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man whore
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317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Big thanks to Mark Conte who spent a lot of time on the phone trying to get the best turbo combo for what I wanted to do.

Also Justin at Tuning Concepts all the guys at BL who got us started with a good .96 tune.

And most of all my Builder Tuner and all around go to guy John at Adrenalin motorsports.



Stats:
run in 4th at 26-27lbs.
3.4
Built head 1mm over
Custom Adrenalin 4in oval exhaust system
Custom Adrenalin fuel system
And all the other shit you got to have…..$$$$$

Review:
Most people consider the 6765 with a .96 hot side a very responsive turbo – but it did not work for me, its defiantly better than many of the turbos that can make similar power but I remember RR and Auto X in my old stock twin setup and I wanted that kind of drivability just more power, a lot more .

The .96 power band was just in the wrong place for me. Getting in to it after a slower turn meant instant tire spin because the boost multiplication wall starts so low and gets up so fast. 250 Tq at 3650 to 600 Tq at 4700 = 350 ft-Ilb jump in just over 1000 RPM

You would think .58 would make this situation worse but it actually helps quit a bit. 250 Tq at about 3000 rpm to 600 Tq at 4500 rpm gives your tires 1500 RPM to deal with jump. On the road the difference is amazing. the car is much more drivable, around long sweepers I can add boost in a more controlled manner with out fear of the car sending me in to outer space. I don’t have to drive as much in the point and shoot fashion of 700 hp cars. When I do hit it the Race Logic TC can deal with what’s being thrown at it in a smother way.


In short
.96 on E85 should be good for 850 to 900 hp comes up very fast.
.58 on E85 is good for 750 is much smoother on the street and is in positive boost almost instantly.
If you want something comparable to stock twins drivability with a hell of a lot more up top this may be your setup.

If I remember right the BPU stock twins make about 270 Tq at 3000 rpm just before the second turbo kicks in and than about 370 Tq by 4300rpm (If someone has a Dyno of the stock twins please post it)
 

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Moderator, l337 M0d3r4t0r
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12,263 Posts
Here's my dyno of stock twins... I hope you get a dyno soon. I wish you weren't 3.4 though.

JDM twins, 4" blitz IC, 3" ic pipes, stock DP 3.5" catback, stock cats.
15 PSI

 

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Boost Addicted.
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1,217 Posts
Nice comparison … In my setup I chose undivided .96 housing and I'm very happy with it.
BTW the divided .58 housing will even smaller in area than the undivided .58 housing … I’m I right?
 

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The "Tactileneck"
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1,168 Posts
I hope you get a dyno soon.
:scratch:

Those were our dynos....


Nice comparison … In my setup I chose undivided .96 housing and I very happy with it.
BTW the divided .58 housing will even smaller in area than the undivided .58 housing … I’m I right?
Correct.

In my opinion this is probably one the funnest all around setups to drive on. I would probably go with an .81 or a .96 for straight street setup. But if you're looking for anything auto-X or RR this is pretty awesome.

-Jon
 

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Registered
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6,297 Posts
wow, maybe the best powerband i can recall seeing. 300+ ft-lbs at approx 3500rpm on the way to 750 wheel horse... impressive!


craig
 

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Proud MKIII Owner
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2,407 Posts
Awesome powerband on the .58 divided.
 

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man whore
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317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Awesome powerband on the .58 divided.
Its power band is just right for the street you really never have to search for the right gear to make power it just has it ready to go.

Thanks for the TT dyno here is the overlay.

This is exactly what I was going for, a setup that could out spool the stock twins and make about 2X the power.






Overlay of a ZR1 dyno before and after cams.
 

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Registered
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1,652 Posts
I wonder how this turbo would work on a stock
motor and head?? Would the .58 hotside Turbo spool just as fast?? Does anyone have
this turbo on a stock motor???
 

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Your Neighborhood Pikey
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3,341 Posts
I really dig your graph with the .58 divided housing. I have to say, I'm impressed. I would have thought the .58 housing would really choke the turbo out, but it doesn't appear so bad. I recently purchased a 6265 w/ the undivided .96 AR housing. I am about to swap that into my car from a 72mm turbo. While I am sure I will love the increased response, I am starting to wonder now if I should have opted for a smaller AR housing... Maybe something to consider in the future...

Thanks for sharing your results; very informative! I'm REALLY glad to see a trend for other Supra owners wanting more useable powerbands and cars that aren't so extreme.

+1 to you sir!

