6mge engine swap

View Poll Results: what do I need to do to convert my mkII to fit a 6mge

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Thread: 6mge engine swap

  1. #1
    mxkjk2
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    6mge engine swap

    I am thinking of dropping a 6mge engine in my mkII, but I dont know if all the vacuum lines are the same, or if the injectors from my 5mge are the same size, or if my stock computer will comply with this engine. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

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  3. #2
    Retired Super-Mod quick's Avatar
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    It's a drop-in situation.

    You replace the entire engine, including injectors.

    Why is this a poll?

  4. #3
    mxkjk2
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    6mge

    I dont know why it is a poll, this is my first time using this sight and I thought that was what your supposed to do.

  5. #4
    Retired Super-Mod quick's Avatar
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    I see.

    1) When you drop the whole engine in injectors and vacuum lines aren't an issue from what I've heard.

    2) It's best to get a 6M ECU if you can, because the 5M-GE ECU will show a check engine light when you install the 6M.

    Talk to SilverMk2 on this board -- he has a 6M in his MkII.

    Good luck.

  6. #5
    SloppyGoat
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    I too have the 6MGE in mine. I've heard that the check engine light isn't an issue in every case. Mine's coming on, but for a different reason, I think. I seem to have some wiring harness problems, which will be redone soon. If it continues, I've found a few places that will sell a 6M ECU for $50 bucks. Don't be fooled into paying $300+ or anything. They are available cheaper.
    But yeah, it's a straight drop in replacement. You will have to use the oil pan from your 5M, though.

  7. #6
    2JZ Mk2 SilverMk2's Avatar
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    Let's see, to install a 6m into a MkII is a little different in what needs to be done for the different years. My swap was 6m into an '85. Things that need to be done...

    1.) swap existing oil pan and oil pump over to the 6M (center drop 6m vs. front drop 5m)

    2.) swap AC bracket (different)

    3.) swap engine mounts (different)

    4.) install flywheel (if yours is a 5spd, most 6m's have flexplates)

    5.) install throttle cable bracket

    6.) install the 5m distributor (6m unit had a different PN# on the side that my old one. 82 MKIIs definetly needs to use the old distributor)

    7.) install old wiring harness (usually the harness is cut and would be different even if it wasn't)

    8.) install BVSV (blue valve with 2 vacuum hose coming off it) on the T-stat housing. My 6m has a plug there. Probably would be easier to use the old housing, as I'd imagine that plug might be a bear to get out.

    9.) intake manifold. Here is where it gets complicated. If you NEED an EGR valve for emissions (typically the visual/functional), you'll need to reuse your factory upper intake/EGR valve/EGR tube/EGR cooler on the back of the head. 6Ms (JDM cars in general) don't have EGR valves. Now if you have a 82-83 and some '84s, you'll also need to install the lower intake manifold to mate to the old upper intake. 6m intake manifolds have the D-shaped runners shared with the 85-86 and some 84 MkII. Earlier cars have the round runnered intakes. No matter what you should install the old throttle body. The 6m throttle body has a little different linkage and some of the vacuum ports are MIA.

    10.) accesories. typically some or all of the accesories like the AC pump, alternator, and/or PS pump are typically missing.

    note the injectors are the same

    Now on to recommendations. Depending on what you have planned for your MkII, kind determine how you prep the engine. As sort of a disclaimer, many folks have had problems just thowing the engine in there as recieved. Typically in a year or 2 folks have had oil burning problems with 6m's. This is probably due to the fact these engine have been sitting around for many years. In increasing order of cost and difficultly these are what I'd recommend.

    1. replace wear items. Typically things like the water pump, timing belt, spark plugs, plug wires, distrubtor cap and rotor, oil filter, new fluids, clutch, etc. This is generally required to meet the warranty on the engine anyhow.

