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Highest torque held on a South Bend stage 3/4 single disk?

14K views 47 replies 20 participants last post by  Wreckless 
#1 ·
The South Bend stage 3 is rated for 750ft-lb, the stage 4 is 800ft-lb.

How many of you have made 800-850wtq with one of these units without issue? How many miles are you guys getting out of these (provided you don't drag race) with 750wtq, and no more than 850wtq?
 
#2 ·
It's funny you asked this here because I am running and was running a South Bend clutch and had just changed my setup recently.

My previous setup was a 6266 on E85, 737rwhp, 686rwtq and I had a South Bend "TZ" Clutch I believe this is a stage 3 with Kevlar lining rated for 695lb-ft or something around there. I absolutely loved the clutch, it was very quiet and drove like stock and was easy to slip and held my power all day long. I was definitely not easy on it and after around ~10,000 miles on it, FSR pulled it out and it looked perfect.

I sent it back in for a rebuild to be upgraded to the stage 4, it's not listed on their website but they can do a full face ceramic, basically replacing a full face clutch with the stage 4 material and I was told it would hold my roll on racing style no problem. I upgraded the rest of my build to a 6466 with 264 cams and am putting down around 824lb-ft. This new clutch is not holding at all, not even at a lower power setting than I was running previously. I believe there may be something wrong with this one or maybe they took off too much material when resurfacing my stock flywheel but I assume that if everything were in spec this clutch should be able to hold 800 to 850wtq no problem as long as you don't launch off it at the drag strip.

Again, my TZ was absolutely fantastic but there seems to be something wrong with this current stage 4. I'll be looking into it more and will post back.
 
#3 ·
I absolutely loved the clutch, it was very quiet and drove like stock and was easy to slip and held my power all day long. I was definitely not easy on it and after around ~10,000 miles on it, FSR pulled it out and it looked perfect.
I have experienced the same with my current OFE stage 3.




I assume that if everything were in spec this clutch should be able to hold 800 to 850wtq no problem as long as you don't launch off it at the drag strip.

I just built a 10:1 motor with GSC S1's (269), will be running e98, and will probably be on a 6766. I expect to make similar tq numbers to what you recently made and have thought about going with the stage 4 as I feel confident it will hold for roll racing.
 
#4 ·
i have a SB clutch in my supra that was making right at 700tq. its showing no signs of wear and i have 3 full track days on it. It grabs a little high off the floor for my taste but im still happy with it
 
#5 ·
I had a stage 4 and it seized to the pressure plate on a street launch at around 670 WTQ. It survived the dyno and regular driving at that level but it couldn't take aggressive play. When we pulled the clutch out it was barely worn with 20k miles on it less than 5% on more than 400wtq bpu.

It was a great clutch until I went e85 single, I miss it over the RPS twin I have now which holds the power but rattles terribly and has to be driven with careful attention to be smooth. Sometimes when you just want to cruise around the RPS let's you know you forgot to pay attention with grippy bucking at low speeds.... The SB never had those issues, alas I wouldn't throw more than 500tq at it unless you plan never to launch or race on it.
 
#7 ·
Im only running just over 500rwhp on a OFE Stage 3 but it's the best clutch Ive ever run and I bet it could handle 250 more hp since it's rated at 750. I got mine 2 years ago before that option it was just stage 1,2,3 in Dual Mass or Lighweight flywheel. It seems they don't carry the OFE Clutch anymore.
 
#8 ·
their earlier clutches had a hard time disengaging at a stop. they changed something and it works much better now.
 
#9 ·
I have the stage 1 which was rated at 585 ft lbs of torque. I want to upgrade, but their torque ratings and names are all different now, which makes me a bit nervous, and I don't know which one to get anymore.
 
#12 ·
So you did obtain one after all ... Should've gotten the 750lb version in the 1st place as it's definitley streetable. This way, you could have gradually increased the power w/o worry as you have now. The disc material varies when paired with the Higher TQ PP. Give em a call !

Mine still holds fine, no issues.
 
