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2000cc+ FACEOFF How to compare injectors

27K views 24 replies 15 participants last post by  vacuumlogic 
#1 ·
Some recent injectors are available to compete with the id2000's that are High impedence your thoughts on

The FIC's
FIC 2150cc Toyota Supra TT 2JZ BlueMAX Top-feed Injector Set (High-Z)

Fuel Injector Clinic Toyota Supra TT 2JZ BlueMAX Injector Set: 6 x 2150cc Saturated / High Impedance Ball & Seat Injectors. Largest high impedance injector ever! Great linearity and idle will work at elevated fuel pressure. Best injector for E85 applications! These injectors do not require a resistor pack or P&H drivers. DO NOT USE WITH "Q" or OTHER OXYGENATED FUELS.

Model Number: IS245-2150H


and the Denso 2000cc's

2000cc, high-performance,
high-impedance, flow-matched, Denso/Fiveomotorsport "Asphalt II" fuel injectors for import car - 4 cylinder engines.

This is a flow matched set of high performance fuel injectors
All new Viton orings, seals, and extenders are supplied for installation in most Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi, and many of import cars
A new set of EV6 electrical connector pigtails is also supplied (see photo)


This Denso injector set is part of our new "ASPHALT-2" series of new generation, flow matched, superstreet and racing fuel injectors.
 
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#2 ·
We just did a build with a set of FIC Bosch 2150cc injectors and they run VERY nicely and obviously provide tons of fuel. They ran much nicer than the Siemens 2200cc injectors we've done in the past and are a fraction of the cost to the ID2000's considering they are both Bosch EV14 injectors.
 
#5 ·
OP, have you tested the Denso 2000s? Is elevated fuel pressure required for them to idle smoothly? Are these injectors direct from Nippondenso, or are they modified OEM Denso injectors? Sorry for all the questions. This is the first time I have heard of Denso 2000s, so I'm hoping you can help me out here. Thanks!

Ken.
 
#7 ·
... This is the first time I have heard of Denso 2000s...
me too; i'm confused.

i have heard of ID 2000's, FIC 2150's, Siemens 2200's... what are the Denso 2000's and can one of the knowledgable guys give a quick primer on all the readily available 2000+ inj's?


TIA!
craig
 
#9 ·
^^Joe,

I'm glad you popped in. As you know, I have the 1000 cc Denso injectors x 8 in my black car. Although I doubt I would ever change the set-up unless I had to, obviously, OEM 2000 cc Denso injectors x 6 would suit me just fine if ever there was a need. The problem is, I have been unable to track down 2000 cc injectors from Nippondenso, so I am hoping the OP can provide some clarity in this regard.

Ken.
 
#12 ·
#14 ·
Here's a bit on the Denso 2000cc injectors...

http://injectordynamics.blogspot.com/2010/02/how-to-build-2000cc-denso-injector-in-3.html

And here's a bit on the difference between dynamic matching and high duty cycle or static matching.



http://www.injectordynamics.com/dynamicmatch.html

And here's just a bunch of really good tech articles about injectors, good reading if you want to learn.

http://www.injectordynamics.com/tech.html
Tony, got a few questions about the IDs..

Are these the same injectors as the Bosch Motorsports fuel injectors or are they modified OEM Bosch injectors? If so how are they modified?
Are they CNG injectors like the old 1600cc bosch injectors that everyone sold years ago?

The only injector I was interested in was the Bosch Motorsports B 280 436 469-01 which flows a tad over 1000cc/min and has a 20 deg twin spray towards each intake valve. This injector has an MSRP of 710 euros /ea !!!!!
http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/content/language2/html/2659.htm
 
#16 ·
2200 cc E85 Injectors

Are they safe to run E85? FIC Blue vs IDC, any info comparing the both?
 
#19 ·
I was asked to provide a little more info here.

What's the difference in multiple people selling 'the same thing'? Well, assuming you are actually getting the same injector, the final product is dependant on how well the 'set' is matched and what data you are provided with them.

Check out this graph. This is every tenth injector out of a batch of ID2000's.



Notice that static and high pulsewidth flow is pretty good across all of them? Tested on most people's equipment these would all be a 'good match'.

Look at low pulsewidth deviation across them. Gets ugly huh? 13% spread from one cylinder to the next at idle isn't going to make for a very good idle is it?

Here's a matched set from Injector Dynamics.



YOU CAN NOT ACCURATELY DO LOW FLOW DYNAMIC TESTING WITH COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE FLOW BENCHES

All ID injectors are matched based on 450 data points of dynamic flow data. This takes both injector dead time (known as offset) and flow rate (known as slope) into account. This isn't something we invented, there are SAE papers written many years ago about this stuff, this is just the correct way of doing things.

Injector Dynamics is also the only company I know of who runs all injectors through a break in procedure to ensure the injector is broken in for consistent testing. We only use new cores and the coil and valves/seats WILL seat in a bit and change the characteristics slightly once broken in. If not broken in before testing the results will not be consistent.









All injectors are run in for 30 minutes at varying pulsewidths before the dynamic testing is performed. The above is not the test bench, just the break in bench.

In addition, who else provides the data that Injector Dynamics does?

Check for yourself, anything you ever wanted to know and more is on the website.

http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID725.html
http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID850.html
http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID1000.html
http://www.injectordynamics.com/ID2000.html

http://www.injectordynamics.com/ApplicationData.html

And I highly encourage everyone to read the technical articles here, I don't care who you are, you WILL learn something.

http://www.injectordynamics.com/tech.html


So do you really think the other guys claiming "the same thing as ID but cheaper" have "the same thing"?
 
#22 ·
I just ordered a set of ID1300's for my 10:1 TH400 PTE7175 GS300. I think these will be just the right size for my power goals. Too bad there wasn't a 1400 injector but I think the 1300's will be sufficient. Now I need to sell my new Bosch EV14 2000's that I just bought.
 
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