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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
It seems that every day on SF, several posters start various threads asking for advice about the value of the MKIV Supra (usually the turbo model, but not always) and whether the asking prices of certain cars are reasonable or outlandish. If they are not told to SEARCH (!), the advice provided by veteran members usually involves a discussion of mileage, whether the car is stock, BPU or a heavily modded APU car, the quality of the mods if present, service records and related topics. All of these are important factors to take under consideration, but many would-be buyers appear to give as much weight to mileage as any other criteria. This is to be expected, with the youngest of these cars now 13-years old and the premier 93.5 versions now nearing 19-years of age. I have a somewhat different approach, though, which is capsulized by the thread of this title.

I looked at many, many Supras when searching for my second MKIV turbo 6MT. I even developed a questionnaire for stock/BPU cars, as they were the limited scope of my search for a second car. After conducting a fairly comprehensive search, I came to the conclusion that Condition Trumps Mileage; that is to say, if you find a car that has been well maintained all of its life, has service and mod records and an identifiable chain of prior ownership, you should not hesitate to consider this car if it is available regardless of mileage. Because I and my Supra buddies drive our cars, it has made us realize the importance of a well maintained, regularly driven MKIV Supra. This is particularly the case with modded, APU cars. You, as the potential buyer, need to know that the car has been regularly driven and serviced. If the car has been tuned well , drives well and is regularly driven, this is a car you should seriously consider. There’s more to it than this, of course, but my absolute #1 example of the basic premise of this thread is a car owned by my very good friend Chip Schwartz (Lagtime on SF). A couple of weeks ago, I had a Supra gathering at my home and I took the opportunity to have the event photographer take many pics of Chip’s car (because he has NEVER done so) and because I wanted to use the pics for this thread. This is a car that has over 100,000 miles on the odo, but one could never tell by the way it looks, drives and performs in balls-to-the-walls situations. Without further ado, here we go:
















As to the specs on this car, I will let Chip chime in and give you guys and gals the particulars regarding the EMS, APU upgrades, suspension, wheels and the like. This is a truly beautiful stock bodied MKIV Supra turbo. Chip wanted the ultimate MKIV sleeper given his residence in California, but he also wanted all of the guilty performance pleasures that guys with more ostentatious set-ups routinely enjoy. I think you will agree with me that he has wildly succeeded. As you might expect, if the car ever goes up for sale, you guys will have to line up behind me!

Ken.
 

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Great thread Ken! :bigthumb:
 

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Mamba Still On Top
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An example of a car well cared for, and well maintained. It's by no mistake that Chip has kept that car so cherry.

A stunning car.
 

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Old School
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Mileage as of this morning is 100,193. I have a stack of receipts inches thick, but below are the high points.

Powertrain:
- Stock block/head with HKS 264 I/E cams
- HKS 1.2mm head gasket
- HKS Manifold w/60mm HKS GT Wastegate
- HKS Fuel Rail w/720 cc Denso Injectors, HKS FPR
- Borg-Warner 83-75 Turbo 1.0 A/R divided
- Twin Denso Fuel Pumps
- 3” PHR Downpipe/midpipe, Jet Hot 2000 Coated
- GReddy 3 Row FMIC
- TRD Gen 1 cat-back
- OS Giken Twin Plate Clutch

Electronics:
- HKS V-Pro version 3.24
- HKS Gen 1 Knock Amp
- HKS EZ-II Boost Controller

Suspension:
- Zeal Function Xs Coilovers 14kg/10kg
- TRD Sway Bars
- Replaced every control arm w/new Toyota parts
- Widened stock rims:
F: 17 x 9.5, 265/40 Michelin PS2
R: 17 x 10, 275/40 Michelin PS2

Interior:
- F&R Seats recovered by Classic Soft Trim
- New Tan Carpet
- TRD Steering Wheel (Black)
- TRD 10k Tach
- C’s Shifter
- Sparco Harness Bar
 

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Ken I am very hurt that I was not considered for your gathering, LOL Just kidding!!! I always enjoy your post, they are very well written and always in good taste. Its too bad I won't make the Vegas meet this year as I was looking forward to seeing you.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Having driven behind this car on many occasions, I can tell you guys that the effect of those widened stock wheels is quite noticeable from the rear. It looks very aggressive, but in a subtle way. Folks see the stock wheels and can't figure out why the stance of this car is different from other stockers. After seven years of BPU bliss, Chip went single on April Fool's Day (!) in 2006 and hasn't looked back since. We should all be so fortunate.

