it's cubic inches vs. jap technology.... I've got about $1500 canadian to spend so someone point me in the right direction here where to start modding... I've grown upl with cars so don't give me this "the new-b's shouldn't think about modding" crap becuase c'mon WHO LEAVES A SUPRA STOCK?! I saw a supra with a trailer hitch on it and it almost brought me to tears!! I love these cars just as most of you do and out on the concrete streets the mkiii's need to make a name for themselves... i'm tired of seeing riced out civics and 88-92 stangs being the fastest around... IT'S OUR TURN!!!
so c'mon someone give me a place to start my modds, I have a K&N FIPK and 2 1/2 strait pipes from the turbo to the exhaust... so air flow is good, but can be better (with this afm?) or maybe a FCD? this money is burning a hole in my pocket so quick time guys... what do i do?!

SuprAng

10-11-2002, 01:10 AM

upgraded ct, 550s, afc, ebc, lexus, afm, intake exhaust, intercooler... u should be able to beat vipers with that... i dunno bout shelbys they are light! that will run u way more than 1500 cdn tho... good luck

ZaZZn

10-11-2002, 04:32 AM

I'm running 440+lexus+S-AFR. Been like 4 months no probs.

Bobby my friend been doing it for 1.5 years. No probs.

He runs 1.2 bar I run 1.0-1.1 gotta get on the dyno to figure out whats up.. My egt's are nuts 1600+ sometimes but A/F gague reads rich. I make 1600 EGT's on stock boost something's up with that damn gague.

Supra_saver

10-11-2002, 07:26 AM

alright thanks guys, I'm going to invest in the lexus afm and the 550's then just to be safe, and a mbc. all that should be attainable with the 1500 i've got?? I hope! i'm pretty sure that even with this said and done the supra will be a lot faster than what it is right now! i've still got my engine sitting in "sleep mode" while I have my knock sensors on order, hopefully they will come in today :)!!! anyways i'm off to school thanks again

Supra_Class

10-11-2002, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by Bishop92T

Lexus + 440s = running lean = detonation

I agree if you add a stock CT-26 running 17-18 psi or a upgraded Ct-26 60-1 running 12+ psi to the above.

Small detonation over time will weaken the stock HG, possibly without hurting the compression rings. Age has nothing to do with BHG if properly installed with no detonation.

If I was going to have any detonation it would have been high. I'm a very agressive drive that lives by the drive like you stole it rule.;) When I 1st installed the Lexus AFM I ran 15-18 psi for almost 2 mos on the stock IC. That was before I knew any better :rolleyes:

Supra_Saver
If you get the 550's I suggest that you invest in a Apex-i AFC or a HKS AFR so that you can adjust & tune. Also a upgraded Fuel pump to feed them. I agree 200% with SuprAng's last post

Good luck & Happy boostin :D

Steve

Supra_saver

10-11-2002, 02:53 PM

it shall be done, thanks alot for this help.. as for me, i'm off to get my knock sensors... $424.00 for two... what the hell.... oh well it had to be done!! soon i'll pickup that lex afm, hks afc and the 550's and a mbc, as for upgrading the ct and a new IC... that'll have to wait untill i get more money
thanks again

SuprAng

10-11-2002, 04:17 PM

check ur pm suprasaver... and dont even bother doing those mods without intake exhaust first... actually to be honest ur going in the wrong direction, theres no point in having an afc, 550's and lex afm if ur on the stock turbo... buy an ic and hardpipes and boost to just under fuel cut, that should make u more than happy for now

SuprAng

10-11-2002, 04:18 PM

ps i migh have spare knock sensors and ill give em to u way cheaper

ZaZZn

10-11-2002, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Supra_saver
it shall be done, thanks alot for this help.. as for me, i'm off to get my knock sensors... $424.00 for two... what the hell.... oh well it had to be done!! soon i'll pickup that lex afm, hks afc and the 550's and a mbc, as for upgrading the ct and a new IC... that'll have to wait untill i get more money
thanks again

You're kidding me.. I just sold 2 for 20 usd. LOL 400 FOR A BLASTED KNOCK SENSOR... what crack pipe is Toyo on?

Supra_saver

10-11-2002, 06:09 PM

fu$k.... i just installed them and shit what a difference they make! but once again... ah shit what the hell this sux!!! yeah those jap basterds.... i HATE buying from the dealership!!!! If anyones got anything i can use to throw onto this engine pm me.... haha i obviously pay top dollar!! :(
damnit.. oh well... the supra's worth every last penny :)

1QwikMK3

02-20-2003, 12:29 AM

Civickiller... yes you can take the lexus sensor and put it in the stock afm body. It will work just fine..

the only thing you may notice is that the connector for the afm may not click/lock into place on the lexus sensor... but it'll still be ok, it should not come loose.

upgradedsupra

02-20-2003, 01:56 AM

I had stock AFM, stock injectors, FCD, S-AFC. TT Denso pump, AFPR, and boost control last year and ran 362 wheel hp.

I wouldn't upgrade the AFM just yet. Everyone has their own way of doing things though. FCD is not the way to go for the long run. I have a different system now.

Duane

Not sure if that made sense.. :rolleyes:

