2jz, 5m, 7m

5642 Views 14 Replies 5 Participants Last post by quick, Feb 13, 2002

G

Discussion Starter · Feb 11, 2002

Boy am I stupid, so try to answer this question without making fun of me!

I think I read somewhere that people were installing 2jz Intake manifolds onto their 7m-gte, and that people were putting 7m intake manifolds and exhaust manifolds to turbo their 5m. If this is true would it be possible to put 2jz intake and exhaust onto a 5m? If so what other parts could I swap? I have an second 5m that I am supposed to pick up from the last owner and am planning to rebuild it with a few mods when i get a job! I am a stupid dreamer

!

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quick

· #2 · Feb 11, 2002

Canadian MK2 Owner said:
Boy am I stupid, so try to answer this question without making fun of me!

I think I read somewhere that people were installing 2jz Intake manifolds onto their 7m-gte, and that people were putting 7m intake manifolds and exhaust manifolds to turbo their 5m. If this is true would it be possible to put 2jz intake and exhaust onto a 5m? If so what other parts could I swap? I have an second 5m that I am supposed to pick up from the last owner and am planning to rebuild it with a few mods when i get a job! I am a stupid dreamer !

I seriously doubt that it's possible.

Why would you want to pay more for 2JZ parts when you can get the 7M parts for cheap and _know_ that they mount up to the 5M-GE?

Talk to the guys on the MkII list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mk2

SilverMk2

· #3 · Feb 11, 2002

Canadian MK2 Owner said:
Boy am I stupid, so try to answer this question without making fun of me!

I think I read somewhere that people were installing 2jz Intake manifolds onto their 7m-gte, and that people were putting 7m intake manifolds and exhaust manifolds to turbo their 5m. If this is true would it be possible to put 2jz intake and exhaust onto a 5m? If so what other parts could I swap? I have an second 5m that I am supposed to pick up from the last owner and am planning to rebuild it with a few mods when i get a job! I am a stupid dreamer !

The JZ series motors are quite a bit different than their M series counterparts. The exhaust manifold mounting pattern isn't supposed to be anything like the 5/6/7M engines. The intake would require some sort of adapter plate the same as it does with those that use it on the lower 7M intake. Most people that turbo the 5/6M engines just use a 7mGTE exhaust manifold and turbo. Everyone I've seen uses the factory 5m type intake manifold, there's no huge advantage to the 7m intake manifold. These parts are the least of your worries when trying to make big power with the 5m/6m with turbo. The biggest one is getting the fuel delivery side worked out. Afterall the factory fuel injection was never made to be turboed....

Aaron I

Wade

· #4 · Feb 11, 2002

ALmost all things are possible with enough time and money! The only reason a person would want a 2jz exhaust manifold on a M head would be if they wanted to run stock 2jz turbos. 2jz twins on a 5m would be a very interesting conversion though.

There's plenty of after market exhaust stuff for the M series engines anyway. :beer:

Norbie

· #5 · Feb 11, 2002

He was talking about 2JZ inlet manifolds, not exhaust. And I assure you it is possible, I've seen it done (on a 7M-GTE). Actually it was a 1JZ manifold, but I'm pretty sure they're the same.

It involves a fair amount of fabrication work though - you have to make an alloy adaptor which joins the JZ plenum to the 7M runners. The advantage here is the JZ plenum flows better, and the throttle body is at the front of the plenum. This means you can eliminate about 6 feet of inlet piping, plus you don't have to route the inlet over the super-hot turbo! Apparently the results are quite good if the job is done properly.

As far as I'm aware the 5M-GE has the same inlet manifold bolt pattern as the 7M-GE/GTE, so there's no reason why you couldn't do the same thing to a 5M. It would have to be a very seriously built 5M to make it worthwhile though.

Wade

· #6 · Feb 11, 2002

Norbie [/i][b]He was talking about 2JZ inlet manifolds said:
If this is true would it be possible to put 2jz intake and exhaust onto a 5m?

:spank:

Norbie

· #7 · Feb 11, 2002

OK my bad. I can't see why you'd want 2JZ exhaust/turbos on your 5M when this is the first thing the Mk4 boys replace? If I was building a killer 5M-GTE I'd start with a 7M-GTE exhaust manifold and bolt a big single on that (eg GT35/40 hybrid, good for 700+hp).

BillyM

· #8 · Feb 12, 2002

i would think that the 5m would take a bit of building if you were wanting to put alot of boost on it. it wasn't designed for turbo. would the compression be a problem, if i do remember, it was higher than even the 2jz, yet it wasn't built specifically for turbo.

SilverMk2

· #9 · Feb 12, 2002

_HOT_M16 said:
i would think that the 5m would take a bit of building if you were wanting to put alot of boost on it. it wasn't designed for turbo. would the compression be a problem, if i do remember, it was higher than even the 2jz, yet it wasn't built specifically for turbo.

the 5m is a pretty stout motor. According to what info I've heard from Russ M, the bottom end on the 5m is capable of 500-600 rwhp with proper prep work supposedly. The factory pistons are probably the weakest link in the system, being cast, they're likely going to break the ring lands or add a new hole if detonation occurs. If you can provide the fuel and correct ignition timing you can run plenty of boost on the 84/85 9.2:1 CR. 8.5:1 seems to be a relatively ideal turbo CR, especially if high boost #'s are in your future.
The big limitation on turboing the 5m is the factory FI. The fuel map for a NA engine is way different than that needed for a turbo engine. For a turbo engine you basically need the fuel map of a NA at low RPMs when the turbo is producing little if any pressure, and you need way more fuel when the turbo is producing pressure (@higher RPMs). There are several way around this. You can use some sort of fuel computer (like Apexi's AFC) but you're usually limited to +/- 50%. Most use a rising rate fuel pressure regulators which ups the fuel pressure as boost pressure increases which basically increases the # of cc's of the injector, but again with limited range. Or you can try tuning with the AFM, again limiting. The problem is say you want to make 400rwhp so you're going to need 440cc injectors (just a guess). So the injectors will be the correct size under boost, but idling the engine will need the stock 182cc injectors. The problem is trying to get the two requirement to jive. The true way around this is to run aftermarket EFI. You can then tune 720 cc injectors and that t66 turbo you've alway wanted, and the car will idle like a champ if done right. But its not the cheapest or easiest project.

Aaron I

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G

Discussion Starter · #10 · Feb 12, 2002

Thanx Guys u were alot of help!

So if i were to TT my 5m-ge with stock 2jz turbos i would need to replace the pistons to handle the power, get bigger fuel injectors, sometype of fuel computer and could keep the original intake. What kind of exhaust manifold would u suggest that would be able to get the job done without spending an arm and a leg. (as u can probalby tell I'm not used to this turbo stuff) what other kind of goodies would I have to replace to connect TT to my 5m-ge. Has ne one done this b4 or m I the only one who dreams this big!

Norbie this might sound wierd but u r my role model and wish to someday own and know as much about cars as u do.

Oh and if I were to put a 7m crank in to get a longer stroke would I have to get a custom made oilpan.

I NEED A JOB QUICK!!!!!!!

SilverMk2

· #11 · Feb 12, 2002

Look here....

http://geocities.com/aarongarney/5mgte.html or
http://home.swbell.net/pdupler/silver.htm

The 2JZ twin turbos and manifold is probably a waste of time. Some kind of custom manifold would be needed to use them, which if your going to do that there are better turbo choices. The 7MGTE manifold is a bolt up and the CT26 turbo can be upgrade to provide plenty of power. You'd need all of the MK3s intake piping and intercooler, plus a few custom parts like a downpipe and oil and water lines. The factory pistons should be OK if you're not getting insane with the boost. 210cc injector would be a good idea, some people get by with the 182 cc stockers. You'll probably want to go the rising rate FPR route, it seems to be the most popular. As far as the 7M crank, the easy route is just to buy a 6M engine. They're available at many of the bigger Japanese engine importers. The 5m crank pulley needs to be modified to fit the 7m crank. The block also needs some cutouts to clear the crank weights. 7M rods are needed also. All this stuff is already done with the 6m. If you want major turbo horsepower you should go the 7MGTE route 300-400rhwp is fairly common with these motors.

Aaron I

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Norbie

· #12 · Feb 12, 2002

Canadian MK2 Owner said:
Norbie this might sound wierd but u r my role model and wish to someday own and know as much about cars as u do.

Whoa, I'm a role model now?? This can't be a good thing!

quick

· #13 · Feb 12, 2002

Canadian MK2 Owner said:
Thanx Guys u were alot of help!

So if i were to TT my 5m-ge with stock 2jz turbos i would need to replace the pistons to handle the power, get bigger fuel injectors, sometype of fuel computer and could keep the original intake. What kind of exhaust manifold would u suggest that would be able to get the job done without spending an arm and a leg. (as u can probalby tell I'm not used to this turbo stuff) what other kind of goodies would I have to replace to connect TT to my 5m-ge. Has ne one done this b4 or m I the only one who dreams this big!

Oh and if I were to put a 7m crank in to get a longer stroke would I have to get a custom made oilpan.

Why in the hell would you do all this to a 5M-GE when you can "just" drop a 2JZ-GTE in there?

What am I missing here? Do you have money and time to burn?

G

Discussion Starter · #14 · Feb 13, 2002

Thanx Guys Twin Turboing sounded like a cool idea at the time but i think i realized i don't have the money nor the resources at the time to do such a complicated setup. I wish to buy a scrap MK3 from a salvage yard in the future and then swap in a 7m-gte cause it is probably the easiest thing to do besides the single 5m-gte but the 7m i hear has many more benifits.

Well ne ways I think I will stick to restoring the car for now then worry about the power train later. Thanx for all your help.

Out of curiosity if i were to swap in a 7m-gte how much could I get for 2 5m's one that was rebuilt 90 thousand killometers ago and another with just over 200 thousand.

quick

· #15 · Feb 13, 2002

I suspect that you could get about $1100 US total for the engines you describe.

...that's based on the fact that you can get <30k miles engines from Japan for $650 or so... and yours are rebuilt.

HTH.

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