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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well ALSCCA put on its first PDX event (we have clubbed raced there twice) and it was a great event if I say so myself. The track went green at 8am when all the other clubs go green at 8:30am so that helped us all get more track time.

We only had one car hit the guardrail and as usual it was a self-inflicted wound. A 600hp. "show car" mustang with what I understand to be drag shocks on the back came out of turn four too far too the left (in the marbles) with too much loud pedal applied and round she went. Airbags deployed but no one hurt. Other than that no problems. (which is good for Barber considering how technical it is)

As for yours truly, I FINALLY got some quality track time in my CRX to get in a groove to drive (first time missing a tranny bolt on a tranny swap, second time broke an alternator bracket, third time my mystery temp spike issue). This time I replaced temp gauge sensor, fan switch sensor, and the ECU water temp sensor, and bled the crap out of the coolant system. No issues for two whole sessions. Thought it was gone and drove hard. The issued creeped back some the last two sessions but never went hot. Off comes the Meziere electric pump and on goes the mechanical pump even if I do lose 5hp in the deal.

I have always wanted to see how the CRX could stack up to a Lotus Elise. Well my prayers were answered but instead of the Elise I was a Lotus Exige sandwich during one session and I came out of that a happy man. I pulled up to grid and there was a gray Exige in front of an Uber supercharged Miata. I was behind the Miata and behind me was a modified yellow Exige with a lower splitter, higher non stock rear wing, and the engine was louder (don't know the mods). When Pit Out gave the signal to enter the track the miata waved me by. The yellow Exige went with me. Because the miata was stopped on grid that put the gray Exige some distance away from me. There was no yellow on the first lap. It was green from the time you entered.

I believe in a fairly "spirited" warm up lap to get tires up to temp and the brake pads toasty enough. I got up to the gray Exige and in the third to last corner which is a sweeper uphill type turn I nailed the throttle pretty hard in fourth (just barely into vtec though) and run up on the Lotus which went high into the next to last turn before the front straight. I think that is the slow line at least for not full blown mega race cars. I got under the Lotus but still behind. I trail brake a lot coming into the next to last turn which is a "throw away" right hander you late apex a lot to set up for the very soon left hander onto the front straight. While still trail braking I enter a big steering input for the right hander and get out of the brakes immediately an onto the gas. I get a BIG rotation that way and it is evident on in-car video. That helps get the car pointed at the apex quicker which allows me to get into the throttle earlier than the guy in front of me.

Now I am right on the ass of the gray Exige and have beaten him to the throttle on the last turn coming onto the front straight. I got a run on him about 100 feet out of the turn and he points me by (in advanced you don't need one anyhow) and I pulled him coming down the front straight (and I had a 180lb. passenger and he had none. I did it to the gray Exige twice in the same way. I pulled away from the Exige from that point on. The yellow Exige that looked so trick that driver (from florida) just was not as capable (yet) as his car. I pulled him too easy. I was in the advanced group for ten minutes or so just to get some track time when I was too busy helping run the event and missed my first instructor run group. I do know from looking at the gray Exige driver's resume (I helped with the run group pairings pre-event) that the driver was very experienced.

My car weighs about the same as the Exige (except I had a passenger), I have more hp at the wheels than a stock Exige, and with my brake and suspension mods, I should be in the neighborhood on cornering gs, transient response, and braking. It was a blast. If I get it put on DVD and can get someone to edit and upload it I will post it. The only car to pass me all day was an experienced SCCA club racer driving a T1 Vette ZO6 and I feel no shame in that. Larry Bryant was there in his new single turbo set up. He had a good time I believe.

Barry H.

 

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Nice report, Barry. It would also be intersting to see the vid if you can put it up.


But on the other hand, now I hate you for jerking me back to reality = ...that a well set up and driven little Honda can kick butt on an Exige. On the other hand (not that other hand from before, this is the other hand) my wife will thank you since the cost difference is probably enough to cover a kitchen renovation and we all know you can eat in a kitchen but you can't eat a car.
 

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that track seems like so much fun... I'll have to make it up there one day.

n
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Nick 95 6sp said:
Nice report, Barry. It would also be intersting to see the vid if you can put it up.