    2. buy a decent gasket kit and go through the motor and regasket it. The big ones to get changed are all the front and rear seals and also the valve stem seals. There'll never be an easier time to change these seals than when the motor is out of the car on a stand. Definetly stick with decent gasket sets, Toyota and Felpro would be my rec's. I always hear horror stories on some of those Made in <insert 3rd world country here> specials.

    3. rebuild the motor, if you've got the cash and desire. Internally the 6m should be in really good shape and shouldn't need much machine work. The minimum on this one would be to dissassemble the motor, clean and inspect everything, do a light honing on the cylinders (remove the glaze), and install new rings and reinstall all the other parts. This would get you a engine that should run like new at the minimal cost. From here in addition you can do extra performance or relability mods. Things like balancing, valve grinds, new bearings, etc.

    I'd definetly recommend doing 1 and 2. Do 3 if you have the money and you feel its worth it. In the end the 6m is a nice upgrade when you want something simple to do, looks like stock, and/or want to stick with a NA motor (or more ommph w/ a turbo conversion). As mentioned some folks have a problem above ~80mph with the check engine light coming on. The solution is either buying a 6m ECU, playing with the AFM, installing 210cc injectors, praying (if you're religous) or cross you fingers (if you're not). Or you can just ignore it or drive slower . BTW no check engine light with mine with the 210CC injectors.

    Aaron I
    1985 Super Silver Supra 2JZGTE
    2006 Machine Silver Corvette Z06

  8. #7
    toyodasupra1985
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    Thanks for the Info Aaron...I Hope to be dropping a 6M Into my '85 soon for some extra oompphh......Just wondering...how long did it take you to do the swap? and about how much did you invest into it? Any other places where i can find Info And stuff on this swap? Where can i find the 6M ECU for cheap? or a set of 210CC Injectors for cheap? TIA any info is very appreciated!

    Kevin W
    '85 SDR P-type, automatic......

  9. #8
    2JZ Mk2 SilverMk2's Avatar
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    In my case it took me a long time to do mine. It was almost exactly 4 months for me from engine out to engine in. 75% (at least) of that was me waiting around for some part to show up so I could continue. It took me about a week and a half to assemble the motor mostly working 2-4 hours a night after work. I took me 1 12 hour day to install the engine. Investment for me was a lot. I've never added it up but it's probably pushing 6-7k for everything. That would be for the engine, the machine work, the replacement parts, and the performance parts. A rough breakdown for the big parts for me is;

    $550 6M engine
    $1500 machine work
    $3000ish for all the parts from 'yota
    $750 for the Gude cams
    $400 flywheel

    I wouldn't let these #'s discourage you, this is basically for a race ready engine. You can save quite a bit of money by using aftermarket parts and not having every nut and bolt balanced. One nice thing about doing a 6m is that you can work on fixing up 90% of the motor while you still have the Supra to drive around. Doing it this way you could probably install the 6m in a long weekend if you hustle. I don't know of great website documenting the 6m swap step by step. Try Phil Duplers site here;

    http://home.swbell.net/pdupler/silver.htm

    There are some pics on there. You can also ask the MkII list any questions also.

    As far as the 210cc injector, you can get them from 85-87 4AGE engines (Corolla/MR2) (blue plug injectors). Best cheap bet is to get them from a U-pull it type yard. They are really easy to remove on those engines (wish that was true on the MkII). I think I've heard of some folks buying them at Autozone for like $30 each. If you get used injectors you might want to send them to a place like RC engineering for cleaning. Mine were like 200cc injectors beforehand. I would recommend the 210 injectors for those with mods on the 6m. I think I would try the AFM mod for stocker engine. The 210cc injectors will definetly hurt gas mileage and emission, if that is a consideration for ya. As far as the $50 ECU I'd like to know also where to get it. I've heard that the 6m ecu's have a speed limiter built in.