Ken.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ken I am very hurt that I was not considered for your gathering, LOL Just kidding!!! I always enjoy your post, they are very well written and always in good taste. Its too bad I won't make the Vegas meet this year as I was looking forward to seeing you.
Brent,

If you weren't in Texas or Alaska or....I would have invited you. That's why I wanted to make sure you saw the thread regarding the Vegas meet. I am sorry you will be unable to attend. Your car is looking splendiferous.

Ken.
 

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Ken, You hit it right on the nail. a car that has a good history, with a record of all the services and mods installed has more value. This shows the owner truly cares about the car and takes pride in keeping in that way. This leads to a well taken care of car. Unlike the opposite end of the spectrum, the owner couldn't care less about keeping records, organizing his expenses on the car would only reflect in the less than stellar appearance of the car. But there are exceptions to every situation. But over all condition does trump mileage.

Art
 

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I could not agree with you more Ken. All to often you see people putting more emphasis on mileage, rather than the condition of the car, and the quality of the modifications done to the car.
 

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Boost Junkie
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Nice job. Tasteful mods while appearing stock. I am sure it puts down some good power as well.

Steve
 

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Your exactly right Ken, Great thread!! Lagtime you have a stunning stock bodied supra!!
 

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Old School
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An example of a car well cared for, and well maintained. It's by no mistake that Chip has kept that car so cherry.

A stunning car.
Thanks, Mike.

impressed, you can see your commitment to keeping your supra to a standard that all should strive for.
I try to keep it looking like it should, thanks for the props.

Nice job. Tasteful mods while appearing stock. I am sure it puts down some good power as well.

Steve
Steve, it puts down ~520 whp on pump, ~570 whp on 100 Octane. Depending on the results of Ken's 67mm PTE experiment I may go larger than the 60mm B-W I have now. Thanks for the kind words about appearance.

Your exactly right Ken, Great thread!! Lagtime you have a stunning stock bodied supra!!
Thank you!
 

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Congratulations, Chip. It's a pleasure to see and read more about your super clean, very well maintained, tastefully and intelligently moded Supra.

Ken, instead of just saying "search" to those asking the perennial questions about Supra value and condition, I'll be posting a link to your thread. I can definitely appreciate the purpose of your thread. My own has over 120k on it now and it's not unusual for people to think it's an almost new car, and I often get passenger comments about how tight and solid it rides and feels.

my edit:
To be accurate, in case anyone notices this iscrepancy since it was quoted later by Ken H, my original post above says my car has over 120k and after checking this past weekend I see it has just under 119,000. But I do drive it a lot so I'll be busting 120k soon enough.
 

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Old School
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Congratulations, Chip. It's a pleasure to see and read more about your super clean, very well maintained, tastefully and intelligently moded Supra.
Nick, good to hear from you. I appreciate the compliments. Big thumbs up to your 120k mile gem. I bet you could pass it of as a car with less than a quarter the miles if you covered the odometer.

There's something very satisfying about rolling up the miles yet keeping the car as pristine as possible.
 

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After seven years of BPU bliss, Chip went single on April Fool's Day (!) in 2006 and hasn't looked back since. We should all be so fortunate.

Ken.
Truth. I have about 15k miles APU, the car has been 100% as reliable as it was back in BPU days. Do it once, do it right, drive & enjoy. Cutting corners is seldom cheaper over the long haul.
 

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Great Thread Ken... I usually review the pics first before i read, but this time its the other way around..After seeing the pics, I agree with you 100%.. I own a 93 and people still cant believe that my car is a 18 year old car...

This is a great example of a well maint. car.. If RED is not kept up on, it can make the car look older then it really is..

Lagtime, You make me wanna buy a RR Sup now...Very well kept Sir...
 

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I agree 100% with Ken. I recently bought a 97 with 77k miles. From looks, it was decent. From a mechanical sense, it was a mess!! I just got it back from Chris Johnson, who had it for almost 3 months, fixing most of the cut corners the previous owner did. Ill never understand how someone can own a Supra and cut corners by not fixing items that are only about a $3 part! My first Supra had almost 200k miles and was 1000% nicer! Either way, condition definitely trumps mileage.
 
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