DCT in MKIV Supra

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Thread: DCT in MKIV Supra

  1. #1

    DCT in MKIV Supra

    Hello all,

    I eventually want to replace the automatic transmission in my TT EU Supra but with v160/161 prices being so outrageous I have started to look for alternatives. I used to own a 2012 BMW M3 and I absolutely loved the Getrag DCT that it had. As much as I love manual transmissions DCTs are extremely responsive and fun to drive.

    I noticed that whifbitz has a conversion kit for DCTs. Does anyone have any experience with it? I did some searches but did not really come up with anything. Thoughts?

    Thank you. Link to conversion kit below.


    http://www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk/gara...onversion.html

    J

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  3. #2
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    If you can't afford a V160 then you will never be able to afford a Syveccs tuned DCT. If you add it all up it is a LOT of money. Not to mention you have to hack up your transmission tunnel.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by cwtt View Post
    If you can't afford a V160 then you will never be able to afford a Syveccs tuned DCT. If you add it all up it is a LOT of money. Not to mention you have to hack up your transmission tunnel.
    It's not that I can't afford a V160/161. It's that I can't see myself spending 10 grand for a 6 speed just because it's OEM. I am very big on getting my money's worth and I feel the V160/161s are extremely overvalued. I would much rather spend that 10 grand on a transmission that is a bit more modern and increase the vehicle's overall driving experience. My concern is longevity and issues with the DCT down the road. Has anyone here attempted the swap?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EUSup View Post
    It's not that I can't afford a V160/161. It's that I can't see myself spending 10 grand for a 6 speed just because it's OEM. I am very big on getting my money's worth and I feel the V160/161s are extremely overvalued. I would much rather spend that 10 grand on a transmission that is a bit more modern and increase the vehicle's overall driving experience. My concern is longevity and issues with the DCT down the road. Has anyone here attempted the swap?
    Do you realize how much a Syvecs costs with sensors? I have tuned them, let me tell you that for a DCT swap and tune you are WAY over $10k.... I'm just trying to be nice.

  7. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by cwtt View Post
    Do you realize how much a Syvecs costs with sensors? I have tuned them, let me tell you that for a DCT swap and tune you are WAY over $10k.... I'm just trying to be nice.
    I appreciate the concern brother. Looking at the initial costs the kit itself with all of the options (including the Syvecs ECU and sensors for a DCT setup) is 6,130 british pounds, which is about 8,000 dollars. I am serving overseas in Europe so I don't have to pay the taxes. I will be using the stock clutch and a decent M3 transmission is about 1,500 dollars. I need to modify the transmission tunnel and upgrade the oil cooler. All in all I'd say about $12,000 if I do most of the work myself? Am I way off?

  8. #6
    You would be better off with a tried and true TH400 swap if you want to stay auto or a T56 variant if you want to go manual and dont want to pay v160 prices, IMO. There just isn't enough info out there to where I would feel comfortable swapping in a BMW DCT and having someone do it right, whether in a garage or a shop. Having said that, I have no idea what the availability of parts is like across the pond. I would love to know if there are drag jags running TH400s over there. Lol.

    **disclaimer** I know nothing of the swap in particular. Maybe it is possible. I just have never heard of it. Wouldnt be my first choice.
    Last edited by MR2Supra1; 03-30-2019 at 02:28 AM.

  9. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by EUSup View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cwtt View Post
    If you can't afford a V160 then you will never be able to afford a Syveccs tuned DCT. If you add it all up it is a LOT of money. Not to mention you have to hack up your transmission tunnel.
    It's not that I can't afford a V160/161. It's that I can't see myself spending 10 grand for a 6 speed just because it's OEM. I am very big on getting my money's worth and I feel the V160/161s are extremely overvalued. I would much rather spend that 10 grand on a transmission that is a bit more modern and increase the vehicle's overall driving experience. My concern is longevity and issues with the DCT down the road. Has anyone here attempted the swap?
    just curious what you are looking to get out of your driving experience as you say. Do you want paddle shifters? Do you want a proper stick that shifts like butter? Do you want a short-throw notchy manual? Knowing your goals for the driving experience might help narrow it down for the experts that know more than me.