adjuster

02-20-2003, 04:00 AM

Cheapo steps to power.
Good motor first. (Check compression, and make sure it is close to even across all 6.)
Then do a basic tune up. New plugs, wires, belts, and check your hoses. The stockers last 200k or more in many cases, so just don't replace them if they are in good shape.
Free flow intake of your choice. Drop in, adapter or FIPK, they all flow better than stock.
Replace the stock exhaust. Get a good Down pipe, and either pick one with an elbow built in, or buy the elbow too. Choose a cat back of your budget and taste in sound. They all flow better than stock.
Now, with the exhaust, tune up, good motor (this includes checking the HG if you want, it's cheap insurance to re-tourqe the head to 70-75 ft lbs if you don't have a leaky HG already.) and the basic supporting mods done, you can start to add some boost. Cheap way is 4 medium thickness washers. Just shim the WG with 2 washers per side, and you will see about 10 psi. If you hit FC, just take out a washer. If you want to try more, add a washer per side till you hit FC. If you leave it at this, the ECU will cut fuel before you run lean, so no burned pistons etc. unless your have a really bad injector, and that is a totally different subject. (We are going to assume your car runs ok like most of the Toyota's I've dealt with.)
If you want more boost, you will need a boost gauge, and either a O2 gauge, or a EGT. (I suggest both. I just bought the Dawes Devices O2, and I really like it.) The EGT is from Omori, and they rule.
With the gauges to keep an eye on things, don't run lean, keep your EGT's under 1450 at the elbow etc, you can start to turn up the boost again. You'll hit FC at 12 or 13 psi.
Next step is more fuel and pressure. You will need a AFPR, and a pump upgrade. I suggest Walbro. I just bought mine for under 100.00. Do a search for the site on here. John L. has a great deal on premade AFPR and install kits, or there are others you can go with too. If you have a EBC by now, you can make quick changes to boost levels, but the shims work fine up to about 15 psi on a stock CT so far. (and from what I've seen here and on other peoples MK3's.) The easy trick to get past the FC at 12/13 is to leak some air past the meter. You can either back out the air screw, or you can add a breather/filter to an unused air inlet fitting on the accordian intake hose. (By this time you might have removed your PCV dump as it coats the intake with oil vapor, and/or you just want to spit in the face of environmentalism... LOL) A simple backing out of the air screw in conjunction with a breather can net you 15 psi easy. Do the breather first, then adjust the screw out till you get a nice consistant FC at about 16 psi, then you don't have to worry about running lean, unless a injector fails, then you are in trouble, but that is true at 10psi too.
So long story short, with the right mods, you can run 15 psi on 440's, but you will need more fuel, more pressure, gauges to monitor the engine and air fuel ratio, and some brass balls to drive your MK3 with a stock suspension at this point.
I think we skipped the entire suspension and clutch upgrade you will need to support more power. LOL That is another story, so live long, don't boost too much, and don't sweat it, if you just want to dust off some Civic's, 10 psi will do the trick every time unless they are running some serious mods on the Honda.

BullS101

02-20-2003, 10:39 AM

The only purpose of the lexus AFM upgrade, as far as I know, is that it increases airflow (roughly 25% I think) and the 550cc injectors are about a 25% increase as well. This allows the stock setup to run a fuel mixture close to stock, without purchasing any aftermarket devices to control fuel mixture.

SuprAng

02-20-2003, 10:42 AM

whoa eho dug this one up!! thats an old thread... i read my old posts and i feel i was stupider then LOL...

jwebster

02-20-2003, 10:52 AM

I agree with Suprasport, Its most certainly doable with experience but if your not sure, then your much much better off getting the entire fuel system upgraded. Then you will not toast your motor. Lexus and 440's will work, but you will want a dyno or a WB 02 to be sure your ok.

fuzebox

02-20-2003, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by SuprAng
whoa eho dug this one up!! thats an old thread... i read my old posts and i feel i was stupider then LOL...

:agreed:

1QwikMK3

02-22-2003, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by Civickiller
thanks... one more question... the connectors are the same right???

yes they are the same :)

OneWingedAngel

02-22-2003, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by SuprAng
whoa eho dug this one up!! thats an old thread... i read my old posts and i feel i was stupider then LOL...

:D
Whats with all the old threads being dug up latley? This is like the fourth one in like two days that was 6+ months old.

1QwikMK3

02-22-2003, 03:51 AM

Originally posted by OneWingedAngel

:D
Whats with all the old threads being dug up latley? This is like the fourth one in like two days that was 6+ months old.

Civic Killer was asking about doing the lexus afm mod w/440's...he started a thread on it... we told him to search and he did... and found this thread, I decided to stick it since it comes up all the time.

QWIKSTRIKE

02-22-2003, 06:56 AM

It can be done! I did it for months: however if you dont have an afr gauge to monitor the injector firing ,and also need an egt gauge to monitor the exhaust gauges you will be lean! At the very least you need an egt gauge and tune to where you dont go over 1400 degrees at any time or good bye engine! Trust me you will get to 1400 degrees and without an egt gauge to monitor egt's you are begging for extreme lean coditions that will blow your engine! :cool: ;) :rolleyes:

BTW dont try it without adjustable fuel pressure regulator to up the gas to the injectors! If you dont you are definitely asking for death!

viperlocc

02-24-2003, 05:32 AM

you can run the lexus AFM along with an upgraded fuel pump (walbro) and an intercooler....but if you just want to use the lexus AFM just for a couple races, then the upgraded fuel pump is all you will need as long as you remove the lexus AFM after ur races and dont day drive with it on....

moua4c

02-27-2003, 11:13 AM

What if you are a NA and is going NA-T, would the lexus AFM mod with 440 injectors be a good idea or should the 550 injectors be use?

1QwikMK3

03-07-2003, 09:33 PM

same rule applies bro.. you will want bigger injectors.

sm623cc

03-09-2003, 07:07 PM

can i run the 60 trim turbo, using stock injectors and afm? but upgrading to walbro fuel pump and afpr?

Dr. Lightspeed

03-09-2003, 10:50 PM

I come here once in a while to read the stuff here and it completely amazes me about how cheap people are here. Price for most of you is what you do now don't get me wrong there are some high quality builders on here. You buy a high quality piece of Japanese engineering and just want to slap this on it or that. You here about a mod called the lexus afm and everyone jumps for their wallet. Have any of you even looked into why the lexus mod works. Ok I will tell you the lexus afm is excactly 25% bigger and wow oh my guess what 550's are exactly 25% bigger than 440's so guess what this allows more air properly metered aloowing more boost without worry of fuel cut. So let me cut this short using a lexus afm without 550's is just plain stupid you are probally gonna blow up your motor but then that will probally happen because premium is also too expensive to run in your prize car. I don't care if your brothers cousin friend who walks a dog for a guy is running lexus afm with 440's and has gotten away with it for years with no damage it is cheap and stupid. The idea here is to tune your car too the max. Oh yea for the last time also those stupid a/f meters made by autometer and the like are gonna blow your engines because they do not tell you the proper air fuel ratio and wot which is where it counts. Yea I am shure I am gonna get flamed like "well I do this cause this is all I can afford). I am a professional tuner and have tuned many different vehicles and really couldn't care what you say. It is your car if you wanna be cheap and frig it up go ahead the guys that do it right will run faster and longer. Do a little research ask some questions and be smart not cheap.

