Supra Forums banner

21 - 40 of 58 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,344 Posts
Dude, Toyota did nothing with this car other than send the calty body design file to bmw. How could you even start to formulate toyota would be playing the long game waiting for their designers to come up with enough cool cars that it would warrant the supra having its own power plant? Lexus had engines in their portfolio that could have easily found a home in the new "supra". This conversation is so old and stale at this point I can't believe I'm even arguing it.

I will say it again, I don't hate the car as a standalone thing. Its a fine car and many people will enjoy it.
But if bmw started manufacturing Lexus vehicles for lexus with lexus emblems slapped on, I would never buy another lexus. I don't buy cars to keep them for 3-5 years, because if you buy a bmw product... that is their useful shelf life before you go broke trying to keep them together. This is coming from someone who loves bmws prior to 2003.

My point pertains to toyota motor corporation using BMW as their manufacturer to drum up enthusiasm for their motorsports brand. You can't even argue this car had much to do with toyota other than the exterior styling. I'm not mad at people that bought the car, I'm not mad at the car, I'm not mad at tuners that are making "exhaust burble" tunes for the cars. Theres plenty of members here who are angry at any thread that mentions 2020 Supra in a positive light. I'm not that guy. I'm glad people are having fun, spending money, etc if that means it trickles down to prop up the toyotas we all know and love.
Quoted for emphasis.

RexJza,

Lay off the crack, man. These "musings" of yours, in various threads, have no relationship whatsoever to reality. Name another car that's been developed with one motor and is mid-cycle refreshed with another motor. Toyota is not selling enough cars at present to recoup its shared investment with BMW. Why on God's green earth would it worsen its financial position relative to this car by installing a new, different motor in some future version of the MKV? Toyota made a series of can't-be-believed wrongheaded decisions regarding the MKV and your posts theorize about traveling back in time to correct all the bad decisions made regarding the MKV.

Face it. It's not going to happen. What's done is done and Toyota is NOT going to, now, spend more R&D money on a car already developed and available for purchase. I can't believe we're actually having this discussion.


Ken.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,169 Posts
Well I'm looking forward to the new Z, which is supposed to be getting a 3.0TT, and will be available with a manual transmission.

My DD is a 2018 Q60 AWD, with a tune, intake and exhaust, it spins all 4 wheels to 50mph, I surmise subtracting 500+ lbs would make it a low 10 second car on stock twins at the expense of traction but at least I'll be able to shift myself and it should be much cheaper.


Just a guess but I don't see any of that being inaccurate.
247830
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
96 Posts
Bmw's gonna bmw.

This is exactly why you don't see ANY bmw's contending in any kind of serious drag racing, period the end.

BMW at drag week? Nope.... not a chance.

I'm not surprised in the least bit that this car broke the way it did. I don't know why this is being posted on this forum, I wish the Supra forum was just for 2JZ discussions only because the new BMW car has just brought all the BMW trash to this forum.
 

·
Game Over
Joined
·
1,217 Posts
Discussion Starter #26
Bmw's gonna bmw.

This is exactly why you don't see ANY bmw's contending in any kind of serious drag racing, period the end.

BMW at drag week? Nope.... not a chance.

I'm not surprised in the least bit that this car broke the way it did. I don't know why this is being posted on this forum, I wish the Supra forum was just for 2JZ discussions only because the new BMW car has just brought all the BMW trash to this forum.
It's no surprise, but we've speculated, and hoped at one point for Toyota to reverse the BMWness of this car. Here's proof that the powertrain of this new car isn't as robust as the MKIV as a result of one of Toyota's many wrong headed decisions that went into this car.

Seeing Toyota stoop this low makes me really question the quality of their future products. IIRC, this car already has 3 major recalls, and there are already some owners that allegedly have issues with fading paint that Toyota is trying to deny. Smh
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,032 Posts
Name another car that's been developed with one motor and is mid-cycle refreshed with another motor. Why on God's green earth would it worsen its financial position relative to this car by installing a new, different motor in some future version of the MKV?

Ken.
Perhaps this is one of those "forest for the trees" situations, but I can think of one example, close to home here:

The Mk3 Toyota Supra

Started out with either a 7m or 1g, and what did we get a few years into production? That's right, the 1jz. :)

Not saying it'll happen with the Mk5, and in fact, given the complexity of modern car electronics, I'd almost be certain that you're right and it won't happen, but... it has historical precedent. S197 Mustangs also had a similar story, with the introduction of the Coyote in... 2013, If I recall correctly. Until then it was a long in the tooth Modular 3-valve making around 300hp, then the Coyote comes out and bam, 420hp right out of the box.

Even the Miata, in the NA generation, got a nice mid-cycle improvement, with a jump from the 1.6 to the 1.8 engines, which were, admittedly, more similar than my other examples.

