400-500 Hp Daily Driver 7mgte

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    400-500 Hp Daily Driver 7mgte

    What is the most cost efficient and reliable way to make a 87 mk3 7mgte a 400-500 hp daily driver? Any ideas would be appreciated.

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    SupraForums Member John Dean's Avatar
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    2jz swap
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    coming soon apexi avcr, safc2, 2J 440s,

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    Total Annihilation Supra NA-T's Avatar
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    It wouldn't be fun if it was easy

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    TEXAS JZA80 kaotikgood's Avatar
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  6. #5
    weaksauce, work on it... 67m's Avatar
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    or quit making excuses about your own novice mechanical inadequacies... by throwin a 2j in it

    OP asked for how to make a cost effective 7mgte in the 400-500 hp range.
    short answer: fast, cheap, reliable... pick two

    long answer: 7m, 2j debate will never end. haters gonna hate, ballers gonna ball, and the village idiot will half ass a 7m rebuild, blow it up, and blame the engine publicly online with all his nut swinger buddies from the other towns. the web is full of useless regurgitated "some times untrue" information.

    first step... budget! figure out what exactly you want out of the car. there's plenty of build threads to sample.

    step two... are you qualified to do your own work? if not, are you willing to pay a professional shop?

    still with me?

    now its time to pick your flavor of jap 6cyl... 7m, 2j, or 1j if your not a fan of tq. they all have there die hard fans and nutswingers what ever flavor you decide is your call. 7m record is 1340whp all boost, so lets just let the #'s talk, haters can get bent...

    be prepared to sink $5000-$10000 into your supra to make it last with quality parts no matter what engine you go with.

  7. #6
    SupraForums Member John Dean's Avatar
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    ^ Pretty new to be talking shit. There is alot of back in forth between the 1jz amd 7m, but everyone always agrees (besides this dooche) that if you have the money 2jz is the way to go for reliability and power.

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    Total Annihilation Supra NA-T's Avatar
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    7M and cheap doesn't go well together. Sounds like someone is butt hurt.

  9. #8
    weaksauce, work on it... 67m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Dean View Post
    ^ Pretty new to be talking shit. There is alot of back in forth between the 1jz amd 7m, but everyone always agrees (besides this dooche) that if you have the money 2jz is the way to go for reliability and power.
    Build thread link is in my sig if your tring to size me up... your bpu at best with stock twins so id recomend you try not to dick meashure me from a join date and post count.

    If you dont have the $ or skill/education to open up an engine and have it done right, shure id recomend you just get a 2j, bolt a turbo on and go to town 400-500 hp will be easy. Same with 1j, but id still recomend that only if you dont like tq, and never want to break 1000whp cause to this day it hasnt been done in a 2.5L 1j. Splendid idea, lets put a smaller engine in a heavy ass mk3 and call it an upgrade.
    Last edited by 67m; 05-13-2011 at 11:37 AM.

  10. #9
    SupraForums Member destrux's Avatar
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    Not everyone is building their supra into a drag or dyno car. The 1JZ isn't the perfect drag or dyno motor, but it's still a great upgrade if you never plan to go over ~550hp. Not having a huge rush of torque is nice on twisty roads and rough pavement. It's easier to drive smooth, and smooth is fast. You also don't break driveline parts as often, so you don't have to stockpile transmissions and rear ends.

    It's not always whether or not you have the skill to open the motor up, but whether or not you WANT to. I'd rather not spend all the extra money and waste all that time if given a choice. A 500hp JZ engine doesn't need bottom end work, and you don't have to pull it apart to put a MLS head gasket in. The JZ heads are also more modern, so you get better efficiency and detonation resistance.
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  11. #10
    weaksauce, work on it... 67m's Avatar
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    how is it "extra" money all of a sudden?

    going jz parts needed if you have 7mgte
    2jzgte or 1j $2000-$3500
    ecu for ither $200
    harness+ mod $200- $600 not all engines have uncut harness so leave room for shop fees
    1j bell housing $275
    1jz flywheel $200
    motor mounts $175
    since your pre 89

    total: $3600-$5000

    worst part, your on stock twins, stock ecu, after all this work you still can only turn up the boost so much before you hit fuel cut... if 1j you have a top speed limiter... rofl

    so, i didnt mention new gaskets and rubber bits the engine would need to freshin it up wile its out because you have to do that to a 7M aswell... so add another $200

    ooh and a clutch and pressure plate... $200-$600
    damn need a fuel pump too... $75- $150


    meanwile i have
    $1600 in machine shop
    $1000 in rods
    $600 in pistons and rings
    optional
    $1000 in port n polish headwork and valve job