QWIKSTRIKE

03-13-2003, 05:56 PM

Drlightspeed it is always good to hear from professionals like yourself. However; autometer afr gauges work if they are used correctly! Just go to the discoverer of the lexus afm upgrade homepage and do some research from the guy who made it work first! No one is saying to tune with an afr! Also nothing is infallible. However an afr guage accompanied by an egt guage is the optimum setup for those not using a wide band 02 setup. Even with a wideband 02 setup it is not a bad idea to have an afr gauge. The afr guage tells us and gives us and an idea of our injectors are firing and that my friend does not equate to a bad idea. Also people do what they like and what you say is partly correct. However no mattert how right you may be it doesnt give you the right to call people "stupid" stupid!:rolleyes: ;) :cool:

Dr. Lightspeed

03-16-2003, 02:36 PM

The only thing an afr gauge is gonna tell you is if you are lean or rich at idle. If you are rich or lean at idle the ecu is gonna compensate. If you want to risk an expensive engine due to being cheap then maybe I should refrain that statement you are either rich or stupid. Yes an egt is an excellent way to tune a car however the autometer afr guage is just a bunch of pretty flashing lights.

Larry_A

03-17-2003, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by QWIKSTRIKE
Drlightspeed it is always good to hear from professionals like yourself. However; autometer afr gauges work if they are used correctly! Just go to the discoverer of the lexus afm upgrade homepage and do some research from the guy who made it work first! No one is saying to tune with an afr! Also nothing is infallible. However an afr guage accompanied by an egt guage is the optimum setup for those not using a wide band 02 setup. Even with a wideband 02 setup it is not a bad idea to have an afr gauge. The afr guage tells us and gives us and an idea of our injectors are firing and that my friend does not equate to a bad idea. Also people do what they like and what you say is partly correct. However no mattert how right you may be it doesnt give you the right to call people "stupid" stupid!:rolleyes: ;) :cool:
I'm not a professional, but I know how to tune, well.

Have you ever thrown darts over your shoulder, while aiming with a mirror...that's swinging back & forth in front of your face? That's what I thought of when I saw your "optimum" setup for "those not using a wideband O2" commentary.

I've seen more than one motor blow with peak EGTs under 1250F, preturbo. EGTs are slow. Keep this in mind. EGTs will follow a bell-curve, where they rise, peak, then drop the leaner you run. When you run critically lean, & blow the motor in conjunction with low EGTs, it's because that bell curve transition happened before the gauge could react. If you wish to call that a tuning tool, that's your prerogative.

And in case anyone was unsure, cheap AF meters are useless for tuning. USELESS. I get a kick outta the people who compare millivolt readings of their OEM O2 sensors, LOL.

Optimum? No, not even if you're cheap. For 1/2 the cost of a good EGT gauge, a real tuning session would be more worthwhile, & educational.

I won't call anyone stupid.;)

QWIKSTRIKE

03-17-2003, 07:28 AM

Read my post Larry A it says nothing ABOUT TUNING! Also if you check Reg Reimer's poist for Optimum setup for monitoring he suggest using afr guage as well. The afr guage can show the firing of injectors lean or rich. Althought the values are average and not nearly as accurate as a wide band, We all know it's not used for tuning! SO WHY THE HELL ARE YOU GUYS SEEING ANYWHERE THAT IT SAYS TUNE WITH A FREAKING AFR! DONT GET IT TWISTED!

BTW Larry A Im a big fan of yours and love the oldschool central webpage and have nothing but admiration and respect for you. However you will see that I dont suggest tuning at all in any of my post ever! Also I never mention tuning with an afr. However I truly believe like Reg says it is optimum to see how things are going! " See bottom quote"!

The O2 sensor meter is another useful gauge that gives the driver a visual look
at what the ECU is doing to keep your engine safe under all the driving
conditions your engine will see. Stop and start traffic, highway cruising or with
your right foot to the floor board on the street dyno or track. I use this gauge
along with many other meters to give me a good indication of how the engine is
doing.

On a bone stock Supra this O2 meter is extra gear most likely not needed. Your
TCCS is looking at the condition of your engine hundreds of times a second and
responding to the engine's needs. On the other hand; if the Supra is modified
with the boost cranked up, large injector size, big exhaust, air filters and
upgraded turbos it is a good idea to see that your TCCS is doing its job
correctly.

SECTION F). GAUGES AND INSTRUMENTATION:

I find the O2 meter good piece of mind, I like to know what is happening under
the hood. By watching my test probes in the engine bay I know how hard or easy
my 7M-GTE engine is finding life in my Supra GTE. Some additional readings I
monitor in my car are as follows.

*Vf output- Jeff M's little fire cracker
*O2 data- SDS meter
*EGT Exhaust temp meter- HKS 60mm peak hold warning meter
*CHT, Charge air temp {before & after Intercooler}- Auto Avionics
*CHT, Cylinder head temp {#six spark plugs base temp}- Auto Avionics
*Oil Temp, {probe in oil pan}- HKS DIN warning meter
*Water Temp {probe in rad side of thermostat housing}- HKS DIN warning meter
*Oil Pressure- HKS DIN mechanical meter
*Boost Pressure- Auto meter mechanical

Written By

Reg Riemer

http://www.supras.com/pub/SONIC/MA70/TNSTCCS2.txt;) :cool:

May be I am wrong so here's my proof of what I read. Also no matter what anyone says my post never mentions to tune with an afr! I believe that the mind of you super smart tuners are playing tricks on you. So dont change any of my words or suggest that I state what has not been suggested! Man I can feel the heat!:p :cool: Also may I add that the proper way to get any engine tuned is taking it o a professional with all mods in place and having it dyno tuned! Something I thought I should add for all of you tuners. But my post said nothing about tuning! Also nothing is infallible I heard and red people with wide band 02 meters blowing engines, and no this doesnt mean I'm against them; And you statement about calling me stupid or not I bet you wouldnt say it to my face if you are being wise or sarcastic let's try to be adults and respect others even if we dis agree!;)

Last but not least this post is about 440's and lexus afm set up!
Not tuning,and I never said that anyone tune with 440s and a lexus afm! Nor have I suggested tuningwith afr from any post that I've made!Do I think 440's a good idea no. Have I done it yes! Was it stupid no because I was aware of the problems and didnt boost heavy and never let my egts get high! Why did I do it? I did it to see what happens, and it was cold and didnt want to install the 550s in the cold! Anything can be done with proper precautions! However its best done with 550's as everyone states!

