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  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckless View Post
    The 7M is pretty easy to build to ~450-500whp, relatively speaking. That's a fun, good sounding and enjoyable power level in a MK3 and you don't need to further complicate things with twin disc clutches, different transmissions, etc at that HP level either. If you could be happy keeping it around there, stay 7M.

    But having done dozens of 1000+hp setups in a variety of domestics and 2JZ based builds - if the HP number is really what you're after, you'd be crazy to stray from the proven formulas and the 7M is anything but a proven formula for 600+whp.
    You're not building a SEMA car to showcase anything or stand out from the crowd, you're not going to make thousands on 'the gram' with pictures of your hardparked MK3, etc etc. If the HP number is what you want, then you need to make a sound game plan for 1000whp right out front and these days that means JZ, LSX, or a Coyote. Any other answer is burning a lot more $$$ than you need to be burning just for the sake of having a less reliable build that will bring complication and cost along with it. Don't let social media and youtube fuck with your head on a JZ build being 'ho hum' or normal. How many 1000whp MK3's do you see on the road, period? Hell, how many clean MK3's making 200hp? A clean MK3 is a rare car these days, and a reliable build that will get and keep you out on the road putting miles on the car is what really fucking matters.

    To that end, there's nothing wrong with enjoying the nice 7M MK3 you've got now and building it to that ~450hp level and just enjoying it. But if you really want the 1000hp, I'd do some soul-searching and strongly consider parting out the 7M stuff and going JZ.

    A 2JZ VVTi 3.0L build will be reliable at 1000whp, be streetable, and with a Grannas T56 setup behind it there's no need to fuss with the rear end or any of that stuff for highway roll-ons. Everything about tuning and building that engine combination is formulaic.
    If you do put it on the drag strip, drag radials and VHT will break anything and everything but MK3 diffs are cheap and just keep an eye out for subframe cracking/damage.
    My daily driver is already over 300 horsepower I donít want to see my mk3 under 600. As much as is depressed me Iíll look at JZs. Any of yíall want a black box AEM?


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  3. #27
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    I'll be right there with Wreckless on recommending a 2J (and I am a 7M guy), but what's your current detailed plan for the 7M?

  4. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    I'll be right there with Wreckless on recommending a 2J (and I am a 7M guy), but what's your current detailed plan for the 7M?
    Shipping my core to Top end performance in SoCal for head port and polish, cam job, upgraded valves etc, forged pistons and rods on a good lightweight crank if I can find one or have one made. Havenít looked into that yet. Upgraded (maybe twin) oil pump(s), Custom turbo manifold, precision 8586 DBB, front facing intake manifold, whatever fuel setup is necessary for E85 as well as 98 octane (my father is a VP fuels distributor thank god he hasnít retired yet.) methanol injection, no laughing gas. exhaust is currently a 3 inch straight pipe, if the exhaust Vband is wider than that on the new turbo the exhaust will be upgraded to match.

    I have this all written out somewhere. Hard to pull the detailed plan off the top of my head without forgetting a few thing.

    Also, I am an engineering student with some pretty good friends. I can very easily have billet con rods and pistons made for me. Talking to him about heads and blocks when he gets back from vacation.




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  6. #29
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    That turbo has a 4" V-Band out so you'll need to go 4" back considering your goals.

    Forged pistons and rods are available off the shelf and will be more affordable that way than trying to engineer something and have it made. Just stick with letting the companies that do this for a living do the leg work.

    CP, Wiseco, and JE will all do custom forged pistons to your spec. Off the shelf rods from Pauter and Crower (not Brian Crower or BC) will work for your goals.

    Marine Crankshaft Inc can build you a forged billet crank if you send them a sample 7M crank. They can do the whole lightening/ knife edging thing and they do this for some major companies. Their cranks are made in the US, not China like some others.

    Dry sump systems are a pain but worth looking into as the OEM pump has it's limits. Otherwise get a good reman oil pump (new ones are no longer available unless there is a dealership with one stashed in the back of the parts department) and make sure all of the clearances are tight and in spec. A dry moly coating wouldn't be a bad idea here. Or if you're feeling really industrious and don't mind dumping a ton of money into it, have your engineer buddy look into modifying the OEM pump for higher flow or build a billet pump that bolts into the stock location. It'd be cheaper to do a dry sump at this point though.

    For engine management, ditch the Series 2, assuming that's what you have based on your mention of an AEM Black box, and go with an Infinity or ProEfi unit. Both are much more refined and versatile units that are still supported. The series 2 is no longer supported by AEM so if there is any issue you're SOL.

