vvti aside, you have to pick one or the other. For a street car, I would want the faster spooling setup.

Al

 

I have been waiting for a mkiv 8474 dyno review for a while, thank you. I am going with the 8474 myself with my vvt-i GTE for the response and reliability at 600s which looks like you've achieved with ease. I wonder how much more responsive/ and powerful it may be with Vvt-i.

How much boost are you running?

With the 1.45AR you should be able to push a lot more on a built motor but but may compromise the current response. Why not go with the 1.05 and EWG to manage more boost without BW restrictions? You should be to reach 800s as it's rated to 900s. With the 94 series you're turning into the dyno queen unless you have quite the build with a stroker kit.

 

I have been waiting for a mkiv 8474 dyno review for a while, thank you. I am going with the 8474 myself with my vvt-i GTE for the response and reliability at 600s which looks like you've achieved with ease. I wonder how much more responsive/ and powerful it may be with Vvt-i.

Its been interesting to see all of the pet brands that each car has. I have been modifying 90's imports for a long time and still own several. You see the Z guys all swear by this brand or this shop or ecu and then NSX guys something different. The EFR's for most street builds are a very overlooked turbo in the surpa world IMO. Regrading the VVIT my business partner has a 2J swapped Z32 that makes in the mid 800's. We have played around with the VVTI and noticed a difference on the dyno...not as much on the street. At that level the 40hp or whatever it was just kind of gets lost.

How much boost are you running?

Peaked at 34 ish but higher in the RPM's it will only hold low to mid 20's. Tried multiple spring configs, talked to BW rep, etc....its just out of air.

With the 1.45AR you should be able to push a lot more on a built motor but but may compromise the current response. Why not go with the 1.05 and EWG to manage more boost without BW restrictions? You should be to reach 800s as it's rated to 900s. With the 94 series you're turning into the dyno queen unless you have quite the build with a stroker kit.

So best guess on the 1.45 on my current frame is 30/40 HP with a different AR and EWG. But I also loose spool there and add complexity. How much I don't know. Also 40hp at this level just isn't noticeable except when reading a dyno.

With the 9274 its compressor map with all things being equal shows about 10% more air....so 70 ish HP there with a 200 or so RPM drop in spool. Thats the math...how will it feel on the street? Same with larger housing on it and going EWG. RIght now my setup is so simple with IWG that I hate to add the complexity / fab time on building it to maybe have a car I don't like as well.

Also for streetablity DBW is the craziest improvement ive ever seen in feel. Ive swapped AR's, cams, intercooler pipe size, etc etc. DBW > everything for a increase in the feel of response.

 

Its been interesting to see all of the pet brands that each car has. I have been modifying 90's imports for a long time and still own several. You see the Z guys all swear by this brand or this shop or ecu and then NSX guys something different. The EFR's for most street builds are a very overlooked turbo in the surpa world IMO. Regrading the VVIT my business partner has a 2J swapped Z32 that makes in the mid 800's. We have played around with the VVTI and noticed a difference on the dyno...not as much on the street. At that level the 40hp or whatever it was just kind of gets lost.



Peaked at 34 ish but higher in the RPM's it will only hold low to mid 20's. Tried multiple spring configs, talked to BW rep, etc....its just out of air.





So best guess on the 1.45 on my current frame is 30/40 HP with a different AR and EWG. But I also loose spool there and add complexity. How much I don't know. Also 40hp at this level just isn't noticeable except when reading a dyno.

With the 9274 its compressor map with all things being equal shows about 10% more air....so 70 ish HP there with a 200 or so RPM drop in spool. Thats the math...how will it feel on the street? Same with larger housing on it and going EWG. RIght now my setup is so simple with IWG that I hate to add the complexity / fab time on building it to maybe have a car I don't like as well.

Also for streetablity DBW is the craziest improvement ive ever seen in feel. Ive swapped AR's, cams, intercooler pipe size, etc etc. DBW > everything for a increase in the feel of response.

