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I have a friend who is curious and would like to know if it is at all possible to swap a MKIV motor into a 1986 Celica. Wasn't sure, figured I would ask at the source. I know that Supra is RWD and Celica is FWD.
 
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That is what I figured myself, not to mention the high costs of fabricating everything needed to even make the swap work. RWD, custom mounts, lots of plasma cutting and custom stuff.
 

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It is way too much work to put in the 2JZ-GTE and I think it would be much more logical to swap in something like a 3S-GTE. That is the MR2 Turbo motor and it has ALOT of potential as well if you build it right. Tell him to check out that motor and see if he can get one of those wedged in there.
 

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3sgte

I would say no to the 2JZ in a street driven car... Of course there is always away but really not logical... I do alot of swap at my shop and well I would have NO problem doing the 3SGTE swap... Thats the most logical and in my opinion the hot ticket for front wheel drive toyotas.... If you look at the Top Secret Supra they actually took the 2JZGTE out a MKIV supra and put in a 3sgte and are making around 800 RWHP... You can check it out at www.suprastore.com in the cars for sale section... I beleive it is the 4 cyl. equa. to the mighty 2JZ.....Tell your friend 3SGTE
 

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So how difficult would it be to put a 3sgte into a mkiv?
I have been thinking about a swap like this since I saw the first Top Secret Supra(the white one).
Email or pm me with some details.
Thanks
 

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grego2 said:
So how difficult would it be to put a 3sgte into a mkiv?
I have been thinking about a swap like this since I saw the first Top Secret Supra(the white one).
Email or pm me with some details.
Thanks
I was actually wondering the very same thing as I wanted to aim the car more toward a Road Racing type of car. With me being NA I am already lighter and then with a 3S-GTE that would lighten the car even more and give it better 50/50 weight distribution and the motor should be able to hit 400-500 rwhp and be a VERY good contender on the track. Anyone have any idea where you could get the custom motor mounts Top Secret used or even if anyone would make anything of the sort?

Also with the smaller motor you could mount the IC and Radiator flat like they did in the Top Secret car as well as multiple GT300 cars. This will allow for better cooling/intercooling when coupled with the right hood.
 

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Replacing the 2JZGTE with a 3SGTE is stupid as fuck except for some sort of spec car racing, the 2JZ will not fit in that Celica w/o serious fabrication and tons of Cash ($30k and up) and this whole thread stinks like ass.

2JZGTE>>>>>3SGTE
 

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Some of the fastest track racing Supras are using the 3S-GTE and not the 2JZ-GTE. If you want good track racing its more about a balance of weight and being lightweight. NOT 1000 horsepower. I see you have one of Toyotas Race cars in your Avatar. You ever heard of the Castrol Supra? Ever wonder what motor that car was using? As well as MANY other JGTC Race Cars. The 2JZ-GTE is one of the best motor for all out power but it doesnt balance the car as well as the 3S-GTE hence the reason why your best track cars use a motor that balances the car better and can still extract quite a bit of horsepowe from them.

There is a Pikes Peak I believe Celica that is using the 3S-GTE tuned to 1000 horsepower. So its not like the motor has no potential.

Edit: My bad I just looked it up and its 800 horsepower.

http://www.toyotacelicaonline.com/fastest.htm
 

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Bad Texan Boy
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ThomsonCharm got a good point... hehe, but I knew that Tom's Supra and other Le Mans Supras are using 3S-GTE.. :)
 

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I'd love to see some pics during the attemp and afterwards...


steve
 

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You think you're telling me something new??? Did you actually read my first post correctly?

MADMKIV said:
Replacing the 2JZGTE with a 3SGTE is stupid as fuck except for some sort of spec car racing , the 2JZ will not fit in that Celica w/o serious fabrication and tons of Cash ($30k and up) and this whole thread stinks like ass.

