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08-22-2006, 09:30 AM
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#1 |
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Just an old Redneck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: West Palm Beach
Age: 41
Posts: 1,947
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TPS tests new turbos, for real this time
I recently started testing some Borg Warner / Switzer / Airwerks turbos.
Here is a Dyno chart comparing a set of BB T-4 / .81ar Q trim 58mm Turbonetics to a set of T-3 /.75ar 56 mm switzers. Oh yeah, by the way, these are 2nd gear pulls through a TH400. http://www.esnips.com/web/errolsBusinessFiles I have to be honest, when I opened the box and saw these little bitty things, my reaction was, " well this is a f###@@@ joke. I was completely surprised at the results. I had expected them to come on earlier but not to carry through. We did no changes to the car or tune except to fatten it up enough through the area were these turbos came on, and to pull some timing out of an already flat map. This map is a very conservative tune with a timming map built more for gassoline then Methonal. I very easily could squeze 150 hp more out of either set with a little timing. The Switzer turbos not only made around 200 more HP through the 6000 to 6500 rpm range, but more overall hp and quite a bit more tourque. I contribute the torque increase to the turbos pushinf more air, and about 2 more psi of boost, therefore leaning out the mixture somewhat. Mind you, I do not have a wastegate on this car for small turbos like this, I just cap the outlet. With Methonal, as you start to lean it out, the Torque goes way up. The bottom line is, these turbos completely out performed bigger BB turbos from Turbonetics. The 938 HP graph is the Borge Warner. I am sold on Borg Warner stuff.
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Errol @ TPS Taken from the cult classic movie, "the ninth configuration" In order for life to have appeared spontaneously on earth, there first had to be hundreds of millions of protein molecules of the ninth configuration. But given the size of the planet Earth, do you know how long it would have taken for just one of these protein molecules to appear entirely by chance? Roughly ten to the two hundred and forty-third power billions of years. And I find that far, far more fantastic than simply believing in God. Last edited by Errol @ TPS; 08-22-2006 at 01:45 PM. |
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08-22-2006, 03:14 PM
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#2 |
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SupraForums Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SE PA
Age: 60
Posts: 7,135
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Very interesting. Thanks for doing it and sharing the results.
Now I wonder what a larger (i.e. 67mm or smaller) single BW/Switzer/Airwerks would do on a typical singled Supra. I'll hunt around, but do you know if they make a bigger turbo and how big? |
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08-22-2006, 03:42 PM
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#3 | |
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Just an old Redneck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: West Palm Beach
Age: 41
Posts: 1,947
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Bigger? Yes! Much Bigger. Apperantly you have not seen this video.
http://videos.streetfire.net/toprate...af4dd0584e.htm All of there products are outstanding. We will next be testing a 80mm or so with a couple back housing choises. Also, on the small ones, I am currently waiting on .85ar T-3 housings to see what happens. I will be testing a variety of turbos in the near future, and will post the results. I will also try to get some testing done on less modified motors, so the average street car can have better representation.You can find all the info, including compressor maps @ www.bullseyepower.com Quote:
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Errol @ TPS Taken from the cult classic movie, "the ninth configuration" In order for life to have appeared spontaneously on earth, there first had to be hundreds of millions of protein molecules of the ninth configuration. But given the size of the planet Earth, do you know how long it would have taken for just one of these protein molecules to appear entirely by chance? Roughly ten to the two hundred and forty-third power billions of years. And I find that far, far more fantastic than simply believing in God. Last edited by Errol @ TPS; 08-22-2006 at 03:47 PM. |
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08-22-2006, 04:01 PM
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#4 |
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VPC Power
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: SP400-ville
Age: 36
Posts: 1,299
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I was looking at the Bullseye website after AAP ran low 9's on the BL toyota trans. I was wondering why nobody was using these turbos. Specifically the S366 as it seemed to outperform the t88. Are they new and do these turbos bolt up to headers made for the standard kits from SP, BL etc?