    $3100-$4300 and im ready for some power

    ------------------------------------------------ you would need these to upgrage aswell
    $550-$750 in injectors
    $1000-$1500 in standalone
    $600-$1600 in turbo setup
    ect... os valves, cams, cam gears are gonna cost the same 7m or jz


    have i made my point yet? cause soon your jz will need opened regardless of if you "want" to or not...

    if your worried about breaking the trans and diff, just drive like you sit down to take a piss. just my $.02

  12. #11
    Do stuf guy extraordinaie boostinprine's Avatar
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    ^ agree with 67M . Especially with the 400-500hp goal a 2J is not gonna gain all that much as properly built 7m can make that all day long.

    Serg.. Your best bet is to figure out what you already have. If your engine is shot and need of a complete rebuild it may be more cost effective to start fresh with another engine and have less down time. Check all the bearings and plastigauge everything and make sure that the clearences are good. ARP head bolts at minimum and metal headgasket with proper machined deck and head. Shim your oil pump (search) and put some decent pistons in it. Make sure the head is good and valve seats are ok and guides are not worn. And you should have an engine that will be capable of the power your looking for..

    As far as turbo, there are plenty of bolt-on CT style turbos that are capable of 400-500hp. Otherwise choose your posion, but dont go too big if you want a decent power band and not a laggy motor with poor streetability.

    And get used to JZ people trying to stick there "Huge" Cock in your ear anytime you say 7M. Its what gets them off and they will never stop. There kinda like the "chevy" guys, there shit dont stink and they will make sure you know it anytime it comes up. But at the end of the day a decent built 7m will do more than your are looking for and cheaper.
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  13. #12
    SupraForums Member destrux's Avatar
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    Why are you counting things like the fuel pump and clutch against the JZ swap price? The 7M needs those upgraded too for anything over ~350 whp. Not to mention if you already upgraded either one it will fit with the new engine anyway.

    Also, when you buy a motor set you usually get the ECU, transmission and bellhousing and all that... no need to buy them separate.

    If you're manual trans you only need to cut one wire to get rid of the speed limiter, btw.

    If you're dealing with a car that's got a good running 7M then there's no reason to swap it out. The 7M is a good motor. The problem is, if your 7M is messed up as bad as mine was (the crank was nearly melted in half, the head had a piston halfway through it, and the cams were seized) then you'll need to buy another motor anyway. It seems alot harder to find a good used 7M than it is to find a good used JZ engine. If you're rebuilding any import engine you'll need a really good machine shop that does alot of import engines. That's another thing that seems tough to find, at least locally. Not many people have the kind of facility that can assemble motors the way they do at the factory. Given, Toyota did screw the 7M up at the factory, but if they had used the proper gasket and torque spec I don't think the 7M would have the rep it does, and there would be alot less inexperienced hands inside of them messing things up further.

    I still don't understand what's cool about breaking driveline parts... you lost me there. I didn't say anything about not driving the car hard. It would be pointless to build a car like this and drive it slow all the time. It's a fact that a motor with less torque will be easier on things, that's why most (knowledgeable) manufacturers rate clutches and transmissions for torque capacity, not horsepower.

    I don't have any more time to waste arguing with you (67m). I obviously stepped on your tampon string with my first comment (which was unintended, I was simply stating my opinion, and I wasn't trying to put your engine of choice down). Didn't mean to make you bleed all over the place here.

  14. #13
    weaksauce, work on it... 67m's Avatar
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    destrux, i accept your applolgy... i mention the fuel pump, clutch, and pp are all needed on ither motors. same reason i said the top end gasket set or new rubber bits arent included in the list.

    regardless of the pidly details a jz swap from start to finish should be about $3600-$5000 right? not counting upgrades, just bare bones...
    a 7m can be built for that same price given its a good head/ block/ crank...

    this is what stepped on my tampon string
    thread title: 400-500 Hp Daily Driver 7mgte
    home boy wanted advice on what he needs to get a 400-500 Hp 7mgte, first 3 replies were rubbish.
    why do the jz owners see a thread that clearly says 7m and dive in with the ish talking?

