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Former Moderator
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Discussion Starter #1
We have a single turbo car here that has a TechEdge unit, and it is not perfect to say the least. The readings are alright, but it seems that the sensor is not very long and the display unit takes up too much space for the owner's taste.

We've been looking at alternatives, mainly the AEM because of its ability to fit in the stock clock location, thus eleminating space the other took. What would be your best recommendations guys? Which one is the most accurate and reliable?

BTW, the car runs on the AEM EMS if it makes any difference.

Thanks! :)

-Olivier
 

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Can't go wrong with FJO. FJO also has a gauge type display if thats what the owners looking for. I would also look into the Innovate Motorsports wideband as well.
 

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2jz powered
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i have the innovative wideband and it works great. the only down side to the unit is that its bulky which i don't mind since i don't leave it in the car. i also use it on other cars to tune with. the FJO is a good unit and uses a NTK sensor which, mentioned above, last long with leaded gas. any of these units would work great including the AEM.
 

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Under Construction
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Olivier Caza said:
We have a single turbo car here that has a TechEdge unit, and it is not perfect to say the least. The readings are alright, but it seems that the sensor is not very long and the display unit takes up too much space for the owner's taste.

We've been looking at alternatives, mainly the AEM because of its ability to fit in the stock clock location, thus eleminating space the other took. What would be your best recommendations guys? Which one is the most accurate and reliable?

BTW, the car runs on the AEM EMS if it makes any difference.

Thanks! :)

-Olivier

I love my FJO.
 

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Old School
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The Innovate LM1 can use either Bosch or NTK sensor simply by changing jumpers on the motherboard.
 

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Hardtopper
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FJO with the digital display mounted in the stock clocks screen, super sleek, and accurate...
great mod,..

Its what Im running
 

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Here's a reply from a Motec guy....

I use the AEM and its been fine. The sensors are reasonable also at 63.00. I would need another season on mine to fully evaluate it for sure.
FJO has a very good reputation we've had this discussion alot in the last sevaral months. I'd say search and you'll get some good and differing answers.
Here's his reply........

"as for the lambda sensors - I personnally like the Bosch unit better than the NTK. Here are my reasons.

All things being equal on a common exhausted port Rotary the Bosch sensor seems to have a slightly faster response to transients than the NTK UEGO PRO

The Price - I have used the bosch for over a year on a car which runs C16 and havent failed the sensor yet. However I did the tuneup in the car and it does not puke black smoke across the sensor nor does it overheat the sensor. Also I have the sensor mounted relatively close to the turbo outlet in the exhaust stream so there is not much exhaust piping for water to condense in and crack the sensor.

I also have a Bosch sensor in a carbureted pump gas pickup truck (unleaded) I am now 2 years and counting - probably be dead when I go to drive home tonight now.

As for marketplace, we are happy where we are at. Our infrastructure and model are such that a less expensive product is not really feasible at the level that users have come to expect from MoTeC.

Our low cost options are the M4 and M48 ECU's which are mature products for the 4-8 cylinder market and 2 rotor rotary guys."

Regards to all,
Shane Tecklenburg
 

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Everyone I have seen has had lots o' trouble with the AEM wideband when running leaded race gas. :( Seeing how I love C16, the FJO will be the one I get. It's pricey by itself, but Hpfreaks has an excellent package deal for the AEM with FJO if you haven't already bought an AEM.....
 

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chnco said:
HKS Knock Amp :)
Exactly. Six-wire, NTK sensor, from 9.0 to 21.0, IIRC, very fast and very accurate. Not the cheapest, but the best this side of a twice as expensive MoTec (great unit, btw). Plus, it "talks" to my F-CON V-Pro EMS and my HKS EVC-Pro boost controller

Ken.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks a lot for the replies so far. I'll do my investigation in terms of price and availability of the different widebands. :)

-Olivier
 

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BLITZSUPRA said:
Everyone I have seen has had lots o' trouble with the AEM wideband when running leaded race gas. :( Seeing how I love C16, the FJO will be the one I get. It's pricey by itself, but Hpfreaks has an excellent package deal for the AEM with FJO if you haven't already bought an AEM.....
When you say "lots o' trouble", do you have any timeframes or mile durations between the senor failing?

I hope that even if the AEM's sensor has a life that is only 1/3 to 1/2 of the FJO's, the lower cost of replacement of the AEM sensor will be a wash?!

Thanks,
Brad
 

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I'd like to reiterate that, in addition to great data logging features, a patented cell sensing circuit technology and calibration that does not rely on a fixed value resistor, the Innovate LM1 will work with *both* the NTK and Bosch sensors.

So you can swap between them to your hearts content.

Other than the bulky size it kicks the other WBO2 asses. ;)

IMO...
 

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I have been researching what wideband unit I wanted to go with. Dusty has recently (2/05) made Innovate Motorsports LM-1 available to purchase on MVP. I am really interested in this kit thaks to this and a few other threads.

When looking for infromation on the Bosch and NTK sensors I searched on the Innovate Motorsports forum and Klaus the inovator for Innovate Motorsports had some good insite on why he went with Bosch.

"The differences between the sensors are:

1. Bosch has high heat sensitivity. It needs to be actively temperature controlled while the NTK has typically a passive temp. control by holding its heater voltage constant (very simple to do).

2. Bosch is sensitive to housing temp. NTK is not

3. Bosch has about 5-10 times faster response speed than NTK due to its planar design (measured delay time between pump cell current change and sensor cell output: NTK ~50msec, Bosch < 5 msec).

4. Bosch has less than 1/2 the NTK's sensitivity to back pressure. This means the readings are richer than actual on the rich side, leaner than actual on the lean side when on the lean side when back pressure is present.

5. Bosch sensor heats up more than twice as fast than NTK. This means it's also more susceptible to heat shock from condensation water because the NTK's slower warmup allows the exhaust system to warm up before the sensor can be damaged. The Bosch's fast warmup is required for smog reasons (it's main application). On the other hand the NTK is a more open design that is more susceptible to damage when hit by debris or water when hot.

6. With respect to survivability with leaded fuel they are about equal.

For most tuning applications, specially where fast response is required (not steady state load) the Bosch is the better sensor to use. The slower response of the NTK causes 'smearing' of the values. This leads to prettier graphs. A case of pretty vs. true and real (as it's often with girls)."

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1197
 

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Take a look at the DynoJet Wideband Commander. It uses the Bosch LSU4 sensor and comes with an analog gauge with a build in warning lamp.
It datalogs internally, and playsback on a computer or can be exported as a text file and also has a modular programmable output for nitrous, methanol injection, timing retard, etc etc
A buddy has on installed in his turbo Toyota with a 2 stage N2O setup, and sets the nitrous to flow from 3000rpm to 6500, it will shut off and restart progressively if AF exceeds 12.5

Pretty need piece of equipment, a lot of failsafe features for your turbo, n2o setup etc etc.

If you look carefully, you can get them at $475 for the complete kit. To me t's the most complete wideband monitor an commander on the market

www.widebandcommander.com
 
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