- Chris
 

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Registered
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6,297 Posts
I wonder how this turbo would work on a stock
motor and head?? Would the .58 hotside Turbo spool just as fast??..
+1

would be interesting to see the response of the same turbo on a 3.0L vs the stroker. iirc, the stroker seems to generally shift the power band to the left by about 500 or so rpm.

i wonder how a 3.0L + QSV with a .8 or .9 a/r divided turbine housing would compare to the stroker with the .58 divided housing.


craig
 

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The "Tactileneck"
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1,168 Posts
I really dig your graph with the .58 divided housing. I have to say, I'm impressed. I would have thought the .58 housing would really choke the turbo out, but it doesn't appear so bad. I recently purchased a 6265 w/ the undivided .96 AR housing. I am about to swap that into my car from a 72mm turbo. While I am sure I will love the increased response, I am starting to wonder now if I should have opted for a smaller AR housing... Maybe something to consider in the future...

Thanks for sharing your results; very informative! I'm REALLY glad to see a trend for other Supra owners wanting more useable powerbands and cars that aren't so extreme.

+1 to you sir!

- Chris
I think you nailed it Chris. If the goal is to make it full spool mid/high 3K range, draw a nice flat torque curve soon and flat all the way out, that might be the money setup. We were making ~20 pds by 3800. I'd guess you'd be capped in the low 7's or so for overall power but it would definately be fun!
 

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Your Neighborhood Pikey
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3,341 Posts
I think you nailed it Chris. If the goal is to make it full spool mid/high 3K range, draw a nice flat torque curve soon and flat all the way out, that might be the money setup. We were making ~20 pds by 3800. I'd guess you'd be capped in the low 7's or so for overall power but it would definately be fun!
When I was selecting my turbo, I really wanted to cap myself at 750whp. I recently tuned a car very similar in setup to mine with a billet 6775 on E85. We made great power and torque; it sold me to change up my setup. But, I decided I wanted something that would spool even faster, just as much torque, but less horsepower.

I make a lot more than that now with the current setup, but I am looking for something a lot more fun and less laggy. I think the increase in torque, along with the fast spool characteristics will make for a really fun car.

I think this little guy is going to be a heck of a lot of fun, especially on E85 :) My E85 pump is 2 miles from the house, and at $2.24/gallon it always makes me smile when I fill up :)


- Chris
 

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Boost Junkie
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12,693 Posts
Nice numbers! I plan on trying out the Billet 6265 w/.68 a/r next. I am anxious to see what kind of mid range numbers I get.


Steve
 

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man whore
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317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
I am defiantly not an expert on this stuff but this is what I have gathered listening to smarter people and why I did my build the way I did. I actually took some shit during this build from people asking “Y would you build a bad ass stoker and put a little turbo on it”. Well my goal for the past several years was to build a car with as good a spool as BPU stock twins and 2X the top end. I don’t know if any one else has achieved this but this car straight BPU (Intake and DP and boost controller) made 380hp so I consider 756HP close enough.

For fast spool
1. E85 30% more fuel = 30% denser charge to spin the turbo. It makes a 3 liter spool more like a 3.9 liter and a 3.4 spool about like a 4.2
2. Obviously the stoker helps and it also has the light weight crack -10 rotating mass.
3. New tech turbots like the 6765 use design and testing technology not available a few years ago. If you’re not using a turbo designed recently I think your leaving a lot on the table.


One thing I was tolled over and over again was that I would be top end limited because my 3.4 would produce more back presser than a 3.0 and with E85 that was your limiting factor. This is one of the reasons smaller engines can produce more top end power with E85 look at the EVOs running the 6765 they can make 900hp out of a 2 liter. So this is how we deal with the back presser problem.
1. a very good flowing head, my head had a complete bowl job along with a 5 angle, 1mm over valves and cams with out much overlap.
2. During my build I lost a small amount of compression due to using a thicker head gasket than stock this would hurt spool but help the top end because it lessons back presser.

I also think a Divided housing and manifold is important because its smaller over all AR Obviously increases both speed and pressers of the gass but it also controls the flow of gass better than a open design. I know plenty of people have tested and not seen any benefit to divided hot sides but they are not as worried about back presser as I am. Divided manifolds are used in super high presser diesel applications for a reason. A divided hot sides should have less turbulence and make less back presser than an open design and with 30% more volume to move I want to get it out of the way as smoothly as possible. I also have a custom oval exhaust that is the equivalent of a 4in all the way out but hangs no lower than stock, you got to love good fabricators who will actually build your crazy ideas. There is a lot of custom in this car but we will do a build thread when john gets back from Peru.
 

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man whore
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317 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·

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Vendor
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4,400 Posts
That is one serious powerband. I hope you're having fun with it. I still want to eventually send you a different set of cams for that thing and make it just that much closer to a ZR1 powerband. ;)
 

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Oh Snaps
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549 Posts
Very impressive powerband indeed. 0.58 divided is tiny!

OT: Could you post some pictures of the oval exhaust?
 
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