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Did anyone read the article in European Car this month where they compared a blown M3 vs. a 335 with a Vishnu ECU? Anyways in the article they said the 335 is to the European car crowd what the Supra is/was to the Japanese import crowd. In other words it has the same type of upgrade potential.
 

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Until I see one put 700+ rwhp on a stock block for years with no issues, I'll have to disagree with that statement:)
 

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I haven't seen the article, but that seems like a pretty fair assessment so far. It will take some time to achieve the aftermarket following that the Supra has, but probably not nearly as long anymore as it originally took for the Supra to do so. Questions definitely remain about the ultimate longevity of that BMW motor under high boost with aftermarket turbos too. ;)
 

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kthx
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I dunno the 335 engine wasnt crafted around obtaining 1000 hp on stock internals. Its higher compression and also horribly laid out. Now dont get me wrong. I like them and my gf is thinking about getting one, but as far as the next supra - not a chance. Just because it comes out of the package TT and comparable HP doesnt mean shit =\
 

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From what I've seen so far, the Horsepower Freaks E-46 M3 turbo kit looks much more appealing to me than a 335i. I haven't kept up with the HPF project, but last I saw it was looking extrmemely impressive. Plus, the 335i looks like an old woman's car compared to the muscularity of the E46 M3, and a new 335 costs a lot more than a good '02-ish M3. 400 whp (assuming you can get this out of a BPU 335) is cute, but not in the league with the 650-ish that appearsto be easily doable with the E46 M3 (again, I haven't kept up with the HPF project, so hopefully it hasn't hit any big snag).
 

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2JZ Mk2
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My guess is ATP turbo is working on a turbo kit for the 335. They had one in their parking lot that looks like they were working on.

Neat car, but for almost $50k I'd rather have a Vette.
 

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Shit, for $50k, I'd rather have a Supra :D
 

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I agree with you 100%

But definitely a cool car, and a "BPU" 335 would be a sweet daily driver.

Neat car, but for almost $50k I'd rather have a Vette.
 

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'94 TT Blk/Blk 6 spd
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Vette vs. BMW 335i ? Damn, it's pretty flattering to the 335 to even compare the two. Two cars in completely different classes being compared shows the latitude the 335i sedan or coupe, can cover. I was extremely impressed by a 335i after a test drive, even comparing it to my Dad's E46 M3. If your needs are a comfortable, quick, manual (or tip) luxury sedan, I don't think a 335 can be beat. Add the PROcede or the TurboTuner to the equation, and you have a car that is extremely streetable, can fit 4 people, and can keep up with a large percentage of cars from streetlight to highway. With some trap speeds getting closer to 110mph. We'll see what further development continues to evolve, but I am looking forward to seeing the results of more advanced tuning and modifications. Hell, this motor hasn't been in tuners hands for long. Give it time. Hopefully R&D will come qicker than the 'not even out' E46 M3 single turbo system, a car that has been around since early '01.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
With the Vishnu ECU they gained 50whp. It had nearly 100lbs of torque than the blown M3 and only a few hp less.
 

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I dunno the 335 engine wasnt crafted around obtaining 1000 hp on stock internals. Its higher compression and also horribly laid out. Now dont get me wrong. I like them and my gf is thinking about getting one, but as far as the next supra - not a chance. Just because it comes out of the package TT and comparable HP doesnt mean shit =\
Where are the articles or statements that declare that the Supra was crafted in order obtain 1000 hp on Stock Internals? I didn't know the Supra could do 1000 hp reliably on stock internals.....

Doesn't really matter, cause the fact of the matter is that BMW has a Twin Turbo motor in a hot looking car that with just a simple tune can put down some nice RWHP numbers. BMW does make good motors - the M3 is a perfect example of it's ability to handle boost (when it wasn't even made for it stock). So while some of you have no faith in BMW's engine - I for one do, and see the 335 becoming exactly what the article inferred to " the 335 is to the European car crowd what the Supra is/was to the Japanese import crowd"....but only time will tell.
 

