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8 second 6 speed member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,

Anyone built a 1400 HP engine lately???
Im upgrading to a gt55 on a drag/dyno MKIV supra and need to make a decision on cams.

With that much air flow which cam should I choose? I thought a Crower 284/292 combo.

but would rather get help from someone who has direct knowledge of the best cams at that power.
 

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I told my power goals to Justin Nenni (im building 3.4 w/GT55 and n2o) and was recommended to stick with HKS 280s.
 

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you should try cranes ther are better than hks ones(my opinion) but you need some head modifications to use this high lift cams

and you'll have nice lope sound:D
 

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8 second 6 speed member
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
you should try cranes ther are better than hks ones(my opinion) but you need some head modifications to use this high lift cams

and you'll have nice lope sound:D
My heads have been ported and valve springs and retainers hvae been upgraded. What else needs to be done to fit a big set of CRANE CAMS.
 

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If you want to keep things simple, run 280's, if you want the best cam, JUN high lift.
 

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Most are sticking with 280's
 

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HKS will make over 1500 rwhp and run 7.80's. PROVEN
 

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T88 YOU
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honestly the hks cams are overated. they are good for a stock engine car beacause they wont make a bone stock motor interference. i had the 280s in my car and though the lopey idle made them sound nasty, they have the same lift as the 272s, they dont have the lift to compare to a cam such as the crane/crower/juns. i am going with the jun 272s, they have 1.5mm more lift than the hks cams. the cranes have proven to gain in excess of 75hp over the hks cams and im willing to bet the juns arent far behind that.
 

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^^^Did you even read the post above yours?

Ken.
 

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^^^Did you even read the post above yours?

Ken.
You know how it goes on SF, Ken.

Seems like a lot of people are disagreeing with some of the best of the best when it comes to building our cars for high HP.. Chris Johnson has posted in this thread, Justin Nenni recommended HKS 280s over the other cams mentioned in this thread when I asked him about it, told me flat out to not worry about Crowers, Cranes, etc, stick with HKS 280s, he's seen the best results with those... I was planning on running the big Cranes until my conversation with him..

Here's what I would like to know. Has anyone done any back-to-back comparisons that can be shared to actually see what is gained and lost (there is something lost somewhere, just like there is no magic turbo, there's no magic cams either, always a trade-off) with the HKS cams vs the others, or is this all typical "jump on the bandwagon" because someone claims something is better than the other... but then its never proven/backed up?

-Chris
 

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i dont think anyone has done back to back tests with these cams.. i think the general consensus is that our motors love big lift and since the cranes and juns offer the biggest lift of all, there should be no problem with them making more power than the standard hks cams..

i think what chris and justin are trying to say is that this is all in theory.. the HKS works for them and does what it needs to do so they dont need to switch out or test anything else.. i think the HKS is a great choice if you are looking for regular drop in cams.. but when you start dealing with big lift cams, theres a lot more modification to the head that is required for the cams to work as opposed to the standard hks
 

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Im sure the Cranes are great for peak HP but at what cost to powerband?
 

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8 second 6 speed member
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Not positive but didn't SP do some sort of testing with these???
I have emailed the Guys at SP-Racing hopefully they get back to me. I have seen some threads where SP have explained how much better the crane cams are. Although I belive they are a custom unit specialy for SP.

I don't mind modifying my head especially if it means a 75 HP increase. Does anyone know what is involved in fitting a high lift cam, 11 mm lift for instance?

If i want to make as close to 1500 RWHP i will be amazed if it is possible with a drop in HKS CAM. But im already impressed with the figures im making now with HKS 272 cams. 2JZ-GTE RULES !!!
 

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honestly the hks cams are overated. they are good for a stock engine car beacause they wont make a bone stock motor interference. i had the 280s in my car and though the lopey idle made them sound nasty, they have the same lift as the 272s, they dont have the lift to compare to a cam such as the crane/crower/juns. i am going with the jun 272s, they have 1.5mm more lift than the hks cams. the cranes have proven to gain in excess of 75hp over the hks cams and im willing to bet the juns arent far behind that.
They aren't overrated, they have more duration which aids in raising dynamic compression ratio. The downside is that they pull less vacuum, idle worse, etc...

People also need to realize that JUN has a 9.3mm lift version of the 272.

For 95 percent of Supra owners building a street car, an HKS/JUN 9.3mm lift 272 or HKS 280 is probably your best bet. It's easier on valvetrain components, you don't need custom valves, you don't need shimless buckets (although it's recommended), you don't need to modify the head to clear the high lift Cranes, JUNs, or Crowers.

Crane has three street profiles and four race profiles.

Part # - 705-0010
Grind # - F-214/362
Adv. Dur. - 236 / 236
Dur. @ .050 - 214 / 214
LSA - 114
Lift - 362 / 362 (9.20 / 9.20mm)

Part # - 705-0012
Grind # - F-222/378
Adv. Dur. - 244 / 244
Dur. @ .050 - 222 / 222
LSA - 114
Lift - 378 / 378 (9.60 / 9.60mm)

Part # - 705-0014
Grind # - F-230/394
Adv. Dur. - 252 / 252
Dur. @ .050 - 230 / 230
LSA - 114
Lift - 394 / 394 (10.0/10.0mm)

The four race grinds are:

F-238/410, F-246/426, F-254/442 and F-262/458

The basic specs are self explanitory.

238 Duration @ .050", .410" lift (10.41mm)

246 Duration @ .050", .426" lift (10.82mm)

254 Duration @ .050", .442" lift (11.23mm)

262 Duration @ .050", .458" lift (11.63mm)

For reference based off my what I was able to come up with in 5 minutes...
(information via Crane Cams)

Stock Toyota (Intake)
Adv. Dur. - 223°
Dur. @ .050" - 200°
Lift - 8.61mm (.339”)

Stock Toyota (Exhaust)
AD - 230°
.050 - 205°
Lift - 8.81mm (.347”)

HKS 256
AD - 256°
.050 - 214°
Lift - 8.95mm (.352”)

HKS 264
AD - 264°
.050 - 222°
Lift - 9.25mm (.364”)

HKS 272
AD - 272°
.050 - 230°
Lift - 9.35mm (.368”)

Which mirrors pretty closely what Crower says on the HKS 264 and 272.

Here are Crower's shelf parts:

AD - 264 / 264
.050 - 218 / 218
Lift - .375" (9.52)

AD - 272 / 272
.050 - 230 / 232
Lift - .406" (10.31) i / .415" (10.54) e

AD - 272 / 272
.050 - 228 / 230
Lift - .372" (9.45)

AD - 280 / 280
.050 - 232 / 234
Lift - .415" (10.54) i / .425" (10.8) e
 

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T88 YOU
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i am not even comparing any cams with a duration less than 272 since we are talking about cams for a 1400rwhp setup, 264s with 9.3mm lift just wont cut it sorry. with cams, power increase is more directly proportional to lift whereas duration is more closely related to the RPM range in which you make that power. the reason i say 280s are overated is because they seem to run about $1000 anywhere you look (there are some cheaper, but generally this is about right) and for the gain you will see i believe there are much better cams for less money, such as the crower/brian crower/crane cams. granted the 3 aforementioned cams normally require extra headwork (clearancing the block, shimless buckets, custome shoter valves, etc...) and usually will only be used in a car looking for serious power, the only way i can justify using the hks 280s is to keep a BONE STOCK motor non-interference, in my eyes the extra duration is just to squeeze as much out of a 9.3mm lift cam as possible. if hks 280 cams were the best, all the drag teams would use them, but they dont, teams such as SP use the cranes because they TESTED them vs. the hks cams and they showed a ~75hp gain just by changing cams alone, same boost and all. its science, a higher lift will allow more air to enter the cylinder which equals more air to be burned with more fuel making a hotter explosion creating more "power".

"good enough" and the best are 2 different things
 

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HKS will make over 1500 rwhp and run 7.80's. PROVEN
SupraDupraFlyBoy,

Since you apparently it missed the second time around as well, I quoted PM Supra. In case you do not know who he is, he's Chris Johnson, owner and proprietor of Performance Motor Sports of BL/PM fame and engine builder par excellence.

Any of the race teams you referenced go as quick or as fast as the BL/PM car? I'm not sure how you figure 1500 whp and 7.80s with HKS 280s is overrated, or that the Cranes are cheaper overall with all the clearancing work that has to be done, but the BL/PM car sure seems like "the best" to me, as opposed to "good enough".

Ken.
 

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so whats the limit liftwise before custom valves and shimless buckets are needed? basically i'm asking how much lift can we get out of any set of cams before we need custom valves? 9.3mm? 9.5mm? 10mm?
 

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Hawtness
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SupraDupraFlyBoy,

Since you apparently it missed the second time around as well, I quoted PM Supra. In case you do not know who he is, he's Chris Johnson, owner and proprietor of Performance Motor Sports of BL/PM fame and engine builder par excellence.

Any of the race teams you referenced go as quick or as fast as the BL/PM car? I'm not sure how you figure 1500 whp and 7.80s with HKS 280s is overrated, or that the Cranes are cheaper overall with all the clearancing work that has to be done, but the BL/PM car sure seems like "the best" to me, as opposed to "good enough".

Ken.
sometimes i wonder if guys do that just to try to start drama or because they dislike someone from another company. Chris's times are incredible and i wouldnt doubt any product that lasted in his cars.
 
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