supra tt brakes > other brakes?

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Thread: supra tt brakes > other brakes?

  1. #1
    SupraForums Member sleeknsilver's Avatar
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    supra tt brakes > other brakes?

    hi guys,

    how much better are supra tt brakes vs. non turbo brakes?

    also i've read from the reviews, the stock supra tt brakes are on par with a lot of other big braking system? if not better?

    i know autozone sells "rebuilt" stock calipers, do you think they would perform pretty similar to the used stock tt braking?

    just curious if those rebuilt stock tt calipers held up to similar/same braking performance as used tt supra calipers...?

    because the rebuilt calipers are $100 each while factory new they are going for over $200?
    Last edited by sleeknsilver; 02-01-2010 at 12:20 PM.
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  3. #2
    Moderator Wreckless's Avatar
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    I've had hit and miss luck with trying to get refurb OEM Supra parts through big parts chains like Autozone. I tried to get calipers through Autozone and the calipers looked like LS400 calipers, not the Supra units.

    The stock TT brakes are a vast improvement over the NA brakes. With good pads, fluid, and SS lines both systems will work fairly well for a couple of stops, but the TT brakes last a lot longer before fading and have much better 'bite' and pedal feel in my experience. Very much worth upgrading to TT calipers.

    Honestly, I would recommend hunting down a set of used OEM TT calipers here on the forums, sourcing new rotors and pads, and rebuilding/refinishing the calipers yourself. It's not hard at all.
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  4. #3
    SupraForums Member 94JZA80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleeknsilver View Post
    also i've read from the reviews, the stock supra tt brakes are on par with a lot of other big braking system? if not better?
    yes and no...first of all, while i've heard of OEM TT brakes performing as well as many BBK's on the street only, i've never really heard of OEM TT brakes OUTperforming any BBK's...i suppose i could be wrong about that though. regardless, i stress "on the street only" b/c that's where the OEM TT brakes will prove themselves to be as worhty as any BBK - during short spurts of hard, but intermittent, braking, where they have ample time to cool off before the next spurt of hard braking. and rightfully so, for Supra BBK's are not designed to stop harder and faster than the OEM brakes - they are designed to resist brake fade much longer than the OEM brakes are. take it to the track/road course on the OEM brakes, and if you're a competent driver, your brakes will last you a few laps before fade sets in...if you're an excellent driver - which i don't pretend to be - brake fade might set in after just one hot lap...and switching from street pads to track pads will only buy you a little bit more time before the fade sets in. BBK's will allow you to brake later and harder, corner after corner, with minimal or no brake fade. so, while on the streets the OEM brakes may be as good as any BBK, it certainly is NOT the case on the track.

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    SupraForums Member sks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 94JZA80 View Post
    yes and no...first of all, while i've heard of OEM TT brakes performing as well as many BBK's on the street only, i've never really heard of OEM TT brakes OUTperforming any BBK's...i suppose i could be wrong about that though. regardless, i stress "on the street only" b/c that's where the OEM TT brakes will prove themselves to be as worhty as any BBK - during short spurts of hard, but intermittent, braking, where they have ample time to cool off before the next spurt of hard braking. and rightfully so, for Supra BBK's are not designed to stop harder and faster than the OEM brakes - they are designed to resist brake fade much longer than the OEM brakes are. take it to the track/road course on the OEM brakes, and if you're a competent driver, your brakes will last you a few laps before fade sets in...if you're an excellent driver - which i don't pretend to be - brake fade might set in after just one hot lap...and switching from street pads to track pads will only buy you a little bit more time before the fade sets in. BBK's will allow you to brake later and harder, corner after corner, with minimal or no brake fade. so, while on the streets the OEM brakes may be as good as any BBK, it certainly is NOT the case on the track.
    Ditto.
    Last edited by sks; 02-01-2010 at 04:30 PM.


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    [SFOT] Carbon2 SUPRMSC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 94JZA80 View Post
    BBK's are not designed to stop harder and faster than the OEM brakes - they are designed to resist brake fade much longer than the OEM brakes are.
    Brake Pad & Fluid > Calipers in regards to brake fade.

