Highest horsepower W58 road racing?

[Fried_rice]

I've read the millions of threads stating the 400-450 RWHP limit of the W58. Then there are some people making 5-600 hp semi reliably with the W58. Most of the W58's that blow are street driven, full weight, launched and hard shifted.

Does anyone have experience with a fully gutted car in the 3200lb range that road races exclusively? I figure the W58 wouldn't last long with race slicks, but may make it on street tires.

I also read that a completely NA race car was stripping the input shaft continually.

Is it worth $3-500 for a clutch to test out the horsepower limitations or should I spend $2,000 on an R-154?

[Zach90Turbo]

How serious are you about road racing and what kind of power are you going to be making? My only experience road racing with a w58 is at stock power in a very light car, but I've had no issues.

[Wreckless]

I've read the millions of threads stating the 400-450 RWHP limit of the W58. Then there are some people making 5-600 hp semi reliably with the W58. Most of the W58's that blow are street driven, full weight, launched and hard shifted.

Does anyone have experience with a fully gutted car in the 3200lb range that road races exclusively? I figure the W58 wouldn't last long with race slicks, but may make it on street tires.

I also read that a completely NA race car was stripping the input shaft continually.

Is it worth $3-500 for a clutch to test out the horsepower limitations or should I spend $2,000 on an R-154?

Sell your W58 while it's still functional and worth something, go R154 or V160 and enjoy the car without worrying about your transmission every time you drive it. W58's have been known to let go even when you're trying to baby it at 300whp with normal street tires and no launches or hard shifting at all, it's a silly thing to risk especially when it involves the additional expense of a clutch just to cross your fingers and hope it holds together.

[FLZ_Boy]

As you mentioned the input shaft is prone to shearing all it's teeth off. However, this was on J Pauly's NA Supra (it may be an exclusive problem with them or setup). The other NA road race Supras appear to not have that problem. I do notice that J Pauly's NA Supra seem to be using 255/275 race tires versus the other NA road race Supra appear to be using 225/245 race tires.

I personally use a ~3,305 lbs (w/driver) NA Supra for time trials. However, I use only street competition tires (XS, R-S3, etc.) 235 front and rear. I have rebuilt my W58 recently as a normal maintainance item (it had ~180,000 miles already on the clock). My NA outputs roughly around ~200 rwhp. Before I rebulit my W58, it had 180,000 miles and gone through 10 HPDE days. After the rebuilt, I have put in roughly 5 days of HPDE driving. I have yet to see my W58 grenade, but it shows no signs of unusual wear or noise. It still feels great after the rebuild.

[Mr Ree NZ]

I ran my w58 for many track days at circa 400whp, on full slicks, but I dont drive it like I want to kill it.

I didnt select an aggressive clutch, and Im sure than helped to ensure it lasted.

But as everyone is saying, if you are serious, just sell it while its worth some dollars and pony up for the R154 with a refresh and MC parts, and dont look back (Ive done this too btw)

[94nasupra]

I was wondering the same thing. I am on a w58 but 20 lbs with a 6765. I don't want to waste my time and road race and not even being able to "drive" it hard. Just waiting for the 6 speed swap so I can beat on it and not waste my time.

[Poznanski]

at 450rwhp my w58 barely lasted a year and thats not even racing just street driving

[Mr Ree NZ]

I think there needs to be a clear distinction being driving something "hard" and driving something with absolutely no respect.

The former, if shifts are clean, and the clutch isnt to aggresive, should be a recipe for a longer life for the box, the latter will find its weak points and hammer them into submission.

If you arent actually racing door to door with other cars, there is no need to abuse your car on the track with brutal gear shifts, as the extra lap time it gains you is relatively small when you compare it to the damage its doing.

[LordDigital]

If it helps ,looking at the GroupA history ,the first MA70 used for profesinal circuit racing (ETCC ,WTCC) had W58. Hans Hayer pushed RAS to build two cars for the 87 season ,and Toyota delayed the Turbo homologation with 6 months - RAS had no choice but to use W58 for the first build ,and I don't recall any retirments due to tranmission failures for the ETC season Cars were N/A ,IIRC 2500lbs in the first evolution with 290PS 7m-ge engines.

[Poznanski]

i dont think its a matter of the driver but just anything past 400 in a 58 is just a ticking timebomb, its a light duty trans

[Mr Ree NZ]

Agreed, there is risk of it blowing by running more power through it, but driver influence plays a big part in how long it will last.

Nice clutch, nice oil, nice treatment=far happier gearbox than once thats got a brass button clutch, gets clutch dumps/kicks, and is running 180k mile old oil lol

Fate will always play a part, but Im reasonably sure alot of the w58 failures are simply due to poor treatment/maintenance at some stage.

[Poznanski]

Agreed, there is risk of it blowing by running more power through it, but driver influence plays a big part in how long it will last.