    Aaron I

  10. #9
    SloppyGoat
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    I just entered it in a global parts search engine, and had 2 replies at that price, and one for $60. I'll see if I can find the request engine again. It's been awhile. I kept the quotes, but I'm sorry...I'm not giving them away! I don't want anyone stealing my hard researched bargain!
    Do you have to do anything special to use the 210cc injectors? Or will they just drop in and work with the stock setup?

    A few things sound different on that model. Mine's an '86, and the harness was a direct fit. Nothing was changed there. Also, I don't have the vacuum sensor on the thermo....just two connector/wire type sensors.
    Last edited by SloppyGoat; 04-22-2002 at 03:29 PM.

  11. #10
    2JZ Mk2 SilverMk2's Avatar
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    Assuming you get the 210cc injector from those years. They should plug right in, at least mine did. As far as the BVSV on the side of the thermostat housing, you should have one. You sure you don't have any vacuum lines lying lose somewhere? That's part of the charcol canister system. The 5M harness should fit directly onto the 6m sensors. But the 6m harness if it isn't cut shouldn't be useable. The computer and everything is on the opposite side of the car over there, so wirelength would be an issue.

  12. #11
    MRael
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    I found this info comparing the 5M-GE to the 6M-GE:

    http://www.toysport.com/Technical%20...tech_notes.htm

    In fact I wonder if it might not be more in your interest to just increase the displacement of the 5M.. and add a suitable crank, compression ratio and cam while you are at it. As the owner of a 85' I 'feel your pain' as far as wanting to bump the power up, but I'm starting to think having a fresh, bored out (or stroked?) 5M with a more racey compression and cam is the way to go. I'm not knocking engine/harness/etc.etc. swaps.. but if its just a power increase you want, there are other ways to go about it.
    Read that web link and tell me what you think.

  13. #12
    Retired Super-Mod quick's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MRael
    I found this info comparing the 5M-GE to the 6M-GE:

    http://www.toysport.com/Technical%20...tech_notes.htm

    In fact I wonder if it might not be more in your interest to just increase the displacement of the 5M.. and add a suitable crank, compression ratio and cam while you are at it. As the owner of a 85' I 'feel your pain' as far as wanting to bump the power up, but I'm starting to think having a fresh, bored out (or stroked?) 5M with a more racey compression and cam is the way to go. I'm not knocking engine/harness/etc.etc. swaps.. but if its just a power increase you want, there are other ways to go about it.
    Read that web link and tell me what you think.
    ...but that's what the 6M-GE does... ? why get someone to create a 6M when you can just buy one (for probably cheaper)?

    Personally, I'd turbo the 5M-GE before installing a 6M-GE. Approx. $1500 and you have a substantial increase in power.

  14. #13
    MRael
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    quick: I'm assuming the 6M used in the swap is going to be used and in indeterminate condition, while if you build up an existing 5M you are at least gaining new and fresh parts. Also, there is a hell of a lot less to worry about in terms of compatible electronics and plumbing like in a full 5M/6M swap. I would rather have a 5M with increased displacement and new parts than a 6M of uncertain backround, and that also requires substantial more work to get converted. The link I gave says that the 6M swap is cost effective too, so it depends on how good the used 6M a person can find is I suppose.

    Turbo'd 5M for $1500? Do you have a link?
    The link I gave mentions adding a turbo to the 5M and explains why it is even better than going with the 7M(!)
    Last edited by MRael; 04-21-2002 at 11:25 PM.

  15. #14
    2JZ Mk2 SilverMk2's Avatar
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    It is cheaper to just buy a 6M. You just don't throw a 6/7m crank in a 5m block and expect everything to work. You need the crank and the rods from a 7m. The crank pulley and timing cog from a 5m need to have the bores reinlarged and the key ways recut. The crank case needs some material cut out around the oil pump boss. Then probably with the mismatched crank and block you'll need to get the crank ground to get the bearing clearances right on. The 6m swap is about as easy and engine swap as they come. If you can remove and install a 5m, you can do a 6m just as easy. You can reuse any of your old sensors if you want, and it's probably a good idea to do that anyhow. The only thing I used for my 6m was the basic long block (block and head assembly) everything else is the old 5m stuff.