You don't have much of a choice if you wish to go the larger AR it seems. I expected more from 34lbs if I am being honest, but it sounds like you may be choking the turbo at .92 with the current build you have. I hope to see you test the 1.45 with an EWG for academic purposes 😁 following this.

 

40 HP from just an A/R change is quite a reach. Why is an IWG inadequate? I thought B/W had that all figured out. Boost control not good? Why go EFR if you're going to switch to an EWG?

Al

 

It's possible if he's completely choking out the turbo near peak, which sounds like that may be the case with the current AR on a built motor. EFR offers both configurations but there limitations on AR size and IWG. OP is definitely exceeding the IWG AR size at 1.45.

 

The 8474 in precision nomenclature would be a 6865 i believe. The rear turbine is just a tad small to keep making power deep into the RPM band. A 9180 (6873) with a 1.05 external would be a better choice at making more peak horsepower... IMO

 

Agreed.....just wonder what I would give up in terms of drivability.

Maybe ill start a go fund me and do the R&D for the community lol

 

Any pictures of your install sir? I am looking at using same Artec manifold and EFR 9280 on 94 MKIV. Worried a little about fitment/clearance.

 

Sure thing...here are some pics I took along the way. If you need any certain angle just let me know.

**no judge on the current state of the car....lots of things are place holders or temp items just for test fitment. The entire car is coming apart and going to paint later this year.

 

Thank you. Looks like plenty of clearance. Very helpful! Car looks good btw.

 

Speaking specifically to your comment about twin EFR 7163s, that is the setup I used to have on my Red Devil Supra built by Twins Turbo. Although the drive-ability of the car was 'pretty good', I think it was too extreme to meet your goals. That was on a built 3.4L bottom end, a built head, but no VVTi. It had 5 programmable boost settings via Pro EFI and I never graduated past setting 3, which was approximately 1000 whp on E85. I'm not sure I can find graphs of that setup as I only dynoed it once, but the previous owner made something like 1125 whp on setting 5 on a DynoJet. The car terrified me, although the tuner (Dave Justice) said that it could be run on the high boost map with confidence due to all the safeguards employed.

For guys like me, it was just too much for the street, and I never was comfortable with that car so only owned it for about 13 months. Great to see more people using the BW EFR turbos though, as they are seriously impressive!

 

Curiously got the best of me here

Ordered a 9274 today should be arrive in about 2-3 weeks (sent off for OCD T51R mod) so I will have direct dyno comparisons on these soon.

 

Damn you went all out. Borgs make the best turbo noise already, should sound insane with the T51 mod.

 

Yeah figured why cheap out at this point lol. For those that haven't driven an EFR setup its hands down the best turbo I've ever used....completely changed the way the car drives.

 

Can't wait to see results! I didn't know we could do the T51 mod to this turbo....

 

Love my BW 364,5sxe. Smaller turbo than OP. However, it spools fast (around 3,8K and fully in by 4,5ish), good TQ, and sounds vicious; it's the perfect street turbo in my opinion. And plenty of power on tap, too (I make 700 on E85, 29lbs). These real big turbos never intrigued me, always felt they're for breaking numbers. And I can't imagine too many places (around the US at least) that you actually have the room - whether it's traffic/congestion, cops, non stop potholes etc. to truly even enjoy the turbo, let alone the car. The reliability and quality build of these Borg turbos is outstanding, too.

Enjoy in good health, cheers..

 

I know this is an older post but I had initially wanted an EFR 8474 too but ended up getting an EFR 9280. Before going to the dyno stupid me forgot to gas up and I ended up running out of gas MID PULL at 6.2k rpm. I planned to run 30psi of boost at the end but dyno rental was expensive and I didn't have enough time to go to a gas station. Here's a graph of the botched 20psi dyno pull; power would have kept climbing past 6250rpm to ~550whp if I had enough fuel in the tank.

