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Stock twins replacement/upgrade - Hybrid GT28R's

855K views 4K replies 407 participants last post by  Strokercharged95GT 
#1 · (Edited)
So I've been keeping watch over the past two years (as many others have..and for longer) for hybrid turbos which retain the sequential operating system and offer significant hp gains.

Well Stu Hagen, King of the Sequential twins (not necessarily "stock" sequential twins in this case), has come up with this exact option. Below please find a link to the initial discussion from the dyno section. #49 on pg. 2 is where it gets interesting.

One beta tester already has these on. I'll let him come on board with the specifics but basically he is finishing up the plumbing and then he'll be putting them on the dyno. and doing a "how to". I will be doing the same as soon as I get my pair.

He also has a manifold which will allow these turbos to really breathe. Inner diameter of the turbo inlet is the same as the ID of the piping. 600+ on race gas should be possible with this setup.

Hopefully the guys on the "other" forum will chime in here and help this get rolling also as I've cross-linked the threads :) . Big thanks to Stu and all the others involved in this project. They add so much to the Supra community.

http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427097

http://www."theotherforum".com/vb/showthread.php?t=3834
 
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#5 ·
Subscribed. I just purchased a pair of OEM hybrid turbos tested by Stu Hagen and Aaron for my red BPU car. I did not know the possibility of hybrid GT28Rs or I might have held out for those. Be that as it may, other than a change in intake filters from HKS to Blitz, the only change on my car will be the "original" OEM hybrids, so my power gains should be representative of what one can expect with these turbos and no other changes. Of course a good tune will be necessary but I figure most going this route will have that covered.

Bonz, thanks for the PMs (you, too, Steve T.). Just want to make sure. Is the person you referenced in your original post installing the original OEM hybrids or the GT28Rs referenced in your thread title? Just trying to keep up with the anticipated flow of information. TIA,

Ken.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Ken,

He's installing the original GT28R's with his modified manifold. On another quick note I'll be going the HKS F-CON V-PRO route with these:)
With the significant gains in area under the curve on your red car and the positive results from so many I bet it will complement these quite nicely!

Brian
 
#6 ·
I'm always interested in the stock factory twins look since california has so many smog issues. I contact Stu Hagen and Aaron a while back for a set of twins but never got a respond back from Aaron.
Ken pm me if you ever decided to let them twins go, I'll be interested!
Let us know how much differance it makes. THX KXIONG

BTW STU hows your car and thanks for the quick pm.
 
#55 ·
Sorry Kou,
I must have accidentally misplaced your e-mail. Send me your address either by PM or to aaron.dziech@fuse.net and we can try again. My day job gets in the way of my turbo hobbies on a regular basis LOL.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Now..........we can get to specifics!

Over the last 4 years, there has been a lot of talk about hybrids. Few have ever come up with anything concrete. Europe and Australia have made more advancements in this area than the US. There are a couple of people in this forum who have done this. TomSid being one. Following his thread for over a year was really interesting. It ended up more of a disappointment than anything else. After spending WAY more than there value, and producing much less HP than expected, it finally died away. The saddest part was after he removed these and sold them off to another Supra owner, his car got stolen, along with the hybrids. (http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79889&page=2)

So in came Aaron, a member here, and a turbo engineer with GE. He and I collaborated and he came up with the first beta series T30 60mm turbos.
http://97supraturbo.com/New%20Turbo%27s/CT12%20OEM-Hybrid.JPG
I supplied most all the materials Aaron had the hybrids made. These are currently on my car as we speak. They have made 501 whp in Vegas, and 534 whp here where I live. Both were just about at 20psi. (all this in my original thread from a year ago). We have about 20 sets out there still being tested. There has been a 630+whp on these with an undisclosed shot. His turbos have since bit the dust (he ran them at 28psi) So the limits to these are around 22-24 psi safely. The good news is there value, the downside is they still use the OEM shaft and turbine. I have literally beat the crap out of these and they are still doing very well. 3 HPDE and several drag runs with no issues. My minimum boost is 17.6 and maximum is 22 psi. These are true "drop-in" turbos. What I mean is removing the band clamps/oil and water lines, and your done.