But on the other hand, now I hate you for jerking me back to reality = ...that a well set up and driven little Honda can kick butt on an Exige. On the other hand (not that other hand from before, this is the other hand) my wife will thank you since the cost difference is probably enough to cover a kitchen renovation and we all know you can eat in a kitchen but you can't eat a car.
LOL thanks Nick. I wonder how much time per lap I was losing with a 180lb. passenger in a 1950lb. car with my hp. level. To run these cars down with my car though you have to wring its little neck (9,000 revs), smoke the rear tires some under braking, and lift a rear wheel. The car is much looser in the rear from corner entry to apex than anything I have ever driven before so the "butt-o-meter" in that segment has to be fairly tuned. I would love to have an Exige myself for the drool factor but having a track car that is reasonably fast and if I munch the chassis, all I have to do is find one for $500 or maybe a little more and put another cage in it. Assuming I don't total out the major things like engine or tranny. Believe it or not, "wrong wheel drive" can be a whole lot of fun.

You know that Ls1 powered RX7 sounds mighty tempting. Completely strip the interior, no A/C and Lexan side and rear windows and that car would be very nasty (and have torque which I don't have). Henson Supercars are right up the highway from me.

I am going to have the in-car made into a DVD this week. If I can find someone to edit and upload I will post it here.

Barry H.
 

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Bar,
I'm sure I'll find out about the FD/LS1 combo first hand in the near future. My buddy from NJ got an LS1 FD (with that Hinson setup) late last Summer and after doing a few things to make it a better track car (full cage, coilovers, suspension work, etc) he's ready to take it out this year. I drool over what that car is likely capable of with a decent driver.
 

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Yup, yup, yup.........
A great event!!
I had a ball and ran in the advanced group (a surprise sprung by Barry!!!)
Anyway, there were only 14 cars in that group so I got a lot of open track so I got to work on the line a lot without worrying that much about traffic.
The only car in the group that really ran better than I was an Elise that appeared to be on rails. I think it was just better driving??
I not only lapped some cars, I double lapped a couple in the last session (maybe they pitted or something??)
I gave Barry a courtesy "old-man" point-by so I could chase him around rather than vice versa. :stickpoke
He would get through the corners faster/quicker, but I usually caught him after the straights.
Hmmmm - I wonder what would have happened if I had turned up the boost from 0.85 to about 1.1?? Heh - I probably would have been black-flagged more than I was! (Only three times for the day). One mechanical (tranny fluid drip), one for 2 wheels off, and the last for 4 wheels off! Well, if you aren't getting black-flagged every now and then, you're not trying hard enough!
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Cough, Cough, now Larry you did let me by coming out of three (I got earlier throttle on you) and I am sure you could have pulled on me coming into the hairpin, BUT I opened up a gap on you and you were not on my bumper at the end of straights. But remember I worked my way up to you in the first place to be able to get a run out of turn three.From what I can figure I pulled about 5 seconds out over the four or five laps I was out in your session. When I backed out of the throttle to cool down coming out of the museum turn it took you I think 7 seconds to come by me on full boil so I will knock two seconds off for my forward motion cruising at low speed out of the turn. I need to get the video posted up somewhere. I guess we will have to settle this "differing recall" at the next event Barber event!! LOL. Go ahead turn up the boost.

When I get the footage on DVD can anyone edit and upload the video for me?

That Elise you described as being faster, heck man I passed him twice!! The Gray one? It for damn sure was not the yellow Exige, his car was trick but he was way too slow.

Now at Road Atlanta which is a higher hp track it would be more difficult for me.

Barry H.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Thanks Quick. PM me with your address. I have some other good footage in my camcorder (and it has a wide angle lens) but the DAMN thing would not eject my tape or run when I got home from the track. I am afraid the vibration riddled enviroment of my car with it mounted on the roll cage on an IO Port might have taken its toll. If I can get that "sumbitch" to spit out the tape I will have to see what else it has (besides a lot of shaking under braking due to hotspotted rotor). This footage I have on tape now is from my brother in laws camera we mounted.

