getting rid of the o2 sensors

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  1. #1
    SupraForums Member anthrasupkid's Avatar
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    getting rid of the o2 sensors

    quick question, after going non turbo again im about to install my egr again, and go completely stock. but i did order some headers for the supra. when it was turbo'd i spliced one of the o2 sensors into the other one, and just ran the car off of one. now that there is no going back, and with the new headers i dont thing there is a plug for the o2 sensor, i was wondering what i can do in order to get rid of both of my o2 sensors? i know that as soon as it sends a code the check engine light comes on and the car starts running a little rich? is there any way to run an na supra without o2 sensors? thanks in advance.

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  3. #2
    6-speed NA FTW TNPerformance's Avatar
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    I wouldn't. O2 sensors are one of the most (if not THE most) important parts of cars running correctly. Whether it be stock ecu, or aftermarket standalone. All of them have to have some kind of A/F feedback, and thats the 02's job. Without them, the computer has no idea what type of fuel it needs to deliver to run stoich cause it isn't getting any feedback.

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    SupraForums Member Alex L.'s Avatar
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    No.


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    Busy Breeding Balls... J. Cooper's Avatar
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    WTF. Your car will go BOOM without o2 sensors.

    And WHY are you going 'non-turbo again' ???
    AND what new headers are you talking about ???

    I am hoping for a smart answer to my above question...
    Last edited by J. Cooper; 07-06-2010 at 05:47 AM.
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    SupraForums Member Pebbles's Avatar
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    after a post like that i dont think you should own or work on a car.

    1. you do need the 02 sensors
    2. its best to do both
    3. if you use one you can go to an auto parts store and buy an "oxugen sensor bung plug". its like 2 bucks in SS
    4. go to a junk yard and take off the second o2 sensor wire and connector from an sc300 or a gs300. basically anything with an OBD1 2jzge.

    hope you wont make fireworks of your car...
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  7. #6
    SupraForums Member T4-Teg's Avatar
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    You need the o2 sensors unless you go full standalone, and have the cars fuel/ign maps set permanatly (tune).

    You will need to run atleast 1 o2 sensor. Like you said before, you "can" leave one o2 sensor wire spliced into the other, and run 1 sensor. If your going NA and returning the car to stock, id just do it right and run both o2 sensors, and either run new signal wires if you must, or replace the engine harness with a new uncut one.

    Why are you bothering installing the EGR again? You dont need it to pass emissions just make sure the car is fully warmed up, and as long as you have funuctioning cat converter(s) you will pass. The EGR basically does nothing, reguarding how the engine performs, besided putting exhaust gas back into the engine. You would actually have better performance NA if you left the EGR valve removed. Just wire a 10k ohm resistor into the twi EGR wires, and you set, it wont throw a code.

    If your running a stock ECU with no piggyback setup, you really need to have your o2 sensors working properly. End of story.

    P.S. and no, if your car has no o2 sensors, the engine will not go "boom", it will just run in limp mode, and run like crap. Bad fuel milage, etc...

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    SupraForums Member T_Terror's Avatar
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    WTF 4 replys and all with incorrect answers?

    Yeah you can run it without the O2 sensors, it will only affect cruise economy since once you put your foot in, the ecu does whatever its tuned to do re ignition fuel.

    You guys are thinking of a wideband O2 sensor which is used for tuning and to some extent monitoring, the narrowband O2s just provide a rough A/R target.


    And yeah Im NA-T and have been running without any O2 sensors for 2 years.

    EDIT* Actually I just read the rest of your post and realized youre bringing the whole thing back to stock. Im not sure the standard ECU will run happily without any O2 sensors.
    Why dont you just try running it without the sensors and see what happens? It def wont go boom. If it runs real bad then just go and get some sensors from the wreckers.
    Last edited by T_Terror; 07-06-2010 at 11:15 AM.

  9. #8
    SupraForums Member soarer_704's Avatar
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    i'm not running any o2 sensors besides the wideband, no cel and drives fine. running map ecu 2 btw.

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    SupraForums Member anthrasupkid's Avatar
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    thanks for the responses guys. T Terror im just going to wait until i get my headers in and see how it runs without the o2 sensors. as for pebbles, you sound like a complete fucking jackass and did not help me in any way about my original question, i should'nt be doing work on my own car? if you think a car will blow up without o2 sensors i think your the one that should'nt be doing work on your own car.

