[Silent2g]

been doing some research here about the 6m and 7m swaps

6m seems easiest and most cost effective for what im going to be doing with the car

on a 6m swap i was told the intake manifold and exhast manifold need to be changed. other then that its pretty muhc a plug and play deal

can anyone confirm this?

i was also told the 6m is closer to the 7m then the 5m is. just a different crank to give it the 3.0 liters

this is what my ultimate goal with the car is. 14's on motor, 12's on the bottle with tires
intake header exhaust. port and polish things. cams, nitrous and some other tricks. or just pull the turbo stucf from a 7m and put it on there. which ever is cheaper for me at the time of doing the swap.

is this idea feesible or not?

i can get the motor for less then 600 bucks with a 12 month warranty.

any feedback on this is more then welcome

 

[hard_drive_j]

I haven't heard of any differences between the intake and the exhaust. Just that the cam is larger, and there is a slight difference in the valves. Check out http://www.celicasupra.com/recipes.htm for detailed info..

 

[SilverMk2]

On the 6m the exhaust manifolds are the same. Depending on if you need an EGR valve for emissions reasons determines if you need to swap the intake manifold. The 6m intake is basically identical to the later style 5M manifold (84-86 D shaped runners) minus the EGR valve. If you need the EGR valve you'll need to swap upper intake (if you have the D shaped runner intake) along with all the EGR equipment (valve, tube, cooler, etc). If you have an earlier style intake setup you'll need to swap both manifolds and all the vacuum plumbing, they're totally different. It's a good idea to use all the 5m electronics. For one thing you know they work and some of the 6M stuff has different part#'s on them (distrubutor hint). The heads, camshafts, etc are the same as the 5m. The most worthwhile difference in the 6m is the crank (early 7M), rods (7M), & crank pulley(6M). It's basically a stroked 5M. It's about as easy an engine swap as there could be.

Also when you get the 6m make sure to replace all the seals (especially the valve seals). Also do the h20 pump, t-belts, fuel filter, etc. this stuff is needed for the warranty (& is a good idea) along with some other items. You'll need to use a 7m front main seal instead of the 5m part also. If you can afford a rebuild doing one on the 6m would be a good idea. Many who just drop the motor in have oil burning problems in a year or so.

As far as performance is concerned high 14's are going to be possibly in reach with a stock 6m. With out some serious boost I wouldn't expect 12's. Some 6MGTE that I've heard of run lower to mid 13's. 12's with a 7MGTE would probably be much cheaper. It has a more upfront cost but would be much more upgradeable in the future and would probably be cheaper in the long run. Eventually the limitations of the factory ECU rears its ugly head on the 5M. 300 Rwhp is doable on factory 7m parts. Not to many 6m/5mgtes are running that much power. I think I only think of 1 or 2 on the Mk2 list. My 2 cents.

Aaron I

 

[Silent2g]

Aaron, thank you for the info man. i see that you have a modded 6m there. i might be in contact with you as far as more performance things for this motor and such.

i was wanting to stay away from the turbo motor because the car i have now is a turbo car and im not really in the mood for more problems then i already have.

what does your car run BTW???

i was thinking of doing a 50-75shot direct port kit for an added kick occasionally.
injectors, fuel pump, other bits and pieces port and polish here and there

would 7m arp head studs work in this motor?

14's on the motor, 13's on bottle would suit me just fine. i can do this for around 1500 bucks total. including the motor.


is there anything else i can watch out for when getting a motor and or doing the swap?

don't fear. im far from a newbie when it comes to nitrous. motor swaps and toyota's in general.
just asking questions to futher my knowledge on this particular matter

 

[dgoodhue]

14's on motor... tires intake header exhaust. port and polish things. cams, nitrous and some other tricks

For high 14's in 6M I would do air intake, headers/exhuast, pulley and cam gears. Anything more than that is really going to be at the limit of the stock Injectors/ECU.

Injectors, fuel pump, other bits and pieces port and polish here and there would 7m arp head studs work in this motor?

How do you plan on controlling larger injectors? Maybe an aftermarket AFM might do the trick, but you not going ot do the above for $1500 with the motor. I don't know about the 7M Stud, but the 6M head is the same as the 5M.