Then came another turbo builder who had made a trial set of turbos with a true drop in GT28R set of cartridges. These require a lot more work to install since these no longer use the band clamp installation, and do not use OEM water and Oil lines. This individual knows turbos quite well. They use the same OEM compressor housing and all other stock piping, etc. The EBV and WG actuators are modified slightly because they no longer use the same "flappers". Other than that, completely stock looking.

The first beta tester for these goes by "hammerhead" here on the forums. He has made a custom manifold that would compliment these turbos. He also is doing a mock up set of oil and water lines. Hopefully he will be done soon and provide some dynos based on his level of mods. I should have mine installed by September. We are going to make several sets for testing. Right now, I have sent in 12 sets. Hopefully there will be more interest and we can some of these out there instead of myself and hammerhead. PM me for further details.

Here again are what the GT28R look like.http://97supraturbo.com/GT28R%20Turbos/GT28R-CT12%20Conversion.pdf

These have been balanced to 24psi. They have a 33% larger shaft, and a larger Turbine. Estimate output is about 20% more than the ones I have now. This maybe a little lower with lesser mods than myself. Again, its all really unknown until more people start providing dynos, etc.

Keep in mind that these will probably be twice the cost as the ones I am currently running. So these, once marketed by someone, will be pushing the "single" cost factor. So they won't appeal to everyone. I should also mention that both these set-ups will run sequential. I cannot vouch for these new GT28R's as yet, as far as how well they perform sequential, but they are designed to run sequential. Although they could run TTC as well.

In conjunction to upgraded turbo's, I have also designed a small electronic #1 turbo boost controller that plumbs into the stock EBV VSV location. It basically will control the stock VSV to operate at different adjustable thresholds than how the OEM ECU controls it now. No extra hose routings required. It can adjust the boost levels from 10 -18 psi. Hopefully I will have these available at Speedforsale in a month or so. Just need testing.

Stu Hagen
 
#13 ·
Stu,

Do you mind if I post pictures of my turbos that I sent you wayyyyyy back?

I'd like you to compare them to what you have, I believe they are also 28r hybrids, but since I bought them 2nd hand from Japan, I'm not sure.

Let me know




Now..........we can get to specifics!

Over the last 4 years, there has been a lot of talk about hybrids. Few have every came up with anything concrete. Europe and Australia have made more advancements in this area than the US. There are a couple of people in this forum who have done this. Krister being one. Following his thread for over a year was really interesting. It ended up more of a disappointment than anything else. After spending WAY more than there value, and producing much less HP than expected, it finally died away. The saddest part was after he removed these and sold them off to another Supra owner, his car got stolen, along with the hybrids.

So in came Aaron, a member here, and a turbo engineer with GE. He and I collaborated and he came up with the first beta series T30 60mm turbos.
http://97supraturbo.com/New%20Turbo%27s/CT12%20OEM-Hybrid.JPG
I supplied most all the materials Aaron had the hybrids made. These are currently on my car as we speak. They have made 501 whp in Vegas, and 534 whp here where I live. Both were just about at 20psi. (all this in my original thread from a year ago). We have about 20 sets out there still being tested. There has been a 630+whp on these with an undisclosed shot. His turbos have since bit the dust (he ran them at 28psi) So the limits to these are around 22-24 psi safely. The good news is there value, the downside is they still use the OEM shaft and turbine. I have literally beat the crap out of these and they are still doing very well. 3 HPDE and several drag runs with no issues. My minimum boost is 17.6 and maximum is 22 psi. These are true "drop-in" turbos. What I mean is removing the band clamps/oil and water lines, and your done.

Then came another turbo builder who had made a trial set of turbos with a true drop in GT28R set of cartridges. These require a lot more work to install since these no longer use the band clamp installation, and do not use OEM water and Oil lines. This individual knows turbos quite well. They use the same OEM compressor housing and all other stock piping, etc. The EBV and WG actuators are modified slightly because they no longer use the same "flappers". Other than that, completely stock looking.