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 R.I.P. Nelson Matias (1974-2008) |
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08-22-2006, 04:09 PM
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#5 | |
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Just an old Redneck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: West Palm Beach
Age: 41
Posts: 1,947
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They bolt up.
They have been around forever. They have been used in all kinds of markets, just never really marketed for performance untill recently. Vinnie Ten was running them a few years back. Borg Warner, Switzer, Holset, Airwerks, all the same company, Borg Warner. Quote:
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Errol @ TPS Taken from the cult classic movie, "the ninth configuration" In order for life to have appeared spontaneously on earth, there first had to be hundreds of millions of protein molecules of the ninth configuration. But given the size of the planet Earth, do you know how long it would have taken for just one of these protein molecules to appear entirely by chance? Roughly ten to the two hundred and forty-third power billions of years. And I find that far, far more fantastic than simply believing in God. Last edited by Errol @ TPS; 08-22-2006 at 04:11 PM. |
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08-22-2006, 04:57 PM
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#6 |
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VPC Power
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: SP400-ville
Age: 36
Posts: 1,299
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Thanks for the info.
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08-23-2006, 09:07 AM
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#7 |
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SupraForums Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan
Age: 37
Posts: 128
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We here at Bullseye Power work very close with Borg Warner's performance division. If you would like more info on any of the Borg Warner products just let me know.
Borg Warner has the best compressor design on the market hands down. Not even the ball bearing GT stuff can compete with it. The extended tips on the compressor wheel is what makes the big difference and that is what you are seeing happen on Errol's car. The turbochargers we sent him had a much smaller inducer than the Turbonetics turbos and still made more power even though they had a smaller inducer on the wheel. The way the Extended tip design works is it creates more surface area for the air to flow across on the compressor wheel. This helps create more cfm and moves more air at a higher velocity. This creates better throttle response and higher horse power.   
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08-23-2006, 09:23 AM
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#8 |
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teh DJ
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Glendale Hts, IL
Posts: 413
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interesting...hmm.....
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08-23-2006, 11:56 AM
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#9 |
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SupraForums Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: NJ
Age: 29
Posts: 304
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Brent Rau also used/uses these and makes AWESOME power with them.....Seeing these turbos in person next to a Turbonetics you could tell the Borg Warner was an awesome unit....
Errol....Good Job on doing the tests...Thanks go out to you.... Dan |
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08-24-2006, 02:23 PM
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#10 |
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SupraForums Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Philadelphia & CT
Age: 32
Posts: 1,140
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I did some searching around for pricing and what not...it looks like something that would be near a 67 in class would be around $1200-1250. Has anyone here run one of these mid size turbos on their street car...specifically the S362 or S364?
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08-24-2006, 04:24 PM
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#11 | |
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Just an old Redneck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: West Palm Beach
Age: 41
Posts: 1,947
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I can arrange to test those turbos in the neer future, and find something compatable to compare them to.
Please be patient with us, as it is a lot of work for each set up, however, do not be afraid to post a reminder. Quote:
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Errol @ TPS Taken from the cult classic movie, "the ninth configuration" In order for life to have appeared spontaneously on earth, there first had to be hundreds of millions of protein molecules of the ninth configuration. But given the size of the planet Earth, do you know how long it would have taken for just one of these protein molecules to appear entirely by chance? Roughly ten to the two hundred and forty-third power billions of years. And I find that far, far more fantastic than simply believing in God. |
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08-24-2006, 04:28 PM
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#12 |
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SupraForums Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Philadelphia & CT
Age: 32
Posts: 1,140
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Awesome, I mean if we were able to find a turbo that produced power like a 67 but spooled noticeably better, people would be all over it.
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08-24-2006, 04:47 PM
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#13 | |
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Just an old Redneck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: West Palm Beach
Age: 41
Posts: 1,947
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Taking requests.
Now that I think about it, I am taking requests for test turbos. It will take a little time, but we can dyno test just about any combination out there. If you want to see something, anything, just post it up or pm me, and we WILL to it as soon as possible.
