And by the way. I won't be going standalone for a WHILE! So what turbo would you recommend for using a Map ECU? Is the 71 too big?

And what is the stock shortblock good for in terms of max rpm? With after market springs, retainers, and cams?

 

i was in the same boat (and still am as you) after seeing numerous dyno charts and videos....im going 71bb.

I would like to make a good amount of HP on pump gas (not that it will see a lot of pump gas) but i also like being able to make 750hp (my goal) and still not be stressing the turbo too much. And it seems like wiht a 67 i would need everything and some to get me to that point. And with a 71 its not all that hard on it.

 

Stock valvetrain will you limit you to lower rpm's more than power. You can rev up to about 7,500 with the stock valvetrain. With a 67, you should be able to hit about 650+ rwhp on a manual, that may be a conservative estimate. Over 700+ with the 71, again conservatively speaking. I'm getting my 71 dbb tuned Tuesday, so I'll have some real numbers to pass along, although I have an auto in my car, so the numbers will seem a bit low. I don't think the map ecu will be a problem with either, you'll have to go with 1000cc injectors though on the 71 since you're planning on running higher boost all of the time with race gas. I'd say go with the 71 dbb... I think there's going to be a shift of people going for that turbo over the 67's as the new "ultimate street turbo". A lot are probably curious as to how much of a pick up there is over a 67 and see if the extra price tag is worth it.

 

What size of stall are you running on your car? Can't wait to see the numbers with that turbo.

 

I have a PT71-GTS and i love it / trapped 130mph with mine on low boost 22.5 psi / 3680lbs the 71mm also has a Billet Compressor Wheel

But it really just depends what you want. How much lagg is acceptable? and are you aiming for 800rwhp ? i think a 67mm will at max give you 700rwhp but a 71 should be able to produce 800rwhp

And since you already plan on putting cams in then i would also upgrade your springs and retainers for higher rev capability


Have you ever driven a Supra with 700+ rwhp or taken a ride in one ?

 

i agree 140mph traps on a relitvely quick spooling turbo is what im all about 71 ftw!

 

Spool doesn't concern me as much as the limit of RPMs does.

I have only ridden in a 500whp supra, nothing more. It was a 67 on pump gas at 15psi.

My main concern is not using a standalone (using a map ecu). My next concern would be I would like a few thousand rpms of play time with the 71dbb.

 

kerry1's MKIV is a stock block,stock head,with 272 cams, running a 74 GTS,@32-34psi on C16 on a daily basis.
His car is insane on the hwy!!!!
this is his engine bay!

 

I love the fact that these engines can produce some sick power and take some massive modifications on the stock internals. I just hope that stock 2jz blocks can be had for a long time! They are about $2300 in todays market. I'm not sure if these are new with 0 miles from the American domestic market from Toyota, or if they are used jdm motors.

Anyone want to clarify? BTW your friends engine bay looks amazing and I'm sure it's a monster.

 

Ya you can get brand new shortblocks or just blocks from toyota. 0 miles ect ect

 

67mm = 699.4 hp. Couldn't even get the last half outta it!

 

Wow. 699 seems like PLENTY of power for the street!

I can't believe I really had to make this thread. LOL
Supra has no limits. I will LOVE this car. I'm already obsessed with it as it is, and I don't even own one yet!

And that's good to know that stock 0 mileage oem shortblocks will be available for quite some time. err at least I hope so.

 

You'd be surprised what you can get out of a 67mm!! On a journal bearing 67mm P-trim with a .68 A/R, the most my car put down was ~640rwhp on C16 @ 27 psi. This was also on a completely stock and unopened motor. I recently did valvetrain and put in 272 cams a couple months ago and will be going back to the dyno to see how much more power I'll be able to squeeze out of this turbo. Honestly, best all around turbo in terms of spool vs. power potential. Here's my "little" 67mm :wavey:

I know of a few people running 74mm turbos on their 6 speeds and they can also be extremely powerful on stock motors. IIRC, Taimur on the forums has a 74mm on his Supra and made around 800rwhp.

Good luck with your choice!!

