Apex FMIC vs. HKS Type S FMIC vs. Greddy 3 row FMIC for stock twins or small single

One thing to keep in mind with the Apex and HKS units is that neither comes with a complete set of intercooler piping. Both require the use of some of the stock intercooler upper pipes (rubber). If you intend to have full metal piping, then you would need to order replacements for the stock rubber piping and that will run you close to $200.

With this in mind, the cost difference between the three units in closer to $200. The Greddy unit comes with fully polished piping and end-tanks and is significantly larger than either of the others. If the possibility exists that you will ever upgrade to a Single, the Greddy is capable of supporting all but the largest of Single turbos. The Apex and HKS Type S are not generally recommended for anything greater than 550rwhp or so.

I have heard mixed reviews on the Blitz unit regarding fitment.
Some members have claimed to have major fitment issues while others have had no problems. Barring fitment issues, I have seen the actual unit installed and it looks to be a high quality piece.

All in all, I would recommend the Greddy 3 row. Looking to having one installed on my Supra within the next few weeks!

Good luck with whatever you decide.
KGB

thanks for the kind words Yosh, yes the car is very strong, i strongly believe that my car is very capable of 12.0-12.2 qtr miles, but i am not one to claim any numbers til i run them. yoshies car definitely has 12.0 to 11.xx potential, judging from his 2.3 60ft and his 12.6 timeslip, mathmaticly its capable of 12.0 sec with some better tires. the previous owner had owned 2 supras from the past, he hung out with guilly and the infamous az crew back when he lived in Az. he only had the car for a 1k miles or so, just enuff time to put all the mods in the car for me
anyways,performance mods awaiting install for the car are kyb agx/eibachs, apexi safc, profec b. the only thing that i dont have is the fmic. i believe that this will ensure pretty much an 11.xx qtr for me when i have all the mods in, but we'll just have to w8 til i get a timeslip......
how is your car doing chuck?? man i never see u out on westhiemer at all, i would love to check out your car sometime, what have you done to your car??
later

IMO, there is a lot of speculation on the size of FMIC that's needed, and little if any of it is based upon testing. I think people tend to just think, Well, if there are two different sizes, then the big one must be required for the highest output cars, and the smaller ones must not be capable of doing the job on the high-HP cars. IMO, that line of thinking is not necessarily accurate. The 4" thick core on the GReddy "3-row" does an excellent job on a big single. (BTW, there is no 3-row, it's a single wide tube -- not a 3-row -- at least the one I have is.) I have charge air temp monitors on my car and with compressor discharge temps in the 350 F range at high boost on the T-64, charge air temps at the throttle body were only about 10-15 degrees above ambient on the street. (BTW, sitting in traffic or at a red light the charge throttle body temp will increase to about 140F pretty quickly. It takes a mile or two of driving at speed for it to cool back down.) I haven't noticed the throttle body temps with the SP74, but I've noticed that the compressor discharge temps at a given boost pressure are lower than they were with the T-64.

Even on the dyno with the SP74 at 29 PSI, charge air temps were only 84 F at the throttle body with an ambient temperature of approximately 65 F. I was very surprised at that. FWIW, 9 months earlier in humid, 87-ish degree weather with the T-64, the throttle body temps were in the 140+ range when we were making several near back-to-back pulls (didn't watch the temps that closely back then, but that's pretty close, if not exactly accurate). The 20 degrees drop in ambient temp and an extra minute or so of cooling time between pulls and the SP74 vs. the T-64 seems to have lowered the charge air temp by a good 50-60 degrees F.

But, bottom line is that the GReddy 4" thick core (so-called 3-row) will bring the charge air temp back to within 10-15 degrees of ambient when under way at high boost. Unless someone has proven that the thicker core will do a meaningfully better job, I don't think it can just be assumed that it will. According to Corky Bell in his book Maximum Boost, an air-to-air intercooler does about 70% of it's cooling in the first 30% of its thickness (or some such), and adding thickness to a core does increasingly less and less in terms of increasing cooling capacity. Therefore, by no means is a 5" thick core going to provide 25% more actual charge cooling than a 4" core. In fact, if you have a choice in how you get the total volume of the IC, a larger frontal area is WAY more desirable than a thicker core. And another thing, if you've cut away your under-bumper tray and thereby eliminated the "ducting" for your FMIC, you've made a big mistake. You need to force air through the FMIC. Otherwise it's going to just divert around the core to areas of lower pressure.

There is also the pressure loss issue to consider, as well as the fact that the thicker a core is, the less cooling air is going to pass over it with a given airflow or pressure. That could become an issue with engine cooling if the radiator is blocked by the thick IC core.

So, who knows which IC is best? I certainly don't, but my findings with the charge air temp monitors and SW's 154 MPH trap speeds tend to indicate that the GReddy "3-row" ain't too shabby.

Steve

Steve, there has been some evidence in testing done on other cars that an intercoooler often acts as a heatsink. Water sprayed on an intercooler doing a hard uphill pull will apparently not show immediate results. Having a larger intercooler allows for greater heat absorbtion (sp?!). In other words it takes longer for the intercooler to overheat and allow charge air to climb upwards. This is supposed to be most evident on the street and on road courses, not on 1/4mile pulls.

Mind you I'm not stating that the 4row or anything bigger than the Greddy 3row is necessarily "better" just playing Devil's advocate. The Greddy 3row is what I intend to purcahse as it represents a very good bang for the buck and should meet my needs. I do allow for the idea that the bigger intercooler might have advantages in certain specific circumstances that I hope to never encounter.

FWIW - the article I read concerning the intercooler as a heatsink was on an Aussie WEB site that has both subscription and free articles. An excellent site who's name I can never remember! They've got some good stuff on building MBC and water injection systems too...