7MGTE/FFIM/Cold Start Injector/Idle Control

[SupraTrey]

So I am going to go with a FFIM (Front Facing Intake Manifold) on my 7MGTE. I have the Idle Control Module all figured out but what are you guys doing for CSI? (Cold Start Injectors?) I know people have gone with aftermarket ones, but has anyone re-used the stock? How did you wire it up? Did you just use the stock wiring back to the thermostat housing? Pro's and Con's? Pictures?

Looking for ideas. Thanks guys.

Trey

[DegreE_v.2.0]

I don't know if this will help, but since using 7MGTE ECU, Harness, and Sensors on my 2JZGE... I'm not using the cold-start injector, and the car fires right up (lowest temp about 50*F.) I almost want to say that the CSI isn't even needed. But I haven't yet to expose the car to near freezing temps.

[raysupra]

I have a FFIM and I don't had a ISC or CSI.. But i'm not of the 7m ecu any longer.. I just tuned the car a good as i could at idle.. and it starts right up and purrs just fine :-)

Whats the coldest temperatures you see trey?
wonder what Flubyux2 used...
I wouldn't think the ISC would be needed you can control that by just setting your idle.. if you were really scared you'd have startup problems you could add the CSI ...

[ecekovic]

the stock ecu only fire the CSI on start up if i Rember correctly, it is only momentary while it is cranking, and i believe it is disabled via Cold Start temp switch on the Thermostat housing once engine the warms up. I got rid of mine when i went FFIM and never missed it once.
if your really keen on keeping it, you may have to weld a flange onto the ffim some where and just wire it and plumb the fuel exactly like stock.

[jt2ma71]

Manifold shown has provisions for stock ISC, stock CSI. I've never heard of anyone using an aftermarket CSI unless they are using aftermarket ecu that uses the main injectors as primers, ie: (turn ignition on, pump primes, step on gas pedal and injectors squirt fuel in the chambers, motec does this)
Like most have said, CSI can be omitted without major issues. Q45 tb makes it easier to delete the ISC also.

[flubyux2]

No csi or ISC on my car. My manifold has the pre89 tb with the separate idle air bleed screw. Much better for setting an idle than the 89+ that requires adjusting the throttle stop screw. But a non 7m tb would be a diff story.

This is cold start, about 60*f out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlPOp...e_gdata_player

[Enraged]

No ISC or CS, but I've got a standalone. Is this for your red car or your white car?

[mrsupra89t]

I plan on going FFIM also. I've looked at a few, The one that caught my eye is the one from SupraSport.com. They have the option to keep the stock CSI and keep the ALT and AC too, no battery relocation needed. As for the CSI it would depend on where you live, me being up in canada and using the stock ECU I will probably need to keep it unless I can tune for it with the MAPECU.

PS. They are doing a group buy for it soon to, on SM and facebook!

[SupraTrey]

Thanks guys. This is for my white car and I only drive it in the summer so no worries on really cold starts. Based on what I see I think I will make provisions for the idle control but it seems to me the CSI really isn't needed.

I already have the one i am getting picked out. Its not the ss. If you are interested in one, PM me. I have an alternative source. If anyone has pictures of theirs... Please post em up

[bassjunkiens5]

I've had the CSI on my 91 disconnected for over a year now. Over the winter it got below freezing (~20*F) and would start up fine. Only issue I've had was rail pressure would bleed off after about 10-12 hours and have to bump the key to trip the pump into a cycle, then it would start.

[matt666]

I've had the CSI on my 91 disconnected for over a year now. Over the winter it got below freezing (~20*F) and would start up fine. Only issue I've had was rail pressure would bleed off after about 10-12 hours and have to bump the key to trip the pump into a cycle, then it would start.

Don't mean to thread jack:

Now why would it do that?

Off topic but mine takes a long crank to start, usually i just crank it for a second, stop then crank again and she starts right up. I've been told that was the bleed back valve in the fuel pump being shot. My CSI is operational. Just would like to fix that starting issue, always have an eye out for stuff about it.

[flubyux2]

IMO, the ISC isn't all that critical.
I had giant electric fans, 12v fuel pump, no ps-idle-up vsv, functioning Ac and my idle never dipped more than 100rpm off the base. I can assure you, If you decide against the ISC, your car won't be troublesome to drive. It's totall fine if you take the easy way out. Lol

Btw, the fuel pressure bleed off is nothing new to me. Actually, I've never seen a supra that held fuel pressure over night... Let alone, longer than an hour.

I may need one done for a 2j in the future....

[flubyux2]

Dirty injectors can exacerbate not having a csi.

[bassjunkiens5]

I'm still using the factory fuel pulsation dampener. I'm sure it works fine but won't hold the running rail pressure for a period of time with the engine off. It's supposed to let fuel by but at a controlled rate. No real reason behind disconnecting the CSI.

As far as cranking, try not to hold it for a long period. Simply bumping it sends a signal for the FP to kick on. Give it 2 or 3 seconds then start.

[flubyux2]

Well, more often than not, the stock csi is covered with sludge and soot. The spray pattern becomes just a dribble. The other thing is that the port on the rail is a prime spot for a fuel pressure guage pickup point for those without an afpr kit. In fact, it's definitely a quick and dirty way to get more fuel pressure accurately. If someone is in a pinch, they can hook up a guage to the port. Then, they can tap the top of the stock fpr and dent it in to bump up the rail pressure.

I don't believe I've ever seen an fpd that has a check valve feature in it. I'm not sure that the stock 7m piece is supposed to hold rail pressure while the engine is off.

[bassjunkiens5]

I have an afpr with a gauge, just no need to put it on. My CSI is clean since I took the intake off a few months ago to clean some oil residue. There isn't a check valve in the FPD, it just maintains rail pressure by restricting flow back to the tank. Never said it did have one. There should always (reasonable amount of time) be pressure in the rail. Not sure what the issue is or what you're getting at. All I was saying is I don't have my CSI connected and I have an issue that is more than likely unrelated. Start ups are fine, cold start idle is right at 1100 and quickly settles to ~750 like it should. The CSI isn't for sub freezing weather but for anything under a certain operating temp.

[suprra_girl]

When I went ffi I just removed my csi and never had an issue starting, although it doesn't ever really get cold here heh

[BlackDevilSupra]

Removing the CSI is an easy decision.
Removing the ISC will depend on how much starting and drivability issues, such as decelerating, stalling, and coming to a stop, are you willing to accept.

[flubyux2]

There's not an issue. I'm not sure why everyone wants to insist I have a problem with them when I engage in a civil discourse.

The fpd doesn't do the things you think it does. It will never restrict flow back to the tank any differently than it restricts flow FROM the tank. Almost every fuel system will bleed off pressure within 30 min to several hours. I've never seen a car maintain rail pressure over night. The only pressure I have seen on a vehicle that has sat more than several hours was vapor pressure from the tank itself back feeding pressure up the return line. I have had cars puke fuel out after disconnecting the lines. But cracking the fuel cap fixes this usually.

I guess any issues from removing the ISC will vary. I personally had zero issues in 7 years. The last owner of my manifold also had no issues in the 3 years prior. Ymmv.