[SupraLizard]

HELP!! 6 Spd. Tranny Question.....

This is one of my few questions..... hope u guys can give me a hand

When I shift 2 > 3 or 4 > 5 during "hard" shifts, lately i find that the shift is not as smooth as it used to be, and there is extra resistance, during a hard launch i find that i will slightly grind on the 2 > 3 shift. if i downshift into either 3 or 5 everything is perfect, during regular driving, everything is perfect, even sometimes during hard driving it is perfect, seems like an occasional thing.

I do not know if it has anything to do with it, but I just got the following stuff done....
-New RPS Stage 3 clutch
-New Mueller flywheel
-I put new Toyota V160 oil into the tranny (BEFORE SOME TOYOTA MECHANIC HAD REGULAR 75W90 Toyota 5spd gear oil in it. I HOPE THIS IS NOT IT!!)

Thanks for the help.

-Bartel

 

[Dealer]

Ouch, that's a nice sign that your syncros are bad... your tranny is probably on its way out. Mine had the same symptons when it was going out, but it was from 1st to 2nd gear instead. Regular driving - shifting is perfect, hard driving - shifting is clunky and grindy. If you're not in a rush to fix it, it should last you a while. JUST DONT CHANGE TRANNY FLUIDS!!! After mine did that, I changed from the v160 to Royal Purple. That shit screwed my tranny good. I swapped back to v160, but the damage had been done. Right now my first gear pops into neutral often(try sitting at a stop sign for a couple minutes while the other cars go around you!), and no 2nd at all. So it's just sitting in the garage waiting for a tranny rebuild. Winter is just around the corner... Anyway, it's a good bet your tranny is on it's way out. Let it take its time. Just be prepared for a good rebuild when it finally goes out!

 

[SupraLizard]

Hmm...... I was really hoping that would not be the reply..... but hell if it is it is......

Now, my car has under 60K miles on it, so it seems weird the tranny would need a rebuild.

HERE IS WERE I NEED HELP... What is the chance that the fact that there was Standard Toyota 75W90 Gear Lube in my tranny for the last 3 years and 15,000 miles???? IT is a Toyota Mechanic at a Toyota dealership who did this service. Could this be a definate cause to my problems?? I kept a sample of the previous oil, and I had a mechanic inspect everything when he put the proper fluids in.....Just in case i need to go after the Toyota Dealership

Btw, what is the cost of a rebuild like this?

Thanks

-Bartel

 

[Dealer]

It all depends, they might just need to change out your synchros. From wut I've seen the range for rebuilding the Getrag is from 1k-2k...anywhere in there. But I heard the Getrag is a nag to fix and Getrag doesnt sell spare parts, so looking for a local transmission shop that can repair the Getrag might be the hard part. I'm just keeping my fingers cross and hope to find one locally. Wouldnt want to ship that heavy thing out of state.

As for 75W90 Gear Lube in your tranny, I doubt a mechanic would be that niave to put gear lube into your tranny. Most likely its just some other brand of tranny fluid and not the v160. When I was calling across town to get some v160,* ALL* the Toyota dealerships here didnt even know what the heck a v160 is, so its likely something else. The Getrag is very sensitive to other fluids, so it could be the cause. I've also concluded that the higher mileage your car is, the more sensitive it is also. Some people have used other fluids for a while and it runs fine. Mine, within a week I could tell the difference. I have 95xxx miles on mine Too bad our trannies isnt as tough as other trannies found on other cars. In my friends' hondas and acuras, all they use is motor oil!

I was like you at first, hoping and praying its not the transmission. hehehe but we all gotta wake up and smell the coffee sometime. reality bites! oh wells, mind as well get it over with.

 

[SupraLizard]

Hey Dealer,

Before I bought my car, it was serviced ONLY at Toyota Dealership, the guy that had it before me installed a RPS Turbo Clutch at 30,000miles, and he also put new fluid in it....2 cans of Toyota V160 Oil, which is perfect and also show up on the invoice @ $40/can... NOW at 45,000 miles the car went in for a schedualed service and the IDIOT, A DIFFERENT mechanic put in 75W90 standard gear lube... IT is all on the invoice includeing the oil @ $2 per litre, I have all the service records for this car since she was born.....and as I said I even kept a sample of the oil..... What do you think now???? I am very interested in this, and if that oil could have screwed up my tranny, I do not drive her like crazy either, and take care of the car like a baby.

