Stock twins replacement/upgrade - Hybrid GT28R's - Page 3

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 122 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 53 103 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 3037

Thread: Stock twins replacement/upgrade - Hybrid GT28R's

  1. #51
    Stock Twins King Stu Hagen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Kirkland, Wa.
    Posts
    4,337
    Quote Originally Posted by crossways View Post
    Fantastic work Stu ! I am simply in awe of your dedication. A few questions though.

    1) Have these required extra effort in terms of tuning or can the stock ECU actually adequately account for the change in airflow.

    2) On a similar note, what type of output (boost/rwhp) is capable on pump(93) vs racegas?

    I’m otherwise assuming that these are within the bounds of the stock fuel system (i.e. ~525 rwhp or so). This looks on paper like a killer street setup. The big low-end torque of the great Toyota sequential design coupled with possibly 125-130mph trap speeds.

    1) Should be PNP. Although, based on the past 4 years of people in UK and Australia, with similar set-ups, there were issues with using the proper actuators.
    There were issues whether to use modified OEM ones, or aftermarket ones designed to better fit the new turbos. We plan on the latter. That's why these are in "test". Only real way of determining is to see what happens once installed.
    IMO, no issues. I would expect about a 100-150 rpm lag way down low. Even with the ones I have now, I see a "slight" difference. The little "dip" in the seq curve at transition becomes more pronounced tho.

    2) From what I have heard so far, I would expect 450-460 on pump gas at 18psi. Although we are thinking that 20psi on pump still is doable. These are WAY more efficient, heat producing wise. But then again, it is hard to determine what the ECU will do at 20psi. As far as fuel, these for sure will approach the limits of a stock fuel system. Maybe a dual feed, and some minor stock tweaks may make things OK. But I will tell you, that these can be pushed, maybe with a shot, close to 700 whp. IMO, I wouldnt do it, but they are capable. Just like hitting 24psi on stockers, maybe not efficient 700, but non the less capable.

    Stu
    1998 TT 6 Sp Hardtop-GT28 Hybrid Turbo's-1/4 Mile [email protected]
    Aug-2015 722whp: 715TQ- Std 26psi. E85 tuned Vipec



    Technical Info/Scans & Specs Seq FAQ

  2. Remove Advertisements
    SupraForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #52
    SupraForums Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    UK
    Age
    36
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Hagen View Post
    Wow--things are progressing here.

    1) My current set up, which are Aarons hybrids, are a direct bolt up using the oem band clamps. What this means that you dont need to take off much to install these. I think it I took like 4 hours to install them. Biggest pita is the underside oil line and the banjo fitting on the block. Hard to do as a "blind" feel install. Aarons are honed machined compressor housings with a T3 wheel. Thats all. Supporting an additional 50 whp +/-. Also less money.
    Stu can the same effect be had by actually buying the turbos direct from garrett and modifying the stock manifold to suit, welding in new flanges and porting etc or is it a better idea to use the cartridge in the original stock turbos?? On the back of this, will the same work for J-spec turbos as I guess your probably using US/UK turbos?

    Are there any other things in the sequential system when doing this upgrade that need looking at? ie actuators, vsv's etc? And have you found fitting parts an issue once the new turbos are in?

    how do the vsv's cope with the change over from turbo to turbo

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Hagen View Post
    2) The initial set was made well over a year ago, maybe 2, and "hammerhead" was the guy who bought it. It has taken him all this time to get around to installing them and coming up with his own style manifold and oil/water lines.
    By own style manifold, do you mean just porting and welding in the new flange to hold the housings? How does the new setup effect flow etc, do you feel the stock manifold is up to the job of the increased flow/pressure produced

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Hagen View Post

    The 24 sets that I am doing now will most likely have all the water/oil lines premade. We are discussing the manifold issue as well. Maybe have these made.
    would you consider the lines and manifold being made a tough job Stu....this is something I have been trying to research for years and never been brave enough to try and get things underway?

    very very interesting reading
    Last edited by mikeyb10supra; 07-19-2007 at 03:00 PM.

  4. #53
    I love sequentials!
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    2,578
    Very impressive Stu!


    4 six speed turbos
    Quicksilver TT
    Blue Supra TT
    Red Supra TT
    Corolla XRS (260fwhp)

  5. Remove Advertisements
    SupraForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  6. #54
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Holmdel, New Jersey/ Harvey Cedars, NJ
    Age
    34
    Posts
    302
    Wow what an amazing post,

    Stu, I wish you the best of luck with your new hybrids, let me know how your testing ends up, I could be interested in buying a pair of these if you get all the bugs out. I Actually subscribed to those australian guys' post years ago, I would read the thread for hours, I thought what they were doing was absolutely amazing. Good luck with everything, ill be stopping back here daily.

