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87 supra on silvers neo max
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I'm doing a jz swap later in the year and I was wondering the feasability of a a650e swap from a gs300/is300 or whatever lexus comes with a 5 speed auto. Or would it be easier/cheaper to convert my current a340e from 7m to jz? I'm wondering about intricacies like crossmember, the ecu I would need, wiring, cooling, and maybe a different driveshaft (might just order a custom one from driftmotion if they still do that sort of thing). also my budget for the swap is around 4.5k - 5k. I can dip a little bit more but at the end of the day I dont think it'll go pass that since it's only a 2jzge vvti.

Don't get me wrong, I was considering a manual swap but I was highly discouraged with the price of the clutch. $250 is outrageous and I dont trust those stinky facebook marketplace clutches. Also I'm a spoiled rich kid with issues, lots of issues. I love my automatic lol.

otherwise, I would like a constructive opinion on swapping an a650e into a mk3. I kind of want a lexus swap since most people in my area know how to work on 2jzge vvti along with the transmission. I would love to do a full turbo 1.5jz cd009 500 hrspurr stang/challenger/charger killer swap into my mk3, but tbh Im just trynna enjoy my car before I go all out with the na-T. and it needs to be daily-able cuz my parents like to enjoy my car too.

thanks for your time supra gods

edit:
also a shop is helping me out with this. not doing all the work just paying for shop space and his time/wisdom/resources/whatever. and for u mongrels telling me to use the web, I tried. I only found one thread but it didnt really have opinions on the matter
 

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Sup G.

Overall, kudos, because you're thinking about everything that needs to be changed to make everything work. A lot of pre-swap folks really think it's IG easy and it all just plugs in there like it was meant to be. It isn't.

But right up front, if you want a running auto 2JZ-GE VVTi, especially with an A650, use your build budget to buy an IS300 instead. Not kidding.

A 2JZ-GE VVTi engine is almost always a front sump engine, so you'll need the rear sump oil pan assembly, pickup tube, dipstick etc to even fit the engine in your engine bay with JZ swap brackets. Going rate for that oil pan set is $550-750. Figure with engine brackets you'll be around $800-1k just to physically bolt the engine into your MK3. That doesn't touch a single thing with transmission, wiring, accessories like PS and AC, gauges, anything.

Keeping the auto is adding a very big layer of expense and complication here when it comes to wiring and transmission control. You'll need to spend some very real $, likely on the order of $1500+, to keep the stock 2JZ-GE VVTi ECU and auto trans and have everything wired up to actually run and drive. The MK3's speedometer is cable driven so unless you're running a MK3 era transmission that can drive a speedometer cable (the A650 is not one of them) then you're rolling with no speedometer. A/C will take custom lines and an R134A conversion at the minimum, and hopefully that custom wiring harness does the trick to make that go. PS lines will be custom to connect to the MK3 rack but otherwise won't be too problematic.

Your stock 7M-GE fuel pump should run a 2JZ-GE just fine, but you'll need some fuel line changes to connect everything.
Clutch fan, radiator, exhaust, heater lines, drive shaft, trans mount etc will need to be sorted (as you already guessed) and gauge sending units from the 7M-GE to run your gauge cluster will need to be installed somewhere and wired... the list goes on.

The 2JZ-GE VVTi is the very cheapest JZ for a reason, in that it is an all-or-nothing build. It's ideal if you're going to install forged rods & pistons, get it set up on a good standalone, and rock a proper manual trans from the start and set it up for a big turbo build right away, like SF's own @omicca did with absolutely fabulous levels of 'tism and attention to detail. Spoiler alert - it ran about 5x over your budget, if I remember right from his posts.

Now, hypothetically, if you got a complete wrecked IS300 or GS300 of the correct vintage and diligently moved EVERYTHING over into the MK3, changing wiring lengths and mounting brackets as needed to make it all work, you could hypothetically have what's basically a complete IS300 or GS300 inside of a MK3 shell. Historically I have seen very few folks achieve success with that methodology as the HVAC, gauge cluster, and misc plumbing always turns into a mess. The stock body electronics and CANBUS stuff from those cars will probably cause a great deal of errors and problems as the whole car's electronics will want to talk to each other, which is another reason why a standalone ECU and doing it all from scratch is a more proven and achievable path.