2JZGTE>>>>>3SGTE
What type of spec racing do you think I was reffering too? That's right JGTC, but the original poster probably doesn't have a clue about it so I said it the way I did. And you really think that those 3SGTE that are used in that series or the 503E used in Pikes Peak and IMSA GTP are some run of the mill production motors? Then I have bridge to sell you... While you have little bits and pieces of info here and there you might think is correct, I've been watching Toyota's racing program for over 14 years now starting back with Dan Gurney's Eagle MKIII's and the 503E that people mistaken for a 3SGTE, to the Firestone Firehawk series with the MR2 Turbos to Rod Millen's Pikes Peak Celica to the Controversy of Toyota Japan not allowing Toyota USA to race in LeMans with their Eagle MKIII's and possibly beating them(Toy USA won the 24 Hours of Daytona previously and killed it's class) so don't even bother getting into this with me, I've forgot more on this subject then you'll ever know.

Now back to why I think the 3SGTE is not a good choice in a Supra except for a light weight spec car:
1. The Supra is heavy
2. The 3SGTE lacks the low-end of the 2JZ
3. To duplicate a JGTC Spec Supra you're looking into 6 figures just to build it
4. What purpose besides a show car would this actually be for?
5. Reliability is heavily favored towards the 2JZ
Etc...

You can thank me for schooling you:eek:


ThomsonCharm said:
Some of the fastest track racing Supras are using the 3S-GTE and not the 2JZ-GTE. If you want good track racing its more about a balance of weight and being lightweight. NOT 1000 horsepower. I see you have one of Toyotas Race cars in your Avatar. You ever heard of the Castrol Supra? Ever wonder what motor that car was using? As well as MANY other JGTC Race Cars. The 2JZ-GTE is one of the best motor for all out power but it doesnt balance the car as well as the 3S-GTE hence the reason why your best track cars use a motor that balances the car better and can still extract quite a bit of horsepowe from them.

There is a Pikes Peak I believe Celica that is using the 3S-GTE tuned to 1000 horsepower. So its not like the motor has no potential.

Edit: My bad I just looked it up and its 800 horsepower.

http://www.toyotacelicaonline.com/fastest.htm
 

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And I thought I'd add to the history lesson with some reading assignments:

http://www.toysport.com/Technical Information/toyota_twin_cam_article.htm

"The most famous and successful Toyota Race engine- the 503E was used in Toyota's Triumphant Championship seasons in IMSA GTO / GTP, Pikes Peak, Le Mans, and in the mid-90s Japan Touring Cup Championship. It is important to note that the 16 valve cylinder head layout from the 152E engine and the T block crankshaft saddle design were used as design base for this ultimate Toyota 4 cylinder Turbocharged race engine. The 503E represented the most powerful 4 cylinders in competition history developing over 1000HP in qualifying tune, 800HP for sprint races, and 600 for endurance events. IMPRESSIVE."

http://www.trs-usa.com/othertoy.htm
"503E-16V-Turbo Pics
- IMSA, FIA Group C & Pikes Peak engine. FIA Homologated as "3SG" but has non matching parts"

http://www.toysport.com/Technical Information/Toyota Racing Engines.htm

"All official Toyota Race Engines come from one source- TMC (Toyota Motor Corporation Japan).

The early beginning of Toyota motorsport involvement started with 4 engineers working on production based engines. Experimentation and experience led to the production of the first Toyota Twin Cams- the 3M and 9R. The 3M powered the 2000GT and the 9R powered the Corona 1600 GT. The first race engines were prepared in-house by TMC’s Group 7 section (manufacturing not racing!), starting in the late 60’s to early 70’s.

In 1968 Toyota released it’s first race engine- a 3000cc V8, 2-vavle. The next year the engine became a 5000cc V8 4 valve. (A full 20 years before the Lexus LS 400 / Toyota Celsior!) In another year the engine received Twin Turbos.

The early race engines were based on the K and T series Corolla / Celica street engines. The Group 7 engineers and mechanics also developed the original racing twin cam models, 2TG (100E) and 18RG. These early Twin Cam engines were later issued with 16 valve heads with highly modified stock blocks- 151E (2TG) and 152E (18RG), and a 16 valve Twin Cam 3K too!– these were the first engines developed and assembled by TRD (formerly known as TOSCO).

TRD (Technocraft) has been the official parts outlet for TMC produced race related hardware. Initial development of the 4TGTE and later development of the 503 (after IMSA) were also done in-house at TRD. TRD supplies the FIA and JICA all the homologation specifications for all Toyota vehicles. TRD also supports the Japan only Formula Toyota 4AG 20Valve spec engines. The TRD SPORTS PARTS line is distributed worldwide by TRD (Technocraft).