  10. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MR2Supra1 View Post
    You would be better off with a tried and true TH400 swap if you want to stay auto or a T56 variant if you want to go manual and dont want to pay v160 prices, IMO. There just isn't enough info out there to where I would feel comfortable swapping in a BMW DCT and having someone do it right, whether in a garage or a shop. Having said that, I have no idea what the availability of parts is like across the pond. I would love to know if there are drag jags running TH400s over there. Lol.

    **disclaimer** I know nothing of the swap in particular. Maybe it is possible. I just have never heard of it. Wouldnt be my first choice.
    I completely agree with you that there isn't enough information out there to make an informed decision on the BMW DCT swap. I am emailing the conversion kit retailer now and trying to get some background but it sounds like they are still experimenting and learning from it. TH400 would be interesting.

  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by MR2Supra1 View Post
    just curious what you are looking to get out of your driving experience as you say. Do you want paddle shifters? Do you want a proper stick that shifts like butter? Do you want a short-throw notchy manual? Knowing your goals for the driving experience might help narrow it down for the experts that know more than me.

    Honestly, I fell in love with the BMW M3's Getrag DCT back when I bought the car in 2013. I was a bit of a manual purist but after reading a few articles about dual clutch systems and a test drive I was hooked. When I saw this conversion kit it immediately peaked my interest. DCTs make daily driving super easy (stop and go traffic) and when you want to get on it you can switch it into a more aggressive shift mode or select the gears yourself without ever taking your hands off of the wheel. My Supra is at about 100K miles and while it is in excellent condition I don't plan on mothballing it and making it part of my retirement portfolio. Haha. I want to drive it and enjoy it.

  12. #10
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    look into hgt sequntial trans.. that dont have to hack up tunnel and they make a bellhousing for 2j and can be paddle shifted . they shift about same speed as dct ..

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by lexballing View Post
    look into hgt sequntial trans.. that dont have to hack up tunnel and they make a bellhousing for 2j and can be paddle shifted . they shift about same speed as dct ..
    HGT Sequentials seem like a great way to go. About the same price but hopefully more information on the install that I can use.

  14. #12
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    I'd wait for the MKV BMW box to become available from a scrapper if that is the route you want to take. You will need the aftermarket strengthened clutch packs and all you will gain is drivability.

    Take it from someone who is currently running a Syvecs S6Plus on a VVT-i tiptronic with a true DBW pedal, TB and mapped in sequential. It's not as cheap as you think.

    I looked into this swap. Hacking away at the transmission was the first thing I didn't like, the photos I have seen when this work has been carried out looks like its been done with a tin opener. Absolutely horrible!

    You would be far better off getting an OEM TT auto trans and sending it to ATF.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben_R View Post
    I'd wait for the MKV BMW box to become available from a scrapper if that is the route you want to take. You will need the aftermarket strengthened clutch packs and all you will gain is drivability.

    Take it from someone who is currently running a Syvecs S6Plus on a VVT-i tiptronic with a true DBW pedal, TB and mapped in sequential. It's not as cheap as you think.

    I looked into this swap. Hacking away at the transmission was the first thing I didn't like, the photos I have seen when this work has been carried out looks like its been done with a tin opener. Absolutely horrible!

    You would be far better off getting an OEM TT auto trans and sending it to ATF.
    Ben_R,

    Thanks for the reply. Will the MKVs DCT be that easy to use on the MKIVs? That's pretty amazing.

    Your VVT-i tiptronic setup sounds amazing. Looking back would you do it all over again? Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of modifying the transmission tunnel either.

    J

  16. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUSup View Post
    Ben_R,

    Thanks for the reply. Will the MKVs DCT be that easy to use on the MKIVs? That's pretty amazing.

    Your VVT-i tiptronic setup sounds amazing. Looking back would you do it all over again? Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of modifying the transmission tunnel either.

    J
    Absolutely no idea regarding the MKV box, I would imagine the dimensions are available somewhere on the web. I would be a nice alternative option if you are intent on going DCT.

    If the money it would cost to do the swap couldn't be put to better use anywhere else on the car and if money was no object then I *might* consider it. Unchartered territory is costly as I have found out and there is a lot more to go wrong with a modern box and it will be more expensive to fix.

    Just to confirm, I'm running the JDM tiptronic box not the BMW version/swap we are discussing. I'm happy to discuss the set up, reasons for doing what I did if that is of any interest to you and will help?

  17. #15
    Super Moderator Wreckless's Avatar
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    The MKV Zupra trans is not a dual clutch, it's an 8spd slushbox. One would be better served by a Ford 6R80 or GM 8L90 auto trans if one wanted an 8AT - that'd give you a lot more source vehicles and a lot more internal upgrade options. Nevermind that stock 6R80's have done some pretty amazing stuff in Mustangs.

    The BMW DCT swap is a fascinating option but as CWTT said, it is not cheap. But if one was going to go to the expense to really modernize the powertrain, a DCT option is the way to go by far.

    There have been a couple of older threads here on Supraforums about the Whifbitz DCT conversion, one that included first-hand feedback from a customer that had it done. Let me dig them up:

    https://www.supraforums.com/forum/sh...e-Toyota-Supra
    https://www.supraforums.com/forum/sh...DTC-in-a-supra
    Jeff
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    Quote Originally Posted by KING View Post
    Who would have ever thought.....the impact an automobile can make.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by MR2Supra1 View Post
    You would be better off with a tried and true TH400 swap if you want to stay auto or a T56 variant if you want to go manual and dont want to pay v160 prices, IMO. There just isn't enough info out there to where I would feel comfortable swapping in a BMW DCT and having someone do it right, whether in a garage or a shop. Having said that, I have no idea what the availability of parts is like across the pond. I would love to know if there are drag jags running TH400s over there. Lol.

    **disclaimer** I know nothing of the swap in particular. Maybe it is possible. I just have never heard of it. Wouldnt be my first choice.

    first, have you ever driven a supra with a th400? I suspect not, because if you had, you'd realize that a person considering a swap from the slow shifting factory 4-spd auto to a much more modern, quick-shifting DCT, will likely have little interest in swapping to an even more dated, slower shifting 3-spd auto, so the suggestion makes no sense.

    second, you then admit to knowing nothing about the swap the OP asked about, so I don't understand you post - you've (probably) never driven a th400 supra, you know nothing about the proposed DCT swap, and yet you advise the OP he'd be better of with a th400. is there any logic to this?


    look bro, welcome to supraforums! I'm glad you're here. there's nothing wrong with being new to a platform or forum and not very knowledgeable, but if that's the case, you might consider spending more time learning and less time offering advice. even more generally, offering advice on a topic you admit to knowing "nothing" about doesn't make any sense. like, none at all.


    craig
    Government cannot give anything to anybody that it doesn't first take from somebody else. Whenever somebody receives something without working for it, somebody else has to work for it without receiving. The worst thing that can happen to a nation is for half of the people to get the idea they don't have to work because somebody else will work for them, and the other half to get the idea that it does no good to work because they don't get to enjoy the fruits of their labor.
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  19. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Bush View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MR2Supra1 View Post
    You would be better off with a tried and true TH400 swap if you want to stay auto or a T56 variant if you want to go manual and dont want to pay v160 prices, IMO. There just isn't enough info out there to where I would feel comfortable swapping in a BMW DCT and having someone do it right, whether in a garage or a shop. Having said that, I have no idea what the availability of parts is like across the pond. I would love to know if there are drag jags running TH400s over there. Lol.

    **disclaimer** I know nothing of the swap in particular. Maybe it is possible. I just have never heard of it. Wouldnt be my first choice.

    first, have you ever driven a supra with a th400? I suspect not, because if you had, you'd realize that a person considering a swap from the slow shifting factory 4-spd auto to a much more modern, quick-shifting DCT, will likely have little interest in swapping to an even more dated, slower shifting 3-spd auto, so the suggestion makes no sense.

    second, you then admit to knowing nothing about the swap the OP asked about, so I don't understand you post - you've (probably) never driven a th400 supra, you know nothing about the proposed DCT swap, and yet you advise the OP he'd be better of with a th400. is there any logic to this? [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.supraforums.com/forum/images/smilies/dunno.gif[/IMG]


    look bro, welcome to supraforums! I'm glad you're here. there's nothing wrong with being new to a platform or forum and not very knowledgeable, but if that's the case, you might consider spending more time learning and less time offering advice. even more generally, offering advice on a topic you admit to knowing "nothing" about doesn't make any sense. like, none at all.


    craig
    you're right. I am out. Back to being a lurker.

  20. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckless View Post
    The MKV Zupra trans is not a dual clutch, it's an 8spd slushbox.
    Wow I didn't know that, I assumed 8 speed DCT. It just gets worse doesn't it

  21. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben_R View Post
    Absolutely no idea regarding the MKV box, I would imagine the dimensions are available somewhere on the web. I would be a nice alternative option if you are intent on going DCT.

    If the money it would cost to do the swap couldn't be put to better use anywhere else on the car and if money was no object then I *might* consider it. Unchartered territory is costly as I have found out and there is a lot more to go wrong with a modern box and it will be more expensive to fix.

    Just to confirm, I'm running the JDM tiptronic box not the BMW version/swap we are discussing. I'm happy to discuss the set up, reasons for doing what I did if that is of any interest to you and will help?
    Yeah that would be great. A tiptronic box would be pretty nice. How do you like it? Does it shift pretty quick when you need it to?

  22. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckless View Post
    The MKV Zupra trans is not a dual clutch, it's an 8spd slushbox. One would be better served by a Ford 6R80 or GM 8L90 auto trans if one wanted an 8AT - that'd give you a lot more source vehicles and a lot more internal upgrade options. Nevermind that stock 6R80's have done some pretty amazing stuff in Mustangs.

    The BMW DCT swap is a fascinating option but as CWTT said, it is not cheap. But if one was going to go to the expense to really modernize the powertrain, a DCT option is the way to go by far.

    There have been a couple of older threads here on Supraforums about the Whifbitz DCT conversion, one that included first-hand feedback from a customer that had it done. Let me dig them up:

    https://www.supraforums.com/forum/sh...e-Toyota-Supra
    https://www.supraforums.com/forum/sh...DTC-in-a-supra
    I just did a quick google search and you are right. The new Supra is rumored to be getting a DCT option in the near future but nothing official yet. Toyota just keeps dropping the ball with that car.

    Thanks for the links to the threads. I saw that first one but the second thread is new to me and full of good info.

  23. #21
    For all of those interested here is a link to a British Supra forum thread where a guy took his car to the Whifbitz shop and documented the conversion:

    http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthr...rbo-Conversion

    Another thread on the same site by the owner of Whifbitz:

    http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthr...e-Toyota-Supra
    Last edited by EUSup; 03-30-2019 at 04:51 PM. Reason: Adding Link

  24. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUSup View Post
    Yeah that would be great. A tiptronic box would be pretty nice. How do you like it? Does it shift pretty quick when you need it to?
    I like the box and believe I am right in saying the JDM tiptronic box it is the strongest version of the TT auto boxes. Sorting the gearshifts out is down to a good mapper and a capable ECU but I have no complaints at all. I would imagine once ATF work their magic things will be even faster as the box will be able to take the abuse.

  25. #23
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    The auto already has 2 pedals, right for the DCT. The manual will require 3.

    The 2-pedal setup also allows left-foot braking as does every F1/F2/F3/Indycar/LMP.

    I think the DCT is far more interesting. However, the DBW with Syvecs I believe means no cruise control. And you may need/want the expansion chassis for the Syvecs 6+. In the US, Syvecs tuners are rare, for a Supra even rarer. The only one I'm aware of seems to focus on Lamborghinis and GTRs.

    Also, is your OBDI or II? At least in NJ, OBDII cars need to plug in for an emissions inspection. With OBDI you could run any ECU.
    94 Supra TT 6-speed...bought new in '94
    Other Stuff: 05 E320 CDI, '04 S2000, '10 QX56, '97 Port City Offset Fab Chassis Late Model, '38 Buick Special

  26. #24
    Question to suit. 220's Avatar
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    Isn't PHR making the 6R80 fit?

  27. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 220 View Post
    Isn't PHR making the 6R80 fit?

    That's the rumor.

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