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My name's Scruffy.
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was talking to a friends uncle who is pretty smart with electronics and cars and whatnot. he was telling me that if you add a possitive charge to the intake and a negative charge to the exhaust (a complete circuit) it would trick the car in having denser air. anyone hear anything like that? from what he was explaining to me it seems it would work...
 

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why would you want to trick the car into thinking it has denser air? it then assumes more oxygen=more fuel=rich. a stockish car without fuel mods already runs pretty rich anyway, i dont see any possible benefits from doing this....explain if you know of some that i dont.(this is assuming i am understanding your post correctly...im a little fuzzy on it)

adam
 

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as far as i know our fuel cut is based on the reading karmann vortex passing through our afm, which does not take into account the density of the entering air, just the speed(wonder why fuel cut is higher when its colder outside...actually more O2 content of the air per cubic foot). since the fuel cut level is based on bulk amount of air passing, tricking the ecu into thinking the air is more O2 rich will cause it to give more fuel....not raising fuel cut, making you run rich. this is probably a bit hard to understand...was hard to put into words for me...anyhow i hope this sheds some light on the situation. feel free to correct me if i am wrong.

adam
 
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:stupid:
 
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Hah Viperlocc, your friends uncle discovered the engine is an air pump. That is assuming he's talking about the air charge not some electronics charges! :)

He's right, if you push in denser air (boost) and suck out the exhaust (more complete cylinder evacuation = less unburned left over gasses in the cylinder) then you make more power.

Now that is great and all, but how do we do it?

Actually the car is using "less dense air" anytime you have the throttle partially closed. The cylinders fill in with the same volume of air as any other time, but the density of that air is lower. With boost the volume is the same, but the density is higher.

Now, who borrowed my leaf blower and vacuum cleaner?
 

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the clever guy
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I was thinking he was talking electric charges. With air, you won't see a "negative" charge on the exhaust side, ever. For example, running stock manifold and turbo; there is somewhere around 2x the pressure in the exhaust manifold as there is in the intake manifold (@WOT).
 

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HMOOB VWJ NYOB MINNESOTA
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add a possitive charge to the intake and a negative charge to the exhaust (a complete circuit)
Three things that will happen when you connect positive to intake and negative to exhaust:

1. either the positive or negative wire will turn red hot and melt
2. if neither wires will melt then your battery will explode
3. if 1 and 2 doesnt happen then wait and see if your car will melt

Doing so is like connecting positive and negative to a large sheet of metal.
 

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My name's Scruffy.
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Discussion Starter #13
Shawndude said:
Hah Viperlocc, your friends uncle discovered the engine is an air pump. That is assuming he's talking about the air charge not some electronics charges! :)

He's right, if you push in denser air (boost) and suck out the exhaust (more complete cylinder evacuation = less unburned left over gasses in the cylinder) then you make more power.

Now that is great and all, but how do we do it?

Actually the car is using "less dense air" anytime you have the throttle partially closed. The cylinders fill in with the same volume of air as any other time, but the density of that air is lower. With boost the volume is the same, but the density is higher.

Now, who borrowed my leaf blower and vacuum cleaner?
air charge is correct by what i meant..
 
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Oh well that changes things!!
 

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leaf blower and vacuum cleaner?
dam i used a hairdryer...guess i got to upgrade to a leafblower..
 
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Well actually guys I sort of see what viper is saying. If anybody here has an Ionic Breeze or any other sort of ionic air filtration system for cleaning air then they would understand. The Ionic breeze uses electronegativity, and polarization to statically charge particles in the air in order to propel them into a oppositely charged pole(or electrode). The flaw in what viper is proposing is that particles in the air are filtered out by the air filter element, and even still the particles would probably loose their charge when they touch the a grounded metal surface ie. engine block. Also building static charge near electronics is not a good idea :)
 

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What I think he's talking about is magneticaly charging the air. I think it was GM that did a lot of testing with magnetic fields in the mid 80s. What they found was that using electromagnets you could charge the incomming air with a certian charge and the fuel with the exact opossite charge. The two fluids become ionized. This does two things. One, it helps the mixture homogenate better. It also creates a weak bond in the mixture. This helps to slow the burning of the fuel under combustion (like adding octane boost). Theoreticaly this could let you run higher compression and get a more efficient burn. The end results of the study were that the gains in efficiency were negligible and the cost of production was too high. In order for the effect to work, intake manifolds and fuel rails would have to be plastic to avoid absorbing the magnetic fields. It was a lot of complexity for little to no gain. Basicaly, it's not worth it. There is an SAE paper on it if anyone cares to look it up. I read it a few years ago.
 
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