Regards,

-Bartel

 

[Dealer]

Ahhhh, I see now. I'm not too sure about all this warranty stuff and if you can do anything about it. But it could be it That 75W90 shit does not belong in the Getrag! No WAY! However, I must note that the 75W90 you see there could have been for the differential and not the tranny. Our differentials and trannies are housed seperately, and it uses the 75W90, but only one quart as I remember. You might want to check if that's the case If the 75W90 crap was in fact used in the Getrag, you might have a valid case there. Again, I'm not sure about these 'legal' stuff, but good luck on your investigation. Hopefully you wont have to spend atleast another grand...

 

[SupraLizard]

Maybe you can help me out with this one....

on that invoice it says....

-----
"replace automatic transmission and transaxle fluids or replace manual transmission and differential fluids"
QTY DESCRIPTION UNIT PRICE
3 Gear Lube 75W90 $3.14
2 Dexron III $2.57
-----

So then whether they used 75W90 or the DEXRON III would you not agree the both do not have a place in the Getrag, and if i am not mistaken the ATF Dexron III is already been proven to kill the bushings and require the tranny to be replaced and\or rebuilt.

-Bartel

 

[Grant]

uhhh, first try and ajust the clutch pedal. Trust me, if its out of ajustment it can shift poorly and you really won't know. Might not be the problem, but it could save you from buying a new tranny.

There is a lock nut where the rod from the master cylinder attaches to the pedal, loosen that and turn the rod to ajust it.

 

[yasir]

Hey Dealer,

Before I bought my car, it was serviced ONLY at Toyota Dealership, the guy that had it before me installed a RPS Turbo Clutch at 30,000miles, and he also put new fluid in it....2 cans of Toyota V160 Oil, which is perfect and also show up on the invoice @ $40/can... NOW at 45,000 miles the car went in for a schedualed service and the IDIOT, A DIFFERENT mechanic put in 75W90 standard gear lube... IT is all on the invoice includeing the oil @ $2 per litre, I have all the service records for this car since she was born.....and as I said I even kept a sample of the oil..... What do you think now???? I am very interested in this, and if that oil could have screwed up my tranny, I do not drive her like crazy either, and take care of the car like a baby.

Regards,

-Bartel

Hey Bartel stop worrying,your car is still under factory warrenty as far as the transmission and the engine goes. The warrenty is like 5 yrs/60 k miles,so remove all your performance parts,even the air intake/exhaust i mean,every thing and take the car back to the same dealership and show them the Transmission change receipt. If i was u,i'll definately have my transmission looked into or preferrably changed alltogether Just make sure it's not your clutch as sometimes that can cause this sorta problem too.Don't forget Toyota only recommends V-160,period I'm presuming it's 97/98 and even if it's not,it was there mistake and insist on getting it fixed,period!
Good-Luck Yasir

 

[97twinturbo]

uhhh, first try and ajust the clutch pedal. Trust me, if its out of ajustment it can shift poorly and you really won't know. Might not be the problem, but it could save you from buying a new tranny.

I also had to adjust the pedal after a clutch replacement, and had to adjust the limit switch for the pedal up position so that I had the proper amount of slack. Be careful not to leave only a thread or two of the rod screwed into the pedal assy. or it will rip out and take the first few threads with it (AMHIK).

 

[greensoup]

Don't forget Toyota only recommends V-160,period I'm presuming it's 97/98 and even if it's not,it was there mistake and insist on getting it fixed,period!

I believe the Toyota Manual list two different fluids for the 6 speed manual transmission. V160 and Esso something.

 

[SupraLizard]

Hey Thanks for the suggestions and solutions,

I will check out the clutch adjustment....

