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//gwailo-
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Holy flippin shit. I have had nothing but problems with my car for the past year! I'm bout ready to drive the fucker off a cliff!

With the key in the accessorie position

The things that work:

all my idiot lights.
my alarm system

The things that don't work:

Turbo timer
e-01 boost controller
safc2
stereo
oh yeah and the whole damn car won't start.

How it happened.

I was driving down the freeway a while ago and noticed my turbotimer was counting down. So I shut it off. this killed my car and I had to pull off on the side of the road. then the car wouldn't start and hasn't started since.

I have tried disconnecting the turbo timer. didin't help. i tried resetting the ecu/unhooked the battery. didn't work. I disconnected my alarm. didn't work.

All of my electronics used to ATLEAST turn on when I had the car on (but not running) now nothing is turning on @ all.

When I try to start the car, It sounds as if it is going to start up any moment with a healthy turn over sound (no clicking or hesitation due to a dead batter).

I am @ a loss and the only option I have left is to have it towed somewhere to get it checked out but I don't evne know where to take it. every place I have ever taken the car to has fucked something up or refused to work on it. I don't want to be paying a flatbed to continually tow it form place to place before someone can actually fix it.

I am in desperate need of help so if anyone can give me advice, I would be forever indebted to you.

I just got done fixing CEL light problem (hose popped off my egr modulator) and just recently replaced my radiator.

last year I had my TPS and starter replaced and had to track down an electrical issue that was causing my car to die frequently (it ended up being a loose wire connected to the ecu).

The car is not dieing now. it just won't start.

again, any help PLEASE!

Thank you.

Justin
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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1,096 Posts
Hey Justin,

Sorry to hear about the problems with your car. That's *no* fun to deal with.
(Forgive me since I'm at work and don't have the FSM's in front of me)

The key switch has a few outputs in the accessory position. One is for less important things to the engine running, and one is for things that are important for the engine to run. There is a whole bus of "12V with key on" that is not getting power when your turn the key on. A turbo timer splices between that line and replaces the output with one that stays on after the key is turned off.

Since you first noticed the problem when driving down the road (turbo timer suddenly activated) I'm guessing that it stopped receiving the "12V with key on" signal. That's what tells it to start the count down. Also, that's what tells it to replace that signal when the key is turned on again. I'm about 90% sure that the problem is in the electrical side of your key switch. One of the "12V with key on" signals is not working anymore. I think it's pretty common if the plastic case cracks, or if a brass contact fails.

Stop by your local Toyota dealer, or visit one of the forum sponsors (Jay Marks or Elmhurst). For my car (94) the switch retails for ~$90 and Jay Marks has is for ~$65. If you have your wiring diagram you can see which pin is *not* getting 12V as it should, then power it directly and see if that fixes the problem.
 

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//gwailo-
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828 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Wow dan, that helps a lot...I think. As I am not the least bit electrical savvy but I printed out the greddy turbo timer instruction manual off of mkiv.com. The turbo timer was on the car when I bought it and didn't come with a manual.

I have yet to look through it. will it have the wiring diagram you are talking about? Or are you referring to toyota electrical diagram?

again, thanks. I have to go to work but I will check back here and look @ the manual when i have more time.

anyone else please feel free to give your input as well as to what you may think.

thanks again. :)

justin
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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1,096 Posts
I just looked in my FSM and on page BE-16 it gives the continuity test for the ignition switch. Check that out and let us know what the results are. It doesn't tell you what each wire goes to on that page, but it does outline what pins should have conductivity to one another in each position. If you have a multi-meter that beeps when there's continuity, use that for your test.

I know with the Audi community I was part of for a while that ignition switches were a fairly common thing to fail after 10-15 years.

Ya, the turbo timer instructions should help. Also, on the MKIV site there's a writup on the HKS unit that has a brief wiring diagram as well. You can find it here:
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/hks_turbo_timer/turbo_timer.htm

Good luck. Let us know if we can help more.
 

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Somebody's Watching Me!
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1,875 Posts
just a guess but did you check your ecu for that same loose wire that you had problems with before cause it might be unhooked now since it wont start . Just a guess but i had a knock senser wire that got unhooked for the ecu cause the cover hope that helps. david
 

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//gwailo-
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828 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ovey1 said:
just a guess but did you check your ecu for that same loose wire that you had problems with before cause it might be unhooked now since it wont start . Just a guess but i had a knock senser wire that got unhooked for the ecu cause the cover hope that helps. david
I had that problem fixed by a *cough* professional. I was never really good with electrical. Too many wires! Though lately I have become very intimate with the goings on behind my dash figuring out where all the wires from my turbo timer and alarm go to.

But I probably would not know what I was looking @ on my ecu especially when the guy said he didn't notice it the first 3 times he looked.

cord4530 said:
I just looked in my FSM and on page BE-16 it gives the continuity test for the ignition switch. Check that out and let us know what the results are. It doesn't tell you what each wire goes to on that page, but it does outline what pins should have conductivity to one another in each position. If you have a multi-meter that beeps when there's continuity, use that for your test.