  11. #10
    SupraForums Member anthrasupkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T4-Teg View Post
    You need the o2 sensors unless you go full standalone, and have the cars fuel/ign maps set permanatly (tune).

    You will need to run atleast 1 o2 sensor. Like you said before, you "can" leave one o2 sensor wire spliced into the other, and run 1 sensor. If your going NA and returning the car to stock, id just do it right and run both o2 sensors, and either run new signal wires if you must, or replace the engine harness with a new uncut one.

    Why are you bothering installing the EGR again? You dont need it to pass emissions just make sure the car is fully warmed up, and as long as you have funuctioning cat converter(s) you will pass. The EGR basically does nothing, reguarding how the engine performs, besided putting exhaust gas back into the engine. You would actually have better performance NA if you left the EGR valve removed. Just wire a 10k ohm resistor into the twi EGR wires, and you set, it wont throw a code.

    If your running a stock ECU with no piggyback setup, you really need to have your o2 sensors working properly. End of story.

    P.S. and no, if your car has no o2 sensors, the engine will not go "boom", it will just run in limp mode, and run like crap. Bad fuel milage, etc...
    reason im going to put the egr back on is because thats the way it came and i just want to run it like it was factory, and the check engine light is on because of it. im having an idle issue and im thinking it has something to do with the egr.

  12. #11
    SupraForums Member anthrasupkid's Avatar
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    so i checked the codes that it was throwing and here they are...

    12- RPM Signal
    21- o2 sensor signal
    28- Right o2 sensor signal
    42- vehicle speed sensor signal
    71- EGR System Malfunction

    i unplugged the o2 sensor just to see what it would do while i drove it, and the car drove no different then before. it does seem slugish at time on a cold motor, but other than that it runs fine? so it seems even the o2 sensor that i have in there now isnt working properly.

  13. #12
    SupraForums Member T4-Teg's Avatar
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    Just splice in a 10k ohm resistor into the EGR connector, and no more check engine light. Just ask your bro, im sure he has done it to his car.

    Just go to radio shack and ask for part number 271-1126, it will be a 5 pack of 10k ohm, 1/2 watt, 5% tolerance resistors. I think I paid less than $1 for them. I just cut the EGR connector off, and soldered each metal tab of the reistor to each of the wires and taped it up! took all of 5 mins.

    If they dont have this part number, or there are retards working there, you can easily identify the resistor by the color bands on the resistor itsself. You will be looking for in this order of color bands, Brown, Black, Orange, and Gold.

    If you say your returning the car back to the way it came from the factory, it should be a no brainer to put back the 2 stock o2 sensors... And the only way a removed EGR valve would cause an idle problem is if you have a vacuum leak. The EGR valve is not even open at idle!

  14. #13
    SupraForums Member anthrasupkid's Avatar
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    ^^ makes sence thanks. i dont think i'll be putting the egr back on, but as for the o2 sensors, i have no clue why they are not working. they were spliced into 1 when i was na-t, but it just started throwing codes when i went non turbo.

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    It's pretty clear that you might need some help with tuning, you've blown up 2 engines and now your trying to blindly run that engine without O2 sensors. If you're going to run the ECU without O2 feed back you should at least use a wideband, the AFC and get a reputable tuner to get you a usable AFR. I doubt your going to blow this one up since it's not TC but it's definitely not going to run at its potential.
    Last edited by Tuner562; 07-07-2010 at 07:14 PM. Reason: cut and paste is a bitch
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    SupraForums Member Pebbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthrasupkid View Post
    thanks for the responses guys. T Terror im just going to wait until i get my headers in and see how it runs without the o2 sensors. as for pebbles, you sound like a complete fucking jackass and did not help me in any way about my original question, i should'nt be doing work on my own car? if you think a car will blow up without o2 sensors i think your the one that should'nt be doing work on your own car.
    1. the guy above me said the car will go "boom" not me.
    2. i did give you helpful info. please reread my reply. i clearly told you ways to solve your problem.

    as far as calling me a "fucking jackass" i think its a bit much.

    edit: according to the post above mine saying you shouldnt work on your own car is a pretty accurate observation.