Nice clutch, nice oil, nice treatment=far happier gearbox than once thats got a brass button clutch, gets clutch dumps/kicks, and is running 180k mile old oil lol

Fate will always play a part, but Im reasonably sure alot of the w58 failures are simply due to poor treatment/maintenance at some stage.

thats true, i think a smooth driver and maintenance may give it a longer life, but eventually the power will push the 58 too far, but if hes building a serious road race car here and the track will be technical with a lot of low gear, 2 years il give that 58 max

[Fried_rice]

I've been running at MSR here in Houston but I plan on going to events all over Texas. I'm not racing yet, but I do drive the car to my limits, which is pretty aggressive. I do plan on racing door to door with more track time. So far everything has held up great with my setup including; Mishimoto 3-Row radiator and Oil cooler, stock brakes and pads (no fade somehow), TT suspension (feels great somehow), steering rack bushing, and control arm bushings. The car is an SC300 gutted with fading paint. I've passed some pretty fast cars Supercharged Mustang GT, Lotus Exige, Lotus Espirit, Porche 911, 350z's, etc. The drivers probably sucked or weren't balls to the wall in their expensive cars, like me in my pos. My goal is to be able to hang with c6 Z06's and GTR's in the straights, but I doubt that's a possibility with the W58.



Maybe 400hp will be enough, but I doubt it coming from a 700hp supra. I'm just dreading all the little parts required for the R154, diff, clutch master, driveshaft, bellhousing, etc...

I'm really trying to see how much car per dollar I can get out of this, seeing how I picked the car up for a great price. Thanks everyone for your responses, and I will update this thread if I do stick with the W58 and start pushing its limits.

[FLZ_Boy]

Realistically a NA Supra/SC300 on street competition tires is equivalent to a Spec Miata in lap times. If you plan to go up with the big boys, I would suggest a C5 or S2000. I would maybe even suggest looking for a C5 with T1 modificatiins already done, best value if you want a reasonably fast car for less.

I can understand certain cars mean something, but there is a point you have to be serious with your budget with realistic expectations on the results you want to achieve.

[Fried_rice]

Realistically a NA Supra/SC300 on street competition tires is equivalent to a Spec Miata in lap times. If you plan to go up with the big boys, I would suggest a C5 or S2000. I would maybe even suggest looking for a C5 with T1 modificatiins already done, best value if you want a reasonably fast car for less.

I can understand certain cars mean something, but there is a point you have to be serious with your budget with realistic expectations on the results you want to achieve.

I feel you, and I know I could have purchased a miata or corvette, or the tons of other cars that are better suited to road racing but I love the supra platform. I also know every part and have taken these cars apart and back together many many times. With boost and a total disregard for convenience and refinement I'm sure I can give many possibly better suited cars a run for their money, maybe a raping. At a budget of just over $4,500, car included, I can be at 400RWHP on the W58. At $6,500 total I can be at 650 rwhp with the R154.

I've spent just over $3,000 dollars on this car so far NA, which leaves me a-lot of room to leave the competition behind.

[FLZ_Boy]

I feel you, and I know I could have purchased a miata or corvette, or the tons of other cars that are better suited to road racing but I love the supra platform. I also know every part and have taken these cars apart and back together many many times. With boost and a total disregard for convenience and refinement I'm sure I can give many possibly better suited cars a run for their money, maybe a raping. At a budget of just over $4,500, car included, I can be at 400RWHP on the W58. At $6,500 total I can be at 650 rwhp with the R154.

I've spent just over $3,000 dollars on this car so far NA, which leaves me a-lot of room to leave the competition behind.

There will always be one guy to outspend you and he'll be sofa king fast too..............

[awad]

im running 636hp on my w58 and its great so far, i dont think it'll last long thats why i just bought a v160. but still 636hp is not bad at all

[lexus2jzgte]

so simply put it how bad are you gonna beat on it, fairly hard? sell it now and get something else. If your gonna baby it around. then it may last a while.... I hope.

[94nasupra]

End of the season is coming and I never made it to an event. Hopfully next year I can push the limits of the w58 and see what it can do.

[Matty95'Coupe]

End of the season is coming and I never made it to an event. Hopfully next year I can push the limits of the w58 and see what it can do.

Do you have an LSD? Also I blew my w58 driving home from an event just cruising on the highway in fifth and it popped was 500+hp at the time... Would be cool to see how your NA does with the V160 with the 4.08's in the back... (I waited and did my rear end after I swapped the trans and the v160 with the NA gearing was ridiculously fun and the top speed seemed pretty high)

[94nasupra]

Anyone have updates on this topic from this season? I just made 543 on the w-58 on pump so I am going to finally put it to the test this upcoming season and keep the thread updated

[FLZ_Boy]

Well, my w58 survived the 2012 time trial season with roughly 200rwhp.........

[marshallpre1]

Anyone have updates on this topic from this season? I just made 543 on the w-58 on pump so I am going to finally put it to the test this upcoming season and keep the thread updated

Haha not yet. I'm keeping my SC around 300whp this season for that reason. Hope to get it ready for NJMP this May

[Silver Supra]

Well, my w58 survived the 2012 time trial season with roughly 200rwhp.........

Well, there's a data point...........lol

[Fried_rice]

My last W58 survived about 10 track days at 175 RWHP and a couple days at 400 RWHP, until the engine blew, lol. Sold that car, got an SC400, traded it for an SC300. Just swapped a 1JZ-GTE and will be running 350-400 RWHP on a supra W58 and a 3.76 LSD.

Next track day will be in two weeks at 2K13.

Thanks to all the people who have posted!