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Larry's car:


The Yellow Exige behind me that I walked away from (nice damn car):


The gray one I passed at the end of the first lap onto the front straight and walked pulled away from by a large margin. Did him the same way twice that day:


The turn I am talking about where cars go up too high (Larry you do it too along with a lot of people including instructors. Try the middle line next time it is much faster belive it or not) The black Z is doing the high line in the picture:


The very fun blind hill on track out turn leading up to a downhill then uphill sweeper. Have to be confident of you throttle application because if you are too hard when you see the FIA curbing coming it is too late:



The fast yellow exige (drool) with a driver not guite up to his car's capabilities yet on the back straight esse:


The Back Esse, wide variety of cars in the novie group from vettes to Taurus SHO. I am instructing the dark green mini:


$20,000 Virtual GT simulator with Barber track on it we used for a virtual drive around for novices and intermediate prior to them going on the track and for them to use between sessions. Pretty cool huh.


Novice group 600hp mustang with a driver who made the mistake of "punching" the throttle over the short but steep uphill rise coming out of turn 4, got into the marbles, when the car loaded back down after the rise it took a vector, swerved, hith the tire wall and then the gaurdrail. Ouch.


The front of the mustang:


No pictures of my car in that it is not "photo op" worthy. I have one with me behind the Lotus and the supra which I will scan (brother in law took film photos).

Barry H.
 

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barry you are mistaken on the yellow lotus. i talked to the owner if you remember it was a european modle of which only 60 were made.the owner said it was an elise. david leonard p.s. also the guy in the mustang if you remember when you and i set out cones his tire marks were about a car to a car and a half to drivers right ,not where you want to be under w.o.t.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
That is an Elise? Hell it does not look like one. Doesn't look or sound stock either. Did not know it was the european model. Hell not much difference between the two in performance (some but not much unless it is a Rover powered car). I talked to Craig post incident (when he was leaving the event) about those tire marks and the mustang. He told me that those marks we saw laying out cones was I guess "phase two" of the accident secquence. Craig said the student was too hard on the throttle and was initially left out of four (and the marbles were getting built up in that area) and when the car loaded again with all that throttle it vectored driver's right and then the big skid left heading for the hard stuff. I told him what we saw and it looked like a "pinch up" accident and above was his response.

Instead of "slow zo6" you need to change it to "no z06". Get you another motor!!

Barry H.
 

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[
Instead of "slow zo6" you need to change it to "no z06". Get you another motor!!

Barry H.[/QUOTE] barry I am giving the rodents thier viagra as we speak
 

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bwill said:
Cough, Cough, now Larry you did let me by coming out of three (I got earlier throttle on you) and I am sure you could have pulled on me coming into the hairpin, BUT I opened up a gap on you and you were not on my bumper at the end of straights. But remember I worked my way up to you in the first place to be able to get a run out of turn three.From what I can figure I pulled about 5 seconds out over the four or five laps I was out in your session. When I backed out of the throttle to cool down coming out of the museum turn it took you I think 7 seconds to come by me on full boil so I will knock two seconds off for my forward motion cruising at low speed out of the turn. I need to get the video posted up somewhere. I guess we will have to settle this "differing recall" at the next event Barber event!! LOL. Go ahead turn up the boost.

.....

Barry H.
Barry needs to get his mirror fixed!! You were in no danger of me passing you, but at no time were you more than 1-2 seconds ahead of me!!!
Yeah - we will have a go next time!! I need to do it in a earlier session - I got the red mist that last session. That's why I got sloppy and went off track.
And I know the boost would only help a little in the straights. Probably kill me in the turns!
There was a yellow Elise in the advanced group - I think he may have moved up from the intermediate group. It was not an Exige.
 

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bwill said:
Larry's car:
........

The turn I am talking about where cars go up too high (Larry you do it too along with a lot of people including instructors. Try the middle line next time it is much faster belive it or not) ........
No pictures of my car in that it is not "photo op" worthy. I have one with me behind the Lotus and the supra which I will scan (brother in law took film photos).

Barry H.
Heh - that was after my magnetic numbers curled up and I had to revert to painters tape!

Yeah - I think I am going into turn 2 a little fast and having trouble reeling in the apex.

Was that your brother standing out before the start/finish snapping pics? Anyway, I didn't know anyone took film anymore. I couldn't afford it!!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hey Larry,
Yeah I saw you back there in the mirror. You were maintaining contact. Turn 2 is just weird where the line is. You actually stay tight around the inside by about five feet or so and just wait to see the FIA curbing come up and as soon as I see it, I am in the throttle. I apex it a few feet earlier than most to get an earlier throttle opening which with my hamster mobile is required. Ride with me the next time and I will show you what I am talking about. Barber has some funky lines in places you would think would not be right but actually are. Some are lines you just take distance out of the track.

There was only one yellow Lotus and David corrected me on it being a rare edition Elise. If he was fast he sure was not when I went out. Very cool looking car though. The one in the picture is the one you are talking about right?

Are you going to run in advanced at Panoz if I come so we can throw down at Road Atlanta? You should have the advantage there. Good to see you as always.

I know slow z06 can't stand to be without a car for long. Get the stud rodents going man!!

Barry H.
 

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bwill said:
Hey Larry,
Yeah I saw you back there in the mirror. You were maintaining contact. Turn 2 is just weird where the line is. You actually stay tight around the inside by about five feet or so and just wait to see the FIA curbing come up and as soon as I see it, I am in the throttle. I apex it a few feet earlier than most to get an earlier throttle opening which with my hamster mobile is required. Ride with me the next time and I will show you what I am talking about. Barber has some funky lines in places you would think would not be right but actually are. Some are lines you just take distance out of the track.

There was only one yellow Lotus and David corrected me on it being a rare edition Elise. If he was fast he sure was not when I went out. Very cool looking car though. The one in the picture is the one you are talking about right?

Are you going to run in advanced at Panoz if I come so we can throw down at Road Atlanta? You should have the advantage there. Good to see you as always.

I know slow z06 can't stand to be without a car for long. Get the stud rodents going man!!

Barry H.
You know, instructors I have had at Barber have taken the center line through 2 with a relatively hard turn in to the curbing. You are right that I need to try a few different lines to get a better feel. I sure can't hug the inside like you can. And I'm not sure I could transfer much knowledge from riding in your car to mine!! Maybe you can toodle mine around a couple of laps looking for the fatass, I mean fastest, line! Of course, you have to learn to drive a single turbo automatic !! It's a bit weird for the road course and a little limiting as far as keeping the rpms where I want them.

And that was the Elise I was talking about. He caught me late in the last session and passed. Nice guy too, he was next to me in the paddock (big motorhome).

I am not sure which group to sign up for at Panoz - I'm still learning, but I think I can stay out of the way now!! *Maybe* the straights would give me some advantage, but 5-6 and 10 won't!!

I'm also hoping to get one more track day out of the Victoracers. Haven't ordered (or decided on) their replacement yet.

And it was a good day at Barber!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
On the tires, Larry (Repman) has been running Toyo RA-1s on his supra and likes them. They are a step up from the Victoracers. I am running Kumho V710s which are stickier than RA-1s but of course my tire size is much smaller than yours. I like the V710s. You could run the Hoosier S05s which are sticky and with your ABS you don't have to worry about locking them up (they are light tires and more prone to lock up on braking pulse spikes). I have heard several people comment favorably about the new Avon Tech R tires. See you at the track!!

Barry H.
 

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I appreciate hearing if anybody else who might see this thread also considers the Toyo RA-1's to be "a step up from the Victoracers".

I've never had the RA-1 but didn't consider them to be a step up and maybe I'm wrong and that can open more possibilities for me.

If you can change tires at the track the 710's are very appealing to me, but I'm more leary about driving to the track with them then I am on Victoracers. Even close-by Pocono is 1-1/2hr drive for me and if it drizzles on the way the 710's could be scary.

I have never seen the Avon Tech R in manly "Supra" sizes just whimpy Honda sizes ;) They do have a 275/40-17 but next size down is 225/45-17.
 
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