    If you insist on staying with the 7M be prepared to fail miserably, possibly more than once. There's not a lot of knowledge out there when building them to that level so much of it is still a voodoo black magic type of deal. I've been through roughly 6 7Ms trying to get it right and much of this was back when you could get a GTE motor for ~$450. If you do in fact get serious with it you find that $20k won't be enough to get everything needed for the whole car, and putting that kind of money into it just to blow it all up is pretty disheartening. BTDT. More than once actually

    EDIT
    Just saw your post about a custom harness. If you're going to have to have someone else build it I'd recommend Tweakd Performance. They've done MKIII harnesses before so it should be a matter of giving them your specifics. I have no experience with their work as I do my own wiring.
    Last edited by Captain; 05-07-2019 at 02:12 PM.

  7. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain View Post
    That turbo has a 4" V-Band out so you'll need to go 4" back considering your goals.

    Forged pistons and rods are available off the shelf and will be more affordable that way than trying to engineer something and have it made. Just stick with letting the companies that do this for a living do the leg work.

    CP, Wiseco, and JE will all do custom forged pistons to your spec. Off the shelf rods from Pauter and Crower (not Brian Crower or BC) will work for your goals.

    Marine Crankshaft Inc can build you a forged billet crank if you send them a sample 7M crank. They can do the whole lightening/ knife edging thing and they do this for some major companies. Their cranks are made in the US, not China like some others.

    Dry sump systems are a pain but worth looking into as the OEM pump has it's limits. Otherwise get a good reman oil pump (new ones are no longer available unless there is a dealership with one stashed in the back of the parts department) and make sure all of the clearances are tight and in spec. A dry moly coating wouldn't be a bad idea here. Or if you're feeling really industrious and don't mind dumping a ton of money into it, have your engineer buddy look into modifying the OEM pump for higher flow or build a billet pump that bolts into the stock location. It'd be cheaper to do a dry sump at this point though.

    For engine management, ditch the Series 2, assuming that's what you have based on your mention of an AEM Black box, and go with an Infinity or ProEfi unit. Both are much more refined and versatile units that are still supported. The series 2 is no longer supported by AEM so if there is any issue you're SOL.

    If you insist on staying with the 7M be prepared to fail miserably, possibly more than once. There's not a lot of knowledge out there when building them to that level so much of it is still a voodoo black magic type of deal. I've been through roughly 6 7Ms trying to get it right and much of this was back when you could get a GTE motor for ~$450. If you do in fact get serious with it you find that $20k won't be enough to get everything needed for the whole car, and putting that kind of money into it just to blow it all up is pretty disheartening. BTDT. More than once actually
    Yeah I guess Iíd be better off with the same money in a 2J. Iíll just sell off my mound of 7M parts and do the swap


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  8. #31
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    I will stay with my 7M because I don't like to loose to an out dated block design with piss poor bore stroke combo, and I am stuck in my ways.
    (after all, there are still guys running flat head Fords, and Buick strait eights at Bonneville)
    Just hate to see someone get a bad taste in their mouth on their first high end build.
    You may could pull this off, being an engineering trainee, but you clearly are over thinking ahead of what you are actually up against.

    1000HP piston & rod sets are out there, although longer rod, with shorter pin heights would help the rpm limits of the stock figures.
    A single section dry sump pump, using the stock pan is an alternative to full dry sump system, less the ton of hoses, large tank, and hassle of changing oil. Although keeping the AC pump may not be possible.
    I would like to attempt a very thick main girdle with integral main caps, but nice billet main caps are already off the shelf.

    Sigma (parent company of HKS) was selling 2mm oversize valves for the 7M way back when, but required major combustion chamber reshaping. Even stock size and 1mm OS valves are shrouded with the crappy chamber they put in the 7M, and why serious Group-A 7Ms had their heads modified to look like the 2JZ/RB style chambers, go figure...

    And if you get this engine built, it will have next to zero resale value.
    No one, except someone like me would ever consider putting a 7M into a Mk4, or an IS300.
    (may be an easier sale to a MkV Supra owner, seeing they come with an old German tank motor)

    With that all said, what stash of 7M parts have you collected ?

  9. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by sixpack View Post
    I will stay with my 7M because I don't like to loose to an out dated block design with piss poor bore stroke combo, and I am stuck in my ways.
    (after all, there are still guys running flat head Fords, and Buick strait eights at Bonneville)
    Just hate to see someone get a bad taste in their mouth on their first high end build.
    You may could pull this off, being an engineering trainee, but you clearly are over thinking ahead of what you are actually up against.

    1000HP piston & rod sets are out there, although longer rod, with shorter pin heights would help the rpm limits of the stock figures.
    A single section dry sump pump, using the stock pan is an alternative to full dry sump system, less the ton of hoses, large tank, and hassle of changing oil. Although keeping the AC pump may not be possible.
    I would like to attempt a very thick main girdle with integral main caps, but nice billet main caps are already off the shelf.

