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My friend and I have been discussing why it takes so much horse for a Supra to get into the 11s...and whether an equivalently powered F body will beat it from a roll...ugh, anybody got answers?

The questions of the day are:

What's it takes RWHP wise to make a Supra go to the 11s on street tires?

Will an equivalently powered F-body beat a Supra from a roll?

What would it take to smoke a stock z06 or a stock Viper?

Wing
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Update: I mean the LS1 F-Body (just to make things seem a bit more equal and modern)
 
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I mean the LS1 F-Body (just to make things seem a bit more equal and modern)
Actually, the LT1 Fbody more accurately matches the years the MKIV Supra was in production.

My friend and I have been discussing why it takes so much horse for a Supra to get into the 11s
First problem is your assumption - that HP determines ET. Trap speed is much better indication of HP. Next time you see a bolt-on Supra drag race, watch him bog or spin his street tires and run a 13.3 @ 115, while the bolt-on and slicked fbody runs a 12.2 @ 115. Extrapolate that. I think this should answer your question.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Where's the frickin' straight answer man

Okay obviously there are a bunch of stupid

"First problem is your assumption - that HP determines ET. Trap speed is much better indication of HP. Next time you see a bolt-on Supra drag race, watch him bog or spin his street tires and run a 13.3 @ 115, while the bolt-on and slicked fbody runs a 12.2 @ 115. Extrapolate that. I think this should answer your question."

No. It doesn't answer anything. I want to know on street tires how much horse a well driven Supra requires to get into the 11s. THAT'S IT. I appreciate your comment, but should you be attempting to be condescending or completely sure you realize what I'm asking - and have the knowledge to answer the question, then you have subsequently failed. However, if your comment was not meant to be delivered in this peevish - snobbish manner, then this comment is not meant for you...and if it was, yes, it's for you.

YES, WE COULD HAVE A THREE YEAR OLD TRY TO PUSH A 800 HORSE CAR ACROSS THE LINE...OR TO BE FAIR? HAVE A 13 YEAR OLD DROP THE CLUTCH AT 6500 AND LET IT SPIN ALL DAY LONG AND DO THE QUARTER IN 5 MINUTES. WE ARE NOT IDIOTS. SO ANSWER THE QUESTION STRAIGHTFORWARD AND TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THAT THE THE PERSON WHO CREATED THIS THREAD HAD THE BRAINS TO WRITE IT...so just answer the frickin' question WHICH I WILL NOW WRITE AGAIN and let me SPELL EVERYTHING OUT.

YOU ARE DRIVING AN MKIV SUPRA (WHY? BECAUSE THIS IS THE MKIV SUB-FORUM). YOU ARE DRIVING AN MKIV SUPRA WITH FOUR WHEELS (WHY? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT AN MKIV REQUIRES TO COMPLETE A QUARTER MILE). YOU HAVE REGULAR GAS IN THE TANK (BECAUSE GAS IS WHAT IT TAKES TO KEEP THE ENGINE GOING). YOU ARE ON STREET TIRES. YOU ARE DRIVING A MANUAL OR AN AUTOMATIC - YOU PICK...HERE'S A CONCEPT, JUST SPECIFY!!!

Man I hate it when people have to try to be ambiguous - I'm asking the question because I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.

There ARE A BILLION VARIABLES.

Pro Driver, Slicks, different trannys, different this, different that...okay, just tell me, how much horse, with a decent driver, a Supra requires on street tires to get into the 11s. You specify, based on what YOU'VE seen - AUTO? then TALK ABOUT AUTOS...MANUAL? then talk about manuals.

So just give me straight answers or don't give any, and don't reply if you're gonna be a brat and high 'n mighty aiiet? 'CAUSE AT SOMEPOINT YOU DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING EITHER. People think they're brilliant 'cause they happened to learn something someone else taught them first...yah...that makes you much smarter huh? :mad:

Wing
 

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woah...chill out there, tiger. eventually someone will post something that is informative to you. and ones that are not...dont read them.

you will need A LOT of power to hit low 11s on street tires. since the launch will be weak since you can not put the power to the ground, you will need to make up for it after you are going.

i say for a 6-speed, anwhere from 700-750 rwhp is needed for low 11s and 285mm wide street tires.
 

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Well as Walser was trying to explain, it varies from car to car, person to person because the car isn't easyto launch and not many people actually use tires that are sticky enough to run decent times in the 1/4 mile since most people here daily drive their cars. One of the better drivers on here ran [email protected] on drag radials on a 6 speed at only BPU+ intercooler, he dyno'd in the 450RWHP range and went single turbo before he tried to improve that time... And there was another tuner after him that went 11.2 or so on E/T streets while he was stil on stock turbos and with no N20(6 speed again)
Now when it comes to Automatics it changes... 550RWHP on BFG drag radials and a high stall can run you into the mid-low 10's while it takes a well driven 6 speed on E/T streets to run those times on about ~700RWHP



So does that answer your question?
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Hey you're from SAN DIEGO

You roll with Team Fusion?
 

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MADMKIV said:
Well as Walser was trying to explain, it varies from car to car, person to person because the car isn't easyto launch and not many people actually use tires that are sticky enough to run decent times in the 1/4 mile since most people here daily drive their cars. One of the better drivers on here ran [email protected] on drag radials on a 6 speed at only BPU+ intercooler, he dyno'd in the 450RWHP range and went single turbo before he tried to improve that time... And there was another tuner after him that went 11.2 or so on E/T streets while he was stil on stock turbos and with no N20(6 speed again)
Now when it comes to Automatics it changes... 550RWHP on BFG drag radials and a high stall can run you into the mid-low 10's while it takes a well driven 6 speed on E/T streets to run those times on about ~700RWHP



So does that answer your question?
My car is auto BPU, I'm planning on getting some good sticky tires this summer, what times should I be running with every variable out there? Also, what brand of stall converter do you recommend? Is it difficult to install? Thanks!
 

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RSA Supra said:
BPU autos w/ ~400+rwhp can break into the high 11's on true street tires and on drag radials/ET Streets/slicks. 6-speeds are a lot trickier to launch effectively.
So I can hang with my friends 12 sec. flat LS1's with slicks?
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Walser said:


Actually, the LT1 Fbody more accurately matches the years the MKIV Supra was in production.



First problem is your assumption - that HP determines ET. Trap speed is much better indication of HP. Next time you see a bolt-on Supra drag race, watch him bog or spin his street tires and run a 13.3 @ 115, while the bolt-on and slicked fbody runs a 12.2 @ 115. Extrapolate that. I think this should answer your question.
First, While the LT1 F-body (93-97) matches the MKIV Supra production years, lets not forget that a LT1 F-body costed 20K new, as opposed to double that for a MKIV. The LS1 F-body is a fairer comparison as they can be has for 25K loaded (not SS or WS6 models... but basic Z28 and T/A) new.

In responce to the second part of your reply, I don't think that you fully understood the question, perhaps it was too vague. A BPU Supra will be a good race with a bolt-on LS1, regardless of whether its done from a stop or a roll. Lets not forget that its TORQUE that wins drag races and not horsepower... speaking of which...

The 2JZ engine takes a beating like no other, without internal reinforcements, therefore yields high HP with easy mods. What does the dyno look like for these Supras that hit 800RWHP?? Is it momentary at a super high rpm (as I suspect) or is it a wide powerband? If its what I suspect, I can see further contributions as to why a 800RWHP Supra produces high ET (that and the fact that the IRS makes for a horrible drag race).

...I think that's it...
 
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Discussion Starter #17
RSA Supra said:
BPU autos w/ ~400+rwhp can break into the high 11's on true street tires and on drag radials/ET Streets/slicks. 6-speeds are a lot trickier to launch effectively.
So what are you saying, that autos are faster than manuals?
 

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here you go.. this guy is bpu + and he has a video of himself running a ACR viper with dual K&N intake, headers, and a good exhaust. You can look to what he has done to his car to beat this viper. here is web site:

www.stlsupra.com
 

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Look at Walser's #'s and make your own conclusions...
about 27#'s of boost and no bottle... 779RWHP/624RWTQ


and now ~28.4#'s of boost and a 90 shot 851RWHP/683RWTQ



It may not be V-8 flat, but I wouldn't call it "peaky" either...Especially on the bottle and with a close ratio gearbox which is standard


ls1love said:


First, While the LT1 F-body (93-97) matches the MKIV Supra production years, lets not forget that a LT1 F-body costed 20K new, as opposed to double that for a MKIV. The LS1 F-body is a fairer comparison as they can be has for 25K loaded (not SS or WS6 models... but basic Z28 and T/A) new.

In responce to the second part of your reply, I don't think that you fully understood the question, perhaps it was too vague. A BPU Supra will be a good race with a bolt-on LS1, regardless of whether its done from a stop or a roll. Lets not forget that its TORQUE that wins drag races and not horsepower... speaking of which...

The 2JZ engine takes a beating like no other, without internal reinforcements, therefore yields high HP with easy mods. What does the dyno look like for these Supras that hit 800RWHP?? Is it momentary at a super high rpm (as I suspect) or is it a wide powerband? If its what I suspect, I can see further contributions as to why a 800RWHP Supra produces high ET (that and the fact that the IRS makes for a horrible drag race).

...I think that's it...
 
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Discussion Starter #20
Walser's powerband is mighty impressive, he's putting down a lot of power. Honestly, I thought that the power would be peakier, especially the dyno without nitrous. Walser... what are your times and trap speeds???
 
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