Quote:
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Errol @ TPS Taken from the cult classic movie, "the ninth configuration" In order for life to have appeared spontaneously on earth, there first had to be hundreds of millions of protein molecules of the ninth configuration. But given the size of the planet Earth, do you know how long it would have taken for just one of these protein molecules to appear entirely by chance? Roughly ten to the two hundred and forty-third power billions of years. And I find that far, far more fantastic than simply believing in God. |
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08-24-2006, 08:26 PM
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#14 |
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Moderator
Pimp of the Southeast 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Marietta, GA
Age: 26
Posts: 3,301
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I'd personally like to see the biggest T4 flanged turbo they have
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08-25-2006, 01:05 AM
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#15 |
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SupraForums Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: southern cal
Posts: 486
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Lets see the biggest t-4 flange that they have and how much air it will move vs an 81x innovative.
Last edited by jeffreyjaime; 08-25-2006 at 08:43 AM. |
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08-25-2006, 07:54 AM
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#16 |
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SupraForums Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Philadelphia & CT
Age: 32
Posts: 1,140
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I would like to see something that is capable of making 550-700 rwhp put up against a PT67 with a .68 hot side. I'll be putting together a single setup and I was planning on going with the 67, but I might be up for trying a S362 or S364 if one can spool quicker and make as much or more power.
Last edited by JustinCT; 08-25-2006 at 10:51 AM. |
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08-25-2006, 08:26 AM
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#17 | |
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SupraForums Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: MIAMI
Age: 35
Posts: 374
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Quote:
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08-25-2006, 12:29 PM
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#18 |
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: CTU Headquarters
Posts: 16,398
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That extended tip wheel is a good thing. One of the reasons newer Mitsubishi turbos can produce more power and spool faster than some larger Garrett designs is due to the extended tips or "depth" of the wheel---you can move the same amount (or more) air with a smaller diameter wheel.
Awesome design! |
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08-30-2006, 10:59 AM
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#19 | |
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SupraForums Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan
Age: 37
Posts: 128
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Quote:
We have lots of real big T4 flanged turbochargers 80mm 88mm 91mm 95mm 106mm 112mm Some of the bigger units will be available in 6-8 weeks. |
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08-30-2006, 12:25 PM
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#20 | |
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Original Owner
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: San Jose Ca
Posts: 4,861
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Quote:
do you have anything similar to the gt35r from garrett or 61 based turbos? i wonder how much improvement of spool you guys would have |
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08-30-2006, 08:39 PM
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#21 | |
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SupraForums Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan
Age: 37
Posts: 128
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Quote:
What kinda power are you wanting to make and at what boost? What mani flange do you need and what wastegate are you running? |
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08-30-2006, 09:15 PM
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#22 | |
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SupraForums Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: North Carolina
Age: 31
Posts: 4,516
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Quote:
Jason |
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08-30-2006, 09:54 PM
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#23 | |
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SupraForums Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan
Age: 37
Posts: 128
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Quote:
At that power level the spool would be off the chart fast like...... |
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08-30-2006, 10:20 PM
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#24 | |
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The new #1 Hardtopper
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Boisex
Age: 38
Posts: 1,572
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Quote:
I just dynoed 610hp 590 tq @ 25psi on a Precision 61/.58. My Dyno Dynamics chart says I hit 14lbs. at 3850rpm with 225hp 338 tq. Iam willing to sacrifice overall hp for faster spool. I autox, so most of the time I run the car @ 18lbs. with 460-480hp on tap. Although it is nice to go to a dyno day and throw down 600hp. I plan on changing turbos this winter, looks like the S258 might be right for us. I would like to see dyno charts for the S258 and the S250 on a MKIV Supra with or without comparison to a 61/.58 turbo. |
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08-31-2006, 10:23 AM
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#25 | |
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SupraForums Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan
Age: 37
Posts: 128
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Quote:
You must have been reading my mind I was thinking you should try the S258 also. Since you autox I would be willing to work with you and let you try a few different turbine sizes. We have .55 .76 .85 all t3 flanged. |
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