It's no surprise, but we've speculated, and hoped at one point for Toyota to reverse the BMWness of this car. Here's proof that the powertrain of this new car isn't as robust as the MKIV as a result of one of Toyota's many wrong headed decisions that went into this car.

Seeing Toyota stoop this low makes me really question the quality of their future products. IIRC, this car already has 3 major recalls, and there are already some owners that allegedly have issues with fading paint that Toyota is trying to deny. Smh
Old Supras were extremely overbuilt, but that seems to be the Japanese philosophy of the older designs. They didn't have the benefit (?) of FEA to tell them how strong their parts designs were, and where they could afford to shave weight or needed to improve their designs. I suspect a lot of it was simply tradition and conservatism at work. Clearly, this worked to our benefit.

I'm not worried about Toyota's products though, they seem solid as ever these days. :p Seriously though, GR Yaris looks like a riot.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,344 Posts
Brad,

My comment that you quoted dealt only with USDM cars. Only the 7M and 7M-GTE motors were offered in the USDM MKIII Supra. Those motors were in the MKIII for the entire life-cycle of the car. It certainly wasn't uncommon for Toyota to offer motors in Japan, South America and the Middle East that were never offered in the U.S. The Europeans did the same thing.

An increase in displacement from 1.6 to 1.8L in the Miata example you cited is not the same thing, IMO, as developing a completely different motor that generated FasTTurbo's response and mine as well. RexJza was talking about an all Toyota motor when we all know the MKV has an all-BMW motor.


Ken.
 

·
iSPOOL
Joined
·
1,138 Posts
What are his power levels with this car?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
8,450 Posts
Perhaps this is one of those "forest for the trees" situations, but I can think of one example, close to home here:

The Mk3 Toyota Supra

Started out with either a 7m or 1g, and what did we get a few years into production? That's right, the 1jz. :)

Not saying it'll happen with the Mk5, and in fact, given the complexity of modern car electronics, I'd almost be certain that you're right and it won't happen, but... it has historical precedent. S197 Mustangs also had a similar story, with the introduction of the Coyote in... 2013, If I recall correctly. Until then it was a long in the tooth Modular 3-valve making around 300hp, then the Coyote comes out and bam, 420hp right out of the box.

Even the Miata, in the NA generation, got a nice mid-cycle improvement, with a jump from the 1.6 to the 1.8 engines, which were, admittedly, more similar than my other examples.


Old Supras were extremely overbuilt, but that seems to be the Japanese philosophy of the older designs. They didn't have the benefit (?) of FEA to tell them how strong their parts designs were, and where they could afford to shave weight or needed to improve their designs. I suspect a lot of it was simply tradition and conservatism at work. Clearly, this worked to our benefit.

I'm not worried about Toyota's products though, they seem solid as ever these days. :p Seriously though, GR Yaris looks like a riot.
Which of bmws motors would they upgrade it to in their car? Did you already forget Toyota didnt build this car. You think at the 11th hour toyota is all the sudden going to take the reins from BMW on a car they have next to nothing mechanically to do with?
🦄🐻🦜
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
382 Posts
Perhaps this is one of those "forest for the trees" situations, but I can think of one example, close to home here:

The Mk3 Toyota Supra

Started out with either a 7m or 1g, and what did we get a few years into production? That's right, the 1jz. :)

Not saying it'll happen with the Mk5, and in fact, given the complexity of modern car electronics, I'd almost be certain that you're right and it won't happen, but... it has historical precedent. S197 Mustangs also had a similar story, with the introduction of the Coyote in... 2013, If I recall correctly. Until then it was a long in the tooth Modular 3-valve making around 300hp, then the Coyote comes out and bam, 420hp right out of the box.

Even the Miata, in the NA generation, got a nice mid-cycle improvement, with a jump from the 1.6 to the 1.8 engines, which were, admittedly, more similar than my other examples.


Old Supras were extremely overbuilt, but that seems to be the Japanese philosophy of the older designs. They didn't have the benefit (?) of FEA to tell them how strong their parts designs were, and where they could afford to shave weight or needed to improve their designs. I suspect a lot of it was simply tradition and conservatism at work. Clearly, this worked to our benefit.

I'm not worried about Toyota's products though, they seem solid as ever these days. :p Seriously though, GR Yaris looks like a riot.
"MK5", S197 Mustangs and Miatas... These reveal your age.

You're a long way from Starbucks homie.

