thoughts on C2 R.I.P. Ammo?

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    SupraForums Member rex03's Avatar
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    thoughts on C2 R.I.P. Ammo?

    Just saw this, and they go on sale 01Feb14. I'm thinking they will be quickly outlawed, and go the way of the black talon rounds. This will definitely stay some controversy...but then again they named them R.I.P.
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    Black Talons were not outlawed, and to an extent they are still made in their "Ranger" line. I don't see these as being a great option with all the "tails" flying everywhere. They look neat though.
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    NFA Pimp G's Avatar
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    Dem are cop killa boolits

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    interesting. think it's G2 though, not C2.


    http://bearingarms.com/g2-researchs-...er-need-um-no/
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    SupraForums Member rex03's Avatar
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    Damn autocorrect...yes, it's g2. I don't know why that got typed. Thanks for correcting.

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    SupraForums Member rex03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Bush View Post
    interesting. think it's G2 though, not C2.


    http://bearingarms.com/g2-researchs-...er-need-um-no/
    That's a good article. Some similar thoughts that I had but he definitely said it well. I'd like to know what he thinks from actual use rather as an observer though. It's easy to judge something from watching a few videos, it's quite another to form opinion from spring the rounds and comparing. My thoughts are that like tried and true hollow points... Gold Dots being my preferred.

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    ^^^ agreed. i don't have much 1st hand experience, but my reading suggests the Speer is a respected, top-tier cartridge.

    did you hear in the video they say future development plans include a 12 ga slug round? that raised my eyebrows - that'd be a mean looking slug!


    craig

  10. #8
    SupraForums Member rex03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Bush View Post
    ^^^ agreed. i don't have much 1st hand experience, but my reading suggests the Speer is a respected, top-tier cartridge.

    did you hear in the video they say future development plans include a 12 ga slug round? that raised my eyebrows - that'd be a mean looking slug!


    craig
    Yeah, I read that too. I thought that may be interesting and actually may be effective. All that energy in a slug, then fragments....may be useful. The design of the projectile is quite interesting looking so I'd imagine they will put that flare into the slug as well.

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    Token Black Fry Ian333's Avatar
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    Seems like a novelty to me. Sounds like it'll be about as effective as using bird shot as a defensive round. Too little, too light to put down an intruder. It'll just cause a bunch of wounds so said intruder can come back a month later and sue you out of the house he was breaking into in the first place.

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    SupraForums Member fchb25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian333 View Post
    Seems like a novelty to me. Sounds like it'll be about as effective as using bird shot as a defensive round. Too little, too light to put down an intruder. It'll just cause a bunch of wounds so said intruder can come back a month later and sue you out of the house he was breaking into in the first place.
    The point to these is no matter where you hit them you WILL hit a vital organ. I read somewhere that it will have a 6" diameter. It's hard to find a 6" circle in your torso that has the area to miss vital organs. Also it effectivly acts as shrapnel, and the deadliest part about shrapnel is the body. What I mean by that is that the body will ALWAYS try and heal itself by pushing anything bad out. So if you have 9 shards of copper inside of you and you do not get them surgically removed then your body will actually push them into organs in an effort to push them out of your body. They don't just get trapped in the spot they were embedded, they constantly move around. I for one am not a fan of that happening inside me haha


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    T88 YOU supradupaflyguy's Avatar
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    I think rounds like this will only hurt our already threatened gun rights. Libtards will just use this as proof that weapons are used to kill people rather than for sport and defense. I honestly don't see any need for this bullet, at all. A 45 caliber bullet is already plenty to stop someone from attacking you.
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    SupraForums Member rex03's Avatar
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    Any idea on what this would do to the barrel or if it would leave anything at all? Then again I don't see putting a lot of these rounds through the gun either way. Maybe a couple to see what it would do, then only as a defense round.... but I'm hard pressed to change out the hollow points

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    Super Moderator Wreckless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fchb25 View Post
    The point to these is no matter where you hit them you WILL hit a vital organ. I read somewhere that it will have a 6" diameter. It's hard to find a 6" circle in your torso that has the area to miss vital organs. Also it effectivly acts as shrapnel, and the deadliest part about shrapnel is the body. What I mean by that is that the body will ALWAYS try and heal itself by pushing anything bad out. So if you have 9 shards of copper inside of you and you do not get them surgically removed then your body will actually push them into organs in an effort to push them out of your body. They don't just get trapped in the spot they were embedded, they constantly move around. I for one am not a fan of that happening inside me haha
    Which is great if you'd like a glancing hit to be eventually lethal without first-world medical care. But that tends to be the case for virtually all torso gunshot wounds that hit the lungs, liver, or digestive tract anyway.
    'Eventually lethal' isn't going to stop a PCP pumped assailant - a penetrating effective hit to bone or the CNS is what does the trick, and that's best done with judicious marksmanship and bonded JHP's.