  17. #16
    Function over form
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    keep the o2 sensors. but fool 'em. fool 'em dirty!

    www.o2simulator.com

    get some and i'll find the wiring diagram tonite

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  18. #17
    2JZ NA-T
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Cooper View Post
    WTF. Your car will go BOOM without o2 sensors.

    And WHY are you going 'non-turbo again' ???
    AND what new headers are you talking about ???

    I am hoping for a smart answer to my above question...

    The reason behind him going back to na does not require an answer with any sort of intellect, that is not what is being addressed here.

    Also, the headers he will be running, how does that require a smart answer?


    And finally, would you please provide me with any sort of insight that can answer the logic behind you saying that the engine will blow up with o2 sensors? Highly doubt it.


    Pebbles, you too sir are implying with your smart ass firework comment that the engine wont run w/out o2 sensors, that leads me to believe that YOU are the one that shouldnt own, or atleast work on and make suggestions, regarding your car. So please do humor me as to how he would turn his car into a firework show w/out o2 sensors.

    Tuner562, he blew up 2 motors? No, 2 motors gave out while he was driving. Those motors would have blown just as fast if you, or anyone else, were driving the car. The first one was tune related, the second one had bad rings to begin with. He did not do any of the tuning himself, so you making the smart comment about him needing some help is not only stupid, but completely off topic in relation to this thread. Also, Tuner is your name? Maybe you should read up on the basic functions of the factory sensors, what they do, how they work, and what they are used for, it might help. The engine isnt running blindly w/out o2 feedback, read the end of my post, maybe it will help you figure out a dfference between a narrow band and a wideband sensor.

    t4-teg, finally we are getting somewhere, still a bit off though, w/out o2 sensors the car doesnt run in limp mode, it just doesnt go into closed-loop like it does at partial throttle/cruising situations like T_Terror suggested.

    What do you guys think happens to a factory set up when the o2 sensors go out? nothing. It just runs itself in open loop like it does under wideopen throttle situations where the narrow band sensor just cannot have a quick enough feedback, dont forget that this isnt the wideband sensor, it takes forever to get a ROUGH reading.

    What you guys are also neglecting to see is that the o2 sensors are a part of the emissions system....their main purpose is to make sure that the car isnt running too rich and spewing unburned fuel into the air, Thanks California! Therefor the adjustments the o2 makes is not for tuning purposes, its just to ensure that the air is polluted as little as possible, thats it.

    All of the gas mileage bullshit..well, atleast on his car its just that, bullshit. The car has been runing with its preset open loop setting during cruising and is getting amazing gas mileage. It might drop it down 5miles on every 350 he drive, but is that really a concern?


    Kaos, sure the o2 fooler would get rid of the check engine light but it would just do the same thing and not give a feedback to the ecu that it needs.. actually now that i think about it i think on a factory ecu w/out being able to adjust AFR's it might allow the ecu to make adjustments b/c rather than KNOWING the o2 is bad/not there, it thinks that its there which might allow it to go into closed-loop again...
    Last edited by Ravan17; 07-08-2010 at 09:54 AM.
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  19. #18
    Function over form
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    well, to be honest, if i were going back na i would hook everything back up just how it came from the factory. o2 sensors and everything. you can't go wrong that way. just wire everything back up how it came and let the ecu do it's thing.

  20. #19
    2JZ NA-T
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    Thats a valid point, and when presented as such it can be taken into consideration. But when idiotic comments are made, like some of the ones from above, it is hard to wonder what goes on in some peoples heads. lol.


    Hooking everything up like it were from the factory is a very good idea, and we would have done this a while back. Problem is the car is only going back to NA, not factory, the motor is out of a different year supra, its my motor that came out of the car for my build, o2 connectors are different in the harness and the a different type of o2 is needed to screw into the headers, all of the o2's we have are fouled to hell because they've been used as plugs while both of the car were turboed. Personally, i dont see a reason in spending an extra few hundred bucks because the car is idling good, and dirving just like it used to with no problems. But again, he wasnt asking whether or not it would drive PERFECT and 100% like stock, he was simply asking if it would run w/out major problems while we figured out what to do about the o2 sensors, ect.

    And now that i re-read the question and the answers to it, i wll have to go on record and say that in order for people to make such idiotically retarded, smart ass comments about not working/owning the car towards a household that has done EVERYTHING from the ground up on both of the supras must have a large sack hanging between the legs and not much going on up top in the head. We built my na-t going half blind into the build at a time where there werent this many people na-t, a lot of kinks were still getting worked out, my v160 was rebuilt by my father and now we have people bringing them from across the country. Who has a couple of stickies on here with write up for the na-t guys helping out with tranny and differential swaps? Was that me? hm.. cant seem to remember. we just built the engine that is going into my 700rwhp na-t, and guess who did it? we did. So saying that he shouldnt work and own his car is a direct slap in my face as well as the face of my father who has more mechanical skill than most of you can ever dream of having. Thanks for stopping by though, im not here just to lear, provide useful feed back, and ask questions, sometimes i get on just to get entertained by people like you guys.
    Last edited by Ravan17; 07-08-2010 at 10:17 AM.

  21. #20
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    well, if you can try finding some used O2 sensors that are for your specific car then it should work. don't be in a rush. also, even if for some reason the O2s aren't working right I believe the ECU will still try and hunt down the stoich 14.7 ratio. i don't think you will be blowing up any NA motor at the AFR. i think from the factory they run 14.7 and then at wot it drops to like ~13.5? if u insist on running without the sensors then i would def use the safc to just tell the ecu your injector size and leave it alone at that. so if you're using stock 330s just leave the safc alone.

    but do it right man. don't slowly kill a motor with lack of knowledge. just do it right. i am kicking myself right now for not spending the extra cash on a standalone. trust me, everyone is right about that when it comes to na-t.

  22. #21
    2JZ NA-T
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    C'mon man, you too? lol. You wont kill a motor. It might run a bit rich in some cases. The motor doesnt use the o2 feedback under wot, it knows the injector size, i knows the fuel it needs to give. I'll just leave it at that, im looking at it from a strictly engineering perspective, thats all. By plugging an safc and leaving it alone you arent doing anything. Im sure you know that unless you fool the o2 sensors with the simulator you posted above that the factory ecu fights the safc settings with the o2's plugged in, well the same concept would hold true with the o2's out, the car would do what it was designed/engineered to do, run in open loop like i sated above.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravan17 View Post

    Tuner562, he blew up 2 motors? No, 2 motors gave out while he was driving. Those motors would have blown just as fast if you, or anyone else, were driving the car. The first one was tune related
    LOL, this is sig worthy. The motors didn't blow up, it gave out because it's tune related... He called himself out by saying the motors blew up from running lean and didn't know what to do.
    Last edited by Tuner562; 07-08-2010 at 01:53 PM.

  24. #23
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    i dunno man. i would listen to tuner. he knows a lot and has helped me quite a bit. while i haven't had success running without o2 sensors i believe he has.

  25. #24
    2JZ NA-T
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuner562 View Post
    LOL, this is sig worthy. The motors didn't blew up, it gave out because tune related... He called himself out saying the motors blew up from running lean and didn't know what to do.
    what is sig worthy? your unbelievably bad grammar? What are you even trying to say? Yes the first motor ran lean, no he didnt know what to do about it, why the hell would he know what to do about the tuning issue? he isnt the one tuning the car. Called himself out? the motors didnt blow up because there werent any o2 sensors plugged in, like i said, that is off topic and not related to the question at hand.

    I have ran my na-t without o2 sensors since the beginning of the build in 2005 yet im not making statements on how an engine would blow w/out them.

    im out, not much for remarks with no reason and highschool drama.
    Last edited by Ravan17; 07-08-2010 at 11:52 AM.

  26. #25
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    i dont get it. when i run without o2 sensors the AFR fluctuates very rich every now and then. i could never get it right. what are you guys doing that i'm not?!

    i will be driving around at 13.5 instead of 14.7 without o2 sensors. that's too rich for cruising. it will only lean out to stoich when i give it gas and there is load on the motor. so i put the o2 sensor back in to achieve the stoich ratio in cruise. i tried pulling fuel w/the o2 sensor out but then when i give it load it gets too lean. so it would never drive like it did with the o2 plugged in.
    Last edited by kaos; 07-08-2010 at 12:52 PM.

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