  7. #6
    Is it turbo? Is it stick? TROLL's Avatar
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    Autozone DID sell TT calipers for a great price, but they are no longer available. They were an awesome way to go. Unfortunately its not an option any longer.

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    SupraForums Member sleeknsilver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TROLL View Post
    Autozone DID sell TT calipers for a great price, but they are no longer available. They were an awesome way to go. Unfortunately its not an option any longer.
    i just got off the phone with a local autozone and they said they can order them within 2 days.

    it's $97 with the old cores (i was going to give them back the n/a ones)

  9. #8
    Is it turbo? Is it stick? TROLL's Avatar
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    they're wrong... tell them to order them and see what happens.
    i went through the same exact thing.

    i hope you prove me wrong, but i've heard the story quite a few times now. give it a shot though, cant hurt... buy 100 if you can, or i will .

  10. #9
    SupraForums Member 94JZA80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPRMSC View Post
    Brake Pad & Fluid > Calipers in regards to brake fade.
    no doubt...i agree completely. but i think you missed my point. i didn't mean to imply that calipers are more often the cause of brake fade than pads or fluid if that's what you got out of it. in fact, my statement about BBK's being able to long outlast the OEM TT brakes with regard to brake fade lies in pad & rotor theory. sorry if i impied otherwise...in an attempt to make my previous comments more clear, i'll elaborate:

    a BBK uses a much larger rotor than the OEM TT brakes. the rotor therefore has a much larger surface area, as do the brakes pads speced for that particular BBK. there are then two consequences:

    1) all other factors being equal, the larger the surface area of the rotor, the greater the ability of the rotor to dissipate heat. the less rotor temps rise, the less likely your pads will glaze over, or at least rise above their maximum operating temperature. i understand that pads have a minimum operating temperature as well, and that they work as poorly below this minimum operating temp as they do above their maximum operating temp. that being said, the less you overheat your pads, the less likely they are to fade.
    2) all other factors being equal, the larger the footprint of the caliper/pad on the rotor, the lower the pressure is on the rotor in general. its like show shoes - without them, my feet exert ~160-lbs on an area the size of the soles of my feet, causing me to sink down into it. with show shoes, my ~160-lbs is spread out over a much larger area, decreasing the pressure on the snow enough to keep me from sinking in. back to pads & rotors, the larger the swept area of the rotor, the less pressure exerted on that area. the less pressure, the less friction (and heat) is produced, again keeping the pads from exceeding maximum operating temperature or glazing over.

    you make a good point about fluid as well, but i left it out of the equation (or considered it one of the factors held equal in the above scenarios) b/c you can use the same high performance brake fluid with OEM brakes as you can with a BBK.

    at any rate, your statement further validates why a BBK is far more resistant to fade than the OEM TT brakes are.


    OP, i can't speak for the rebuilt Autozone brakes, but if it isn't obvious by now, you can't go wrong with new/used TT brakes.
    Last edited by 94JZA80; 02-01-2010 at 06:48 PM.

  11. #10
    [SFOT] Carbon2 SUPRMSC's Avatar
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    ^ Thank you for pointing that out. Although I agree surface area is essential for BBK's, I just wanted to point out that there are many variables which makes a good brake system good, not just the calipers.

  12. #11
    Last NA Driver FLZ_Boy's Avatar
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    The real down part about using NA calipers are the smaller rotors that are used. Although, I haven't had any problems with my NA calipers for roadcourse use (with the proper brake pads matching the tires and proper fluids).
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    SupraForums Member sks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLZ_Boy View Post
    The real down part about using NA calipers are the smaller rotors that are used. Although, I haven't had any problems with my NA calipers for roadcourse use (with the proper brake pads matching the tires and proper fluids).
    You are an exception. I think it is your gutted car and 300+ treadwear tires. I'd like to see if that changes with your new tires.