    The overwhelming abundance of bonded JHP's in duty ammunition is not an accident or coincidence. It's the result of a LOT of testing that concluded that deep penetration & projectile mass retention are every bit as important as consistent expansion. That's why Winchester Rangers, Speed Gold Dots, etc are found in the duty firearms of literally every single LE agency in the US and the vast majority of LE agencies in Europe.

    Similar concepts to this 'RIP' ammo have come and gone to include the Glasers, MagSafe, etc.

    What's worse, and what should be anyone's first clue, is that instead of showing the data for good mass retention, penetration, etc in a conclusive and empirical way that's favorable when compared to other established duty loads like Gold Dots - they show a bunch of Billy-Mays level mallninja bullshit, like G18 mag dumps into clearly too-soft ballistic gelatin and shooting balloons and watermelons and shit.
    Sure, I love the slowmo camera shots of that stuff. But this shit is cut of the exact same cloth as the .45LC/.410 revolvers, and will appeal to the same sort of armchair warriors, fudds, and mall ninjas that horribly embarrass themselves at shooting ranges, and won't be caught dead in a professionally-instructed self defense or shooting class.

    Nevermind the utter lunacy of choosing this as self-defense ammo - if a trial against you shows that video to a jury, that same marketing rhetoric & BS will have a profoundly negative affect on the outcome of your case.

    Quote Originally Posted by rex03 View Post
    Any idea on what this would do to the barrel or if it would leave anything at all? Then again I don't see putting a lot of these rounds through the gun either way. Maybe a couple to see what it would do, then only as a defense round.... but I'm hard pressed to change out the hollow points
    That's actually the one thing they got right in the design of this ammo - pure copper is the single best substance for a consistent & uniform projectile that is utterly safe to gun barrels. Typical bullet jackets are either pure copper or an alloy called guilding metal which is mostly copper with a little bit of tin.
    The .375 & .408 Chey-Tac and other extreme-precision long distance rifles all use CNC machined copper projectiles to extract the maximum projectile consistency possible in combination with being the least harmful to the barrel throat & rifling.

    On the flipside, the so-called 'bimetal' bullet jackets that are steel/copper alloys and usually found in cheap former-Soviet state produced ammunition such as Wolf, Brown Bear, Tula, etc is absolutely terrible for barrel life:

    http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bras...el-cased-ammo/

    The big 'takeaway' from that test is that the steel cases are fine - it's the bimetal bullet jacket that is horrible to your firearms.
    Last edited by Wreckless; 01-27-2014 at 10:35 AM.
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    Token Black Fry Ian333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fchb25 View Post
    The point to these is no matter where you hit them you WILL hit a vital organ. I read somewhere that it will have a 6" diameter. It's hard to find a 6" circle in your torso that has the area to miss vital organs. Also it effectivly acts as shrapnel, and the deadliest part about shrapnel is the body. What I mean by that is that the body will ALWAYS try and heal itself by pushing anything bad out. So if you have 9 shards of copper inside of you and you do not get them surgically removed then your body will actually push them into organs in an effort to push them out of your body. They don't just get trapped in the spot they were embedded, they constantly move around. I for one am not a fan of that happening inside me haha
    You need to read up on ballistics. Who cares if it spreads to 6" diameter if a 1/16" piece of metal only penetrates 2-3". It's no different than people thinking birdshot is an effective round just because "you don't even gotta aim". spread doesn't mean shit if the parts that do hit, don't hit with enough force to create good penetration and create a deep wound channel. Shooting someone in a defensive situation is about ending the threat permanently and as fast as possible, not causing mortal wounding.

  17. #15
    daredevil racecar builder Dachande's Avatar
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    Shot placement is more important than scary looking ammo.

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    SF Contributing Member John79's Avatar
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    No thanks. I also think, if you used these in a self defense situation, a prosecutor may decide to be a real dick about it when reviewing the case.

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    SupraForums Member fchb25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian333 View Post
    You need to read up on ballistics. Who cares if it spreads to 6" diameter if a 1/16" piece of metal only penetrates 2-3". It's no different than people thinking birdshot is an effective round just because "you don't even gotta aim". spread doesn't mean shit if the parts that do hit, don't hit with enough force to create good penetration and create a deep wound channel. Shooting someone in a defensive situation is about ending the threat permanently and as fast as possible, not causing mortal wounding.
    I'm not saying that's what I do/would use in a self defense type situation. I agree I would much rather use a larger caliber with more stopping power to end things quickly. I am simply telling you what I read on it... and AGAIN I would like to point out if it DOES work as described, I still don't want to be shot with them (I guess I don't want to be shot period so I guess that point was moot). And to further agree with other posts I think it would be a pointless self defense round as I believe that it would make your defense arguement much harder in court.
    Last edited by fchb25; 01-30-2014 at 06:38 AM.

  20. #18
    Super Moderator Wreckless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dachande View Post
    Shot placement is more important than scary looking ammo.
    Quoted for truth

  21. #19
    daredevil racecar builder Dachande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesSipe View Post
    C2 R.I.P. Ammo is good ammunition.
    if youre a fgt

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    ^^^

  23. #21
    I wouldnt use that as defensive ammo. Sticking with them Hornady stuff.

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