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Ford 8.8?

3K views 47 replies 10 participants last post by  Dudeogo 
#1 · (Edited)
Who has an 8.8 in their Mk3? does any company make a kit? need something that can hold up over 1000 horse.
 
#2 ·
Pretty sure no one makes a drop in kit, you'd have to do a full custom setup.

I'd recommend a good quality LSD, i.e. OS Giken, and a fresh rebuild and you should be fine. If you're really worried about it you can upgrade to Driftmotions 29 spline R&P. DM 29 spline
 
#4 ·
Please don't confuse these cars with anything out of Detroit...
First, a pig-iron V8 makes HP at a much lower RPM, which means with more torque, that shears drive line parts.
We make power with RPM, huge difference.

Seen a guy butcher a early Cressida (1JZ power) to fit a ford IRS, and broke it within a week, then parted out the car because of the mods to the sub-frame meant nothing else would fit.

Toyota 8" diff, and the Supra axles will take 1000 HP just fine.
Keep in mind, that repeated launches at a drag strip will kill ANYTHING.
Even people with more money that brains, with expensive parts in their pony cars, still break shit.
 
#5 ·
Well that should be perfect then. Will mostly see the Mexican highways so as long as it can stand up to that no big deal. I’ve just snapped 5 axles in half on my Mazdaspeed 3 now and i don’t want to deal with that on my supra. Lol. Preventative measures


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#12 ·
"Just do the full Marlin Crawler rebuild. "

For a 1000HP id invest in another platform. That build won't help with 3rd gear teeth or other shortcomings from the transmission at those power levels. Maybe the new R154 JZX100 will support that, but for how long? PGS r154 might be better option or the t56 from grannas. I'm not sold on the cd009. maybe the E46 M3 transmission?
 
#21 ·
I can't in good conscience recommend a 7M-GTE regardless of your budget.

I love them, I've been working on them for 20+ years, but without that kind of experience and knowledge base dealing with the 7M and innate understanding of its limitations and willingness to address them, I would skip it regardless of budget.

1JZ or 2JZ, with a Grannas T56, and enjoy. Seriously.
 
#22 ·
Ditto....
You can't buy parts, or pay people enough to build you a dependable high output 7M.
You have to be able to do machine work, do failure analysis, and be a part time fortune teller to get everything right the first time.

Do you even know which block is best ?
Can you recognize and correct issues induced by the majority of auto machine work places when they think they can do things their way because they have been building small block cheesy chevys since the dawn of time ?

That $20000 engine gets real expensive after you have to take it apart again.

People like Wreckless, and I have seen posts like yours over and over, and over, and few ever reach nirvana.

Just the journey is half the fun, and being thick sculled about when to move on doesn't help.
Wish the hell I had taken my first 7M out, and bought a 2JZ back in '93, and had missed out on the collection of what Burt Munro calls 'offerings to the gods of speed'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burt_Munro
 
#28 ·
Shipping my core to Top end performance in SoCal for head port and polish, cam job, upgraded valves etc, forged pistons and rods on a good lightweight crank if I can find one or have one made. Haven’t looked into that yet. Upgraded (maybe twin) oil pump(s), Custom turbo manifold, precision 8586 DBB, front facing intake manifold, whatever fuel setup is necessary for E85 as well as 98 octane (my father is a VP fuels distributor thank god he hasn’t retired yet.) methanol injection, no laughing gas. exhaust is currently a 3 inch straight pipe, if the exhaust Vband is wider than that on the new turbo the exhaust will be upgraded to match.

I have this all written out somewhere. Hard to pull the detailed plan off the top of my head without forgetting a few thing.

Also, I am an engineering student with some pretty good friends. I can very easily have billet con rods and pistons made for me. Talking to him about heads and blocks when he gets back from vacation.




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#29 · (Edited)
That turbo has a 4" V-Band out so you'll need to go 4" back considering your goals.

Forged pistons and rods are available off the shelf and will be more affordable that way than trying to engineer something and have it made. Just stick with letting the companies that do this for a living do the leg work.

CP, Wiseco, and JE will all do custom forged pistons to your spec. Off the shelf rods from Pauter and Crower (not Brian Crower or BC) will work for your goals.

Marine Crankshaft Inc can build you a forged billet crank if you send them a sample 7M crank. They can do the whole lightening/ knife edging thing and they do this for some major companies. Their cranks are made in the US, not China like some others.

