700ish on a unopened 2jzge long block??

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    boost'en down 101 black89t's Avatar
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    700ish on a unopened 2jzge long block??

    hey guys so i recently lost the motor in my car from a dumb mistake on my part but not going into detail on that. i got a motor to replace mine which was just a stock non vvti 2jzge with tt head gasket and arp head studs. i'm considering just trying to run the unopened long block and converting my car to run on e85. i sorta live in the middle of know where so id have to buy drums of it since there isn't a station for hours and hours away. i want to keep my car at 750whp or less because that's sorta the sweet spot for the r154, mk3 diff, and 2jz rods for long term abuse from what i've seen/experienced. i like how my car can go to the track and run 10's or hit the mountains. don't want it to be just a top speed car which is inevitable with the large frame turbo's. i've always ran 91 then sunoco 110 when i run 30ish psi boost. love the smell of that stuff mmmmm lol but seems like a lot of people prefer e85 over race gas these days. i have a s369sxe now in addition to my 64 which i plan on using when i drag race or roll race might just leave it on there all the time depending on how i like it so that's where the increase in hp will come from over my current setup.

    so am i crazy for trying to do this? to run e85 i think id need a larger feed line, another walbro 450, and injectors. i have 780's in my car right now and they were at a pretty high duty cycle with my 64 at 30psi so those will most likely get swapped out regardless. is there a more fine line with tuning a e85 car then a race gas car on high boost? i want to fix my car soon and this is the big hold up atm.



    found this sc300 that seem to handle it

    Last edited by black89t; 04-14-2019 at 05:28 PM.
    89 supra turbo 2jz na-t, hx35 @20psi 476whp/473wtq
    now s364.5 661whp/609wtq @28psi
    90 toyota pickup with 7mgte/r154 totaled :(

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    700ish on a unopened 2jzge long block??

    You could do that but the GE block is a higher compression motor compared to the GTE. I never liked using a thicker headgasket to drop CR.

    You could use the GE block and TT headgasket which will make the compression ratio lower than a NA but higher than a GTE. It has been posted on here what it is with this combo. The E85 fuel will like it but with the added torque, the R154 might not. I snapped a first gear thrust washer at around 350HP-400HP. It was a stock rebuild with new synchros and bearings, no MC parts. I did replace the new Toyota thrust washer I put in that broke with a MC one after.

    You can do those numbers but it is all in the tune and how fast they bring the torque on in it. That kills the rods.

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    boost'en down 101 black89t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoostPsiKPA View Post
    You could do that but the GE block is a higher compression motor compared to the GTE. I never liked using a thicker headgasket to drop CR.

    You could use the GE block and TT headgasket which will make the compression ratio lower than a NA but higher than a GTE. It has been posted on here what it is with this combo. The E85 fuel will like it but with the added torque, the R154 might not. I snapped a first gear thrust washer at around 350HP-400HP. It was a stock rebuild with new synchros and bearings, no MC parts. I did replace the new Toyota thrust washer I put in that broke with a MC one after.

    You can do those numbers but it is all in the tune and how fast they bring the torque on in it. That kills the rods.

    yeah i know it's higher but figured if i run e85 it might be ok? there's nothing wrong with running a thicker headgasket to drop the compression ratio that's what toyota did from the factory. if you do the tt head gasket with arp's you can run similar boost levels on the same fuel as a 2jzgte like around 18psi on 91 pump i made decent power on 110 too so i know that combo can take some power. lots of other people have too. i just don't know how well it can with 10:1 compression ratio. my thoughts were the s369 shouldn't make a ridiculous amount of torque so the rods should be fine with it at 750whp and easing the timing in can also reduce torque. i don't want to build a motor because i built a 7m and it blew the dam head gasket head bolts lost torque since the head was soft. it's a huge problem with them as you know but it really made me feel like i wasted a bunch of time and money so that's sorta why i'm obsessed with a stock motor lol. also my cars been swapped for 7 years the first motor lasted 5 years and i beat on that thing. as far as the rest of my car i have a os giken twin, mc r154, built diff, ffim, ecu master ecu, basically everything to handle the hp. i just need to decide if i should do the tt headgasket like i have in the past or try running it unopened on 10:1.
    Last edited by black89t; 04-14-2019 at 11:34 PM.

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    700 Hp on E85 on 780s won't work. not even sure 1000's would work well(close to). I am bout to start running with E85 over 94 octane. The r154 so far has held up like a champ @ 520Ft/TQ, but with E85 it's only going up.

    "You can do those numbers but it is all in the tune and how fast they bring the torque on in it"
    ^^^^x2

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    boost'en down 101 black89t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzA View Post
    700 Hp on E85 on 780s won't work. not even sure 1000's would work well(close to). I am bout to start running with E85 over 94 octane. The r154 so far has held up like a champ @ 520Ft/TQ, but with E85 it's only going up.

    "You can do those numbers but it is all in the tune and how fast they bring the torque on in it"
    ^^^^x2

    yeah i know the 780's won't work like i said those are getting changed either way. my main concern is the pistons i'm confident i can keep torque to low 600's like i have and the rods will be fine. my last motor smoked a piston so that's what i was thinking would be the issue since the higher compression ratio should have higher cylinder pressures. my gut feeling says to just do the tt headgasket and arp like most people do but sure would be nice to just leave it how it is also hahaa

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    Super Moderator Wreckless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by black89t View Post
    yeah i know the 780's won't work like i said those are getting changed either way. my main concern is the pistons i'm confident i can keep torque to low 600's like i have and the rods will be fine. my last motor smoked a piston so that's what i was thinking would be the issue since the higher compression ratio should have higher cylinder pressures. my gut feeling says to just do the tt headgasket and arp like most people do but sure would be nice to just leave it how it is also hahaa
    A friend of mine got his Formula D Pro license years ago in an SC300 running the exact same combo 2JZ-GE with a single turbo @700whp - you'll be fine so long as you've got enough injector/fuel system/etc.

    Tuning wise, E85's biggest weakness is inconsistency from pumps, which is why most folks run Ethanol sensors so you can get an E% value and adjust boost from there. Overall on good E85 (E% 65%+) things are pretty easy to tune and it'll have similar timing values as race gas. The downside is that once E85 starts detonating, it gets really ugly really really fast.
    Jeff
    "I spent a lot of money on booze, chicks and fast cars. The rest I just squandered." -- George Best
    Quote Originally Posted by KING View Post
    Who would have ever thought.....the impact an automobile can make.....

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    boost'en down 101 black89t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckless View Post
    A friend of mine got his Formula D Pro license years ago in an SC300 running the exact same combo 2JZ-GE with a single turbo @700whp - you'll be fine so long as you've got enough injector/fuel system/etc.

    Tuning wise, E85's biggest weakness is inconsistency from pumps, which is why most folks run Ethanol sensors so you can get an E% value and adjust boost from there. Overall on good E85 (E% 65%+) things are pretty easy to tune and it'll have similar timing values as race gas. The downside is that once E85 starts detonating, it gets really ugly really really fast.

    hmm well that's reassuring! you know about how long he ran it at the hp?

    if i do go with e85 i'll be getting it by the 55 gallon drum. i guess either way a ethanol sensor would be a good idea no matter where i'm getting fuel. with race gas from my experience is it's really forgiving i think that had a lot to do with how long my first motor lasted. i also have an aem methanol kit on my car that i barely used my plan with that was to use it for cooling iat and slight octane boost over the horrible pump gas we have in cali. but now that i'm changing motors out i have the option to keep it how i've had it or do the stock long block at 10:1. i'm guessing with e85 there's no use for methanol injection? my car still has the stock fuel lines and i'm not quite sure i can even make those numbers on race gas. so if i have to get injectors and fuel lines anyway converting wouldn't be too much additional work. yet if it's easier to keep the motor from blowing up running race gas i think that would be the best bet for me since i don't run on high boost all the time. basically have to be on drag radials or it's just spin city even with my 64 on high boost lol
    Last edited by black89t; 04-15-2019 at 05:40 PM.

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    Super Moderator Wreckless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by black89t View Post
    hmm well that's reassuring! you know about how long he ran it at the hp?

    if i do go with e85 i'll be getting it by the 55 gallon drum. i guess either way a ethanol sensor would be a good idea no matter where i'm getting fuel. with race gas from my experience is it's really forgiving i think that had a lot to do with how long my first motor lasted. i also have an aem methanol kit on my car that i barely used my plan with that was to use it for cooling iat and slight octane boost over the horrible pump gas we have in cali. but now that i'm changing motors out i have the option to keep it how i've had it or do the stock long block at 10:1. i'm guessing with e85 there's no use for methanol injection? my car still has the stock fuel lines and i'm not quite sure i can even make those numbers on race gas. so if i have to get injectors and fuel lines anyway converting wouldn't be too much additional work. yet if it's easier to keep the motor from blowing up running race gas i think that would be the best bet for me since i don't run on high boost all the time. basically have to be on drag radials or it's just spin city even with my 64 on high boost lol
    That car and many others have lasted a surprisingly long time on engine combos like that.
    That particular engine survived so long it was transplanted into 1 or 2 other cars IIRC. Valvoline VR1 and modest rev limit (7500rpm) FTW. Obviously any used engine as old as these will be a roll of the dice, but at least a fix is cheap.

    I wouldn't bother with meth on top of E85. Meth on top of pump gas is great stuff though but it is an additional failure point. Race gas is the best option but it's also $$$$.

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    boost'en down 101 black89t's Avatar
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    wow that's impressive after all these years i'm still amazed at how tough these jz motors are!

    after thinking about it i'm just going to do the tt headgasket and arp's simply for the fact that there will be less variables as far as tuning. also the fact that i don't run race gas that often so it's not tooooooo expensive. our drag strip has 8 events a year and i usually don't make them all. that's usually the only time i run race gas besides some occasional roll racing. i spend maybe 500 bucks a year on 110. it's 9 a gallon at our track. i feel like if i was running on high boost all the time e85 would make a lot more sense. plus if race gas is the most forgiving then it's worth it to me to spend the money on it. and did i say how much i love the smell of that stuff hahahaaa

    thanks for the reply's though it helped me with my decision! hopefully i'll have some dyno numbers soon!!
    Last edited by black89t; 04-16-2019 at 11:56 AM.

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    Couple things.

    You're fine with running Ethanol % fuels with the 10/1 stock compression. Ethanol loves compression. Just make sure you have a good tuner that can tune it for 93 and Ethanol.
    You need a flex fuel sensor-just in case you get stuck somewhere and can't get an ethanol based fuel-you never no. Also, just in case you get a batch of E85 that maybe is winter blend E70.
    If you purchase 55 gallon drums then I would consider just filling your own drums up and transporting them in a trailer. It's hard to beat $2.25/gallon. Most "race" ethanol (Ignite, VP, One brands) are $5/gallon or more. Part of the benefit of running pump E85 is the price.
    Injectors-get some 1200cc at the smallest. I made 830whp on some 1290cc PTE injectors and they were close to maxxed out. That was on stock 8.5/1 compression.
    Spark-what do you have? (coil on plug??) You may need more spark.
    Make sure your standalone has all the failsafes set up.
    Make sure your fuel system is ethanol compatible-PTE lines, 6 micron filters, etc.

    Steve K.


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    boost'en down 101 black89t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1A1 View Post
    Couple things.

    You're fine with running Ethanol % fuels with the 10/1 stock compression. Ethanol loves compression. Just make sure you have a good tuner that can tune it for 93 and Ethanol.
    You need a flex fuel sensor-just in case you get stuck somewhere and can't get an ethanol based fuel-you never no. Also, just in case you get a batch of E85 that maybe is winter blend E70.
    If you purchase 55 gallon drums then I would consider just filling your own drums up and transporting them in a trailer. It's hard to beat $2.25/gallon. Most "race" ethanol (Ignite, VP, One brands) are $5/gallon or more. Part of the benefit of running pump E85 is the price.
    Injectors-get some 1200cc at the smallest. I made 830whp on some 1290cc PTE injectors and they were close to maxxed out. That was on stock 8.5/1 compression.
    Spark-what do you have? (coil on plug??) You may need more spark.
    Make sure your standalone has all the failsafes set up.
    Make sure your fuel system is ethanol compatible-PTE lines, 6 micron filters, etc.

    Steve K.

    ^some good info there!

    like you said the main benefit of e85 is the price. i'd have to drive 4 hours one way to napa to fill barrels or order the "race" ethanol so for my situation it just doesn't make sense. i'll stick to 110 when i want to let her eat and use the meth on top of 91 for a little safety blanket when on lower boost!
    Last edited by black89t; 04-17-2019 at 11:15 AM.

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