The first beta tester for these goes by "hammerhead" here on the forums. He has made a custom manifold that would compliment these turbos. He also is doing a mock up set of oil and water lines. Hopefully he will be done soon and provide some dynos based on his level of mods. I should have mine installed by September. We are going to make several sets for testing. Right now, I have sent in 12 sets. Hopefully there will be more interest and we can some of these out there instead of myself and hammerhead. PM me for further details.

Here again are what the GT28R look like.http://97supraturbo.com/GT28R%20Turbos/GT28R-CT12%20Conversion.pdf

These have been balanced to 24psi. They have a 33% larger shaft, and a larger Turbine. Estimate output is about 20% more than the ones I have now. This maybe a little lower with lesser mods than myself. Again, its all really unknown until more people start providing dynos, etc.

Keep in mind that these will probably be twice the cost as the ones I am currently running. So these, once marketed by someone, will be pushing the "single" cost factor. So they won't appeal to everyone. I should also mention that both these set-ups will run sequential. I cannot vouch for these new GT28R's as yet, as far as how well they perform sequential, but they are designed to run sequential. Although they could run TTC as well.

In conjunction to upgraded turbo's, I have also designed a small electronic #1 turbo boost controller that plumbs into the stock EBV VSV location. It basically will control the stock VSV to operate at different adjustable thresholds than how the OEM ECU controls it now. No extra hose routings required. It can adjust the boost levels from 10 -18 psi. Hopefully I will have these available at Speedforsale in a month or so. Just need testing.

Stu Hagen
 
This post has been deleted
#9 ·
Ken, I knew of these, but at that time, we werent ready to announce them. I anticipated them available later this year at the earliest. Then out of nowhere, the original purchaser of the very first set from over a year ago just surfaced "hammerhead" We did not think he was ever going to show with these installed (lol-) No offense to him what so ever. I am glad he is here now ready to chime in and provide valuable info. He may provide the manifold pics here as well.

kou xiong -- I am sorry that Aaron has not got back to you. He gets QUITE busy, and he has his own cars to deal with as well. Hopefully you will hear from him, I am sure he has not forgot about you.
 
#11 ·
Ken, I knew of these, but at that time, we werent ready to announce them. I anticipated them available later this year at the earliest. Then out of nowhere, the original purchaser of the very first set from over a year ago just surfaced "hammerhead" We did not think he was ever going to show with these installed (lol-) No offense to him what so ever. I am glad he is here now ready to chime in and provide valuable info. He may provide the manifold pics here as well.


No biggie, my friend. I think I made the smart choice for my particular circumstances. Besides, I'm sure that polished piping you sold me is good for another 10 whp or so! If I get another 1-2 years of solid BPU status from these, I will be more than happy. Thanks for all your help and for all the work you have done on behalf of the community with these hybrids. Pretty amazing stuff, I tell ya.

Ken.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Nice development. In terms of plumping around the turbos (manifold, turbo collectors), what's the major restrictions and how much hp can they support?

Too bad there are no good upgrades for the JDM CT20 as they have larger shafts. But then, the turbine would need to be replaced on those as well.

Weight is also a huge factor to me which makes single options more tempting.
 
#18 ·
hammerhead,
we have a very good contact to get castings made and machined in China ...this is quality stuff not crap like I've seen from some sources. We have several cast stainless steel valve parts that we sell and after loosing some domestic sources due to shutdowns, foundry fires, lack of interest due to our low to marginal quantities, we went with these guys and the quality of both the castings and machined pieces has been excellent ...and extremely reasonable by my estimation.

I estimate that the casting tooling for a manifold like this would be in the $2000 to $2500 range and that tooling would last many years and even thousands of sets, more than is likely in the product life. Machining seems simple with just facing the flanges properly and maybe drill/ream the bolt holes.

Anyway, if you're interested in pursuing this drop me a PM and if you already have drawings for the fabricated manifold, we can make casting drawings from that.