Setup at the time:

• Stock block 2jz-gte NON-VVTI
• Borg EFR 9280 w/1.05A/R twin scroll housing
• Custom equal length 1.25in sch10 runner manifold
• Kelford 202C Cams
• Stock intake manifold
• 72mm DBW
• 1000cc EV14 injectors
• T56 magnum

PUMP 91, 20PSI of boost and I could have probably ran ~3-4 degrees more timing if I had enough fuel

 

PUMP 91, 20PSI of boost and I could have probably ran ~3-4 degrees more timing if I had enough fuel

What is the difference between the blue and red lines on the graph? Also what octane? I know Canada has some different blends.

 

Using virtual dyno and motec data. This is the calculated HP and Tq on my setup on the 8474 on pump gas at 18 psi. 465hp and 380-400lbs/tq at 5100-6100 rpm. I have lots more room to go higher on e85 says my tuner. This is all before correcting valve lash and lapping the valves. I'll update after I install the new buckets and a new tune.

-Non VVTI
-8474 0.92 AR
-artec manifold
-BC 254 cams

 

Nice to see someone using an EFR 9180! I look forward to the updated results.

 

Oh


Oh mine was an 8474 not the 9180, if you were responding to me Steve.

I did grab the wrong log file. Looked like my final tune with the wrong vavle lash ends up being 519rwhp/422lbs @6459 on 91 pump. Crossing my fingers I can get a little more out of it with the new buckets I'm getting tomorrow. Just in time for driving season too.

This is calculated rwhp with motec log file from street tune and virtual dyno app.

 

Thanks for the correction @sea2mjs as I did misunderstand. I'd like to run the EFR 9180 on my upcoming 1UZ-FE turbo setup and am excited to see how 4.0L can make it spool!

 

BW claims 9180 spools the same as the 8474, just with a smaller wheel? That's why BW went to the 9280 or whatever the upgrade is of the 9180. I'll DM you when I'm all done in the next few weeks or if you're free Sunday-Wendsday this week I can pop on over to your shop and you can drive my supra. I don't think it will be tuned by then for the new buckets I installing tomorrow, but I'm sure the tune I have is close enough.

 

Very nice nice numbers. Any plans to have the build tested on a conventional dyno jet? I'm curious how close those figures would be. I hope I'm close to your numbers at 18psi on the rebuilt t51r with the s1 cam. We gotta catch up in person soon, car is almost ready to swap.

 

@Steve Theodore, If the car starts up tomorrow and everything looks good I'll DM, or any of the sunny days, Sunday-Wednesday works best for you. I'm pretty free.

@SupraSE997, If everything looks good and my tuner is OK with everything I'll most likely throw it on the dyno this year to have a baseline. Apparently according the interwebs virtual dyno is pretty close to actual dyno jet. Virtual dyno uses time, rpm, and throttle position sensor, weight, gear ratio you did the pull at, tire size, temp and humidity. I'd say it's more accurate to what power I can put down than a dyno since I'm using my street tune pull logs for the data. So weight and any drag that happens gets inadvertently tied into the time since it slows the car down. Stuff you wouldn't get at a real dyno.

 

@SupraSE997, If everything looks good and my tuner is OK with everything I'll most likely throw it on the dyno this year to have a baseline. Apparently according the interwebs virtual dyno is pretty close to actual dyno jet. Virtual dyno uses time, rpm, and throttle position sensor, weight, gear ratio you did the pull at, tire size, temp and humidity. I'd say it's more accurate to what power I can put down than a dyno since I'm using my street tune pull logs for the data. So weight and any drag that happens gets inadvertently tied into the time since it slows the car down. Stuff you wouldn't get at a real dyno.
[/QUOTE]

I was just looking to this myself with the plan to swap the new engine this summer. I'll hit you up for some help when the time comes. Keep us posted on a base tune once it's done.

 

@SupraSE997, If everything looks good and my tuner is OK with everything I'll most likely throw it on the dyno this year to have a baseline. Apparently according the interwebs virtual dyno is pretty close to actual dyno jet. Virtual dyno uses time, rpm, and throttle position sensor, weight, gear ratio you did the pull at, tire size, temp and humidity. I'd say it's more accurate to what power I can put down than a dyno since I'm using my street tune pull logs for the data. So weight and any drag that happens gets inadvertently tied into the time since it slows the car down. Stuff you wouldn't get at a real dyno.