Larry_A

03-17-2003, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by QWIKSTRIKE
.....No one is saying to tune with an afr! Also nothing is infallible. However an afr guage accompanied by an egt guage is the optimum setup for those not using a wide band 02 setup.....

Read the above & an inference is there. Whatever. Life will go on as we know it.
;)
Take care.

PHAT7MGTE

03-18-2003, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Supra_saver
it shall be done, thanks alot for this help.. as for me, i'm off to get my knock sensors... $424.00 for two... what the hell.... oh well it had to be done!! soon i'll pickup that lex afm, hks afc and the 550's and a mbc, as for upgrading the ct and a new IC... that'll have to wait untill i get more money
thanks again

$424???? send them back and go to advance. order the grand national knock sensor... they're ~$30 usd... there are some other GM knock sensors that will work thats cheaper (~15 or so) but i don't know what car or truck its on

QWIKSTRIKE

03-18-2003, 08:06 PM

Guys I dont want to go tit for tat so this is my last post. Some you you guys need to GROW up! Where is an inference about using an egt ang afr guage saying tune with egt and afr gauge! Do you guys know the difference between a shovel and a spade!
Also Reg Reimers uses the words optimum set up, and I dont see you geniuses saying anything about his use of the very same words! So shoot me for saying optimum; However it doesnt say or suggest optimum for tuning or tune with!
BTW I mean last post on this subject!

BTW I still admire and respect you as a knowledgeable person
Larry A!;) :cool:

sm623cc

03-21-2003, 04:36 PM

can u run a 60 trim with lex afm and stock injectors if u have some sort of tuning computer?

Larry_A

03-23-2003, 04:06 AM

Originally posted by QWIKSTRIKE
Guys I dont want to go tit for tat so this is my last post. Some you you guys need to GROW up! Where is an inference about using an egt ang afr guage saying tune with egt and afr gauge! .....

Originally posted by QWIKSTRIKE
.....However an afr guage accompanied by an egt guage is the optimum setup for those not using a wide band 02 setup.....

It says above, the EGT & AFR gauge are optimum for those not using the Widband O2.

So tell us, what the hell does one use a Wideband O2 setup for? I'll tell you...Tuning.

That, my friend, is an inference, whethr you care to recognize it, or not. Let's face it, e_Mail su<#s.

QWIKSTRIKE

03-23-2003, 08:00 AM

I wasnt going to answer but you make me! Look up inference in the dictionary my good friend! The least that should be said is I need a little clarification, Are you suggesting to tune with egts and afrs becuase we use an wide band meter to tune with. Just becuse a wide band meter is used to tune with doesnt mean all people will use it to tune! Some poeple who are not tuners will use it to monitor egt's. However thats your personal twist and you are not God my good friend. Dont let your rep as being Mr knowledgeable turn you into something else.Its says this in Reg Reimers post and you are'nt saying hes wrong! Thats because we know not to tune with an egt and afr gauge! Theres sometimes a statement about being too intelligent! My last statement to you now is going to be childish forgive me all!

Webster's meaning for inference attained fron websters on line!One entry found for inference.

Main Entry: in·fer·ence
Pronunciation: 'in-f(&-)r&n(t)s, -f&rn(t)s
Function: noun
Date: 1594
1 : the act or process of inferring : as a : the act of passing from one proposition, statement, or judgment considered as true to another whose truth is believed to follow from that of the former b : the act of passing from statistical sample data to generalizations (as of the value of population parameters) usually with calculated degrees of certainty
2 : something that is inferred; especially : a proposition arrived at by inference
3 : the premises and conclusion of a process of inferring

As you can see Mr Knowledgeable for me to infer someting about tuning with an afr and egt I would have to have beeen talking about tuning or mentioned tuning and to pass or merge the two statements in general coversation. Since a wide band
meter can be used for tuning and monitoring egts, and I never said to tune anywhere there is no reference to tuning any where case closed. Now show me Mr. College Pofessor my A.

BITE ME CUZ OPINIONS ARE LIKE ASSHOLES EVERYONE HAS ONE, AND YOURS DONT MIKE YOU RIGHT AND THE SAME GOES FOR ME!:o :eek: :cool:;)

Grow up little boyz!:p:rolleyes:

Larry_A

03-23-2003, 03:47 PM

Exertion, best describes your retort.

I knew you couldn't leave it alone, which is why I persisted. I stopped caring 'who was right' aftr your 1st reply, Ha! LOL.

Take care.

QWIKSTRIKE

03-23-2003, 05:54 PM

Welll damn it I did it for the same reason and decided to mess with ya! Damn now I really mean it teacher! But now that I got your attention maybe a teacher can help a student with a problem! I'll pm this one since it doesnt concern this post! Fun is over you wont dra me in again Professor!

1QwikMK3

03-24-2003, 12:58 AM

:hug:

Mike 92LX

04-05-2003, 08:45 PM

Be safe and run 550CCs
Period.

QWIKSTRIKE

04-07-2003, 08:21 AM

Safe is always better Mike! I also have seen your website and have always admired it as with the great teache Larry A.;)

2Jayzee

04-07-2003, 10:35 AM

I have some 550's from my mkiv for sale let me now.

2Jayzee

04-07-2003, 10:36 AM

I have some 550's from my mkiv for sale let me now.350 bucks

jwebster

04-07-2003, 10:55 AM

Those don't fit a mk3

Originally posted by 2Jayzee
I have some 550's from my mkiv for sale let me now.350 bucks

paddlenbike

04-07-2003, 03:15 PM

Everyone says to tune on a dyno, but happens when you tune at 16 psi then turn it down to 9 psi for daily driving--wouldn't that change your A/F ratios?