#13 ·
It really comes down to WHERE the tq is made as to if it will hold or not. If the torque accurs earlier(as in the case with these smaller, less laggy but very powerful) setups, then a clutch that is rated at 800wtq may slip at 500wtq. Ill show an example below

A mustang clutch, pretty simple and has proven to hold XXX time and time again on a smaller 4.6. I put in what should have held the tq all day, everyday and it slipped. This was a stg 1. Switched to a stg 2, held motor just fine but would blow through on the nitrous. Switched to a stg 2.5. When I was spraying full tilt, it was all a stage 5(which was rated WELLLLLLL above what I was making) would hold a few runs before slipping. This was at 725wtq, on a clutch designed to hold 1000+ all day. By switching from a 4.6 to a 5.3, the whole tq curve shifted left(same as going to a 6266, etc..) and it simply does not hold the tq at the LOWER rpm.

I guess my point is just because it holds for one, doesnt mean it will hold for all.
 
#14 ·
I agree totally with what you're saying Brian, in regards to the curve & what Txx turbo is utilized. This would hold true to ANY clutch setup in all reality mind you on single disc setups. Lets say E85, 6466 + GSC's with mild built motor will surely add to the overall power curve. Some can't go Twin or triple so I guess finding a single that will do the job is going to be opinionated.
Smaller frame turbo setups surely do pack a punch nowadays !
 
#16 ·
Cool, glad you called them as you can see why I said give em a buzz. For ~$200 or so you get a revamped setup than buying another outright and would allow for more rated TQ. I remember you had asked me once, about 2yrs ago in NJ, to get a feel for the clutch and I said "very stock like pedal pressure". This was on my OFE Stg 3 version rated 775lb/Tq.

I would also venture twin/triple when that time comes as well for said 'upgrades' as no single will handle that abuse.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Some updates to this thread, I went with a South Bend full face feramic (not listed on their website, same material as their stage 4, 795lb-ft clutch but full face) when I upgraded the motor and went to the 6466. It held on the dyno for ~60 WOT pulls ranging from 500whp to close to 900whp/800wtq. I drove the car straight to the last roll racing event and the clutch was blowing through in every gear and was actually unable to even hold LESS power than my SB stage 2 TZ kevlar held all day long (737whp/686wtq). The lowest setting the clutch was slipping at was around 500whp/500wtq. The roll racing day ended early and at least I was able to make it home. It was odd to me because the clutch was still *extremely* grabby and did not like being slipped at all and would make the car shake if I slipped it too much, very different from the smooth engagement of the stage 2 TZ.

Did some research later and discovered these feramic clutches need a good bedding in period to deposit clutch material on the flywheel before they work well so for the next couple hundred miles I took it easy. The clutch did get better afterwards, began holding the ~800wtq for highway pulls. I never launched it but for a short period of about 4 weeks it was holding.

Recently it began slipping again and the engagement started to get higher and higher and I figured the clutch was shot. Pulled it out and this is what we found:













Now, speaking with South Bend they said without measuring it it would be difficult to say if there was something wrong with the clutch or tolerances. They did machine my flywheel at the same time so perhaps they took off too much material. Also, I'm unsure if the pressure plate was upgraded correctly as my initial impression after the install was that the clutch pedal felt lighter than when I had the kevlar TZ installed. I believe they rework the stock Toyota pressure plates for these applications.



Instead of going through the hassle I bought and installed an OS Giken R4C quad disc based on the recommendation of members here and I have to report that the car is pretty difficult to drive as compared to these South Bend single disc clutches. The OS Giken chatters under load and makes a ringing noise when the clutch pedal is depressed. It *really* dislikes being slipped and if engagement is too abrupt the entire car will buck and/or stall. I'm having a hell of a time learning how to get the car moving quickly especially when on a steep hill. Definitely not as easy to operate as I was initially led to believe on this forum but at least it's not slipping anymore.
 
#28 ·
Instead of going through the hassle I bought and installed an OS Giken R4C quad disc based on the recommendation of members here and I have to report that the car is pretty difficult to drive as compared to these South Bend single disc clutches. The OS Giken chatters under load and makes a ringing noise when the clutch pedal is depressed. It *really* dislikes being slipped and if engagement is too abrupt the entire car will buck and/or stall. I'm having a hell of a time learning how to get the car moving quickly especially when on a steep hill. Definitely not as easy to operate as I was initially led to believe on this forum but at least it's not slipping anymore.
Frank,