I was just looking to this myself with the plan to swap the new engine this summer. I'll hit you up for some help when the time comes. Keep us posted on a base tune once it's done.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, for sure. You have my number. It's been an exhausting fun adventure taking this car apart. Other than the bottom end and tuning I can successfully say I've wrenched on it more than a few times. Ishii was right to tell me to keep it Twin for as long as possible. It's a rabbit hole going single.

 

Interesting update on this turbo. I was watching a video on the new ZR1 Corvette and in the 1–5 minute mark they get into the anti-lag system. Turns out it’s running EFR turbos — really cool tech.

When I did my turbo swap, I deleted the BW CSV system with a simple block-off plate . The OEM recirc setups on 300ZXs always left a bad taste in my mouth, and I figured most of these systems were just there to keep MAF cars happy.

After watching that ZR1 video, I decided to hook mine back up jus
t to see what it would do. The difference was insane. Between shifts, the turbo is just there — no detectable lag. Every gear feels like the boost is waiting for you, like you never lifted. I already loved this turbo, but now I’m even more excited about it.

Figured I’d share in case anyone else deleted the CRV just for the BOV sound like I did — you might want to rethink it.

 

@Madhatter10-6 Since the tech is used on cars like the ZR1, Audis, etc., there are also OEM actuators available to make the diverter valve electronic, which is pretty cool if you want to have a bit more control.

P.S. I also liked the engineering details about the ZR1 in the Savagegeese video.

 

Very cool! I wasn't aware of the electronic option.....I may end up trying this too.

 

Just a quick update on this — I recently tested the EFR 9274 with the .92 A/R internal gate housing. Unfortunately, it felt too spongy down low for my liking. I didn’t even bother dynoing it — no matter how strong the top end might have been, the low-end response killed it for me.

That experience got me thinking about how to improve my current setup instead. I’ve got a 1.05 A/R external gate housing on the way, along with a set of Kelford 264/272 hybrid cams.

I’ll be testing them individually, in that order, and plan to dyno after each stage so I can get a clear read on what each change actually does. I’ll report back with results once everything’s in.

 

It seems like the 8474 and the 9174 are the sweet spot. I do wonder how the compressors on the 9174 and 9274 compare and if what you were feeling is because of the difference in inertia from the bigger compressor wheel or a difference in compressor efficiency, since the 9274 does move pretty far right.

I'll definitely be interested to hear how your upgraded setup works out, cause I'm looking for similar results.

 

If I had the test upgrade to do over again, I would’ve gone with the 9174 instead. I like to get in the ballpark with a setup, then explore how far I can push it up or down before it stops feeling right.

I’m running an 8474 with a 1.05 A/R and external gate on my 2005 NSX, and I love it. The car revs out smooth and feels shockingly responsive. The setup on my Supra is solid too, but at times the engine feels like it’s working against itself—probably due to back pressure. I’m hoping the larger A/R and bigger cams help relieve that.

Power-wise, I’m exactly where I want to be for a street car. Anything extra from the upgrades is just a bonus.

 

Everything is torn down, and the new 1.05 housing should arrive tomorrow. For the sake of science, I’m going to test it first with no other changes—well, aside from the external dual 45mm wastegates. Other than that, it’ll be a straight back-to-back comparison.


Depending on how it performs, I may try a 1.45 housing next before moving on to the 264/272 hybrid cam setup. Does anyone have a spare 1.45 I could borrow for testing?

 

I am really curious to see what the larger housing will bring you. On my PSR G35-900 it brought nothing but gains, one of the best choices I made.
I went from a 0.8AR to a 1.01AR and got about 30-50HP and torque across the entire powerband with no impact on driveabillity.

 

I am really curious to see what the larger housing will bring you. On my PSR G35-900 it brought nothing but gains, one of the best choices I made.
I went from a 0.8AR to a 1.01AR and got about 30-50HP and torque across the entire powerband with no impact on drivability.

Interesting! What power level where you at during this?