The advantage I see to having an EGT guage is if one of your fuel injectors craps out and reduces the amount of fuel being delivered to that cylinder, you will see a rise in combustion temps. In this scenario, an EGT guage might save your engine.

jtamulis

04-07-2003, 05:43 PM

I've bought 3 cars that were tuned properly that had lexus AFMs
and 440cc injectors. ALL had melted the motor. Yep it works
but when your motor melts, gimme a call and I'll buy what's left
of your car.

*read this twice* BUY THE 550s too. *now go read it twice more*
If you're gonna boost a Supra, do it right. Fuel is the most
important thing you can do for your supra.

Jeff
jtamulis@hotmail.com

ASL MKIII

04-10-2003, 12:26 AM

Paddlenbike,
There are two scenarios.
1 You run rich and very safe at low boost.
2 You tune and record your settings for low and high boost settings

An EGT guage will not catch one cylinder leaning out. The only way it would help in that scenario is if you had a probe in every cylinder.

The definitive answer on any AFM/injector combo is...
As long as the injectors can supply the necessary fuel and the car is tuned so as to provide it, IT DOESNT FRICKEN MATTER!!!

The car doesn't care if you have 1000cc's at 40 psi or 680's at 30 psi or a CIRCUS MIDGET crouched on your 3000 pipe spraying it in with a used windex bottle!!

In every case where a car has broken/melted a piston or blown a HG the car ran lean or detonated.... Period, end of story!

If it runs lean it is not properly tuned. That is the definition of tuned!

If you dont have the required parts the time and money to make sure the car is tuned properly then dont run the Lexus AFM.

If you have a fuel computer and preferrably an adjustable regulator then run the Lexus w/out 550s!

If you CAN and DO keep your car tuned then knock yourself out, run the Lexus with the 440's.

And now can we please not ever ever ever see this topic again?

"where's the Tylenol?"

paddlenbike

04-10-2003, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by ASL MKIII
An EGT guage will not catch one cylinder leaning out. The only way it would help in that scenario is if you had a probe in every cylinder.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I am curious if others feel the same way about the EGT guages...seems to me an EGT guage is useless if it won't show a leaning cylinder.

In every case where a car has broken/melted a piston or blown a HG the car ran lean or detonated.... Period, end of story!

If it runs lean it is not properly tuned. That is the definition of tuned!

This may seem like a stupid question, but what do you have to do to keep these cars in tune? Dyno them every six months to ensure A/F ratios, etc are all in check? Take it easy on me, I'm new to turbo cars. :p

ASL MKIII

04-11-2003, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by paddlenbike

This may seem like a stupid question, but what do you have to do to keep these cars in tune? Dyno them every six months to ensure A/F ratios, etc are all in check? Take it easy on me, I'm new to turbo cars. :p [/B]

:) LOL I dont have any problem with you:D ( or most peeps)
I just go off on small rants on occasion!

Yeah, basically you would retune your car or at least verify the A/F's are good every so often. Really you would only need to check your tune with the change of seasons...those that live in a year round mild climate like Florida wouldn't be as at risk as the folks that live up north where temps vary a good deal from season to season.
In between you can use an A/F gauge and/or EGT guage to tell you if something has changed significantly. I view the EGT and A/F guages as a warning light mostly; if you know where they usually register you can take any significant deviation as a flashing red light that says "go check your A/F's something has changed!"

just to be clear..only the first part of my post was aimed at you. :)

1QwikMK3

04-14-2003, 12:41 AM

An EGT guage will not catch one cylinder leaning out.

I am living proof that this is absolutly true.. an egt cannot respond quickly enough for you to realize there is a problem

slowyoda89

04-30-2003, 03:36 PM

Im running over 100psi on my laser.Rising rate regulater,550cc

I have a chart here in front of me.440cc injectors under 100%duty cycle in a 6 cylinder will flow 458hp worth of fuel.
550cc 100% duty cycle 567 worth of fuel

so 440cc injectors with a fuel pump and regulater will flow saftly i would guess around 400 horsepower.

slowyoda89

04-30-2003, 03:41 PM

I was also running a vpc at 15psi with no fuel system mods.
that isnt the smartest think to do,but i would atleast do a fuel pump

380cc injectors in the na-t swaps would be enough.raise the fuel pressure to them,and a fuel pump.380s will flow over 320 without flow problems.

Lexus afm,fuel pump,adn regulater 14psi.You will not run lean

Parad0x

05-04-2003, 01:09 AM

ive yet to understand why anyone thinks they can get away with a lex AFM + 440's. i ran it for maybe 2 weeks and my car felt faster, but it also ran damn hot.

its not worth the risk. if you're too cheap to upgrade injectors, buy another car

slowyoda89

05-04-2003, 05:33 PM

What turbo were you running when you were running hot?I dont think it is possible to run lean with a lexus,stock turbo,fuel pump,rising rate fpr.Vpc is the same thing with no ristriction what so ever,no lean nees here,and no fuel pump,and regulater before the new setup.15psi

paddlenbike

05-05-2003, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Parad0x
ive yet to understand why anyone thinks they can get away with a lex AFM + 440's. i ran it for maybe 2 weeks and my car felt faster, but it also ran damn hot.

its not worth the risk. if you're too cheap to upgrade injectors, buy another car

I am slowly starting to subscribe to the Lex/440/AFPR and AFC combined with dyno tuning would be ever-bit as safe as running the 550s. 440s flow way more fuel than I need, so upgrading to even larger injectors doesn't make much sense. If the Lex provides 25% more air capacity, 25% more fuel can be added via the 440s with an AFC. What's wrong with this approach? Educate me. :p

Bugwugger

05-05-2003, 11:38 AM

Ok but here is the question I have been looking for !! Will bigger injectors and a lexus AFM work for a NON TURBO? I am runing high compression and everything is ported and polished.

paddlenbike

05-05-2003, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Bugwugger
Ok but here is the question I have been looking for !! Will bigger injectors and a lexus AFM work for a NON TURBO? I am runing high compression and everything is ported and polished.