You have to give the R4C some time to be fully broken in. It's not a clutch for the faint of heart, I will agree, but it gets better and better over time and with continued use. There are at least two members on here that DD their cars with the R4C. I can't recall the name of one of them, but the other is fatkatsupra. I believe he DDs his Supra on Okinawa of all places. In my situation, I have had the R4C since 2004 and I had the R3C before that. Now, I have a 3.4L and that will make it a bit easier, but I have driven my car countless times back and forth to SP Engineering in that blasted bumper-to-bumper on the 60 freeway. Strangely, and this may just be my situation, but I believe the bumper-to-bumper has helped the clutch become more tractable. All said, I have had OSG clutches since 1998, so my perspective is bound to be different than most, especially for someone experiencing the clutch for the first time.

Ken.
 
#18 ·
I bought the R2CD for my Talon I hope its a great clutch! The PTT or Power Train Technology twin disk was PITA to drive and had a hell of a decel vibration. The RPS on my Supra is making more noise than I remember and my gears make noise that I dont recall since I drove it about six months ago. I was thinking of the SB as replacement in hopes it would no longer make noise. The noise just takes away from the cars beauty. The RPS hooks up really well but Im getting older and my taste has changed to fast but smooth and quite. LOL
 
#19 ·
The noise just takes away from the cars beauty. The RPS hooks up really well but Im getting older and my taste has changed to fast but smooth and quite. LOL
That's the rub. Many of us want a mature product that holds the power and allows you to launch the car now and again without the noise. If I had the budget that would be a product I'd introduce to the community, a 700 wtq clutch you can launch on and doesn't chatter like the RPS or OSG.
 
#20 ·


my clutch disk looks nothing like this.

This is the disk i have and it held 700lbs tq and about 30 passes down the track

 
#21 ·
Yes, as I stated above, this is the same material as their six puck design but on a full face and is an unlisted option that you can order when you call.

I don't know if having the six puck design would have worked better for me or not. Does your pressure plate look the same as the one I posted? It's a pretty light pedal feel, almost as light as stock.

In 5th gear I was putting down 876lb-ft at the wheels which might also explain it slipping. Is your picture after the 30 passes or before?
 
#24 ·
Wow the two disc are completely different. How smooth was the engagement and is it slipible on a launch?
 
#27 ·
sorry man i really dont know what model it is. I called SB and told them what i needed and this is what they sent
 
#29 ·
P.S. I wish you would have talked to me before purchasing the R4C. I would have clued you in on its operating characteristics so you would have had a better idea of what to expect. To my knowledge, there are only a few of us that have this clutch. That said, as as you noted, there are tradeoffs when you want to make big power with our 183 cubic inch motors. Guys want 1,000 wheel, or close to it, and want a clutch that is quiet, has stock pedal pressure, is easily slipped and modulated, lasts for 50,000 miles and costs under $2,000....

Ken.
 
#33 · (Edited)
I had stiffer pedals n my previous cars and I honestly liked it better. Stock is just to soft and so is my twin. So this is kinda off topic but I'm guessing no one wants a hpf clucth anymore? Not sure the torque rating but 900whp seems good enough for me out of a single. Iv really been considering going to that clutch to get out of the stupid noisy lightweight flywheel and a cheaper clutch to rebuild when time comes. Also I don't like the noise this clutch make when its disengaged
 
#37 ·
OP did you ever order the SB clutch? Anyone else have experience with the TZ clutch? I called and spoke to SB and they were rather helpful and made me feel confident running my current 67 cast wheel turbo at 28-30psi ~ 550-600rwtq or when I upgrade to a 6266 with 25psi ~600-650rwtq

I am torn between this clutch and just re-building my RPS Strapless twin C/C (bought used in need of a re-build).. I ran the RPS twin carbon with the old strapped plate a long time ago and it worked well but was kinda grabby and took away some pleasure of driving the car around town.. It was dead silent at 1000rpm idle.. Now I hear how the new strapless is noisy, rattles is even slightly harder to modulate.. Currently I have a WOTM/AZ clutch with a LW flywheel and it drives smoother and better than my old strapped RPS twin but still not to my liking.. You can tell its a 1000rwhp clutch made for a little track abuse but that's not my goal with this car.. I want the smoothest quietist clutch that can hold every bit of 650rwtq max with no need to hold for drag use or launching and this seems like the ticket..
 