 

[SilverMk2]

To tell you the truth it hasn't even fired yet. I'm still in the middle of putting it back together. As far as 1/4 mile times, this car will probably never see the drag strip. I'm more of a road racer type, after all it's a sports car . As far as the 7m studs, from what I understand is that they're too long (or is it short?). However, from what I've heard they have bolts that'll work. I'd see if you can get measurements from ARP to determine if they'd fit or not.

Aaron I

 

[Silent2g]

For high 14's in 6M I would do air intake, headers/exhuast, pulley and cam gears. Anything more than that is really going to be at the limit of the stock Injectors/ECU.



How do you plan on controlling larger injectors? Maybe an aftermarket AFM might do the trick, but you not going ot do the above for $1500 with the motor. I don't know about the 7M Stud, but the 6M head is the same as the 5M.

fuel control would via a FPR.
what is the comp ratio of of the 6m? still the same as the 5m or higher due to higher stroke ratio?


im bascially looking for what i can do to this thing as far as an all motor bolt on. intake manifold, header, full exhaust, air intake system, injectors, fpr, cams, cam gears, pulleys, nitrous. thats about it as far as i want to take the car/motor.

so far from what you guys have said it is a pretty easy deal to do. and i think you for takin the time to read this and reply

 

[Silent2g]

got the plan figured out here

6m swap. no egr crap. {no smog tests here}
header
exhaust
intake system
FPR.
fuel pump
75 shot
clutch
flywheel
and with all this i believe i will reach my goal of easy 13's in the car. 14's on the motor. which will make me happy.
also, got to poking around toysports site, noticed they had a 6M ecu on there. does anyone know if this would plug into the 5m wireing harness?
id imagine so, due to basically same motor. but ya never know


figured id run this by you guys to see what you think of it


ALSO. i am looking for idea's on how to fix rusted out rear quarter panels {mud flap area} and the rocker panels
sorta fit doesn't have these parts.

 

[dgoodhue]

also, got to poking around toysports site, noticed they had a 6M ecu on there. does anyone know if this would plug into the 5m wireing harness? id imagine so, due to basically same motor. but ya never know

It plugs right in. You can use 6M auto ECU in a 5 speed the only issue is the idle drops when you put the clutch initially. I can't remember what the compression ratio is on a 6M but it is the same or in the Ball park of what the later 5M-GE are.

 

[SilverMk2]

The 6m ECU is supposed to have a speed limiter built in (I think all Japanese cars have these). The 6m should run fine the 5m ECU. The only problem some folks have is to have the check engine light come on at freeway speeds (~80+mph). You can get around this by playing with the AFM. If you've got some mods to go with the 6m, the 210cc injectors from 85-87 4AGE's are a direct fit.

Aaron I

 

[Silent2g]

210's seem kinda small
well to me at least

im probably going to get some from RC injectors {maybe 270's or bigger?}

just a thought

what is the power limit {rwhp} of the 210's?? my guess is no where near what im trying to put down {close to 300 rwhp on bottle} i do have some tricks up my sleeve for this quest as well.

any feedback regarding injector size is much appreciated

 

[quick]

210's seem kinda small
well to me at least

im probably going to get some from RC injectors {maybe 270's or bigger?}

just a thought

what is the power limit {rwhp} of the 210's?? my guess is no where near what im trying to put down {close to 300 rwhp on bottle} i do have some tricks up my sleeve for this quest as well.

any feedback regarding injector size is much appreciated

Are you trying to create a drag car?

Remember that MkII's are GTs with the commensurate suspension. You're going to need a turbo on any M-series engine to make 300 rwhp. Nitrous won't get you there reliably IMO.

Talk to Joel Tanzman about his 7M-GTE MkII... he's running fast-ass 1/4 mile times (9s or 10s) reliably. It's a drag car so he's also running a Powerglide 2spd tranny...

