2000cc+ FACEOFF How to compare injectors

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: 2000cc+ FACEOFF How to compare injectors

  1. #1
    1100+rwhp member suprareyrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    miami
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,727

    2000cc+ FACEOFF How to compare injectors

    Some recent injectors are available to compete with the id2000's that are High impedence your thoughts on

    The FIC's
    FIC 2150cc Toyota Supra TT 2JZ BlueMAX Top-feed Injector Set (High-Z)

    Fuel Injector Clinic Toyota Supra TT 2JZ BlueMAX Injector Set: 6 x 2150cc Saturated / High Impedance Ball & Seat Injectors. Largest high impedance injector ever! Great linearity and idle will work at elevated fuel pressure. Best injector for E85 applications! These injectors do not require a resistor pack or P&H drivers. DO NOT USE WITH "Q" or OTHER OXYGENATED FUELS.

    Model Number: IS245-2150H


    and the Denso 2000cc's

    2000cc, high-performance,
    high-impedance, flow-matched, Denso/Fiveomotorsport "Asphalt II" fuel injectors for import car - 4 cylinder engines.

    This is a flow matched set of high performance fuel injectors
    All new Viton orings, seals, and extenders are supplied for installation in most Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi, and many of import cars
    A new set of EV6 electrical connector pigtails is also supplied (see photo)


    This Denso injector set is part of our new "ASPHALT-2" series of new generation, flow matched, superstreet and racing fuel injectors.
    Accelerated Performance built 3.4L
    GT4780
    1128rwhp & 876 ft/lb tq E-85
    Suprareyrey Tuned
    2008 DIESEL F-350 4X4 (TOW vehicle)

  2. Remove Advertisements
    SupraForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Was 9sec STOCK motor 6spd Reid@SP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Dekalb, IL
    Age
    26
    Posts
    6,914
    We just did a build with a set of FIC Bosch 2150cc injectors and they run VERY nicely and obviously provide tons of fuel. They ran much nicer than the Siemens 2200cc injectors we've done in the past and are a fraction of the cost to the ID2000's considering they are both Bosch EV14 injectors.

  4. #3
    1100+rwhp member suprareyrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    miami
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,727
    Sounds like the same injector without the big cost..

  5. #4
    Hardtopper KirkMKIV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Age
    30
    Posts
    14,241
    You will not notice much of a difference on our cars between any of the Bosch EV14 injectors, no matter what name the sticker says......
    Kirk - 95 Hardtop
    BL375R, AEM V2, Hypertune, HKS 272, FIC2150


    EMAIL ME, KIRK(AT)THEBOOSTLAB.COM

  6. #5
    Twin Meister KenHenderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    SoCali
    Posts
    8,574
    OP, have you tested the Denso 2000s? Is elevated fuel pressure required for them to idle smoothly? Are these injectors direct from Nippondenso, or are they modified OEM Denso injectors? Sorry for all the questions. This is the first time I have heard of Denso 2000s, so I'm hoping you can help me out here. Thanks!

    Ken.
    www.sp-power.com
    HKS 3.4L: 1110 all-boost whp/839 lb-ft @ 2.6KG/CM^2
    1994 "SP ENGINEERING" TWIN HKS GT3240 TOYOTA SUPRA TURBO

    1985 P-Type Celica Supra 5MT
    1993.5 Toyota Supra Turbo Hard Top (BPU)
    1995 Toyota Supra Turbo 6MT (APU)
    2006 Toyota 4Runner Limited V8
    2007 Lexus IS 350
    2010 Lexus IS-F

  7. #6
    Hardtopper KirkMKIV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Age
    30
    Posts
    14,241
    For being 2000cc injectors, they sure as hell atomize better than your typical peak and hold 1000cc injectors.

    ID2000 spray pattern


  8. #7
    SupraForums Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Rolla, MO
    Age
    43
    Posts
    5,134
    Quote Originally Posted by KenHenderson View Post
    ... This is the first time I have heard of Denso 2000s...
    me too; i'm confused.

    i have heard of ID 2000's, FIC 2150's, Siemens 2200's... what are the Denso 2000's and can one of the knowledgable guys give a quick primer on all the readily available 2000+ inj's?