#38 · (Edited)
^^ if your not stuck on getting a single disk then all the attributes your looking for is in the OS GIKEN Tripple disk. I had the RPS Twin disk CC strapless design and thought I liked it but like you it just took away from the civil ness of the car, making so much noise, being grabby when it's hot and down shift rev matching to keep the rear wheels from locking up. The R3C Pedel is a little stiff but not bad. If you want a softer pedal you can choose a different pressure plate than the R or use the Tilton master cylinder from Twins turbo. I have not installed my twins MC yet but will give a review once I do. I can say I am completely happy with the R3C's ability to modulate so well and little to no noise at idle. I have no track time on this clutch so I can't comment on that yet either. Cheers!
 
#39 ·
^^ if your not stuck on getting a single disk then all the attributes your looking for is in the OS GIKEN Tripple disk.
I've heard the OSG was as noisy as the RPS multi-plates. Currently an RPS owner here and was looking at the OSG but thought it to be relatively more of the same as the twin CC. Have you made a direct comparison?
 
#41 · (Edited)
The noise my clutch makes is negligible. It's only occasionally and you really have to listen for it at idle with everything off and quite surrounding. OS GIKEN told me their fly wheel absorbs more harmonics than RPS. The floater plates seem to be designed in a way to not sound like a jingle bell and the engagement on the centered iron is like butter. I've read where others have had bad experiences but I can only think it was a bad install for them. I broke mine in easy and put twenty hours of Dyno time on it making 663 ft/lbs of torque through it repeatedly then as you see in my video I did a launch with a 180' burnout and it never changed the dynamics, sound or engagement. Like I mentioned before, my only beef with the R3C was the pedal is stiffer than I would have imagined for a multi disked clutch but its not a big deal. I first put a R2CD on my Talon (i think Ken Henderson has this model on his red Supra) and liked it so much I replaced the RPS CC twin. If you think the Getrag is noisy with a multiplate clutch then you've never ridden or drove a DSM with one in installed. It's hideous! The OS GIKEN by far is one of the best parts or modifications to list ony build. if you want an easier pedal and don't plan on making a 1000hp then use one of OS GIKENS other pressure plate options.
See here for options!
http://www.osgiken.net/products.php?product=clutch_blank

If your ever in LA come by the shop and Jose will demo it for you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPEVJJwHOjY
 
#42 ·
The noise my clutch makes is negligible. It's only occasionally and you really have to listen for it at idle with everything off and quite surrounding. OS GIKEN told me their fly wheel absorbs more harmonics than RPS. The floater plates seem to be designed in a way to not sound like a jingle bell and the engagement on the centered iron is like butter. I've read where others have had bad experiences but I can only think it was a bad install for them. I broke mine in easy and put twenty hours of Dyno time on it making 663 ft/lbs of torque through it repeatedly then as you see in my video I did a launch with a 180' burnout and it never changed the dynamics, sound or engagement. Like I mentioned before, my only beef with the R3C was the pedal is stiffer than I would have imagined for a multi disked clutch but its not a big deal. I first put a R2CD on my Talon and liked it so much I replaced the RPS CC twin. If your ever in LA come by the shop and Jose will demo it for you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPEVJJwHOjY
Awesome thanks, damn was just in LA on weds but I am out there every couple of months for business. You bet I'll stop in.

The pedal won't bother me it's all the chatter. My car is much quieter than most others making 680 rwtq (3" resonated, cast mani, qsv) and I can hear it over my exhaust and it's not the image I want for the car. The first hint of trouble with this RPS and I'll consider the OSG.
 
#43 ·
Ok just let me know so we can set up the demo.
 
#44 ·
Almost a 2 year bump but I'm looking into SB clutches for my upcoming build. Power wise car will be around 700 rwhp I will say 650 tq at the most. Setup will be a S362 FMW with cast manifold and QSV so I expect power to come on early. Motor is a vvti gte. Was hoping to get some feedback from some here that have used the various single disk clutches in the last 2 years.
 
#45 ·
I made 760/661tq but usual setting was 660/630tq on SB stage 3.. Keep in mind they are underrated by about 10%... You could run the stage 3 "endurance" full face for better drivability or stage 3 drag / stage 4 and not notice much of a difference but have the headway for more power
 
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