  14. #13
    Last NA Driver FLZ_Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sks View Post
    You are an exception. I think it is your gutted car and 300+ treadwear tires. I'd like to see if that changes with your new tires.
    I do know Carbotechs and a fresh set of NAPA rotors will be needed for the street competition tires I will be using soon. Then I will only be 8 bus lengths behind you per lap.
    Last edited by FLZ_Boy; 02-02-2010 at 09:40 AM. Reason: Change in bus lengths measure.

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    Moderator Wreckless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sks View Post
    You are an exception. I think it is your gutted car and 300+ treadwear tires. I'd like to see if that changes with your new tires.
    Not just the gutted car & tires he's using, but as an NA he's not slowing down from the much higher entry speeds of a 450whp+ car on the track.

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    Last NA Driver FLZ_Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckless View Post
    Not just the gutted car & tires he's using, but as an NA he's not slowing down from the much higher entry speeds of a 450whp+ car on the track.
    Ding Ding! It's like driving a miata with more sheet metal.

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    Are the ls400 breaks the same as the tt breaks? if so what whats the part #?

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    Last NA Driver FLZ_Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted56 View Post
    Are the ls400 breaks the same as the tt breaks? if so what whats the part #?
    The LS400 Brakes are not the same as the TT ones, but they are both 4 pots and bolt on the same location. In addition, you will need to use LS400 rotors and brake pads. The LS400 rotors are slightly smaller than the TT's, but larger than the NA Supra. However, track pads for the LS400 are just a hair more than the NA and TT brake pads.

    Curt @ Elmhurst Toyota can give you the parts #, or you can search the Naturally Aspirated forums: http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...ht=ls400+brake

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    thanxs

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    Supra + DSM = heaven gixxer_drew's Avatar
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    You can make them work with ducting. They are also very heavy. Most modern aluminum BBK calipers are a few pounds each, stock TT calipers are 18lbs each.
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    SupraForums Member 94JZA80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gixxer_drew View Post
    You can make them work with ducting. They are also very heavy. Most modern aluminum BBK calipers are a few pounds each, stock TT calipers are 18lbs each.
    +1...the one thing i hate about the OEM calipers despite their excellent street performance is their weight. i picked up a 4-piston Brembo caliper the other day, and the whole thing was far lighter than just the outside half of one of my front calipers.

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    you know where i can get a rebuild kit for the caliper on a TT?
    Thanks




    Honestly, I would recommend hunting down a set of used OEM TT calipers here on the forums, sourcing new rotors and pads, and rebuilding/refinishing the calipers yourself. It's not hard at all.[/QUOTE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by shayanss View Post
    you know where i can get a rebuild kit for the caliper on a TT?
    Thanks...
    Your favorite Toyota dealer.

    For example, Curt at Elmhurst:

    Quote Originally Posted by aphlux View Post
    Curt,

    Need a front tt caliper rebuild kit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Aigner View Post
    04479-14140 calipr kit list 29.86 cost 22.80 [ does both calipers ]
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    They are heavy but they work well on this 400kw track car running 335 full slicks front and rear. A professional driver took it out for a session and drove it haaaard... he later said the best thing about it was the brakes. (race pads/standard discs/stock 4 pots.)








    But the fact it has good ducting and less weight must help a lot as the car next too it running slightly slower destroyed these discs/pads fairly fast. (race pads, standard discs.)
    (even with baller TRD calipers.)




  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AE111 View Post
    ...the car next too it running slightly slower destroyed these discs/pads fairly fast. (race pads, standard discs.)
    (even with baller TRD calipers.)...
    It looks like that other car is using a pretty thick wheel spacer. I see you're using overfenders with extra wide wheels and tires but are you running any spacer?

    Not to go off into left field, plus I don't really know how much, if any, effect the spacer might have, but I recall reading about cases where a wheel spacer interfered with heat transfer out of the rotor and caused pad/rotor overheating failure.

  26. #25
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    Neither are running spacers, the green ring is obviously just to center the wheel on the hub.. Even with that there is still plenty of wheel contacting the disc center where the studs go through it.

    The cooked brakes are from a black street supra, the track car has no problems with stock calipers/discs and race pads and good ducting. Both are friends cars, not mine.

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