Maybe somebody here might even have brilliant ideas on optimizing this casting, such as angling the ports to match the head port angles (which as you know are not straight shots out) or adding brackets for other stuff ...this kind of thing would barely add cost, if any at all.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I estimate that the casting tooling for a manifold like this would be in the $2000 to $2500 range and that tooling would last many years and even thousands of sets, more than is likely in the product life. Machining seems simple with just facing the flanges properly and maybe drill/ream the bolt holes.

Sounds like a great idea if we get enough of a $$ push behind it. I'll help if this ends up seeming like a really good option in the final analysis.

Maybe somebody here might even have brilliant ideas on optimizing this casting, such as angling the ports to match the head port angles (which as you know are not straight shots out) or adding brackets for other stuff ...this kind of thing would barely add cost, if any at all.


I would like an extended through the firewall honest to god cast cup holder on mine, ok? :wavey: But seriously any flow junkies want to speak to this....see if we can optimize some things.
 
#25 ·
I would bet my mortage it's him. Same MO. Lots of one and two-word posts, 20 or more coming one right after the other fairly late in the evening, all in an effort to get to 200 posts ASAP so he can begin scamming anew. There's a new thread on him in the Buyer/Seller subforum started by Ranger but he (Ranger) is not moving fast enough, IMO. Okay, I'll stay on topic, now.

Ken.
 
#27 ·
Yes please stick to topic and boot out any posts that do not move along the information flow. I will delete my "homer simpson" post.

Consider me down for the upgrade when ever it gets opened up to group buys. I already may have a twin turbo set to throw into the upgrade mill. The reason I say "may" is because it is a turbo set where the compressors are marked CT20. I found this may be a euro or jdm turbo set. everything else looks like the CT12 twins.

Keep it going guys, I highly appreciative.
 
#28 ·
I'm in !!! Credit card waiting !!! How much for your Hybrids Stu ? And what
supporting mods would I need ? Warranty or are you still in R&D stages ?
I'm BPU and an auto BTW.

Brian
 
#29 ·
There are 2 different hybrids being talked about in this thread. Stu's hybrids, and the GT28RS hybrids...just to clarify...
 
#36 · (Edited)
The GT28RS don't fit it's the GT28R hybrid project we are discussing for the most part. The GT28RS simply have too many plumbing and other issues. Stu has more specifics on this but IIRC he already tried this right after he and Aaron300 (sic) finished the first successful milder hybrids.
 
#31 ·
Very interesting stuff guys, a UK member is currently trying a similar experiment with variable vane turbos.

Just to clarify guys as this is something I have certainly been looking at lately over the single route as I love the sequential setup, I take it the J-spec manifold will need a different set of flanges, and will the j-spec turbo's be compatible with the new internals mentioned in this thread? Also how will the stock map cope with the power hike....will and emanage be sufficient with this setup or is it worth going AEM, motec etc?
 
#32 ·
Very interesting stuff guys, a UK member is currently trying a similar experiment with variable vane turbos...

I would love to hear more about this, any links to a discussion about it?

Since they would also be a "stock twins replacement/upgrade", it seems like the application of variable vane turbo/s to the 2JZGTE might also fit into this thread but if the OP's would rather keep that subject elsewhere it's up to them.

Once the variable vane stuff is developed and applied successfully, to me it seems like it would give a great alternative to sequential setups ...though I'm not sure how the costs would compare since VVT are probably still quite expensive.
 
#34 ·
Here are pics of my gt28r dual ball bearing upgraded turbos, I sent these to Stu a while back, I don't know if he remembers. I just haven't had time to install them :/

There are also pics of an adjustable Skyline GTR wastegate




















 
#35 ·
^^^ C'mon man !!!!! Let's get those puppies on !!!!

B

ps:throw them on the TERCEL :D!!!!
 
#37 ·
Whatever...my point was there are 2 different hydrids (Stu's and Brian's) that were being discussed in this thread...So anyone inquiring as to how much needs to specify which hydrid they are talking about...
 
#39 · (Edited)
And my point is that you are attempting to clarify and in the process are muddling things up a little as well so take your whatever somewhere else not THIS THREAD. The turbo model is very relevant. Your point is as well. It was my understanding both of these are "Stu's" upgrades? And what does my name have to do with it :)

Brian
 
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