 

[SilverMk2]

The biggest plug in injector you can get is 295 cc (late 22RTE's). After that it's wire cutting time. For 300 rwhp (~350 crank) you're probably want a mid 300 cc injector. The problem is the 99% of the time you off the NOS the engine is going to run pig rich. The correct size for a stock 6m is the 182cc units that come in it. So when your drive around with the NOS off the injectors are going to 50+% percent bigger than needed. There's no way the factory computer and all the AFM meter tuning in the world will compensate out for this. The only two ways around this is to use one of those NOS fuel pressure regulators that spike the fuel pressure when the juice is flow or going to a wet or direct port kit. 300 rwhp will take a lot of juice. Most relatively stock with some miles 6m's run about mid 160 rwhp. With a high number or mods and a well built motor might get you to 200 rwhp. So your going to have to spray close to a 125-150 shot of nitrous to get those numbers. I hate to say this but thats a BIG shot. Enough to blow up a twice the size V8. I'd highly recommend at the least a metal head gasket, a set of forged slugs, and a solid motor. Frankly, if emissions aren't an issue, slap a turbo on there.

Aaron I

 

[Silent2g]

guess im gonna stick with my original plan here

210cc injectors
FPR
fuel pump
intake system
header
full exhaust 2.5 inch
and a 75 shot and call it a day.


then do massive suspension work.

BTW, whats the best header for this thing? i know pace setter makes one {not my first choice, but its cheap}


if im being to picky, feel free to slap me around

 

[quick]

guess im gonna stick with my original plan here

210cc injectors
FPR
fuel pump
intake system
header
full exhaust 2.5 inch
and a 75 shot and call it a day.

then do massive suspension work.

BTW, whats the best header for this thing? i know pace setter makes one {not my first choice, but its cheap}


if im being to picky, feel free to slap me around

'Best' header is probably the Doug Thorley... no need to modify it and it's 50-state smog legal.

Why are you uninterested in turboing the car? If you're talking about making power, forced induction is the most reliable way to go IMO. You can do it for $1500 if you get the parts used, etc.

What kind of suspension work are you going to do: I'd put on some lowering springs, Tockico HPs, wider wheels/tires, swaybars front/rear, strut tower braces front/rear.

Even then you still have a GT car... remember that when you drive it. A buddy of mine almost took his 7M-GTE MkII (with the suspension mods I'm mentioning) off a cliff because he forgot that.

Good luck.

 

[Silent2g]

thats exactly the suspension set up i have planned for it.

why im not going turbo is this

i have a turbo car now. i have had nothing but bad luck with it. its pretty much scared me away from another turbo car for a while. if i was going to do it would cost more then 1500 bucks to do it, crank, rods, pistons, head work, cams and such.


i never did find out what the comp ratio of the 6m was anyways.

and im not in the mood to mess with it right now. i just want to put the motor in, little things here and there, and just drive it. all the nitrous is for, is those pesky turbo civic's and mustangs to mess with me daily in my gsx. but its going to be mainly a SCCA car

 

[quick]

That's fair. If you're talking about DSMs though they're a world of difference from Toyotas.

Yotas are much more reliable.

Good luck with the nitrous and the 6M setup. I suspect the compression ratio is the same as the 5M.

 

[SilverMk2]

Compression ratio is probably around the 9:1 - 9.2:1 or so range on the 6M. The 6m has the more or less flat top pistons from the early 5m (8.8:1 motors). Not sure if they are the same exact unit as these 5m's since I have none to compare them with the 6m pistons. If they are the early 5m pistons the CR should be a little higher than 8.8:1 due to the 6m's bigger displacement. Later 5m's had domed pistons which are going into my 6m as of now, which should hopefully get me 9.5:1 or thereabouts.

Aaron I

 

[SloppyGoat]

The 6m ECU is supposed to have a speed limiter built in (I think all Japanese cars have these). The 6m should run fine the 5m ECU. The only problem some folks have is to have the check engine light come on at freeway speeds (~80+mph). You can get around this by playing with the AFM. If you've got some mods to go with the 6m, the 210cc injectors from 85-87 4AGE's are a direct fit.

Aaron I

I just bought an MKII with the 6M motor. My check engine light does come on at higher speeds. Can you explain what you mean about the AFM? Being a newbie to the MKII world, I don't know what "AFM" is yet. Also, any cheap performance mod suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

DOH!!! Ok, Air Flow Meter.....I got it.