No. Even with the port & polish you won't flow enough air to need the 25% increase in flow (air & fuel).

rcdsupra

05-05-2003, 03:08 PM

I'll be getting my walbro pump in soon and will be just going with the 440's and LEX AFM, with a HKS AFR. I will get it dynoed at PHR in about a month when it all gets on there.

prsrcokr

05-07-2003, 09:39 AM

What about the case of running the Lex to combat FCO? As an example, I have hit FC once at ~10-11 psi (damn inaccurate TRD gauge) so I was wondering if I could use the Lex to run up to 12 psi. Anything above that and I would wnat to get more fuel there since I have not installed my walboro yet. This would also lean out the low rpms but I wonder how much? Any thoughts?

paddlenbike

05-07-2003, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by prsrcokr
What about the case of running the Lex to combat FCO? As an example, I have hit FC once at ~10-11 psi (damn inaccurate TRD gauge) so I was wondering if I could use the Lex to run up to 12 psi. Anything above that and I would wnat to get more fuel there since I have not installed my walboro yet. This would also lean out the low rpms but I wonder how much? Any thoughts?

Since no one else has answered, I will take a stab at it and someone can correct me if I'm wrong. First off, yes, the Lex AFM moves the FCO up. Your TRD guage is probably reading the correct boost levels--some cars can hit as high as 14 psi on a hot day with a stock turbo before hitting FCO while one with an upgraded turbo may hit FCO at less than 10 psi on a cold day.

As far as adding the Lex and nothing else to raise FCO, don't do it. My understanding is that the Lex is basically a way of flowing more air (roughly 25% more) without the ECU recognizing this air exists. Even at stock boost levels, you've added 25% more air with the same amount of fuel and thus you are leaning the a/f ratio. However, you *can* add the Lex without the 550 cc injectors and compensate for that 25% more air by richening up the mixture with an AFC. Dyno tuning is highly recommend though.

Make sure you understand the arguments portrayed in this thread regarding the necessity of the 550 cc injectors before you decide to try it. There is some level of risk involved.

slowyoda89

05-07-2003, 08:18 PM

Well,I think the best setup for a lexus afm setup would be with a fuel cut defencer.I would do a fuel pump just for reassurance.I mean i was running 15 psi with no restriction in the intake track.But a fuel pump will help you out.My friend also was running one of the hks afr's,(its like a little square box like the fuel cut defencer like 80 dollars)which made him run nice and rich 18psi with no fuel system.But still do a fuel pump.fcd,lexus,and a afr.My personal opinion is just get a vpc,but that setup i just said is more then enough,to make some 12 sec passes

prsrcokr

05-08-2003, 08:42 PM

I understand the concept of the TCCS being tricked but how much does the O2 come into play here. I would imagine it can't make extreme adjustments but how much can it change?

prsrcokr

05-13-2003, 03:53 PM

Anyone? How much can the TCCS modify the ratios? I was thinking before of asking Reg if he can do a Lex/440 program but I bet he won't want to. What about using the Lex with the stock fuel system and only to 11-12psi? Since my clutch won't hold anymore than this anyway.

flubyux2

06-14-2003, 01:35 PM

you know what would be a good idea??? using a hot-wire MAF like on a LT1 or LS1 V8... and you could run any size injector you want, including 440's.

here, ill show you... The other thread (http://supraforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127490)

adam pecush

07-05-2003, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by paddlenbike

some cars can hit as high as 14 psi on a hot day with a stock turbo before hitting FCO while one with an upgraded turbo may hit FCO at less than 10 psi on a cold day.

actually quite the opposite is true. on cold days, ambient air is denser therefore it contains more oxygen per cubic meter. since the afm only accounts for mass air flow this oxygen level is not taken into account(even with the temp correction of the ecu) and boost is allowed to increase due to the denser air which is now expanding inside the turbo and ic pipes. a friend of mine hit 18 psi before fco when it was -35 degrees celsius. close to zero, my car hits fco at about 15 psi...35 degrees, it hits at 11psi. so not only do you lose power due to hotter air entering the engine and a loss of ic efficency, you also cant boost as high. heat sucks.

adam

flubyux2

07-05-2003, 12:14 PM

Well, i hit fuel cut when its cold at 18 psi or when im on a bridge over a large body of water. When its warm, 18 psi doesnt fuel cut. (this is on my DSM w/ the stock AFM, might as well be a Supra w/ stock AFM)

adam pecush

07-05-2003, 01:06 PM

:scratch: hmm. i dont know what to say. cars could have different modes of compensation for temperature...or something like that.

flubyux2

07-05-2003, 01:38 PM

i think that denser air creates more vortecies than lighter, less dense air. thats why cold air makes FCO worse, in 2 ways: more vortecies per unit/air, and then the IAT compensation, and that will make the ECU see a higher Hz count than when its warm out. cold air is like MORE air.

btownboy

10-20-2003, 12:11 PM

I am throwing code 24, air intake sensor code. I need a new afm and I am not going to spend the money on another stock afm when I plan to upgrade soon. So can I use the lexus afm at boost levels around 10-12 and still be safe. I have an egt gauge, boost gauge, 3" turbo back, intake, and mbc. I will be adding fuel pump and afc soon with a dyno tune. So is it safe at 10-12 psi? Thanks

MADMKIV

10-20-2003, 06:55 PM

This is BS!!!! The 440 injectors will support ~400RWHP which outflows the stock turbo and would be a decent match to even a modified ct. Toyota tuned the car to run rich as hell and using the larger AFM with the bypass screw you can lean the mixture out and pick up some power safely. Tune on a dyno using a wideband and get the car tuned to about 350 or so RWHP. I do think a MKIV fuel pump might be neccesary but I don't remember as I forgot most of my MKIII knowledge. I used the Lexus afm on stock injectors and 10-12psi max, I'd do a WOT run thru 3rd gear and pull over and check the plugs to see if I ran lean or had detonation. It was crude but was effective and I had no problems associated doing this, my engine failed later to a bad oil pump which spun a bearing.

Originally posted by njsupramk3t
DO NOT USE LEXUS AFM WITHOUT 550 injectors. you will lean out your engine. youll will be then stuck with a dead motor.

-steve

MADMKIV

10-20-2003, 07:54 PM

Thank you....

Originally posted by slowyoda89
Im running over 100psi on my laser.Rising rate regulater,550cc

I have a chart here in front of me.440cc injectors under 100%duty cycle in a 6 cylinder will flow 458hp worth of fuel.
550cc 100% duty cycle 567 worth of fuel

so 440cc injectors with a fuel pump and regulater will flow saftly i would guess around 400 horsepower.

SuperDerek

10-23-2003, 12:15 AM

so could you guys gather a good setup moding the stock MKIII with 440 cc injector and Lexus AFM?

1) Fuel Regulation
2) Fuel Pump
3) AFC?
4) Sunglasses????

Thanks

jtamulis

10-23-2003, 01:32 AM

550cc injectors can be had now for $400 SHIPPED NEW.

There is NO good reason to do the lexus without the 440s
unless you just like playing with disaster. Just do the mods right
and enjoy your car for a long time, not cutting corners and having
a chance your car will go lean.

I've been in the game a long time, just take the free advice.

Jeff Tamulis
jtamulis@hotmail.com

MADMKIV

10-24-2003, 04:56 PM

Can someone answer why 500RWHP of injectors are needed for a 280~300RWHP setup on the stock turbo? I mean we all know that toyota programs their turbo cars extremely rich and with way more fuel then is needed I don't see why the Lexus AFM seems to be such a bad thing if it leans out an overly rich mixture while defeating FC as long as you don't overtax the stock fuel pump and don't run more then about 12psi of boost max. Over that I think it can be risky but with a moderate boost increase it's fine as long as your old fuel system and turbo is up to par.

Originally posted by jtamulis
550cc injectors can be had now for $400 SHIPPED NEW.

There is NO good reason to do the lexus without the 440s
unless you just like playing with disaster. Just do the mods right
and enjoy your car for a long time, not cutting corners and having
a chance your car will go lean.

I've been in the game a long time, just take the free advice.

Jeff Tamulis
jtamulis@hotmail.com

SuperDerek

10-25-2003, 06:26 PM

I think it's true that 550 cc injector isn't expensive at all, using it is actually cheaper in parts than keeping the 440 and add on fuel regulators and pump...
I think the best to do is use Emanage and tune your car accordly no matter you are uasing 440 or 550.. coz with tuning, you know if it's leaning or running too rich, you save gas in the long run, well worth it.. am I right?

AWIDESUPIE

11-13-2003, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by SuperDerek
I think it's true that 550 cc injector isn't expensive at all, using it is actually cheaper in parts than keeping the 440 and add on fuel regulators and pump...
I think the best to do is use Emanage and tune your car accordly no matter you are uasing 440 or 550.. coz with tuning, you know if it's leaning or running too rich, you save gas in the long run, well worth it.. am I right?

Even if you get 550s then it would still be reccomended to get a pump and AFPR etc supporting stuff. So, you could save money on injectors if it's worth it and if it reasonable for the power levels that you want to run at.

If have have the money/want to spend the money then you should get the 550s with supporting fuel/cooling mods.

I am a firm believer that the lexafm/440 is a good combo for certain boost & air/fuel pressure & power levels, but only with proper montoring and proper tuning.

You are absolutely right that proper tuning is worth everything. Porper tuning is ALWAYS essential, regardless of set-up.

slowyoda89

11-16-2003, 11:44 AM

440cc injectors are proving.Hey if you in any doubt,go get some 86-87 rx7 non turbo injectors (460cc).

Its always key to have a good setup,you just gotta know what your looking for.Personally a 440-460 injectors,lexus-ported stock one-fuel pump,and some kind of regulater.10-15psi would be plenty in my book.

<---- stock 440cc,vpc,stock ct26,walbro 255,12v mod,15-18psi whenever my boost controller feels like.lol

slowyoda89

11-16-2003, 11:45 AM

oh yeah, apex super afc,or some other piggy back will def be needed.

daniloreyes

11-22-2003, 02:39 PM

not a bad idea if installed with a walbro fuel pump!!!

AllanL

12-12-2003, 07:05 PM

Well I have modifyed the stock fuel presure reg
http://members.optusnet.com.au/supra80/carstuff/afpr/DSC00382.JPG
Fitted a bosch 040 motorsport fuel pump, drilled out the restrictor

Chucked the 1uz-fe afm on and put it on the dyno

http://members.optusnet.com.au/supra80/carstuff/DSC00386.JPG

WAY WAY WAY to rich! the stock ct-26 is useless above 14psi with intake temps after the intercooler hiting 75c (167f)

NOTE: i still have not fitted the custom screw to the 1uz-afm once i do i can tune the mid range and final setings of the fuel pressure to get a decent fuel curve (and still leans out on cruise to 14.7:1!)

still drives fine just like before when it was stock except the fuel cut is gone

so for a stock CT26, 440's are fine IMHO should make a heap more power once theres some more tuneablilty with the afm screw

bahraini_zupra

12-19-2003, 05:56 AM

can i use lexus afm at 10 psi only or 12 ???

paddlenbike

12-19-2003, 09:11 AM

AllanL--can you give some instructions on how to modify the stock regulator? I need an adjustable FPR that will go unnoticed by the smog czars.

malloynx

12-21-2003, 09:02 AM

yea i would love some directions too on the fuel regulator

89targaturbo

04-26-2006, 01:57 AM

Shred

06-21-2006, 01:23 AM

Old thread revival for you. Nobody answered his question.

Ok but here is the question I have been looking for !! Will bigger injectors and a lexus AFM work for a NON TURBO?
No. The 7MGE engine uses a vane airflow meter. That modifies a 5 volt refrence signal from the ECU that the ECU interpretes as a volume of air signal. The Lex and GTE meter is a also a volume airflow meter, but a frequency based signal, not voltage.

Toyota used the "rich" condition for several reasons. One is longetivity of the pistons and headgasket. Cast plus lean boost puts holes in pistons. You are giving up that margin of error. Several new Toyota engines( late 90's and up) are using metal headgaskets from the factory as tightening emssions don't allow for the real rich mixture anymore.