    -Brett

  7. #55
    SupraForums Member aaron300's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Cincinnati OH
    Age
    49
    Posts
    281
    Quote Originally Posted by kou xiong View Post
    I'm always interested in the stock factory twins look since california has so many smog issues. I contact Stu Hagen and Aaron a while back for a set of twins but never got a respond back from Aaron.
    Ken pm me if you ever decided to let them twins go, I'll be interested!
    Let us know how much differance it makes. THX KXIONG

    BTW STU hows your car and thanks for the quick pm.
    Sorry Kou,
    I must have accidentally misplaced your e-mail. Send me your address either by PM or to [email protected]et and we can try again. My day job gets in the way of my turbo hobbies on a regular basis LOL.
    89T 325 RWHP
    Ported head 1mm over valves
    Probe/Eagle/Std Clevite/Titan 1.4mm
    60-1 CT26
    Lex Afm Venom 550's
    Defcon DP, Blitz Nur Spec
    Profec B Spec 2
    3.73 Torsen ('Personal' model LOL)
    20X12X3 IC ($400 home brew kit)
    Apex-i SAFC
    Haste Radiator & twin Flex-a-lites
    XTD Clutch
    Autometer AFR & FP Gages
    Aeromotive AFPR
    Trust/Grex front strut bar, Eibach Springs, ST Sway Bars
    94 Supra TT
    Profec B Spec 2
    Old school Trust/Greddy Twin 3" catback 3" DP
    02 Lexus IS300
    Revived from the depths of repo hell

  8. #56
    SupraForums Member aaron300's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Cincinnati OH
    Age
    49
    Posts
    281
    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Hagen View Post
    Wow--things are progressing here.

    1) My current set up, which are Aarons hybrids, are a direct bolt up using the oem band clamps. What this means that you dont need to take off much to install these. I think it I took like 4 hours to install them. Biggest pita is the underside oil line and the banjo fitting on the block. Hard to do as a "blind" feel install. Aarons are honed machined compressor housings with a T3 wheel. Thats all. Supporting an additional 50 whp +/-. Also less money.

    2) The BNR upgrade uses GT28R "cartridge" Which means larger turbine and larger shaft. This requires an almost complete tear down to install, Since these are entirely new cartidges, the band clamp housing is machined off and totally removed. The new install uses bolts to attach to the exhaust housing (look closer at the pics and you will see) One side note that I was in error about. These GT28R's are NOT ball bearing as I thought. After discussing this more with BNR, he reminded me that he could not install the BB ones because he would bore right thru the housings. Not enough meat for those. The initial set was made well over a year ago, maybe 2, and "hammerhead" was the guy who bought it. It has taken him all this time to get around to installing them and coming up with his own style manifold and oil/water lines.

    The 24 sets that I am doing now will most likely have all the water/oil lines premade. I am waiting for Bobby ("hammerhead") to finish everything up here in a week or so to iron out certain fitment issues. We are discussing the manifold issue as well. Maybe have these made. But cart before the horse here. He will be providing dynos, etc. very soon. These should make more power than the ones I am running now. Or at least the same, but capable to boost an additional 4 psi safely due to 33% larger shaft. (Turbo balanced to 180K or 24psi)

    I do not intend to be the overall "provider" for these. That has yet to be determined. I am only facilitating there progress and beta testing. Since I know quite a bit about the system and have provided BNR with all the cores that he needed for this initial batch. I am also doing the "correct" style of hose and fittings for the water and oil lines. i want these to be a pefect fit. We will most likely stay with the banjo style fittings as opposed to the AN style. (Not like what you see above by "turbosupra"). AN fittings sometimes have issues when removed and re applied whereas banjo's do not.

    I think the "ultimate" final package would be the oil/water lines and the manifold as a kit. But others may want just the turbos.

    3) The new electronic boost controller that I am almost finished with is designed to plug directly into the EBV VSV up top. This will have the ability to control the amount of pre-transition boost from stock (10psi) up to 18psi. No more hose rerouting, just plug and play. I just need to set up the map sensor and adjust the circuitry to be accurate to boost levels (calibrated) Once overall boost is increased over stock, it is a good idea to raise the pre-transition boost a little to match full transition boost. Similar to stock from 10-11 psi, this can be like 15-18psi.