Leave the real Supras to the big dogs.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
96 Posts
Yeah, it was said above but I just want to cosign that the Mark 3 supra did not get a motor refresh. I recently learned this while working on a friend's Mark 3 that has a 1JZ engine in it. This motor was not offered in America, period. There was no "motor refresh" for the Mark 3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,032 Posts
Brad,

My comment that you quoted dealt only with USDM cars. Only the 7M and 7M-GTE motors were offered in the USDM MKIII Supra. Those motors were in the MKIII for the entire life-cycle of the car. It certainly wasn't uncommon for Toyota to offer motors in Japan, South America and the Middle East that were never offered in the U.S. The Europeans did the same thing.

An increase in displacement from 1.6 to 1.8L in the Miata example you cited is not the same thing, IMO, as developing a completely different motor that generated FasTTurbo's response and mine as well. RexJza was talking about an all Toyota motor when we all know the MKV has an all-BMW motor.


Ken.
Yeah, it wasn't uncommon for Japanese manufacturers to offer a wider variety, for a variety of reasons, of differing engines in their cars. It was, however, unfortunate that US regulations meddle so much in innovation.

Miata was admittedly not the best example, as the BP engines are all fairly similar. Probably more fair to compare those to the 5M / 6M situation.

I see what you guys are getting at though, and hence why I agreed with the main point. Toyota COULD do it, but will they? Nah. The Mk5 will always be the red-headed step child of this family, no matter how hard anyone tries to convince anyone differently, or how accomplished it may become on its own merits. Shame it was so phoned in...

BUT... Pony cars had their dark periods as well. Perhaps the Mk5 is simply that, a low point for the name. Or, perhaps it is dead and this is just salt in the wound, to have to watch a car die twice. For what it's worth, it's the only name Toyota has brought back from the dead so far.

Which of bmws motors would they upgrade it to in their car? Did you already forget Toyota didnt build this car. You think at the 11th hour toyota is all the sudden going to take the reins from BMW on a car they have next to nothing mechanically to do with?
🦄🐻🦜
Fair enough. Could and would are definitely different things. Like I said in my last post, the electronics alone would make it a nightmare for the manufacturer to change the engine.

"MK5", S197 Mustangs and Miatas... These reveal your age.

You're a long way from Starbucks homie.

Leave the real Supras to the big dogs.
Jacques, is that you?

Curious, how old do you think I am? I didn't know that providing vehicular history was a tell.

Why don't you come out to Vegas this year bud, show us all what a "big dog" Supra is all about? I'll be there. So will a lot of other people who are actually pretty cool once you get to know them.

Yeah, it was said above but I just want to cosign that the Mark 3 supra did not get a motor refresh. I recently learned this while working on a friend's Mark 3 that has a 1JZ engine in it. This motor was not offered in America, period. There was no "motor refresh" for the Mark 3.
So, because it didn't happen where you are, it didn't happen? I can't say I understand this logic. There have been a LOT of cars not offered in America that were pretty great. Same situation with engines.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
96 Posts
No, what I'm saying is that the japanese ones were sold with one motor and the american ones were sold with another motor. I don't think jdm cars ever had a 7m engine and i don't the usdm cars ever had a 1jz engine. That's all I was saying...... so I wouldn't consider that a "motor refresh". They were simply sold with two different engines depending on where in the world they were sold. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that as I don't want to spread misinformation.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
382 Posts
Yeah, it wasn't uncommon for Japanese manufacturers to offer a wider variety, for a variety of reasons, of differing engines in their cars. It was, however, unfortunate that US regulations meddle so much in innovation.

Miata was admittedly not the best example, as the BP engines are all fairly similar. Probably more fair to compare those to the 5M / 6M situation.

I see what you guys are getting at though, and hence why I agreed with the main point. Toyota COULD do it, but will they? Nah. The Mk5 will always be the red-headed step child of this family, no matter how hard anyone tries to convince anyone differently, or how accomplished it may become on its own merits. Shame it was so phoned in...

BUT... Pony cars had their dark periods as well. Perhaps the Mk5 is simply that, a low point for the name. Or, perhaps it is dead and this is just salt in the wound, to have to watch a car die twice. For what it's worth, it's the only name Toyota has brought back from the dead so far.


Fair enough. Could and would are definitely different things. Like I said in my last post, the electronics alone would make it a nightmare for the manufacturer to change the engine.


Jacques, is that you?

Curious, how old do you think I am? I didn't know that providing vehicular history was a tell.

Why don't you come out to Vegas this year bud, show us all what a "big dog" Supra is all about? I'll be there. So will a lot of other people who are actually pretty cool once you get to know them.


So, because it didn't happen where you are, it didn't happen? I can't say I understand this logic. There have been a LOT of cars not offered in America that were pretty great. Same situation with engines.
You absolutely reek of a vaping millennial.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
10,344 Posts
You absolutely reek of a vaping millennial.
Ease up a bit, Check. No need for the personal stuff. The truth will set us all free.


Ken.
 
21 - 40 of 58 Posts
Top