Bossman32

06-29-2006, 08:52 PM

lexus afm + 440cc inj. makes the motor run lean which creates a tremendous heat which can melt pistons it is a very bad idea

MKIIINA

06-30-2006, 10:43 AM

guys i really dont understand why this topic is still being discussed. i have done back to back dynos (just swapped out the afm) and guess what. the car ran extremely lean (14.x:1) it is not safe to run just the lex afm and 440s. period. get the 550s and do it right.

flubyux2

07-01-2006, 03:39 PM

supramad77

09-22-2006, 05:47 PM

badboysupra

05-10-2007, 02:35 AM

damn... I read and understand this whole thread for 30 mins.. very informative.

aite, peace.

Buttmunch

08-14-2007, 03:34 AM

Just got directed to this tread from uk supras forum. I have the lexus afm fitted with a afpr and walbro fuel pump. Also running "3 zorst and manual boost of 11psi. I have set the afpr at 35psi for now. I have 550's to fit but for some reason the car just runs very rich and has a very lumpy idle so i took them out again.
Will refit to see if they are faulty but i am another one who can't see why the lexus with the 440's should not be ok. I am not turning up the boost any higher and have raised the fuel pressure to compensate for more air.

The Lex AFM with 440's is ok IF you have a means of rasing static fuel pressure and a wideband O2 sensor to monitor it all. Look at people who have the lex 550 combo whats the first thing they do turn down the fuel pressure and then pull out a load of fuel with an afc. This to me say that 550's are in no way needed. If you increase the fuel pressure on the 440's they will supply more than enough fuel for 400hp just ask John Lunsford. Or visit his website www.jblmk3.com

supramad77

08-14-2007, 11:23 AM

The Lex AFM with 440's is ok IF you have a means of rasing static fuel pressure and a wideband O2 sensor to monitor it all. Look at people who have the lex 550 combo whats the first thing they do turn down the fuel pressure and then pull out a load of fuel with an afc. This to me say that 550's are in no way needed. If you increase the fuel pressure on the 440's they will supply more than enough fuel for 400hp just ask John Lunsford. Or visit his website www.jblmk3.com

My HG failed so i have had the engine rebuilt with a titan 2.0mm hg and arps. also had my 550's fitted with my safcii and avc-r. Car feels pretty quick now. Just waiting for the suprastick to arrive and semi auto here i come.

MKIIINA

08-14-2007, 11:35 AM

how bout getting an AFPR and a fuel pump to raise the base fuel pressure to 43psi so you can get a true 440cc/min @ 43psi static. most injectors arent rated at 38psi, but 43. so technically, we arent getting the full potential of our injectors. plus, the stock fuel pump cant really hang w/ the additional fuel pressure required by engines running higher-than-stock boost levels.

i ran the Lex+550's+walbro255 and the car ran pig rich... like 10:1's. i stll had the J-tube in place, so im sure that had something to do with it. the car would shoot flames any time i shifted under boost. so a lex with 550's is more than likely tomake your car too rich and still need a tune. one way or another, everyone would be benefitted by a tune.

bumping the FP is really a bandaid on the problem. your going to be trusting old injectors to handle more fuel. i agree that the it may be possible but i know people will be coming in and looking at this thread and going "oh i can swap an afm in quick!" without doing the required tuning to get it in the safe range (safc/wb02).

true 440s should = about 400rwhp but thats running the injectors out to what i consider an unsafe duty cycle level. saturation needs to be considered too.

i personally ran the lex/550s combo for over a year at 18psi with an sp61gt without issue. its not a hard thing to do really to swap out injectors and do it safely.

OvenRude

08-14-2007, 11:38 AM

More air without fuel to go with it = lean = bad.

ma70sleeper

08-24-2007, 07:47 PM

wat would happen wit da afm and 6.8 pounds????

foofers

10-18-2007, 09:26 AM

I know the Lex afm and 550s raise fuel cut and give room for upgrades - bigger turbo, higher boost (with other supporting mods)...I was just curious as to the actual power gains from just the lex afm and 550s alone.

crazysupra2JZ

10-19-2007, 10:04 AM

badboysupra

10-19-2007, 10:56 AM

LEX AFM+ stock 440's=

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/crazysupra7mgte/100_0273-1.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/crazysupra7mgte/100_0275-1.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/crazysupra7mgte/th_whenithappened.jpg (http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/crazysupra7mgte/?action=view&current=whenithappened.flv)

how in the hell that shit happened? what mods and how much boost are you pushing? also, it looks like you were running on stock/composite HG.

aite, peace.

crazysupra2JZ

10-19-2007, 11:49 AM

stock motor, turbo, fuel system. just leaned out out. at the time i didn't have an AFC to tune it with. so i had no idea what my AFR was. i actually forgot to take out the LEX AFM after testing it to see if it worked. when i got back home i realized that's what caused all this. car was running so perfect that day too, built boost quick and had great throttle response.

finalturismo

03-30-2009, 09:58 AM

every car is different, high boost with stock 440s = could cause fuel injector failure
due to fuel injectors over heating, following an extream lean run, following engine damage.

BUT AS long as you have a rich mixture you are good to go, disconnect the o2 sensor would be a good idea. do to unstable ecu reads of sensors, causing a lean run which is a high rate problem on the 7ms. Keep in mind that running a rich mix is bad on spark plugs. turbo engines need a good air to fuel ratio to keep performance and stability. If you can find a cheap and reliable way to do it , thats fine. Ignore others negativity and have fun and learn.

MAIN THING KEEP ENGINE RUNNING WITH A GOOD AIR FUEL RATIO OR RICH AT LEAST AND YOUR SAFE IN BOOST. I WOULDnt PASS UP 14 PSI ON A STOCK CT 26 THO, ITS A SMALLER TURBO AND HAS TO PUSH IT SELF MORE TO SUSTAIN POWER. REMEBER AT 14+ PSI YOU ARE MAKING THAT TURBO PUSH AT A HIGHER RPM UNDER MORE PRESSURE, WHICH MEANS MORE PRESSURE ON THE BARING , WHICH MEANS LOWER TURBO LIFE.