I know with the Audi community I was part of for a while that ignition switches were a fairly common thing to fail after 10-15 years.

Ya, the turbo timer instructions should help. Also, on the MKIV site there's a writup on the HKS unit that has a brief wiring diagram as well. You can find it here:
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/hk...turbo_timer.htm

Good luck. Let us know if we can help more.
I don't have a tool to test wires. Is there a way to mcGiver a way to test them? Or am I screwed on the DIY ability?
 

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Somebody's Watching Me!
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1,875 Posts
they sell them at radio shack and they are cheap. Im thinking that you may have a wire completely off your ecu that may have come off when puting your cover on like i said i had one that got seperated when i put my cover on. never know.
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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1,096 Posts
A digital multimeter will pay for itself in its first use. Make sure you get one that does a continuity test (beep). You can get a radio shack model 22-813 for ~$30 that will do this.

When in that mode, any time there's continuity between the two leads the unit will beep. So, according to page BE-16 (not in front of me right now so I'm making up the numbers) if it says there's supposed to be continuity between terminals 1, 3, 4, 6, 7 for a given switch setting, put one lead in terminal 1 and leave it there. Put the other lead in #3 and listen for a beep. Then #4, and so on. Then move the first lead in to terminal #3 and check the rest of the terminals with the other lead. If you find one of them doesn't beep when it's supposed to, then you know your problem.

I could be wrong, but it's pretty unlikely the ECU wire is causing the problem that's happening now. Even if the ECU was unplugged, the stereo, turbo timer, etc. should still turn on with the key.
 

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Those are some really good tips Dan!
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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Thanks! Now we just have to wait and see if they were useful at all <ha!>
 

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//gwailo-
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828 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Even if this doesn't work, Dan, I value the information you are providing me. I will hopefully be able to get to the Shak this weekend and pick up a multimeter (that beeps!).

Where can I find the diagram of the wires I am supposed to be testing? I checked mkiv.com's 93-95 repair manual 'complete electrical system' section but did not see BE-16 as a section so I looked for anything ignition but came up with very little (but then again, I'm not sure what exactly im looking for) Are you referring to a different manual? Or did I miss it?

I'm sorry for all these questions but I really am a newbie @ stuff like this. I can use a screwdriver and take apart every dash panel...I just don't know what I'm looking @ when I get there. If the big black box behind my dash didn't say "SideWinder" on it, I wouldn't have known it was my alarm :p

I'm a sad individual...but I'd rather pay to learn about my car than pay someone else to fix it and learn nothing. I mean, obviously there are things I just cannot do myself but if I can, I like to atleast try so I can learn a little bit more. I know everything I do about cars (which isn't much) by working on my own. I jsut wish I had a beater to learn on rather than a supra but hey! I'm having fun! right...?
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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No problem about asking questions. That's how we learn.

My factory manuals are for a 94, so we should be similar. This is in Volume 2, in the "Body Electrical System (BE) section. The page in that section was #16. I'm actually at home now so I'll go grab it. BRB......

There's eight pins. From what I see on the wiring diagram (page EWD-10) it looks like they do the following:
Pin #1 - ST2
This looks like it gets power from pin #2 when the key is in the "start" position. However, in every wiring diagram it doesn't appear to be hooked up to anything.

Pin #2 - AM2
This is a +12V input from the battery on a 30 Amp fuse labled AM2

Pin #3 - IG2
This gets power from AM2 when in the "on" position and powers several things. These are: injectors, ignition amplifier, airbag computer, and ECU.

Pin #4 - IG1
This gets power from AM1 when in the "on" position and powers several other things. These are: warning lights, running lights, turn signals, power windows, and wipers.

Pin #5 - ACC
This gets power from AM1 when in the "acc" position and powers: radio, AC/heater system, cig. lighter, power mirrors

Pin #6 - empty?
Not listed in any wiring diagram, or on the continuity test page

Pin #7 - AM1
This is a +12v input from the battery on 50 Amp fuse labled AM1

Pin #8 - ST1
This gets power from AM1 when in the "Start" position. This appears to work fine on your car.

A few things you may check before you dig in to your dash:
1) Check for blown fuses. These will be "big" ones in the engine bay. In particular I'd suspect AM2 as being blown. (30 amp)

2) Do you get power to the cig lighter, mirrors, or ventilation system with the key on?

3) Check the larger AM1 fuse (50 amp). It should be fine if you're getting the engine to crank though.

Keep us posted on your progress. No doubt you'll get to the bottom of this, and you'll have learned a TON about your cars ignition switch <grin>. It's great that you're taking the time to learn how to diagnose and fix your cars problems too. As long as you're careful and realistic about your capabilities/tools, then you'll learn a great deal and shouldn't hurt anything on the car. And some day you'll respond to a post where some person is having electrical problems with their ignition switch!
 