 

be warned if purchasing a NEW OEM shortblock,lots of guys have spun a bearing,at low miles!
http://www.titanmotorsports.com/fatosh.html

quote:
Check Up: At Titan we have found a few short blocks to be out of factory specification from the factory. The old traditional method was to buy a factory short block and drop it in, without checking any torque specifications or bearing clearances. That has now changed, although putting in a factory block for a stock application may be perfectly fine - when you make above stock hp levels these factory motors are stressed more and the tolerances are more critical. This is why we offer a thorough inspection of these factory OEM shortblocks

 

T67

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=445563

quote:
First run :

18psi (waste gate pressure), low 11's AFR, unlocked converter

446.03rwhp / 369.69trq

Second run :

18psi and the 75shot wet, high 10's AFR, unlocked converter

525.28rwhp / 421.96trq

Third run :

29 falling to 28psi of boost, low 10's afr, unlocked converter

582.68rwhp / 453.42trq

Fourth run :

30psi of boost and the 75shot, low 10's afr, unlocked converter.

646.08rwhp / 486.11trq

(this what I will running the track and that will probably get my well into the 9's)

Fifth run :

28psi of boost, low 10's afr, converter locked

643.68rwhp / 534.54trq

Sixth run : (I closed my eyes for this one LOL)

30psi of boost and the 75shot, low 10's afr, converter locked

700.24rwhp / 576.46trq

 

699...is maxed out turbo (which is something i never want to do) plus a little spray. I would rather give up 200rpms of spool to go pass 750 and still have some psi left on a 71.

 

I obvioulsy can't confirm this until I get back from my tuning session at SP on Tuesday, but I'm thinking that the 71 dbb gts will spool more quickly than a journal bearing 67. Maybe not a 67 dbb, but then the upside in power of the 71 is more than enough to overcome any small difference in spool on my priority list.

 

Thanks for the incredible posts.

I'm glad to see Titan motorsports does the "check ups" on the oem shortblocks.

 

I like the 67!!!!

Virgo actually posted my dyno #'s above but keep in mind that I have an automatic transmission with a high stall converter so my dyno #'s are less then say what a six speed would put down but on the street and the track is where my car will shine.

I think that I currently have one the best setups going, I have an extremely responsive car that is an absolute joy to drive just normally and when I put race gas in it and yank the boost up it turns into a monster. I have a standard P-trim journal bearing 67mm Turbo and when I need it a 100 shot of nitrous to go along with it. The dyno's above where on a 75 shot of nitrous with pig rich air fuels FYI. I am expecting almost 700whp with the converter unlocked the next time and 750+ with it locked. My motor is "built" but I am on stock rods FYI!

What more could you ask for? Fantastic spool, great street manners, 9 second capable ET's in the 1/4 mile? I do not think the heavy price tag of the DBB71 is worth it IMHO even though I may end up paying it in the long run, but for know I could not be happier with my trusty ole 67.

Bob

 

Virgo actually posted my dyno #'s above but keep in mind that I have an automatic transmission with a high stall converter so my dyno #'s are less then say what a six speed would put down but on the street and the track is where my car will shine.

I think that I currently have one the best setups going, I have an extremely responsive car that is an absolute joy to drive just normally and when I put race gas in it and yank the boost up it turns into a monster. I have a standard P-trim journal bearing 67mm Turbo and when I need it a 100 shot of nitrous to go along with it. The dyno's above where on a 75 shot of nitrous with pig rich air fuels FYI. I am expecting almost 700whp with the converter unlocked the next time and 750+ with it locked. My motor is "built" but I am on stock rods FYI!

What more could you ask for? Fantastic spool, great street manners, 9 second capable ET's in the 1/4 mile? I do not think the heavy price tag of the DBB71 is worth it IMHO even though I may end up paying it in the long run, but for know I could not be happier with my trusty ole 67.

Bob

Thanks for the info!
Your post is one that will stick in my mind because it shows how adaptive the 67 can be for several set-ups. I'm glad to see it's working for you and that it can be made into a monster with race gas!