Overall, I think spending the money to make a stock ECU and stock auto trans run behind a 2JZ-GE VVTi is a dead end and you'll end up chasing wiring problems and error codes and when it's finally all running and driving you'll have spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours to have a MK3 that's probably slower than a stock IS300. Not exactly a great ROI. Plus you'll still need a full build and standalone and all kinds of stuff to finally turbocharge it as the gods intended.

If you're dead-set on an auto trans, and want a near-stock but cool setup that you can just drive and enjoy - I'd honestly work to bump up your budget to cover a nonvvti 1JZ-GTE w/auto trans, ideally out of a JZA70, and source the maintenance parts/rear sump oil pan/engine swap parts etc & get a Kaizen or similar custom engine swap harness. From there it'll be basically plug and play compared to the headaches of keeping a stock 2JZ-GE VVTi ECU happy. Plus it'll be a 1JZ-GTE already. If what you want is a 1.5JZ someday, that sets you up wonderfully to eventually drop a 3.0L shortblock in there, convert it to a manual trans, and go single turbo with a standalone and all that good stuff.

Finally, dude, if you think $250 for a clutch is expensive, look at what a quality aftermarket clutch costs for a 700+hp setup and reconsider your perspective. I've spent literally ten times that much money on a clutch. These cars are awesome, but they are no longer cheap to build. Not that they ever really were cheap to build...


Oh, to directly answer your question - if you want the 2JZ-GE VVTi to run on a stock ECU, it'll have to run the A650E as well. It'll have no idea what's going on with a 7M-GE A340 and trying to convert that to run on a JZ engine even with a standalone is just asking for trouble. You can probably find a good A340E from a 2JZ-GTE VVTi Aristo engine set for cheap, though, as those transmissions were routinely set aside for a manual during the countless 2JZ-GTE swaps that happened 'back in the day' and once you're set up on a standalone that can run a 2JZ-GE VVTi, it's fundamentally the same sensor package and engine profile as a 2JZ-GTE VVTi as far as trans control etc.
 
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87 supra on silvers neo max
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
To grasp what youre saying, if I go the 2jzge vvti route its best if I have a manual trans with a standalone ecu, but if I want a headache-less near stock build I can snag a non vvti 1jzgte auto out of a jza70 and transplant it into the mk3.

For the 1jz, would I just have to lengthen the wiring harness and its almost plug n play? I have some idea of what this looks like with @NARFALICIOUS guide (and video) to wire a vvti 1jz on his youtube channel. but is it easier with a harness and ecu straight of a jza70?

Also, I don't plan on retaining the cruise control, just climate control and power steering. I read the supra swap for dummies on supramania and I thought it was gonna be straight forward with the 2jz swap like the 1jz gte auto swap, but I guess it was old info. And it also said swap for dummies... so uhh.
Awkward.

Hmm. just thinking about the jz swap got me tired
 

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To grasp what youre saying, if I go the 2jzge vvti route its best if I have a manual trans with a standalone ecu,
Yes.


but if I want a headache-less near stock build I can snag a non vvti 1jzgte auto out of a jza70 and transplant it into the mk3.
Not 'headache-less' but substantially reduced headache. You can use virtually any 1JZ/auto engine/trans set but the wiring and install is by far the easiest with a JZA70 engine/trans set. Those are also the oldest and the most expensive and the ones most likely to need maintenance or show up off the pallet with stuff that needs to be fixed e.g. a stock turbo is toast or injectors are bad.


For the 1jz, would I just have to lengthen the wiring harness and its almost plug n play? I have some idea of what this looks like with @NARFALICIOUS guide (and video) to wire a vvti 1jz on his youtube channel. but is it easier with a harness and ecu straight of a jza70?
Massive oversimplification but yes, a significant chunk of the wiring job will be lengthening the harness. If you want to use a walkthrough for a VVTi engine though I'd strongly recommend staying with the VVTi. The non-vvti might as well be a different engine as far as the wiring/ECU specifics are concerned.


Also, I don't plan on retaining the cruise control, just climate control and power steering. I read the supra swap for dummies on supramania and I thought it was gonna be straight forward with the 2jz swap like the 1jz gte auto swap, but I guess it was old info. And it also said swap for dummies... so uhh.
Awkward.

Hmm. just thinking about the jz swap got me tired
Definitely keep the climate control and PS.

The Supra swap for dummies on Supramania is talking about nonvvti 1JZ-GTE and nonvvti 2JZ-GTE engines for the most part. Nobody gave a tenth inch of shit about the 2JZ-GE VVTi until ~3-4 years ago when GTE prices started going nuts so very few if any old walkthroughs or data will be talking about a GE. I'm kind of astonished you thought it would correlate because it does not.

Remember, US spec 2JZ-GE VVTi engines have wildly different ECU's, wiring, and integration into body electronics. The devil is in the details and not all JZ's are the same engine. Swap guides, wiring guides, etc are very specific to one specific year range & engine+ECU type and into one specific year range/type of car. This shit ain't legos and if all you do is watch youtube and IG it'll make all of this look far easier than it really is.

I cannot overstate how much I STRONGLY recommend just spending the money for a custom wiring harness from someone who knows what they're doing with JZ MK3 swaps, like Jose @ Kaizen Tuning. It will save you tons of headache and add resale value to the car because prospective buyers won't need to fear some jank ass bullshit wiring making the car run.
Yes, it'll be $1000-2000 depending on options. Worth. Every. Penny. If you're not very comfortable with wiring work and wiring diagrams.
 

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87 supra on silvers neo max
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I cannot overstate how much I STRONGLY recommend just spending the money for a custom wiring harness from someone who knows what they're doing with JZ MK3 swaps, like Jose @ Kaizen Tuning. It will save you tons of headache and add resale value to the car because prospective buyers won't need to fear some jank ass bullshit wiring making the car run.
Yes, it'll be $1000-2000 depending on options. Worth. Every. Penny. If you're not very comfortable with wiring work and wiring diagrams.
I appreciate the wisdom. Looks like I'm gonna have to learn manual and get out of being a spoiled kid 😁.

Although I am curious, Tweak'd performance does offer an automatic trans option to their wiring harness. does that mean that they can wire an auto trans into a standalone and vvti motor? or is the option just there to let them know your harness is from an automatic car? Man too many questions today.
 

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I appreciate the wisdom. Looks like I'm gonna have to learn manual and get out of being a spoiled kid 😁.

Although I am curious, Tweak'd performance does offer an automatic trans option to their wiring harness. does that mean that they can wire an auto trans into a standalone and vvti motor? or is the option just there to let them know your harness is from an automatic car? Man too many questions today.
The most important thing about standalone + auto transmission isn't the wiring, it's the software support in the standalone ECU you choose. If the standalone you pick can't control the auto transmission, wiring it up doesn't matter.

There's a lot of different ways to start on this. If the car is a running daily driver but the end game dream is a crazy build, then buy the IS300 to daily and start saving more up from there to build the Supra proper.
Or you can also start with a simple manual swap on your 7M. Finding an R154 from a 7M-GTE car complete with clutch flywheel driveshaft etc will likely cost a couple grand but it's a pretty straightforward swap to ditch the auto trans. Then you've got a strong manual trans and you can enjoy learning to drive stick, and you'll probably wonder why you ever wanted to keep an auto.

Then any JZ swap or whatever you choose is a $300ish flywheel and $400 bellhousing away from bolting to your R154, and there's no further trans drama to consider until you're pushing 500+.

Ultimately this is a game where you can die by 'analysis paralysis' and end up doing nothing, or die by jumping headfirst impulsively into a really poor combination. The key here is to really, really chew on this and think about it and really decide what you want, and be realistic about your time and your mechanical skills.
If you've got a buddy with a shop that's helping you out - real talk, I'd ask if you can start mopping floors and just working there for dirt cheap and being that low-wage shop gofer for the basic bitch tasks but be there to help and learn when they're deep in the thick of crazy wrenching. You'll learn a LOT that way and as you improve your skillset, your other options for your own cars will open up. Just my 2psi!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ultimately, it comes down to what my friend and I are comfortable with and also our budget. From what I understand, it'll come down to 6-7k anyways if I adapt a 2jz ge vvti and then 6-7k still if got 1jz gte vvti +manual (and more with a standalone). I'll have a talk with the guy soon and I'll share some updates.

Thanks wreckless, I know youre probably tired of saying the same stuff over again but it helps, really.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So I talked to my mechanic and it looks like we're going to rebuild the 7mge lol. Since the motor was burning oil right before it blew a headgasket, we will be rebuiling the the whole engine once more. Since we're pulling the block, I have the budget to machine an MLS gasket and use ARP headstuds this time around, as well as a driftmotion oil pump. I might add some trap doors to the oil pan as well. Thanks for the advice, again, wreckless. youre a real one.
 
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