    I would definetly reccomend the turbo route if emissions isn't a concern. The bang for the buck is much better. Probably in a couple of years I'll install a 7m. I don't really feel that this engine is going to be powerful enough for what I want from the car. I orginally was going that route but I had some bad luck finding a donor.

  16. #15
    MRael
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    SilverMk2: do you have specific suggestions about which turbo install route is best for the Mk2? I'm aware of companies that make aftermarket turbos, but none (so far) that offer a specific kit for the Mk2 Supra. The rabidchimp.com website is supposedly going to have a turbo kit at some point, but not yet.

    p.s. SilverMk2: what would be your advice around adding a hotter cam to a 5M?- do you think it *requires* increased compression to work best? Right now the mods to my 5M are HKS intake, headers, and lightweight flywheel (also some EGR and mass air sensor mods.) I have an 85'. Like SloppyGoat I am milling around for routes into the 210Hp-250Hp range.
    Thanks!

  17. #16
    SloppyGoat
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    Originally posted by SilverMk2
    Assuming you get the 210cc injector from those years. They should plug right in, at least mine did. As far as the BVSV on the side of the thermostat housing, you should have one. You sure you don't have any vacuum lines lying lose somewhere? That's part of the charcol canister system. The 5M harness should fit directly onto the 6m sensors. But the 6m harness if it isn't cut shouldn't be useable. The computer and everything is on the opposite side of the car over there, so wirelength would be an issue.
    What would have 210 injectors? I mean, what kind of junker do I look for to find some?

    Nope, nothing on the thermo housing. There is a two vacuum line something or other on the PS pump though. It looks like that might've gone to the canister at one time, but it's broken. I don't think it's needed, since there really is no emissions on the car anymore. The idiots didn't put the 6M throttle body on it, but I have it. I'm going to change that out and just do away with any unnecessary vacuum crap. Hey, I live in Ala-freaking-bama! We don't need no stinking emissions!
    Last edited by SloppyGoat; 04-22-2002 at 03:38 PM.

  18. #17
    2JZ Mk2 SilverMk2's Avatar
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    Originally posted by SloppyGoat


    What would have 210 injectors? I mean, what kind of junker do I look for to find some?

    85-87 4AGE engines. They come in Toyota Corolla GTS's and MR2's. The look just like the MkII injectors except they have a blue plug vs the beige tanish plug of the MkII injector, Plug'n'Play.

  19. #18
    2JZ Mk2 SilverMk2's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MRael
    SilverMk2: do you have specific suggestions about which turbo install route is best for the Mk2? I'm aware of companies that make aftermarket turbos, but none (so far) that offer a specific kit for the Mk2 Supra. The rabidchimp.com website is supposedly going to have a turbo kit at some point, but not yet.

    p.s. SilverMk2: what would be your advice around adding a hotter cam to a 5M?- do you think it *requires* increased compression to work best? Right now the mods to my 5M are HKS intake, headers, and lightweight flywheel (also some EGR and mass air sensor mods.) I have an 85'. Like SloppyGoat I am milling around for routes into the 210Hp-250Hp range.
    Thanks!
    Let's see. Any turbo manifold for a MKIII should fit onto the 5m head, including the factory one. The factory cast manifold and CT26 turbo off the MKIII fit right onto the 5M, and is probably the cheapest and best bang for the buck. The only thing you need to do to the factory MKIII manifold is to grind a little material off around the PS pump bracket. Assuming those are the HP goal that you want the factory MKIII turbo setup should get you there. In the 6-8 psi range I've heard rwhp #'s from 200 to 230+. You'll need to do some fitting and such for the plumbing. All of which is doable. The best site for a writeup is;

    http://www.geocities.com/aarongarney/

    Aaron Garney is also the guy with the rabidchimp site. If more hp is your goal I'd really recommend going with the 7mGTE route. The electronics are much better on the 7M. It's pretty common to see people push 350+ rwhp on 7M motor. It'll cost you much more initially, but you'll probably save it in the long run