 

good to know the spool diff isnt that much of a diff, the 71 might be my next turbo current is a 67

 

>> BL 67 kit Average Horsepower Rating in RWHP(spool depends on A/R sizing)
T67 P: 620-670 (4000-4400rpm)
http://www.boostlogic.com/xcart/product.php?productid=5&cat=9&page=1


>>BL 71 kit Average Horsepower Rating in RWHP(spool depends on A/R sizing)
T71 GTQ : 720-820(4600rpm)
http://www.boostlogic.com/xcart/product.php?productid=6&cat=9&page=1

http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Templates/frmTemplateM7.asp?SubFolderID=211&SearchYN=N
-PHR Stage 2+(T67)-This turbo hit full boost at 4,300 RPM's, only 100 RPM's after the Stage 2, yet was capable of another 40rwhp on a stock motor. This turbo, in our opinion, is the ultimate street turbo. This Stage 2+ (GT67) was originally tested by us here at MVP. On one of our Supras it turned just under 700rwhp on a bone stock motor

-The PHR Stage 3 Turbo (GT72) is capable of 750rwhp at full boost. Full boost is attained at 4,500 RPM's and will give you plenty of useable power past 7,000 RPM's.

^^ i used to have this turbo kit! too me it was perfect for the street/hwy,i loved it,but im moving up!

and of course there is this kit,my first single kit!
--PHR Street Kit
This is perfect for running on the stock fuel system to make 500-520 WHP at 18 psi of boost. Due to the short-runner cast steel exhaust manifold, the PHR Street Kit makes full boost by 3500-3800 RPM, with peak torque at 4500 RPM. This kit also works very well with a fuel system, as the tubular manifold has been tested to breathe very efficiently up to almost 650rwhp

now that im building my long block,with a VWR intake manifold,Im looking for a turbo set up,capable of 850-1000whp,with quick spool, full boost by 5K rpms,and make power to 9k rpms!

 

Are you planning to make power to 9k (regarding long block upgrading) by just adding aftermarket springs, retainers, and cams? Is that really all one needs for the 2jz to rev to 8-9k safely?
Is the stock crank balanced, and can the rods and bearings take 9k let alone the stock oil pump?

 

Rxc224- Idk if your going to post your results after your trip with SP anywhere but if you dont mind i would love to see them! It seems like you and I are looking for the same preformance and i think you picked the right setup!

 

Yeah, I'm not certain in which section I'll be posting results in (most likely SP's section though), but I'll definitely be putting up numbers along with my build list. I'm hoping to get it to the track too here quickly, as I'm sure Lar and Chris are curious to see what the 71gts dbb and the 4l80e are capable of in the 1/4 mile. I actually started off with a the PHR stage 2+ kit... I was really on the fence though the entire time and wanted their Stage 3, but opted to go with the 67 b/c it's my first APU move, plus it's generally thought of to be more streetable. When the 71gts dbb became available, I sold the unused 67 and went bigger. I'm just excited to get it back with some time left before I put it into storage.

 

On a side note. How does the HKS T51r kit compare to a DBB 71 kit? In terms of spool and overall whp? Reason I ask this is because its about the same price as going with a dbb 71kit.

 

On a side note. How does the HKS T51r kit compare to a DBB 71 kit? In terms of spool and overall whp

T51r spools quite a bit slower probably 600-700rpms slower. Power will net about the same, i do think the t51r will make a little bit more power though.

But in terms of sound.....T51r FTW!

 

693whp @ 25psi

4067 DBB, 264 cams, greddy intake manifold, head work, AEM, 100/114 mix. Yes, you can make over 700whp with a 67 but its going to cost you, and it wont be by much.

 

I'm at 650whp 67mm @ 27psi greddy t78, no cams. Will be going up too the t88-34d for more power.

 

With a fully built head, ported/springs/retainers/ect how much can you get away with Revving? 8k? I seen above that someone is going to 8.5k but i dont think that is safe at all. Just looking for some heads up

 

The upgraded springs are supposed to be safe up to 8900 RPM, my friend has gone as high as 9200 without any problems but I would not do that.

 

i made 636 rwhp @ 24 psi on stock fuel+ meth with a 67mm .81 seems like there is a lot left in it. :dunno: