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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im gonna paint my front bumper and I was wondering is there any new flex agents that have come out that are real good for this application? I havent kept up with the latest and greatest in the autobody world.
 

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t

We use Sherwin Williams at our shop and flex is added into the clear. We use 7000 series. scuff the cover with 400 or finner. spray a very light coat of adhesion promoter and then paint it again. if you are starting wiith a new bumper basically do the same thing but after the light coat of adhesion promotor you need to seal the bumper then basecoat followed by clear.
later,
brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The guy that did my m3 bumper mentioned "acid etching". Ever used this type of method. So far this bumper has gone thru alot of long distance trips and it looks great. Everything else around the bumper has road abrasion.
 

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iSketch Master!
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I thought you only needed to etch bare metal? Otherwise you just need a plastic adhesion promoter and a sealant/primer before painting. Sherwin Williams online has little "training" vid that shows you how and what you should use for different materials.

Alex
 

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I work with sherwin williams right now but had used many different products. depending on what product line your using its sometimes call for different procedures. You need to use the plastic adhesion promoter on the raw plastic you have sanded. So what I'm saying if its down to raw plastic it will have fuzz to it from sanding then you will need the promoter and then primer once primer is sanded with 400 grit paper or finner you then will pull it in booth or where ever your painting. then do your normal blow off with compressed air to free of dust and wipe down with your precleaner and your ready to paint. you will need to put sealer on the areas you have primer to fill the fine scratches left by sanding. then you will go with your basecoat and then clearcoat.


As far as acid etching he probably just put adhesion promoter people call it different things.

etch primer is for bare metal parts like I said before adhesion promoter is only needed on your bare plastics parts or if your sanding on plastic and break thru in a major way not just little spots. Sealent is not the same as primer. primer is used after the body work is done and your fillimg all the scratches and imperfections in the body work. sealer is used in the paint booth to fill in all the fine scratches from sanding with 400 grit sandpapper or rougher. Another thing if your painting just a front bumper or any one panel or whatever your doing if you not painting the whole vehicle you don't need to prime or seal the whole panel just the area that is effected. so when you go to put the basecoat you can just cover the spot that is repaired and blend the color across the rest of the panel. If not your going to be doing what you call panel painting which is putting color on the whole panel which may led to the color not matching. hope this helps out
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I had an issue a while back with solvent popping. How long do you guys wait in between coats?
 

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I had an issue a while back with solvent popping. How long do you guys wait in between coats?
i use dupont so it may vary, but your question would depend on how "hot" the reducer your using is and how heavy the coat is ....the faster the reducer the less time you need to wait...but even w/ the fastest reducer you still need to wait at least 4-5 minutes..also a heavier coat requires more flash time

also there are two other reasons i can think of that can lead to having solvent pop.... one is if your air pressure is to low it can result in solvent pop, the other is if you start the bake cycle to soon
 

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ELITECUSTOMBODY
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I work with sherwin williams right now but had used many different products. depending on what product line your using its sometimes call for different procedures. You need to use the plastic adhesion promoter on the raw plastic you have sanded. So what I'm saying if its down to raw plastic it will have fuzz to it from sanding then you will need the promoter and then primer once primer is sanded with 400 grit paper or finner you then will pull it in booth or where ever your painting. then do your normal blow off with compressed air to free of dust and wipe down with your precleaner and your ready to paint. you will need to put sealer on the areas you have primer to fill the fine scratches left by sanding. then you will go with your basecoat and then clearcoat.


As far as acid etching he probably just put adhesion promoter people call it different things.

etch primer is for bare metal parts like I said before adhesion promoter is only needed on your bare plastics parts or if your sanding on plastic and break thru in a major way not just little spots. Sealent is not the same as primer. primer is used after the body work is done and your fillimg all the scratches and imperfections in the body work. sealer is used in the paint booth to fill in all the fine scratches from sanding with 400 grit sandpapper or rougher. Another thing if your painting just a front bumper or any one panel or whatever your doing if you not painting the whole vehicle you don't need to prime or seal the whole panel just the area that is effected. so when you go to put the basecoat you can just cover the spot that is repaired and blend the color across the rest of the panel. If not your going to be doing what you call panel painting which is putting color on the whole panel which may led to the color not matching. hope this helps out
:1poke: the guy was asking about flex agent, you may want to take a note here, there are dozens of primers that are called primer-surfacer, which can be used as a sealer,not a "Sealent",also there are quite a few primers that can be converted to sealer

rivdog,I know SEM has great flex agent, if you think you need to mix some in the paint/clear,but really there is no need for flex agent in all latest paint systems,just make sure to follow the mixing ratio closely,if you overdo it, you're screwed,the paint will allways be sticky, as bathgate said, if you have a new bumper, use adhesion promoter ,make sure it's for raw plastic, not primered or previously painted surfaces, I personally love the results of Plastic Magic adhesion promoter and have been using it on primed and raw plastics for few years,it never failed me,whatever you do,try to avoid "Bulldog" adhesion promoter, it may work on small plastic parts, but not on flexible bumpers, I found out the hard way.

http://www.urethanesupply.com/Merch...uct_Code=1050-4&Category_Code=&Store_Code=URE

If you want to use some of the best primers ,P30A - SpectraPrime™ SpectraSeal™ Color Surfacer / Sealer is superior ,has the best flex and adhesion properties,and very easy to sand,it's made by Sherwin Williams
 

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ELITECUSTOMBODY
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I had an issue a while back with solvent popping. How long do you guys wait in between coats?
mw is right, but the first thing I would do is check the tech-sheet on the particular paint system you're using, try to use same speed reducers in clear and base as well as the clear hardener,or if you're using high-solids clear make sure you use the same temperature/speed hardener as the reducer in base,normally I wait about 10-15 mins between first two coats of base ,lightly wetsand with 1000 grit ,to get rid of any roughness or dirt in base, spray a medium/light coat of base,let it flash for 20-25 mins before I shoot the clear ,

and as mw said, try not to load the clear to thick, if you do, you will have to wait about 20-25 mins between coat , but I recommend switching to Matrix AG-40 Autoglas® Euro Design Clearcoat,and you will forget about your solvent popping issues, no matter how you hose on the clear, this clear by far is the best I have used, once you try it, you will be hooked



Stefan
 

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:1poke: the guy was asking about flex agent, you may want to take a note here, there are dozens of primers that are called primer-surfacer, which can be used as a sealer,not a "Sealent",also there are quite a few primers that can be converted to sealer

try to avoid "Bulldog" adhesion promoter, it may work on small plastic parts, but not on flexible bumpers, I found out the hard way.
Sorry some times I might get carried away. The primer/sealer I use now through sherwin williams does use a converter when I'm not explaining the process in person try to stay away from making it confussing so thats why I explained them as to different things. My boy also found out about bulldog in a bad way I'll just say he had to take a trip to junkyard for new interior panels
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks alot guys youve been very helpful. I keep these items in mind when I take a trip to sherwin williams this weekend. Ill post up picks of the finished product. Hopefully everything will turn out as planned, thanks again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hey bathgate, where in va beach are you located? I was there from 98 to 05. Cops in pungo didnt like me to much.....lol. Their to picky down there when it comes to vehicles.
 

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I live around lynhaven mall. I work at beach ford body shop If you remember them. Yeah there know for harrasing peolple with there cars out here
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yeah I know where thats at, I still go down there to visit friends. I used to live on shipscorner and work out of oceana. I didnt mind it down there but when you get on the laws list they start pulling you over for anything.....scumbags!
 

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Just a thought I want to add....don't go thinking that adhesion promotors are a "replacement" for good ol fashioned prep work. You should always plan to prep the plastic in order to make it "want" to "accept" the materials you're spraying onto it.
Also all of us can go on and on all day about products to use, but I'm a big whore for the very basics that anyone can get a hold of ---> Comet cleanser and rubbing alcohol. Just those 2 products alone can stand up against the expensive, fancy plastic adhesion products :) And if you do have all the fancy products, there's absolutely no reason not to incorporate those easily-acquired $1 products also :D
Just some thoughts to throw out there after skimming this thread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thats cool, a big concern I had was with chipping and flexing. I was just gonna wet sand to prep the bare plastic.
 

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Thats cool, a big concern I had was with chipping and flexing. I was just gonna wet sand to prep the bare plastic.

Yeah but sanding alone doesn't complete a full prep when dealing with any plastic parts. Treat the plastic (*to draw out the releasing agents*), then sand or scuff it, then adhesion promotors etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Why is it that after priming the vehicle people take like a flat black spray can and spray very lightly all over the vehicle?
 

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Why is it that after priming the vehicle people take like a flat black spray can and spray very lightly all over the vehicle?

After block sanding, the black that is remaining indicates your imperfection/low spot etc....anything other than flat. tHIS SHOULD BE DONE A COUPLE OF TIMES TO TRULY show what is flat or not (sorry about the caps)
 
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