  15. #14
    SupraForums Member Nissayota's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 67m View Post
    how is it "extra" money all of a sudden?

    going jz parts needed if you have 7mgte
    2jzgte or 1j $2000-$3500
    ecu for ither $200
    harness+ mod $200- $600 not all engines have uncut harness so leave room for shop fees
    1j bell housing $275
    1jz flywheel $200
    motor mounts $175
    since your pre 89

    total: $3600-$5000

    worst part, your on stock twins, stock ecu, after all this work you still can only turn up the boost so much before you hit fuel cut... if 1j you have a top speed limiter... rofl

    so, i didnt mention new gaskets and rubber bits the engine would need to freshin it up wile its out because you have to do that to a 7M aswell... so add another $200

    ooh and a clutch and pressure plate... $200-$600
    damn need a fuel pump too... $75- $150


    meanwile i have
    $1600 in machine shop
    $1000 in rods
    $600 in pistons and rings
    optional
    $1000 in port n polish headwork and valve job

    $3100-$4300 and im ready for some power

    ------------------------------------------------ you would need these to upgrage aswell
    $550-$750 in injectors
    $1000-$1500 in standalone
    $600-$1600 in turbo setup
    ect... os valves, cams, cam gears are gonna cost the same 7m or jz


    have i made my point yet? cause soon your jz will need opened regardless of if you "want" to or not...

    if your worried about breaking the trans and diff, just drive like you sit down to take a piss. just my $.02

    dont want to break your numbers, but you are wayyyyy off on the price of the 2jz... i recently bought 2x2jzgte with r154 trans to make 2x2jz powered 240sx and the engines came with the uncut harness, ecu, and all the extras... everything was as removed carefully from the car, and i only paid 4300 shipping included for both engines... so do your research before you start making up numbers...

  16. #15
    weaksauce, work on it... 67m's Avatar
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    its a moot point as op asked about 7m...

    and i dont have the most up to date info on 2j prices but id bet im pretty close on swap prices ither way...

    so what did it cost to 2j your 240? its a clean swap btw, update that build thread looks good.

  17. #16
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    1j's where soo 2005. I like them but by the time you price out a decent full running stock 1j swap you could have a fresh built 7m. 2j is the same but more $$. And in both cases its a used motor vs a "new" one. the jz's are simply better stock for stock because thats how evolution works.. the errors on the 7m where fixed on the jz's. What ever you decide, double your current budget. I didnt listen when i first started my build. nearly $6k later and I've damn near lost all interest in the stupid car. But it runs perfect!

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    I go a good running 7mgte. It is out of the car now. I am thinking of going with eagle rods, wisceco pistons, Titan mhg, arp main studs, arp head studs, overhaul the head stock, I don't know which turbo to go with, engine management, should I do anything to the tranny? What clutch should I go with. Any input would be appreciated.

  19. #18
    weaksauce, work on it... 67m's Avatar
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    Id say sp61 for your goals with the turbo. Ecu depends on alot of things in a perfect world id say standalone, but what it boils down to is budget and what your local tuner or shop is trained on. 400Hp your gonna have enough fudge room where a piggyback like maft pro would be plenty. From first hand exp if your can afford the standalone save your self the headache of inferior components. now for the trans, id recomend you do some forum digging. 500hp should be just fine on stock trans granted its in good shape and your run a good synthetic fluid. Wouldn't recomend flogging it from a longevity pov, or not lift shifts. drive it like and adult and its should be fine.

  20. #19
    SupraForums Member destrux's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'll admit, I misread the first post and got off on a tangent about engine swapping.... when there was nothing wrong with the OP's motor. No hard feelings.

  21. #20
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    67m is a LEGEND. Not to re-open an old post but I have had my MK3 7MGTE powered Gt Limited now for 8 years on a 7M that should have blown up apparently 7 years 364 days ago... Maybe it's because I look after my car changing oil every 5000km's amongst other things servicing it the way it should be done.. and it's driven too.. put on 50,000km's..

    I even bought a 1JZ half-cut 4 years ago that's sitting at my parents place incase my 7M blew the gasket which everyone always cries fowl about.

    It's been running for the last 5 years 230rwkw without opening the engine just mild upgrades.

    Haters will hate, and infact when people think you are running a 2J under the bonnet it makes me even more happier to tell them actually 'you're wrong, it's a 7M buddy...'

    Here is a picture of my car taken last week.

    I'm now even thinking of selling the 1JZ halfcut that came from a Twin Turbo R...

    Go here to check out my Supra...

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