About my post somewhere above..... When they put the 75W90 and Dexron III fluids in my car, should i assume the 75W90 went into the differential and the Dexron III into my tranny........

Thanks.

-Bartel

 

[Dealer]

Evening Lizard,

Anyhows, I'm pretty sure the 75W90 went into the differential and Dexron III went into the tranny. The weird thing about our trannies is that if you jack it up and look under the transmission, there is a BIG ORANGE sticker there that says:" ATF Transmission Fluid ONLY!" I got no idea why Toyota has it there! I'm assuming the moron probably read that at face value and used the Dexron III. However looking at what you wrote, I dunno why they listed 3 75W90's when only 1 quart is needed.? The 2 Dexron III seems reasonable.

Anyway, yeah take some of these guy's advice also and check to make sure it ain't just a loose cable first... I don't think a loose cable will cause shifting to grind though. Well good luck on your transmission quest!

 

[SupraLizard]

Evening to you Dealer, and btw, thanks for all the help

Those numbers are in litres...

Now about the damn Dexron III fluid. That is not the right fluid is it???

In our manuals it says Esso ATF Dexron D-21065. Is that the same as Dexron III?

Last thing... What is the final opinion on these Dexron ATF fluids, last i read a letter from Getrag said that synthetic fluids are NOT supposed to be in our trannies which is what the ATF Dexron is right????... Here is a link to the Getrag article on www.mkiv.com

http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/getrag/no_redline/getrag.html

Thanks.

-Bartel

 

[Andi]

Use the Toyota V160 oil for the Getrag 6-speed, and the Toyota [whatever] oil for the auto. Both are proprietary and it's a risk to use anything else... years ago everybody was saying "yeah use Redline D4ATF in the Getrag, it works great and it shifts smoother!", now they're saying "I wish I hadn't used that Redline in my tranny, now my shifter won't self-center when the car is cold." Redline makes a good product, it's just not compatible with the transmission's internal bushing(s)... why risk it w/ other oils?

As for the differential... On Kent Rafferty's and Phil Panas' recommendation, I run Redline Shockproof Heavy. It's a thick red synthetic oil that is quoted to have the internal friction of a 75w90 and the "protection" of a 75w250. After already blowing up one diff.... I'm happy to go "overkill" on the differential oil this time around. Toyota probably wouldn't be too thrilled if I drove in with 315s on the car and wanted a warranty on the diff AGAIN..

Oh.... most people don't know this, but Toyota recommends you change both the differential oil and the transmission oil every 15,000 miles. Says so right in the manual:

http://www.mkiv.com/manual/manualtt/maintenance_schedule/a.jpg

Regards,
Andi

 

[SupraLizard]

Andi,

I just sent you mail.

-Bartel

 

[theman]

The reason the manual lists two fluids is because certain companies do make a compatible fluid to V-160. I believe there is a Quakerstate Synchromesh fluid that will work or that special Dextron number that was listed. BUT that is definitely not the standard Dextron you find everywhere and both those fluids are always a special order thing. It's easier to get a hold of the $40 V-160 from the dealership. I've seen quite a few dumb-ass shops like the TURBo shop in Jessup try to recommend and put in Redline 75-90, saying it's an equivalent when they aren't even looking at the correct Supra tranny. Dealers usually don't know any better either...
Definitely take your receipts and complaint to the dealer who did it and after enough complaining I'm sure they'll find a way to give you a new Getrag since toyota only does replacements on them.

 

[theman]

Oops, I forgot one problem though... Since you have the aftermarket solid flywheel and non-toyota clutch you'll probably have a hard time getting that out of them because that's the first thing they'll use for an excuse for improper working condition.

 

[SupraLizard]

theman,

The first thing i will do tommorrow is see if a clutch rod adjustment will help. if not, I will write to Getrag for their opinion, and once it comes time to go after the dealer i will install a stock clutch and a stock flywheel, they are cheaper than a Getrag tranny . Man i really hope an adjustment will fix this, since I CANNOT shift in 3rd when driving really hard, pisses me off..... And if an adjustment is not the solution, well then... I think i have a very long fight upcoming........

-Bartel