    As far as the cams go. I really don't have a ton of miles on the engine yet. But the Gude cams I have the engine idles kind of rough. It's still a little early to blast them seeing as it isn't completely in tune. If you're going to go turbo I'd save the money and use the stock cams. Generally aftermarket NA cams don't work that well on turbo motors. Gude does do custom grinds, but that's kind of a high end thing. And if you're going turbo I wouldn't increase the compression. 8.5:1 seems to be a good and popular compression ratio on turbo. People have used the factory 9.2:1 and it seems to work fine so long as you run the proper amount of fuel. On NA increased compression ratio is generally good assuming you don't go to high and experience pinging and detanation. Then you have to retard the timing and go backwards.

    BTW nice little photo by your username
    Last edited by SilverMk2; 04-22-2002 at 09:18 PM.

  20. #19
    Retired Super-Mod quick's Avatar
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    Originally posted by MRael
    quick: I'm assuming the 6M used in the swap is going to be used and in indeterminate condition, while if you build up an existing 5M you are at least gaining new and fresh parts. Also, there is a hell of a lot less to worry about in terms of compatible electronics and plumbing like in a full 5M/6M swap. I would rather have a 5M with increased displacement and new parts than a 6M of uncertain backround, and that also requires substantial more work to get converted. The link I gave says that the 6M swap is cost effective too, so it depends on how good the used 6M a person can find is I suppose.

    Turbo'd 5M for $1500? Do you have a link?
    The link I gave mentions adding a turbo to the 5M and explains why it is even better than going with the 7M(!)
    http://geocities.com/aarongarney/5mgte.html

    ...you need to rebuild the 6M before installing it or you're asking for trouble.

  21. #20
    SupraForums Member Norbie's Avatar
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    Originally posted by quick
    ...you need to rebuild the 6M before installing it or you're asking for trouble.
    I've been thrashing my 6M for over 2 years without a rebuild, and it's still going strong. Sure it uses some oil and blows a bit of smoke out the tailpipe, but big deal.... you'd have to use a hell of a lot of oil to equal the cost of a rebuild!

  22. #21
    SupraForums Member NavyCuda's Avatar
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    Hey Sliver!

    Your car is pretty phat, nice job! I would mind some more info on that gauge setup you have, as I'm dropping a 22RTE-C into my Celica.

  23. #22
    Retired Super-Mod quick's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Norbie

    I've been thrashing my 6M for over 2 years without a rebuild, and it's still going strong. Sure it uses some oil and blows a bit of smoke out the tailpipe, but big deal.... you'd have to use a hell of a lot of oil to equal the cost of a rebuild!
    I think you're the exception to the rule, Norbie. I've heard of other people with more significant problems than your oil burning.

    The smart bet is to at least 'freshen' the 6M-GE.

    You're in OZ, right? Didn't they actually ship cars with 6M-GEs in them there? Perhaps yours wasn't sitting as long as many that come here to the states.

  24. #23
    SupraForums Member Norbie's Avatar
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    No, the 6M-GE was never released here in Australia... we have to get used Japanese imports, same as you guys.

    Maybe I was lucky... but it could be more than that. In my experience, DOHC M engines are quite sensitive to oil starvation. Let it get low on oil, and oil surge will happen very easily. Serious valvetrain damage is the result.

  25. #24
    Twin-Turbos 2X the Proble Kingsoup's Avatar
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    The 6MGE we put in my old 85, all we did was change the oil and the plugs. (other then then normal swap stuff) its been running like a new motor now for 6 months and 20,000+kms. It burns 0 oil and pulls very strong. Got it for 650$ canadian, just a straight swap no, injectors no nothing. 1k conversion total can, 200hp car.

    zoom zoom

    -------------------------------
    88 Supra Turbo

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