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//gwailo-
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828 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
yes I get power to my mirrors/lighter/ventalation

I also double checked all of my accessible fuses (fuse box in ebay and under dash in car) Every single one looks good. :( normally I'd be happy about this but I was really hoping for a simple blown fuse. (I checked the fuses yesturday and just checket them again a few minutes ago.)

Next step = Radio shack?

EDIT: Am I looking @ the right thing? (I 19)
 

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//gwailo-
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
SHE'S ALIVE!!! OH GLORIOUS LORD SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!

Dan. You are my hero! I Don't know what else to say!

I followed my turbo timer wiring diagram and it led me to the 8 pin connector you disected for me where wouldn't ya know. pin number 3 wire (the one that powers the injectors, ignition amplifier, airbag computer, and ECU.) had separated from it's crimp. grabbed a new crimp. reconnected them and fired her right up!

I could not have done this without your help. thank you so much!

Not only did you help me fix my car, but you helped ME fix my car.

Thank you so much again to everyone who contributed to my thread.

This forum is fantastic!

Can you tell I'm excited? :p

peace~
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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That's FANTASTIC news!!

Way cool that you figured it out on your own once you got in there. I have to say that these forums and the Supra Community as a whole are pretty darn awesome. Not only do we get to have amazing cars, but we get to pool our experience together for everyones benefit.

Congrats to you! Maybe the Supra Gods will bless you with a perfectly trouble free car for the next year :)
 

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//gwailo-
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828 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
cord4530 said:
...Congrats to you! Maybe the Supra Gods will bless you with a perfectly trouble free car for the next year :)
Not likely! But thanks. :)
 

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Moderator
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5,058 Posts
I am having a similar problem with my 1998 NA.
It just started the day after I got it inspected. :rolleyes:

The car will crank, and all the electronics work but the car will not start...
I'm thinking the car is getting no fuel...any ideas?
The car was running PERFECTLY an then this started out of no where.
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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Usually when doing diagnostics on a car that won't start I like to start at the same place. An engine needs three things in order to run: Fuel, Spark, and Compression.

Unless something catastrophic happend when it stopped running, compression likely isn't the cause of the car not running.

For ignition, since you're N/A, you can pull a wire off the distributor and see if it's sparking when the engine is cranking. If you have spark, then you're probably fine in that department (assuming the distributor wasn't moved since it last ran).

For fuel, it could be that the injectors aren't getting the signal to fire, or that the fuel pump isn't turning on/working. If you have a test valve in the fuel rail (no idea on the N/A cars), you can test for pressure there. It will look much like a schrater valve you see on the tires to fill. Pushing the little post in the middle should make fuel shoot out. Note: Be careful!!! I just mentioned "Fuel shooting out." <grin> Eye/skin protection is recommended, as well as a rag to keep the fuel from running all over the place.

If you can confirm that the fuel pump is working and the fuel rail has pressure, then you'll want to look at thte signal going to the injectors. For the simple test, check if the injectors are getting +12v to them. One of the leads on the injector should be +12v when the key is in the "on" position. For the N/A cars I believe the correct wire color (on each injector clip) should be black with orange stripe. Measure voltage between the black/orange wire and vehicle ground with the key on.

If the injector is getting power, that's only 1/2 the battle. It still needs to be grounded by the ECU for it to work. If you're lucky you'll know a friend with a automotive multimeter that can read pulse width or duty cycle signals. But few people are so lucky.... So you may try to look for a "noid light" set. It's a small light that plugs in to the harness in place of the fuel injector. The light will light up each time the injector would have gotten a signal to fire.

Could be you're lucky enough that one of your fuses blew. I'd check the AM2 fuse (30 Amp) since everything on AM1 seems to be working. If that's okay, start by checking the ignition first since that's easiest. Then check for +12v a few places where it should be. (coil, injectors).
 

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Moderator
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The 98 has no distributor.

I'm positive the compression is fine, so that can be ruled out.

This only leaves fuel or spark as a possible cause. After cracking the car a ton of times without it turning over the car should have smelled heavily of fuel. However this is not the case, the car has no smell of fuel so I'm pretty sure the fuel pump just isn't pumping fuel.

I've checked the fuses in the engine bay and in the driverside kick panel. Do you know where the fuel pump fuse is though?
 

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Alpine Hardtopper
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Oops....my bad on the distributor. I don't think I knew that.

On my car (94 TT) the fuel pump is powered by the EFI main relay. Power for that relay comes from a 30 Amp fuse labled "EFI No 1." Being that size, I'm guessing it's in the engine bay though. A number of things run off that same relay (O2 sensor heaters, VSV's, IAC motor, and power for the ECU.

EFI No1 is located in the engine bay fuse box. It's in the #2 spot. The EFI relay is in the same box in the "G" location. Make sure you have power across the fuse, and make sure the relay is clicking on when the key is on. May not hurt to check the relay, or switch it with one of the others nearby (Fog light and A/C clutch seems to be the same). Actually, you could swap it with the starter relay (A) and see if the engine still cranks over. That will tell you if the relay is good or not.

If all those come up good, then we'll think of a few other tests to perform.
 
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