Dry sump systems are a pain but worth looking into as the OEM pump has it's limits. Otherwise get a good reman oil pump (new ones are no longer available unless there is a dealership with one stashed in the back of the parts department) and make sure all of the clearances are tight and in spec. A dry moly coating wouldn't be a bad idea here. Or if you're feeling really industrious and don't mind dumping a ton of money into it, have your engineer buddy look into modifying the OEM pump for higher flow or build a billet pump that bolts into the stock location. It'd be cheaper to do a dry sump at this point though.

For engine management, ditch the Series 2, assuming that's what you have based on your mention of an AEM Black box, and go with an Infinity or ProEfi unit. Both are much more refined and versatile units that are still supported. The series 2 is no longer supported by AEM so if there is any issue you're SOL.

If you insist on staying with the 7M be prepared to fail miserably, possibly more than once. There's not a lot of knowledge out there when building them to that level so much of it is still a voodoo black magic type of deal. I've been through roughly 6 7Ms trying to get it right and much of this was back when you could get a GTE motor for ~$450. If you do in fact get serious with it you find that $20k won't be enough to get everything needed for the whole car, and putting that kind of money into it just to blow it all up is pretty disheartening. BTDT. More than once actually:(

EDIT
Just saw your post about a custom harness. If you're going to have to have someone else build it I'd recommend Tweakd Performance. They've done MKIII harnesses before so it should be a matter of giving them your specifics. I have no experience with their work as I do my own wiring.
 
#30 ·
That turbo has a 4" V-Band out so you'll need to go 4" back considering your goals.

Forged pistons and rods are available off the shelf and will be more affordable that way than trying to engineer something and have it made. Just stick with letting the companies that do this for a living do the leg work.

CP, Wiseco, and JE will all do custom forged pistons to your spec. Off the shelf rods from Pauter and Crower (not Brian Crower or BC) will work for your goals.

Marine Crankshaft Inc can build you a forged billet crank if you send them a sample 7M crank. They can do the whole lightening/ knife edging thing and they do this for some major companies. Their cranks are made in the US, not China like some others.

Dry sump systems are a pain but worth looking into as the OEM pump has it's limits. Otherwise get a good reman oil pump (new ones are no longer available unless there is a dealership with one stashed in the back of the parts department) and make sure all of the clearances are tight and in spec. A dry moly coating wouldn't be a bad idea here. Or if you're feeling really industrious and don't mind dumping a ton of money into it, have your engineer buddy look into modifying the OEM pump for higher flow or build a billet pump that bolts into the stock location. It'd be cheaper to do a dry sump at this point though.

For engine management, ditch the Series 2, assuming that's what you have based on your mention of an AEM Black box, and go with an Infinity or ProEfi unit. Both are much more refined and versatile units that are still supported. The series 2 is no longer supported by AEM so if there is any issue you're SOL.

If you insist on staying with the 7M be prepared to fail miserably, possibly more than once. There's not a lot of knowledge out there when building them to that level so much of it is still a voodoo black magic type of deal. I've been through roughly 6 7Ms trying to get it right and much of this was back when you could get a GTE motor for ~$450. If you do in fact get serious with it you find that $20k won't be enough to get everything needed for the whole car, and putting that kind of money into it just to blow it all up is pretty disheartening. BTDT. More than once actually:(
Yeah I guess I’d be better off with the same money in a 2J. I’ll just sell off my mound of 7M parts and do the swap [emoji23]


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#31 ·
I will stay with my 7M because I don't like to loose to an out dated block design with piss poor bore stroke combo, and I am stuck in my ways.
(after all, there are still guys running flat head Fords, and Buick strait eights at Bonneville)
Just hate to see someone get a bad taste in their mouth on their first high end build.
You may could pull this off, being an engineering trainee, but you clearly are over thinking ahead of what you are actually up against.

1000HP piston & rod sets are out there, although longer rod, with shorter pin heights would help the rpm limits of the stock figures.
A single section dry sump pump, using the stock pan is an alternative to full dry sump system, less the ton of hoses, large tank, and hassle of changing oil. Although keeping the AC pump may not be possible.
I would like to attempt a very thick main girdle with integral main caps, but nice billet main caps are already off the shelf.

Sigma (parent company of HKS) was selling 2mm oversize valves for the 7M way back when, but required major combustion chamber reshaping. Even stock size and 1mm OS valves are shrouded with the crappy chamber they put in the 7M, and why serious Group-A 7Ms had their heads modified to look like the 2JZ/RB style chambers, go figure...

And if you get this engine built, it will have next to zero resale value.
No one, except someone like me would ever consider putting a 7M into a Mk4, or an IS300.
(may be an easier sale to a MkV Supra owner, seeing they come with an old German tank motor)

With that all said, what stash of 7M parts have you collected ?
 