    TIA!
    craig
    Government cannot give anything to anybody that it doesn't first take from somebody else. Whenever somebody receives something without working for it, somebody else has to work for it without receiving. The worst thing that can happen to a nation is for half of the people to get the idea they don't have to work because somebody else will work for them, and the other half to get the idea that it does no good to work because they don't get to enjoy the fruits of their labor.
    - Adrian Rogers

  9. #8
    Getrag Gearhead carchitect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Dallas/Ft.Worth
    Age
    38
    Posts
    1,862
    Quote Originally Posted by KenHenderson View Post
    OP, have you tested the Denso 2000s? Is elevated fuel pressure required for them to idle smoothly? Are these injectors direct from Nippondenso, or are they modified OEM Denso injectors? Sorry for all the questions. This is the first time I have heard of Denso 2000s, so I'm hoping you can help me out here. Thanks!

    Ken.
    Ken, I was in the same boat too. I ended up getting 12 wrx sti Denso 565cc injectors (1130cc/cyl) . I've also recently purchased a set of 6 Denso 880cc injectors incase I'll need to update the secondary injectors to get me a total of 1445cc/cyl. My Motec M800 could run 6 primary and 6 secondary and its looking like the route I'll be taking.

    The metal body Densos are available upto 1000cc as you already know. The newer plastic body ones are available upto 880cc max. I believe this is the same case with the Bosch EV14 injectors also (my R&D was based on the data from Bosch motorsports). I believe all these really large 2000cc injectors are CNG gas injectors and not liquid fuel injectors. IMO, just because it works simply doesn't do it for me.

  10. #9
    Twin Meister KenHenderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    SoCali
    Posts
    8,574
    ^^Joe,

    I'm glad you popped in. As you know, I have the 1000 cc Denso injectors x 8 in my black car. Although I doubt I would ever change the set-up unless I had to, obviously, OEM 2000 cc Denso injectors x 6 would suit me just fine if ever there was a need. The problem is, I have been unable to track down 2000 cc injectors from Nippondenso, so I am hoping the OP can provide some clarity in this regard.

    Ken.

  11. #10
    Super Moderator Tres's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Age
    30
    Posts
    2,621
    Since the OP stated "Denso/Fiveomotorsport "Asphalt II"" I assume he's talking about the modified Denso injectors here: http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/toyot...fuel-injectors
    1994 Mazda RX-7 BUILD

  12. #11
    1100+rwhp member suprareyrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    miami
    Age
    36
    Posts
    1,727
    Quote Originally Posted by LexusFTW View Post
    Since the OP stated "Denso/Fiveomotorsport "Asphalt II"" I assume he's talking about the modified Denso injectors here: http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/toyot...fuel-injectors


    Any body here tried these injectos yet??

  13. #12
    T1raceparts.com
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Dallas
    Age
    35
    Posts
    179
    Here's a bit on the Denso 2000cc injectors...

    http://injectordynamics.blogspot.com...ctor-in-3.html

    And here's a bit on the difference between dynamic matching and high duty cycle or static matching.

    http://www.injectordynamics.com/dynamicmatch.html

    And here's just a bunch of really good tech articles about injectors, good reading if you want to learn.

    http://www.injectordynamics.com/tech.html

  14. #13
    EchoDeDupra Supradedupra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Tallahassee/Jacksonville/SFL
    Age
    28
    Posts
    4,127
    So are the Bosch the way to go?
    It's not what you have; it's what you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by exvelocity View Post
    Actually this car did catch fire at my shop,at that time it had more leaks than a torn off roof in a hurricane

  15. #14
    Getrag Gearhead carchitect's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Dallas/Ft.Worth
    Age
    38
    Posts
    1,862
    Quote Originally Posted by tony1 View Post
    Here's a bit on the Denso 2000cc injectors...

    http://injectordynamics.blogspot.com...ctor-in-3.html

    And here's a bit on the difference between dynamic matching and high duty cycle or static matching.



    http://www.injectordynamics.com/dynamicmatch.html

    And here's just a bunch of really good tech articles about injectors, good reading if you want to learn.

    http://www.injectordynamics.com/tech.html
    Tony, got a few questions about the IDs..

    Are these the same injectors as the Bosch Motorsports fuel injectors or are they modified OEM Bosch injectors? If so how are they modified?
    Are they CNG injectors like the old 1600cc bosch injectors that everyone sold years ago?

    The only injector I was interested in was the Bosch Motorsports B 280 436 469-01 which flows a tad over 1000cc/min and has a 20 deg twin spray towards each intake valve. This injector has an MSRP of 710 euros /ea !!!!!
    http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/cont.../html/2659.htm
    Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

    The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

    The artist must be sacrificed to their art like the bees. They must must put their lives into the sting they give.

    ASE master cert (A1-A8), L1,C1,X1& F1. Master Honda/Acura cert.,Master NSX cert., Master Lexus cert. Porsche Bronze cert.

    94 TT -undergoing chassis re-enforcement, Getrag swap, NSX long beach blue pearl repaint.
    08 IS350 sport pack. Radar cruise, Levinson, NAV...Daily

    Need Toyota/Lexus info ? email me

    joehussain@gmail.com

  16. #15
    Was 9sec STOCK motor 6spd Reid@SP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Dekalb, IL
    Age
    26
    Posts
    6,914
    We just had a car in here with the Siemens 2200cc injectors that ran like total crap. We put in the FIC 2150cc injectors and it runs like a champ! Thought I'd toss that in there. This car just made 1054whp @ 30psi on E85 also.

    Reid

  17. #16
    SupraForums Member Rocketman1000R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    The Fast Lane
    Posts
    1,579

    2200 cc E85 Injectors

    Are they safe to run E85? FIC Blue vs IDC, any info comparing the both?
    97 Turbo six speed, House of Kolor Paint, CCW 505A, Nitto INVO, AEM Infinity 10, Flex fuel, Tomie pistons, Manley Turbo Tuff Rods, ACL bearings, CT5 HX CompTurbo, VVTI GSC S2 cams, Supertech Valve train, Billet mains, Knife edge crank treated by WPC, RMR intake, IDC 2000, MVP triple hanger, KW V3, TRD dif, OG Giken R3C clutch, Wigging's clamps, 6" Extreme Turbo Systems Intercooler, Custom Saddle Tan interior, Du Luck cross bar, 10K rpm tach, 220mph speedo and gaugeART. See my link: http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...ge3&highlight=

  18. #17
    Was 9sec STOCK motor 6spd Reid@SP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Dekalb, IL
    Age
    26
    Posts
    6,914
    ID2000's and FIC 2150's (both Bosch EV14 injectors) are E85 safe.

  19. #18
    SupraForums Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    PA
    Age
    34
    Posts
    542
    Quote Originally Posted by suprareyrey View Post
    Any body here tried these injectos yet??
    I'd like to hear some feedback as well.
    92 240sx
    2jz swap 7175 turbo gsc stage 2 cams
    Haltech PS2000 ECU

  20. #19
    T1raceparts.com
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Dallas
    Age
    35
    Posts
    179
    I was asked to provide a little more info here.

    What's the difference in multiple people selling 'the same thing'? Well, assuming you are actually getting the same injector, the final product is dependant on how well the 'set' is matched and what data you are provided with them.

    Check out this graph. This is every tenth injector out of a batch of ID2000's.



    Notice that static and high pulsewidth flow is pretty good across all of them? Tested on most people's equipment these would all be a 'good match'.

    Look at low pulsewidth deviation across them. Gets ugly huh? 13% spread from one cylinder to the next at idle isn't going to make for a very good idle is it?

    Here's a matched set from Injector Dynamics.



    YOU CAN NOT ACCURATELY DO LOW FLOW DYNAMIC TESTING WITH COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE FLOW BENCHES

    All ID injectors are matched based on 450 data points of dynamic flow data. This takes both injector dead time (known as offset) and flow rate (known as slope) into account. This isn't something we invented, there are SAE papers written many years ago about this stuff, this is just the correct way of doing things.

    Injector Dynamics is also the only company I know of who runs all injectors through a break in procedure to ensure the injector is broken in for consistent testing. We only use new cores and the coil and valves/seats WILL seat in a bit and change the characteristics slightly once broken in. If not broken in before testing the results will not be consistent.









    All injectors are run in for 30 minutes at varying pulsewidths before the dynamic testing is performed. The above is not the test bench, just the break in bench.

    In addition, who else provides the data that Injector Dynamics does?

    Check for yourself, anything you ever wanted to know and more is on the website.

    http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID725.html
    http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID850.html
    http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000.html
    http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID2000.html

    http://www.injectordynamics.com/ApplicationData.html

    And I highly encourage everyone to read the technical articles here, I don't care who you are, you WILL learn something.

    http://www.injectordynamics.com/tech.html


    So do you really think the other guys claiming "the same thing as ID but cheaper" have "the same thing"?

  21. #20
    Supporting Vendor Alpha's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Tampa Florida
    Age
    30
    Posts
    3,925
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by tony1 View Post
    I was asked to provide a little more info here.