TMC supplied TTE (Toyota Team Europe) with base engines that TTE further developed under Toyota Europe contract. TTE had their own specifications for the 2TG, 18RG, 152E, 4TGTE, 3SGTE, and some 7MGTEs, but the basic production based blocks and heads were from TMC. The 1998 and 1999 Le Mans engines were also produced by TMC and developed by TTE. During the last two (and final) appearances of Toyota in Le Mans- these engines powered the fastest cars in the event. The new F1 project is a totally new project fully funded by TMC and jointly being developed by TMG (Toyota Motorsport GmbH)- the new name for TTE.

TMC directly supplied some Japanese Toyota Race Teams with fully built engines (TOM’s, TRUST, SARD, …… ) that these race teams further tuned externally. Through the years, engines supplied included the original 2TG/18RG based race units, the 16 valve 150 versions, the 4TGTEs, and the 503E engines. Previously used in Le Mans, the 503Es are currently used in the Japan Touring Series. The TOM’s developed production-based 3SGEs are the most successful versions of the engine series (in Formula racing applications) are not TMC issue.

TRD USA further developed the 152Es to 2100cc. (IMSA GTU and SCORE/HDRA), the interim 4TGTEs (IMSA GTO), produced the most famous 503Es (IMSA GTP / Pikes Peak), and the world-renowned Formula Atlantic engines. The spec series Atlantic engines are sold as kits to accredited engine assemblers. The current RV8E CART engines are supplied by TMC but developed, assembled, and tuned exclusively by TRD USA. TRD supplies complete engines to the contracted Toyota CART teams. Modified 5VZ for NASCAR is also under development and testing. The current aluminum truck race engines are assembled and developed in-house at TRD USA. TRD USA distributes it’s own line of Sports Parts and Accessories, intended exclusively for the U.S. models and market.

There are some official issued engine designations and specifications- but they are not accurate. Usually the specifications are based on the original design versions and for promotional information use only. For obvious reasons, the specifications announced are only representative of the race engine model- as supplied to FIA or the sanctioning group.

All race engines from the worldwide Toyota Motorsport Group originate from TMC with development and tuning by TRD (Technocraft) Japan, TRD USA, and Toyota Motorsport GmbH.

All these companies are owned by Toyota Motor Corporation, through the local national affiliate- Toyota Motor Sales"


http://www.allamericanracers.com/eagl_mkIII_gtp.html

http://prototyp.org/model/mkiii/

http://www.rodmillen.com/PPcelica.htm

http://www.rodmillen.com/PPtacoma.htm

Well hey... want a 503E then? here:
http://www.toysport.com/webpages/WebUpdates/Catalog/Toyotaet/ENGINE20LIST20MARCH202002.htm

503E GTCC / IMSA TURBO ENGINE WITH INTAKE MANIFOLD REBUILT $15,500.00

503E COMPLETE REBUILDABLE BLOCK AND HEAD $ 7,500.00

503E PARTS AVAILABLE CALL
 

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Yeah, I'm going with MADMKIV here. The 3SGTE swap is pretty much class driven in JGTC. It is not very practical for weekend club racers with limited budgets. Besides, most of them switched over to the V8 this year anyway.
 

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So with risking another ream, how about a 3sgte swap into a toyota truck or how about making an is200.
I am getting bored and need to find something to project.
now if you make the celica rear wheel drive with the 2jz that would be a project!!
 

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MADMKIV said:
You think you're telling me something new??? Did you actually read my first post correctly?


You can thank me for schooling you:eek:
Oh my god you would have thought I slept with your daughter or something.... From your first post actually YES I did think I was telling you something new. Speaking of reading past posts I specified how I wanted to use mine in some kind of road racing application. Im sorry your such God of Toyota's past racing motors and you know what your talking about. How the hell am I supposed to know that from your original post? I do however appreciate you ACTUALLY explaining shit this time and not just sitting on your throne telling everyone what you "know" with no valid proof. It goes alot farther that way..... I would appreciate it if you could "school" me earlier and without the "holier then thou" attitude but whatever either way I learned more then I knew before.

MADMKIV said:
I've forgot more on this subject then you'll ever know.[/B]
Dont ever underestimate me or my ability to learn or I will surpass you simply out of spite. :tool:
 
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