#32 ·
Well now that i think about it my ecu and intercooler loop are about the only performance things that wouldn’t carry over to a 2JZ lol. But I’ve got 6 tubs full of parts, couple cylinder heads, couple sets of cams, bunch of stock takeoffs. Couple different intakes. Got an Driftmotion HKS rep wastegate I won’t carry over.


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#35 ·
Alright boys. I’ve already sold over $1500 in 7m parts. Halfway to 2J land. Lol. I know this has been asked 12838392837483 times, but difference between aristo and Supra big enough to matter? Saw something about the motor mounts being different?


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#36 ·
Let me bust out the spoon if it's time for spoon feeding.

The Aristo 2JZ has a front sump oil pan and you'll need all the mid-sump parts found on the SC300 or Supra for it to clear the Supra's crossmember. That's the biggest difference. Plan on buying a new Supra water pump, timing belt set, tensioner, etc as well as a bunch of new seals for any JDM 2JZ-GTE. There are many other small but visible differences in the Aristo intake manifold, oil filter block, and many other accessories, but for the most part it won't interfere with your swap. The VVTi variant is fantastic when tuned but is much more complicated to get running on the stock ECU in most swaps. Later VVTi engine sets came with an ECU immobilizer key that will make it impossible to run on the stock ECU unless you swap it for a pre-immobilizer ECU.

JZA70 OE or one of the many Ebay engine bracket options will work just fine, make sure to buy the correct brackets for your year range (86.5-89 or 89.5-92) and they'll use your OE engine mounts. Stock twins often require clearancing the firewall on the turbo side in LHD A70 swaps, so go single turbo from the start for less drama. Obviously, the JZ uses a different bell housing, flywheel, and other driveline parts. You can use your existing R154 and OE style single-disc clutch if you use the JZA70 bell housing and JZA70 flywheel. For 1000whp obviously you'll need a lot more than an R154 and a single disc clutch, though.
 
#40 ·
I would have stuck with the 7M if that's what you wanted. There have been plenty of people on here over the years that have built high hp 7M's without issue that don't post on here anymore. X-man made 750rwhp on a stock 7M for years before bending a rod. Another guy who you used to post on here a lot was making close to 900rwhp on a forged 7M with no issues. Duane was making over 1000rwhp on his built 7M through an R154 . There was a local guy running mid 9's for years with his 7M powered MK3-obviously not with a R154.
 
#43 ·
Oh trust me I know! Lol. The mk3 is my dream car. Like I said. I don’t really care how long it takes as long as it’s done to the best I can possibly do. Once I get out of college money will be zero issue. I’ll more than likely just run my own machine shop as a side gig and do all my work there. That’s my plan anyway.


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#44 ·
I respectfully have to disagree with so much I have read in this thread. First off you have to understand who I am. I am a non-conformist everyone makes a right I make a left it's just the way i am. I have a 7m, because it came in the car and everybody told me I could not do what I am doing. With that being said is not my built 7m that was expensive or crazy. The money is in the supporting mods. Parts like the clutch, wastegate, the turbo itself, tires, suspension etc. I love that everyone thinks a 7m can't do what I'm doing, it lets me buy parts dirt cheap. My current long block cost me $150 and lasted about 10 years 70,000 miles and finally cracked the cylinder wall on the dyno mind you this was on the 200th pull (of 4 separate trips) on just that dyno. 45psi on a 76 and on a batchfire fueling because I'm crazy like that lol. This is on Eagle Rods and shelf stock Wiseco, a 30 year old modified stock oil pump. Stock oil pan, stock drive shaft from 1987, oh and the 30 year old AC system is still there and working also because people take it out and I never understood why we take the AC out of a car that most people only like to drive when it's hot out.

With that being said go ahead and use the 2j. There is more available info readily available parts and people will be more willing to help you. All of you should keep in mind that this is a fun hobby keep it that way. A built engine is a disposable pleasure and just like a gold watch you don't need to have it thus making Parts expensive. You don't need to race with your wallet keep yourself in check and plan out your build with parts that make sense. If my motor pops tomorrow you won't see me crying I'll just buy another junk $100 7m and I'm back on the road.
 
#45 ·
+1 Quake. Had a 1JZ Supra, parted it out...why?....it was boring.

Now have a 7M with all the trials and tribulations, again why?... Well other than clearly liking pain, it is actually interesting learning and improving things.

If you have never put a spanner on a 7M, you don't know the painful enjoyment you are missing out on.

The worst enemy of the 7M can be owners though, past and present. Also there are lots of fuckw*t owners that refuse to consider the 7M was fuc*k to begin with (at least in public), and requires lots of improvements to keep it running reliably....you know who you are.
 
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