    Sigma (parent company of HKS) was selling 2mm oversize valves for the 7M way back when, but required major combustion chamber reshaping. Even stock size and 1mm OS valves are shrouded with the crappy chamber they put in the 7M, and why serious Group-A 7Ms had their heads modified to look like the 2JZ/RB style chambers, go figure...

    And if you get this engine built, it will have next to zero resale value.
    No one, except someone like me would ever consider putting a 7M into a Mk4, or an IS300.
    (may be an easier sale to a MkV Supra owner, seeing they come with an old German tank motor)

    With that all said, what stash of 7M parts have you collected ?
    Well now that i think about it my ecu and intercooler loop are about the only performance things that wouldnít carry over to a 2JZ lol. But Iíve got 6 tubs full of parts, couple cylinder heads, couple sets of cams, bunch of stock takeoffs. Couple different intakes. Got an Driftmotion HKS rep wastegate I wonít carry over.


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  10. #33
    7M Fanatic sixpack's Avatar
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    What cams ?

  11. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by sixpack View Post
    What cams ?
    Oh nothing special just stock cores and a 2J set


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  12. #35
    Alright boys. Iíve already sold over $1500 in 7m parts. Halfway to 2J land. Lol. I know this has been asked 12838392837483 times, but difference between aristo and Supra big enough to matter? Saw something about the motor mounts being different?


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  13. #36
    Super Moderator Wreckless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudeogo View Post
    Alright boys. I’ve already sold over $1500 in 7m parts. Halfway to 2J land. Lol. I know this has been asked 12838392837483 times, but difference between aristo and Supra big enough to matter? Saw something about the motor mounts being different?


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    Let me bust out the spoon if it's time for spoon feeding.

    The Aristo 2JZ has a front sump oil pan and you'll need all the mid-sump parts found on the SC300 or Supra for it to clear the Supra's crossmember. That's the biggest difference. Plan on buying a new Supra water pump, timing belt set, tensioner, etc as well as a bunch of new seals for any JDM 2JZ-GTE. There are many other small but visible differences in the Aristo intake manifold, oil filter block, and many other accessories, but for the most part it won't interfere with your swap. The VVTi variant is fantastic when tuned but is much more complicated to get running on the stock ECU in most swaps. Later VVTi engine sets came with an ECU immobilizer key that will make it impossible to run on the stock ECU unless you swap it for a pre-immobilizer ECU.

    JZA70 OE or one of the many Ebay engine bracket options will work just fine, make sure to buy the correct brackets for your year range (86.5-89 or 89.5-92) and they'll use your OE engine mounts. Stock twins often require clearancing the firewall on the turbo side in LHD A70 swaps, so go single turbo from the start for less drama. Obviously, the JZ uses a different bell housing, flywheel, and other driveline parts. You can use your existing R154 and OE style single-disc clutch if you use the JZA70 bell housing and JZA70 flywheel. For 1000whp obviously you'll need a lot more than an R154 and a single disc clutch, though.
    Jeff
    "I spent a lot of money on booze, chicks and fast cars. The rest I just squandered." -- George Best
    Quote Originally Posted by KING View Post
    Who would have ever thought.....the impact an automobile can make.....

  14. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckless View Post
    Let me bust out the spoon if it's time for spoon feeding.

    The Aristo 2JZ has a front sump oil pan and you'll need all the mid-sump parts found on the SC300 or Supra for it to clear the Supra's crossmember. That's the biggest difference. Plan on buying a new Supra water pump, timing belt set, tensioner, etc as well as a bunch of new seals for any JDM 2JZ-GTE. There are many other small but visible differences in the Aristo intake manifold, oil filter block, and many other accessories, but for the most part it won't interfere with your swap. The VVTi variant is fantastic when tuned but is much more complicated to get running on the stock ECU in most swaps. Later VVTi engine sets came with an ECU immobilizer key that will make it impossible to run on the stock ECU unless you swap it for a pre-immobilizer ECU.

    JZA70 OE or one of the many Ebay engine bracket options will work just fine, make sure to buy the correct brackets for your year range (86.5-89 or 89.5-92) and they'll use your OE engine mounts. Stock twins often require clearancing the firewall on the turbo side in LHD A70 swaps, so go single turbo from the start for less drama. Obviously, the JZ uses a different bell housing, flywheel, and other driveline parts. You can use your existing R154 and OE style single-disc clutch if you use the JZA70 bell housing and JZA70 flywheel. For 1000whp obviously you'll need a lot more than an R154 and a single disc clutch, though.
    Okay. The oil pan and motor mounts were my only concern had read conflicting points of view on different forum posts and wanted to ask the repeat question first hand lol. Yeah I wonít be using the factory intake manifold, or twins, or any of that, and Iíll be using a T900 T56 Magnum. An aftermarket ECU as well. Thanks for the write up. I know itís annoying to answer a similar question several times.


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  15. #38
    Super Moderator Wreckless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudeogo View Post
    Okay. The oil pan and motor mounts were my only concern had read conflicting points of view on different forum posts and wanted to ask the repeat question first hand lol. Yeah I won’t be using the factory intake manifold, or twins, or any of that, and I’ll be using a T900 T56 Magnum. An aftermarket ECU as well. Thanks for the write up. I know it’s annoying to answer a similar question several times.


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    It's all good in the hood, man. Just take pictures and keep us posted on your build progress!

  16. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckless View Post
    It's all good in the hood, man. Just take pictures and keep us posted on your build progress!
    It will be slow going, Iím a triple major college student, but Iím hoping to get a ton done this summer


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  17. #40
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    I would have stuck with the 7M if that's what you wanted. There have been plenty of people on here over the years that have built high hp 7M's without issue that don't post on here anymore. X-man made 750rwhp on a stock 7M for years before bending a rod. Another guy who you used to post on here a lot was making close to 900rwhp on a forged 7M with no issues. Duane was making over 1000rwhp on his built 7M through an R154 . There was a local guy running mid 9's for years with his 7M powered MK3-obviously not with a R154.
    -92 supra turbo
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  18. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by MRSUPRA View Post
    I would have stuck with the 7M if that's what you wanted. There have been plenty of people on here over the years that have built high hp 7M's without issue that don't post on here anymore. X-man made 750rwhp on a stock 7M for years before bending a rod. Another guy who you used to post on here a lot was making close to 900rwhp on a forged 7M with no issues. Duane was making over 1000rwhp on his built 7M through an R154 . There was a local guy running mid 9's for years with his 7M powered MK3-obviously not with a R154.
    Yeah Iíve got some local friends that were making north of 900 with no issues whatsoever. But hey if I 2J swap I can shoot for 2000 rather than 1000. Haha.


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  19. #42
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    Well good luck. And save your money if 2000 is your goal .

  20. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by MRSUPRA View Post
    Well good luck. And save your money if 2000 is your goal .
    Oh trust me I know! Lol. The mk3 is my dream car. Like I said. I donít really care how long it takes as long as itís done to the best I can possibly do. Once I get out of college money will be zero issue. Iíll more than likely just run my own machine shop as a side gig and do all my work there. Thatís my plan anyway.


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  21. #44
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    I respectfully have to disagree with so much I have read in this thread. First off you have to understand who I am. I am a non-conformist everyone makes a right I make a left it's just the way i am. I have a 7m, because it came in the car and everybody told me I could not do what I am doing. With that being said is not my built 7m that was expensive or crazy. The money is in the supporting mods. Parts like the clutch, wastegate, the turbo itself, tires, suspension etc. I love that everyone thinks a 7m can't do what I'm doing, it lets me buy parts dirt cheap. My current long block cost me $150 and lasted about 10 years 70,000 miles and finally cracked the cylinder wall on the dyno mind you this was on the 200th pull (of 4 separate trips) on just that dyno. 45psi on a 76 and on a batchfire fueling because I'm crazy like that lol. This is on Eagle Rods and shelf stock Wiseco, a 30 year old modified stock oil pump. Stock oil pan, stock drive shaft from 1987, oh and the 30 year old AC system is still there and working also because people take it out and I never understood why we take the AC out of a car that most people only like to drive when it's hot out.

    With that being said go ahead and use the 2j. There is more available info readily available parts and people will be more willing to help you. All of you should keep in mind that this is a fun hobby keep it that way. A built engine is a disposable pleasure and just like a gold watch you don't need to have it thus making Parts expensive. You don't need to race with your wallet keep yourself in check and plan out your build with parts that make sense. If my motor pops tomorrow you won't see me crying I'll just buy another junk $100 7m and I'm back on the road.


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    852rwhp @ 37psi 77% ethanol precision 7475

  22. #45
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    +1 Quake. Had a 1JZ Supra, parted it out...why?....it was boring.

    Now have a 7M with all the trials and tribulations, again why?... Well other than clearly liking pain, it is actually interesting learning and improving things.

    If you have never put a spanner on a 7M, you don't know the painful enjoyment you are missing out on.

    The worst enemy of the 7M can be owners though, past and present. Also there are lots of fuckw*t owners that refuse to consider the 7M was fuc*k to begin with (at least in public), and requires lots of improvements to keep it running reliably....you know who you are.

  23. #46
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    /\Was the 1JZ boring because it made no power under 5K rpm's?

  24. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSUPRA View Post
    /\Was the 1JZ boring because it made no power under 5K rpm's?
    For me, boring because nothing to improve. That and I hate following the latest trends.

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