Water/Meth 50/50 is so sick!

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Thread: Water/Meth 50/50 is so sick!

  1. #176
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    I'm another very, very happy user of Ben's customised Snow Performance Stage 3 kit I use it in my daily driven 2JZ-swapped Soarer (Lexus SC), spraying about 55:45 meth:water, in addition to 93AKI pump fuel. My peak numbers were 640rwhp/570lb-ft SAE at 25psi boost on an unopened motor, backed off to 600rwhp/540lb-ft for maximum safety.

    Although I have E85 about 30 minutes drive from home (assuming minimal traffic ...), it is inconvenient to get to and the last thing I want to be doing when I get home. I have ready access to a supplier of pure methanol and distilled water is cheaply available, even in the local supermarket

    WMI is just as amazing as Ben has made it out to be In a nutshell, it has :-
    a) (quite cheaply!) allowed me to use much higher boost and ignition timing advance than 93AKI pump fuel alone, and
    b) more importantly, to allow this extra performance to be repeated even in high ambient temperature.

    Although a good FMIC setup also drops IATs, it cannot possibly do so in high ambient temperatures, and nowhere near as much or as rapidly. On the road, in my daily driven application, I have seen a 50% drop in IATs from a heatsoaked standing start in traffic within three SECONDS - travelling at relatively low speed.

    On the dyno, it is just spectacular. I drove 80 miles to and from work, straight to the dyno, and without any cool down time or special preparation, ran my street boost (20psi) peak power numbers straight off the bat. After 2 hours of flogging at high boost, the engine bay was very hot, but the inlet manifold was almost ice cold, with logged IATs reflecting this.

    A repeat 20psi run at the end of the dyno session - again with NO cool-down time after NUMEROUS 25psi runs - yielded *exactly* the same power figure as the first time. That is the beauty of WMI - it allows the same result to be repeated run after run after run.

    In terms of raw timing numbers, we were able to advance timing by over 6 degrees at peak torque compared to regular pump fuel without a hint of knock. For safety's sake, I backed this right down to +3deg, but my tuner, who is very experienced with E85, has stated that my timing numbers are at LEAST on par with E85. It also allows me to keep my fuel system very simple - basically stock.

    As far as peak power goes, I can only compare numbers pre- and post-WMI at the 20psi level. I gained just under 30rwhp, but as above, it was a consistent gain regardless of ambient conditions. WMI also allowed me to maintain a gain of 20hp/lb of boost, run after run, WITHOUT leaning on the motor unduly. With aggressive tuning, we saw 30hp/lb of boost gains!

    The only "downside" is having to refill the reservoir and in my case, mix my own brew of water and methanol, but this takes very little time or effort and I top up weekly.

    The price is the kicker. Race fuel costs upwards of $6/L (~$24/gallon) here. My own mix of water:meth costs just on $1.50/L (~$6/gallon)! My controller is set up to spray early and in high volumes, but my 2.5 gallon reservoir would last about a month with normal driving, and obviously much less with spirited driving

    Finally, for a daily driven car, fuel economy is actually important. WMI allows you to run leaner than one otherwise would if you so desire; all my reading suggests you can tune for mid-12s:1 AF. I actually ran like this initially on a street tune, and gained 20% fuel economy without any knock!

    Ben's customised kit is of very high quality and about as close to plug and play as possible. His before- and after-sales support is peerless. I unreservedly recommend purchasing kits from him. Thanks a lot, mate
    Last edited by shombre; 05-12-2012 at 10:08 PM.

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  3. #177
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    Been using it for years and love it. Great alternative to E85 if you cant get it local which I cannot.
    Glad you are enjoying the new hp.
    4 digits on pump&meth is not impossible (low boost)
    Real hp is measured at the wheels.

  4. #178
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    Thank you very much, Hukhuk! I read a lot of negative things about WMI, but I think that if one's componentry is up to scratch, and requisite care is taken to watch mixture levels, maintain a reasonably consistent purity of mix and inspect nozzles periodically, then it's a no-brainer for people like you and me. If I do ever go stroker/built shortblock, I'll be turning up the boost without hesitation in the knowledge that I am no longer knock limited

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  6. #179
    SupraForums Member Madhav's Avatar
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    How much timing are people running here?

    I had to twist my tuners arm to advance it over 11, he said if the kit fails the engine could go bang. Nevertheless he eventually went to 15 degrees and it allowed him to turn the boost up to 24psi and make 10% more power over 21psi without the w/m injection.

    I spoke to another tuner and he said he 15 is the minimum he runs on pump, and with E85/race gas he goes much higher.... I thought even the stock ECU goes into the early 20's?

    Just trying to get some perspective...
    Last edited by Madhav; 12-12-2012 at 05:22 AM.
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    Nissan Cefiro + 2JZGTE.
    Holset HX35 single turbo + E85, RWD, manual, 3000lbs = fun

  7. #180
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    How much timing where? Base? Peak torque? Redline? Without being a smartass, the answer to this question, as Errol @ TPS I think memorably put it, is "just enough" ... for your individual motor.

  8. #181
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    bringing the old thread back up.... just picked up a brand new Snow Performance Stage 3 kit for a Supra...not sure what exactly is different between a normal stage 3 kit and the supra kit, but i was looking for some ideas where to mount everything! Thanks!
    93 Supra TT
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  9. #182
    SupraForums Member JoeSupra's Avatar
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    This was my old setup. I mounted the controller on the steering column. I put the nozzles right before my throttle body. Dual tanks were mounted on the rear plastics right by the hatch latch. Pump was mounted where the spare tire was located. Dont have pics of everything but this is all I got.