    What's the difference in multiple people selling 'the same thing'? Well, assuming you are actually getting the same injector, the final product is dependant on how well the 'set' is matched and what data you are provided with them.

    Check out this graph. This is every tenth injector out of a batch of ID2000's.



    Notice that static and high pulsewidth flow is pretty good across all of them? Tested on most people's equipment these would all be a 'good match'.

    Look at low pulsewidth deviation across them. Gets ugly huh? 13% spread from one cylinder to the next at idle isn't going to make for a very good idle is it?

    Here's a matched set from Injector Dynamics.



    YOU CAN NOT ACCURATELY DO LOW FLOW DYNAMIC TESTING WITH COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE FLOW BENCHES

    All ID injectors are matched based on 450 data points of dynamic flow data. This takes both injector dead time (known as offset) and flow rate (known as slope) into account. This isn't something we invented, there are SAE papers written many years ago about this stuff, this is just the correct way of doing things.

    Injector Dynamics is also the only company I know of who runs all injectors through a break in procedure to ensure the injector is broken in for consistent testing. We only use new cores and the coil and valves/seats WILL seat in a bit and change the characteristics slightly once broken in. If not broken in before testing the results will not be consistent.









    All injectors are run in for 30 minutes at varying pulsewidths before the dynamic testing is performed. The above is not the test bench, just the break in bench.

    In addition, who else provides the data that Injector Dynamics does?

    Check for yourself, anything you ever wanted to know and more is on the website.

    http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID725.html
    http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID850.html
    http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000.html
    http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID2000.html

    http://www.injectordynamics.com/ApplicationData.html

    And I highly encourage everyone to read the technical articles here, I don't care who you are, you WILL learn something.

    http://www.injectordynamics.com/tech.html


    So do you really think the other guys claiming "the same thing as ID but cheaper" have "the same thing"?
    Always enjoy your posts Tony
    Induction Performance
    Induction Performance FB
    FL2K
    Tuning(AT)InductionPerformance(DOT)com (PLEASE E-MAIL ME)
    Check the Marketplace for deals from Induction Performance
    TX2K11 - Supra Nationals Sponsor
    TX2K12 - Supra Nationals Sponsor
    TX2K13 - Texas Nationals Sponsor
    FL2K13 - Florida Nationals Presenter/Sponsor
    TX2K14 - Texas Nationals Sponsor

    DO NOT PRIVATE MESSAGE ME. E-MAIL TUNING (AT) INDUCTIONPERFORMANCE (DOT) COM

  22. #21

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Posts
    46
    Subscribed
    08 CBR1000rr - Lightly modded and Jockey lol

  23. #22
    MKIV owner since 1996 AdamGamz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Oviedo, Florida
    Posts
    3,646
    I just ordered a set of ID1300's for my 10:1 TH400 PTE7175 GS300. I think these will be just the right size for my power goals. Too bad there wasn't a 1400 injector but I think the 1300's will be sufficient. Now I need to sell my new Bosch EV14 2000's that I just bought.
    2001 GS300, 2JZGTE-VVT-i, TRD LSD, PTE 6667, SP400 / Gear Vendors 6 Speed, Titan 264 VVTI Cams, Motec M800 10.2 @ 137 MPH

    1997 TT 6 Speed Supra Precision 76mm / AEM 800+ RWHP

    2006 Viper Coupe, Black, 1800 miles

  24. #23
    Supporting Vendor Alpha's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Tampa Florida
    Age
    30
    Posts
    3,925
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamGamz View Post
    I just ordered a set of ID1300's for my 10:1 TH400 PTE7175 GS300. I think these will be just the right size for my power goals. Too bad there wasn't a 1400 injector but I think the 1300's will be sufficient. Now I need to sell my new Bosch EV14 2000's that I just bought.
    50lbs base pressure you effectively have 1445cc worth of injector

  25. #24
    MKIV owner since 1996 AdamGamz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Oviedo, Florida
    Posts
    3,646
    ok cool, should be perfect then

  26. #25
    SupraForums Member vacuumlogic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    767
    Subbed, keep this thread going.

+ Reply to Thread

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • Decrease Size
    Increase Size
  • Remove Text Formatting
  • Insert Link Insert Image Insert Video
  • Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text

Similar Threads

  1. Import Faceoff!!
    By Tibert11 in forum South Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-09-2008, 09:15 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts