Supra Forums banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
2,279 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This is something I kind of touched on, on SM awhile ago. Unfortunately the thread kinda died out so it wasn't addressed. Personally I think it warrants more discussion.

This is in reply to one of the Doc's comments saying only 2 upgraded ct26 broke 400 rwhp. Not singling you out or anything doc, you just happend to be the person I replied to.

------------------
as far as possible, disagree w/me all you want, but I don't think it is. note that the total US MKIII population is around 110000, I'd call 2 cars a rare occurrence.....make it 2000 cars and it might be "possible"...
-------------------


That is a very poor comparison. You can only contrast like cars. Thus the sampling group is much, much smaller. Wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to be comparing the 60-1ct26 car with all those NAs that make up the 110k number.

At max there are maybe ~1.5-200 folks with an upgraded ct26 running around north America. How many of them have dynoed and posted their results on the net? So now the number drops even lower for the sampling pool for known results.

At max, I have personal only seen around 15 upgraded stocker dyno numbers. Of those 4 have broken 400 rwhp. The others not on the big list just barely made it though. This drops it down to 4/15. Hell even worst case at 1/10 (if you don't count the ones I can't give you direct links to), that's kind of orders of magnitude away from the 1/55000 claim...
Most of the CT26 60trim or 60-1 dynos that I have seen are only in the 16-18 psi range. Not really pushing their turbo all that hard. This usually put them in the 360-380 rwhp range. It's the people that actually run those upgraded stockers at the 20+ psi range, that break 400 rwhp. Every dyno I've seen of a CT26 running 20+ has broken that number. Personally I don't think its a matter of the turbo not being able to do it, I think it's a matter of folks running pussy boost on it.
 

·
Over 10 years on SF....
Joined
·
7,892 Posts
I think some guy on SM mentioned he was using 20 psi for daily driving for awhile now, and it worked just fine. Some boosted up to 25 psi.. which is pretty crazy, at least for dynoing..
 

·
Republican
Joined
·
8,421 Posts
Doesnt Bishop run 20 psi daily?
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
2,279 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I boosted 17-18 psi daily on a stock CT26 for 2 years with no ill effects. With new bearings from the rebuild I think it could handle it with no problems. If a turbo with 90K miles could handle 17-18 without an issue, I think a fresh rebuild could handedly take 20-23 psi.
 

·
boost freak
Joined
·
10,042 Posts
eh. as much as i hate to, i have to agree w/reg- the CT's bearings and shaft are NOT meant for high boost (high boost = high shaft speeds)....
 

·
Republican
Joined
·
8,421 Posts
17-18 psi on a STOCK TURBO!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,409 Posts
thing is tho, even if most people dyno at 24 psi or whatever, they only do it for bragging rights, which is gay IMO, because dynoing isnt really about bragging rights its about setting up your car right... So personally, i cant really beleive anyone until i do it myself or see someone do it... i agree the ct has potential, but its the same shaft and bearing thats used in a stock car making 6psi and 230 hp... and even then they fail pretty quick if you drive the car hard.
Hard to say really...

Ang
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
2,279 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I've run more than that. I've done 20. But keep in mind, even on the 17-18 runs I had race gas, nice intercooler proper fueling, etc. The max I would ever run on pump was like 14-15. I rarely had pump in the tank though. I'm not the only person that has run the stocker that high, I know many folks that have.

I truely beleive it's just SOGI stigmata that says the stocker can't do more. For a stock turbo we have a very large one. There are smaller stock turbos that run more boost than us. Anything more than 14 psi is nothing but hot air? Bullshit. I walked the hell outa the local mk3s (we have a very large group) that ran 14 psi to my 18. Oh well.

I can't test the upgraded CT can break 400rwhp with no problems theory because thats not the new turbo going on my ride. So I wanted to talk about it more.
 

·
TheFastCoonAss
Joined
·
6,083 Posts
Hell I don't understand most of the guys on this board anyways. All everyone ever talks about is RWHP, RWHP, RWHP. Look at the top quarter mile times sticky, number two on the list is MKIIISupraGuy, accomplished with an upgraded CT. I'll take that combination anyday over a giant turbo with huge dyno numbers. That's a REAL WORLD accomplishment to me, something that you can actually kick some ass with. I guarantee you that a CT will kick out over 400 RWHP, but it wouldn't last very long after that. Wouldn't really prove anything either. Might just be me, but I'll take a kickass all around street car over a dyno slip anyday.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
2,279 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Might just be me, but I'll take a kickass all around street car over a dyno slip anyday.
I feel you on that one. Thats why I have 4.3s out back and stripped to hell (among other things). I'm just saying I think it's dead wrong to think that upgraded CT26s making 400rwhp is some how an abberation.
 

·
Bipolar
Joined
·
663 Posts
If anyone potentially has the comp maps and engineering data on the CT it's Reg. I remember him telling 2 people, on two different occasions, that running the CT past 17 psi is inviting early failure. The turbo was not designed for that high of shaft speed, and cannot reliably deal with the loads put on the shaft and bearings. This gets exponentially worse with changes to the weights for the compressor/turbine wheels. Bigger mass wheel cold side (57,60,60-1, etc), lighter mass wheel on the hot side (clipped wheel). He also made mention that the oiling system for the turbo, from the feed lines to the actual internal galleries, are not designed to support such high shaft speeds.


Most people only have a couple/few years on the upgraded CT running high boost without failure, so it's kind of hard to tell how long they will last. Of course the quality of the rebuild helps dictate longevity too.
 

·
Go All Electric
Joined
·
1,183 Posts
I agree with what everyone is saying, but I don't want to spend too much time debating etc. I think that the uprgraded cts are good for mid 400hp range for sure and possibly better. As mentioned, this will probably decrease longevity of the turbo but first it is only a 450$ plug and play upgrade and second I wuoldn't drive the car as a DD anyway ... get a good commuter and make the car a summer car/special occasion/drag/road race etc.

For the heck of it: The highest power that I have seen put out with the ct26 60-1 is 452HP at 22psi by Matt Talbert. I think that somebody will pass that mark eventually and don't forget about JBL and MKIIISupraGuy who are both surely over 400HP. The turbo will do it ... period.

Not arguing, just wanted to add a little info. I agree with almost all of the above posts. I am a big fan of a flat power curve. I will take a flat power curve of a dyno queen MOST of the time. In some cases it really wouldn't matter.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,409 Posts
im not saying it cant be done, ive ran very hi psi on the stocker with my WI, but ive also seen ppl run more than me and blow it up in under a month...

Also, if i paid a good 500 to rebuild my turbo to a 60 trim i dont think ide be ready to run it at 25 psi all the time... Not to mention were talking about short spurts (esp when it comes to 10 second dyno pulls), ive ran mine for hours hard at 13-14 psi, i wouldnt really do more, but for street and drag, more can be better. Personally i dont think it would last too long on a road course at that boost, or even on the street... but what do i know really? i havent had one... so this is all theory...

Ang
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,442 Posts
Yeepp.. i asked Reg about CT-26 upgrade, said it was crap. I've learned that sometimes Reg knows what he's talkin about ;)
 

·
TheFastCoonAss
Joined
·
6,083 Posts
drjonez said:
eh. honestly i think talbert and JBL's cars are freaks....no one else has come close to their power levels.....
I think alot more of it has to do with the fact that they are really knowledgable people, and also the supporting mods that were on those cars. They were not stock cars by any means. A good example would be Dr. J, if you put a CT on your brown car as it sits, along with all of your experiences, crank up the boost to 18-20 on race gas, I'm betting you would yield similar results.
 

·
i <3 fitness chicks
Joined
·
1,585 Posts
AWIDESUPIE said:
For the heck of it: The highest power that I have seen put out with the ct26 60-1 is 452HP at 22psi by Matt Talbert.
Eh there was a lot of debate about that because the Dyno was acting up all day that day...
 

·
Go All Electric
Joined
·
1,183 Posts
JSupra88T said:
Eh there was a lot of debate about that because the Dyno was acting up all day that day...
Yeah I read a lot about it a while back from a search. I think that the corrected numbers were at 402hp ... but people argued over the correction to. Run a search for Matt Talkbert and 452 ans similar relative things and read about it. I remember people also saying that many dyno runs were consistant that day and that the car was tuned very well etc etc. Just search, I am tired of talking about this all the time.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top