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  10. #183

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    Since this thread has been revived I have a question. I bought a methanol kit a while back and finally decided to throw it on. I love how Ben installed it on Grants car, but I don't believe he's in town anymore from what I've heard. So who would be the go to guy for an install here locally?
    97 Deep Jewel Green tt 6spd (daily)
    94 white single turbo 6spd (sold)
    95 white n/a 5spd supra (sold)
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    1990 th1 blue 4 door r32 skyline (grocery getter)

  11. #184
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    I had SQ Creations install mine on my 1JZ and couldn't be happier. He also installed quite a few other goodies (cams, injectors, rail). He was very thorough with his work. Look him up, he's in Rio Rancho.

  12. #185
    Super Moderator Wreckless's Avatar
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    Eric SQ does great work! Alex @ NM Imports has done a a few very nice meth systems as well. You can always come see me at my new digs, too. We're lucky to have so much expertise in the ABQ area, really.
    Jeff
    "I spent a lot of money on booze, chicks and fast cars. The rest I just squandered." -- George Best
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  13. #186
    SupraForums Member suprahero's Avatar
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    Another resurection, sorry.

    I had my nozzle installed about 18" from my throttle body on a 1.5jz. I had custom 3" IC pipes made and the guy that made them installed my nozzle in my throttle body. Shortly thereafter, I end up with engine failure on the dyno. I've never had problems before. Is this just a coincidence or is that too close to the intake to atomize correctly? I'm going to rebuild my engine, and then install my nozzle back where I had it before. I'm just curious as to your opinion on the correct placement of the nozzle. Thanks, Jay
    1.5jz 640 RWHP, 606RWTQ

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  15. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by suprahero View Post
    Another resurection, sorry.

    I had my nozzle installed about 18" from my throttle body on a 1.5jz. I had custom 3" IC pipes made and the guy that made them installed my nozzle in my throttle body. Shortly thereafter, I end up with engine failure on the dyno. I've never had problems before. Is this just a coincidence or is that too close to the intake to atomize correctly? I'm going to rebuild my engine, and then install my nozzle back where I had it before. I'm just curious as to your opinion on the correct placement of the nozzle. Thanks, Jay
    What exactly happened to the motor? Spun bearing/bent rod? Or damaged piston from detonation? Any idea on the AFR during the dyno pull to see if it went lean from the meth not working?
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  16. #189
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    installing my stage 1 on/off based on boost water/meth injection and excited reading this thread! then the above about the injector placement got me worried. Sorry to hear abouy your results suprahero! My current bracket puts my injectors at about 3-4" from the first valve in the manifold. Is that too short?
    93 Alpine Silver TT Auto BPU: HKS Super Dragger, Random Tech hi flow cat, IK22 .032", K&N filter, Synapse DV diverter valve, MVP bcc, ebv spring mod x2 @ 13 psi, wg spring mod x3, innovate SCG-1 ~17 psi, emanage blue

    Cooling: AIS W/M injection 12GPH, SM auto trans cooler external filter, CSF rad

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  17. #190
    SupraForums Member suprahero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by @pkop2jz View Post
    What exactly happened to the motor? Spun bearing/bent rod? Or damaged piston from detonation? Any idea on the AFR during the dyno pull to see if it went lean from the meth not working?
    Yes, another resurrection. I'm just now starting to put everything back together. The failure was broke pistons, but the placement couldn't have helped or saved anything. Once I got back home and looked at the map, the so called expert tuner had 27 degrees of timing in my car at wot at 7000 rpm's. I've never ran more than 17 degrees of timing before. I'm sure that was the culprit. Human error.
    I'm still going to move the nozzle back about 18" from the throttle body when I put it back together.

  18. #191
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    sorry to hear that bad tuning blew up your engine... In terms of nozzle position, I have it before the 90 degree bend to the throttle body. It has worked great so far. In my mind, if pump is stuck open for some reason, I would have time to turn off the car while the excess liquid would fall to the bottom of the piping rather than accumulate in the manifold.

  19. #192
    SupraForums Member boost4days's Avatar
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    I went with the newest version of the aem water/meth kit...im happy with it and can definatly feel a big difference.havent yet had it tuned on the kit and should be tuned soon as my r154 swap is complete
    1993 NA supra.... gte and single 67..r154 soon

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  20. #193
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    I have my nozzle on the TB... never had a problem.
    Eric W
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  21. #194
    SupraForums Member suprahero's Avatar
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    That's what I was trying to say in my earlier post. I don't think the placement of the nozzle hurt my motor. I think the excessive timing did. I'm still going to install the nozzle a little away from the tb this time around though.

  22. #195
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    What nozzle are you using? Is it the old school ones like m5/m10/m15 or the new AEM style ones? I had the old school ones that don't mist that well and only do about 150 PSI at the pump. Granted, I never surpassed 26 PSI leaving 124 PSI of injection strength. I have a AEM kit but never saw the need to install it as after trying E85, I don't think I'll ever use anything else!

  23. #196
    SupraForums Member MRN20's Avatar
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    Anyone still using the alky controls?
    Supra...

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