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http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=120061

"All at once the BMW coupe that we've considered the leader in its class finally decides it's had enough. With its oil temperature pinned at 300 degrees F and its coolant temperature climbing rapidly, the turbocharged Bavarian wonder engages its limp-home mode and we crawl pathetically back to the pits."

This is stock. How do you think it would do with 500rwhp?
 

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A few years back Saad was at a race in Pomona with his Silver Supra. Some TRD engineers came to check out his car and asked him some questions about the car. During the conversation they told him that within TRD they called the 2JZ their "1000 HP engine".

Toyota knew very well what the engine was capable of, there's no other reason why they would build such a strong engine. And 1000 HP on stock internals is relable as long as you have a good enough fuel system, engine management system and run appropriate octane.

Where are the articles or statements that declare that the Supra was crafted in order obtain 1000 hp on Stock Internals? I didn't know the Supra could do 1000 hp reliably on stock internals.....
 

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Talking price wise. But the 335 IS a sweet car.

Vette vs. BMW 335i ? Damn, it's pretty flattering to the 335 to even compare the two. Two cars in completely different classes being compared shows the latitude the 335i sedan or coupe, can cover. I was extremely impressed by a 335i after a test drive, even comparing it to my Dad's E46 M3. If your needs are a comfortable, quick, manual (or tip) luxury sedan, I don't think a 335 can be beat. Add the PROcede or the TurboTuner to the equation, and you have a car that is extremely streetable, can fit 4 people, and can keep up with a large percentage of cars from streetlight to highway. With some trap speeds getting closer to 110mph. We'll see what further development continues to evolve, but I am looking forward to seeing the results of more advanced tuning and modifications. Hell, this motor hasn't been in tuners hands for long. Give it time. Hopefully R&D will come qicker than the 'not even out' E46 M3 single turbo system, a car that has been around since early '01.
 

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there are a few e36/e34 bmws with 6-900hp on stock internals. And beaten on a good basis. 335i hasnt proven anything yet.
 

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The JZA80 has been proven in over 13-14 years. We can only tell in 5 - 6 years really what builders are trying to do with that car.
 

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A few years back Saad was at a race in Pomona with his Silver Supra. Some TRD engineers came to check out his car and asked him some questions about the car. During the conversation they told him that within TRD they called the 2JZ their "1000 HP engine".

Toyota knew very well what the engine was capable of, there's no other reason why they would build such a strong engine. And 1000 HP on stock internals is relable as long as you have a good enough fuel system, engine management system and run appropriate octane.
Exactly. A manufacturer does NOT accidentally build a car as rugged and 'overengineered' as the MkIV Supra. And it's not as if only a piece or two can withstand 1000 HP, but rather the entire driveline on a 6-speed car with the exception of the clutch. It was no doubt thoroughly calculated.

Not exactly related, but an interesting anecdote nonetheless: A good friend here locally road races his stock long block single turbo Supra and was practicing various shift patterns for getting through a tight corner at the end of a high speed (155 mph) straight. After a few laps of slowing down enough to go directly from 5th to 2nd gear on the first downshift, he absent mindedly went from 5th to 2nd BEFORE slowing down enough. The result was an over-rev to 10,900 RPM on the AEM log. :nervous: The car has several hours of track time since and has so far shown no signs of damage.
 

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I'd like to think Toyota intentionally over-engineered the Supra to withstand 1000 hp. I just can't believe it. Is there any proof that Toyota either turned up the boost or tested the engine and drivetrain 700 hp MORE than what they rated the car as - cause that's what your making it sound like.

I have no doubt Toyota engineered this car to withstand more horsepower than stock, but to say they intentionally did it....well you can state that all day long, there's really no proof. I don't see a company building a car to withstand so much more hp, and then leaving it up to the Tuners to extract it. They just built an awesome car that can handle crazy hp - that's how I see and to me it was not a calculated venture.

What engines did toyota use when they raced the supra? The 2jz?

I think if you look out there in the car world you find lot of engines and drive trains that have been "Over-Engineered".
 
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