    Stu
    Hi Stu,
    I am sorry to hear that the other turbos are not BB. I think the compressor side of my hybrids and the BNR set-up are nearly identical size wise. If you have the specs for the turbine let me know, as that will be the primary difference in the turbos. The bigger shaft without ball bearings will be more durable, but the spool up may not be as good if the journal diameters are bigger as well. Hammerhead's mani looks like a pretty sweet upgrade as well. It would be interesting to see how much of gain can be had from the mani alone.
    Regards,
    Aaron

  9. #57
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    in the casino. LV
    Age
    38
    Posts
    158
    Aaron300
    If I had more time, I would have swapped the manifold onto the stock shitters. On Pump they made 458/478. That was enough to put 3550 down the track in the 11.2/11.3's(6spd)

    Stu
    We need to talk about this Boost controller you are working on. I do not run my car seq for traction issues. The car flat out hooks way harder and better TTC. But I do miss the Seq. Im gonna need to pick your brain a bit on this. To make this a true bolt in job we may need the help of Cowboy Bebop to make a Billet Oil return flange with 5/8" Connections since the "BNR" Center section uses 5/8" returns and OEM is 7/8"

    -or-

    Maybe it would be easier to make 7/8" Drains for the "BNR" center section. I think 7/8" is way overkill though.

    Ill have to attach some other pics I have of the oiling setup. Pics are at work.

    Its late, im tired, All of the above... May make no sense...

  10. #58
    I love sequentials!
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    2,578
    What's theotherforum?




    Quote Originally Posted by bonz View Post
    So I've been keeping watch over the past two years (as many others have..and for longer) for hybrid turbos which retain the sequential operating system and offer significant hp gains.

    Well Stu Hagen, King of the Sequential twins (not necessarily "stock" sequential twins in this case), has come up with this exact option. Below please find a link to the initial discussion from the dyno section. #49 on pg. 2 is where it gets interesting.

    One beta tester already has these on. I'll let him come on board with the specifics but basically he is finishing up the plumbing and then he'll be putting them on the dyno. and doing a "how to". I will be doing the same as soon as I get my pair.

    He also has a manifold which will allow these turbos to really breathe. Inner diameter of the turbo inlet is the same as the ID of the piping. 600+ on race gas should be possible with this setup.

    Hopefully the guys on the "other" forum will chime in here and help this get rolling also as I've cross-linked the threads . Big thanks to Stu and all the others involved in this project. They add so much to the Supra community.

    https://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427097

    http://www."theotherforum".com/vb/showthread.php?t=3834

  11. #59
    GO 'Cats! bonz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Austin/South Padre Island, TX
    Posts
    1,001
    MKIVFORUMS.com

  12. #60
    Stock Twins King Stu Hagen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Kirkland, Wa.
    Posts
    4,337
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb10supra View Post
    Stu can the same effect be had by actually buying the turbos direct from garrett and modifying the stock manifold to suit, welding in new flanges and porting etc or is it a better idea to use the cartridge in the original stock turbos?? On the back of this, will the same work for J-spec turbos as I guess your probably using US/UK turbos?
    J Spec requires a comlete USDM swap. I wouldnt guarantee you would get what you want by buying directly from Garrett. Much better off dealing with a turbo builder. Besides, there are concerns on getting the correct balances and the proper alignments.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb10supra View Post
    Are there any other things in the sequential system when doing this upgrade that need looking at? ie actuators, vsv's etc? And have you found fitting parts an issue once the new turbos are in?
    Shouldnt be any issues. Except possibly actuators.We are still testing these to insure they work properly under seq operation.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb10supra View Post
    how do the vsv's cope with the change over from turbo to turbo.
    These are an electronic fed items by the ECU. I dont see that there will be any issues. They react to manifold pressure by the ECU.


    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb10supra View Post
    By own style manifold, do you mean just porting and welding in the new flange to hold the housings? How does the new setup effect flow etc, do you feel the stock manifold is up to the job of the increased flow/pressure produced.
    See below "hammerheads" custom made manifold. Something like this will make these, or even stockers, work a lot better, flow wise.





    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb10supra View Post
    would you consider the lines and manifold being made a tough job Stu....this is something I have been trying to research for years and never been brave enough to try and get things underway?
    Read "hammerheads" response to this. Difficult-----no, detailed------yes. Important-------yes, in doing them correctly.



    Hope these answers help~!

  13. #61
    SupraForums Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Cerritos, CA
    Posts
    1,355
    Stu,

    Like everyone else, I have been following this project of yours for some time and am very happy to see you getting near the end of your quest.

    I have the AEM on my car, so would this be a benefit or detraction for this setup? I would think it would be fine, but I haven't seen it addressed specifcallly.

    Thanks.

  14. #62
    Stock Twins King Stu Hagen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Kirkland, Wa.
    Posts
    4,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    Stu,

    Like everyone else, I have been following this project of yours for some time and am very happy to see you getting near the end of your quest.

    I have the AEM on my car, so would this be a benefit or detraction for this setup? I would think it would be fine, but I haven't seen it addressed specifcallly.

    Thanks.
    Actually, just in the last year or so we are seeing more AEM's now on twins. KBlake recently had good luck pooping up the HP just by the AEM. I also think that the AEM would be a benefit. You can control the VSV's with the AEM. This could be a + in this case. Surely not a detraction IMO.

    Stu

  15. #63
    GO 'Cats! bonz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Austin/South Padre Island, TX
    Posts
    1,001
    I think I'll run 264 cams with the GT28R's. How about the rest of you? What rpm's will they "run out of wind" up top with Hammerhead's manifold I wonder? Waiting for dyno. results eagerly

  16. #64
    SupraForums Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    La Mirada, CA
    Age
    30
    Posts
    704
    cant wait till this is done. I hope a full write up on how to do this will be posted. Like what to do and everything you need.

  17. #65
    SupraForums Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    2,103
    i just skimmed through the posts,has there been any talk of pricing yet?

  18. #66
    GO 'Cats! bonz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Austin/South Padre Island, TX
    Posts
    1,001
    Quote Originally Posted by virgogasm View Post
    i just skimmed through the posts,has there been any talk of pricing yet?
    Can't talk of $$ unless a moderator approves it so best to save that type of thing for PM for now.
    I could give a S#$% what THEY say. I actually have never found THEM.

  19. #67
    Administrator
    Number One Hardtopper
    Steve Theodore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    North Bend, WA
    Age
    45
    Posts
    17,206
    Blog Entries
    1
    It won't be approved...please keep it to PMs.

    However, if someone can get MVPMotorsports to sell these as a product, you're on.

  20. #68
    SupraForums Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Lehigh Acres, FL
    Age
    30
    Posts
    1,721
    I am also interested in finding out how much they would be. For me it would have to be at least 6 months before im ready to do this, my supra is the DD so I will need to buy something else to drive while its down.

  21. #69
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ocean Co.
    Age
    39
    Posts
    725
    interested in hybrid twins with "new" cast manifold if possible, keep us updated.

  22. #70
    I love sequentials!
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    2,578
    Haha, the tercel wouldn't know what to do with itself, and certainly wouldn't get 40mpg anymore, that's for sure

    Install party?





    Quote Originally Posted by $9ktt View Post
    ^^^ C'mon man !!!!! Let's get those puppies on !!!!

    B

    ps:throw them on the TERCEL !!!!

  23. #71
    GO 'Cats! bonz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Austin/South Padre Island, TX
    Posts
    1,001
    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Hagen View Post
    Actually, just in the last year or so we are seeing more AEM's now on twins. KBlake recently had good luck pooping up the HP just by the AEM. I also think that the AEM would be a benefit. You can control the VSV's with the AEM. This could be a + in this case. Surely not a detraction IMO.

    Stu

    Maybe Ken Henderson can speak to the V-Pro along these lines as well.

    Stu,
    Will we need to upgrade the Sequential valving system a little with the GT28R's?

  24. #72
    Banned KBlake's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Portland Oregon
    Age
    50
    Posts
    752
    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Hagen View Post
    Actually, just in the last year or so we are seeing more AEM's now on twins. KBlake recently had good luck pooping up the HP just by the AEM. I also think that the AEM would be a benefit. You can control the VSV's with the AEM. This could be a + in this case. Surely not a detraction IMO.

    Stu

    I agree. Using the AEM, you can control what RPM the transition occurs at. I suspect with the larger 28RS upgrades, you might want to stay on #1 longer (since it won't run out of breath as early) before transitioning in #2.

    Ken

  25. #73
    Cartographer John Reed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Age
    43
    Posts
    2,887
    Quote Originally Posted by bonz View Post
    Maybe Ken Henderson can speak to the V-Pro along these lines as well.
    Well I am not KenH, but any gains that have been realized on a stock twin car by using an AEM for tuning will also be realized by using a VPro to do the tuning. The differences in the systems have nothing to do with the power they can both make when they are both properly tuned.

  26. #74
    GO 'Cats! bonz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Austin/South Padre Island, TX
    Posts
    1,001
    Quote Originally Posted by John Reed View Post
    Well I am not KenH, but any gains that have been realized on a stock twin car by using an AEM for tuning will also be realized by using a VPro to do the tuning. The differences in the systems have nothing to do with the power they can both make when they are both properly tuned.
    Thanks. I completely agree as far as power is concerned. I should have been more clear. I am wondering about the VSV control with the V-PRO and if Ken or anyone else with the V-PRO can comment.

    Brian

  27. #75
    SupraForums Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    13
    Stu Hagan,

    Any way for me to get a set of the modified turbos that you started on last year?



    Wayne

+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 122 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 53 103 ... LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

List your Car(s)

Where you live

Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Your Supra's Vehichle Identification Number (Not visible to the public)

Log-in

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •