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www.ziptieracing.com
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Discussion Starter #1
I enjoy my supra but you cannot get around the fact that it is one heavy car.

I don't think my wife is going to let me buy it but this is what I want...

http://www.lotuscars.com

Anyone here have a deposit down on one?

Matt
 

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DitchByTheSideOfTheRoad
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hehe...I saw that they were gonna be bring those to the states, cant wait till they get on the used market at decent prices, well decent prices that us poor folk can afford :)
 

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I called my local Lotus dealer last week and they want $1000 deposit to get on the waiting list, he said they start arriving in the Spring. I was tempted, but I'm in no hurry so I'll wait to see one in person and sit in it and then decide.

That should be an awesome track car as is. I fantasized about massaging that little Toyota engine from 190hp up closer to 300hp. I don't think that would be too difficult.

But I'm torn since I think for around $45k you could get one of these http://www.beckspeedster.com/pages/870292/ Beck Lister's with a basic Chevy crate motor. If you recall that super car challenge a year or so ago, this thing would have taken the whole shebang except they penalized it for noise and emmissions ...two things I care nothing about. It creamed twin turbo Vipers, twin turbo Vettes, heavily massaged Porsche turbos, and other nice cars that cost at least $100k more.
 

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If memory serves me right, Yamaha designs and manufactures a good portion of the heads used by Toyota. Mainly the G series heads (performance heads).
 

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I have seen a lotus exige track car and thought it was very sharp. Somebody has been importing the car and putting in a Honda S2000 engine which is stout. BUT have you seen the specs on the Noble M12 GTO3? Damn the thing is fast and pulls a 1.15 lateral G. For a fairly small, 2,000lb car it has 18in. wheels and if you look at the picture the inside of the wheel is filled slap up with AP brake rotor. It has won several awards in Europe for THE "Driver's Car" based on pure handling and performance. I saw three of the cars at Road Atlanta. I like the look. 3.8 seconds to 60mph and 11.8 secs. in a 1/4 (according to the US importer)from a lightly boosted twin turbo Ford V6. For track use it is nice that a roll cage (covered up by leather trim) in integrated into the car. Here is a pic
http://www.gto3.com/gallery/Rockingham - 17th October 2003/imagepages/image11.htm

There is a web site for Noble Owners and a media gallery page. Go download the TOP GEAR 2002 video and download it. Besides being a very funny video (the reviewer Jeremy Clarkson has a great sense of humor) the video of the car is very good.
http://www.gto3.com/gallery/index.htm
In the video they say 0 to 60 in 4.4 but I have seen several places where it is now 3.7 (probably a clutch destroying non real world time). Interestingly they say the car just will not understeer. It has an underbody diffuser, a front splitter, a big ass wing. They sell the chassis in the US for $53,700 and then you buy the engine and transaxle. I think hp is up to 360 hp now.
Plus if you like the sound of a turbo you will love the sound of this car on the track. Motor right behind your head turbo whistling the whole time. Check out the Bedford track video in the media gallery. Lee Noble is the guy who built the development chassis for the McClaren F1 supercar so he has the credentials. (Did the Ultima chassis too). Handling on a wet track is suppose to be phenomenal. The official Noble web site
http://www.noblecars.com/index2.html
Ferrari killer.
Barry H.
 

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PukiCabuki said:
If memory serves me right, Yamaha designs and manufactures a good portion of the heads used by Toyota. Mainly the G series heads (performance heads).
Yes. This is true of the 5M-GE head and others if I'm not mistaken.

However, I believe that the 2ZZ-GE was actually a total Yamaha thing... dunno. Haven't looked into Celicas for a long time.
 
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I have a deposit on an Elise. The Supra and the Elise are two completely different cars. The Lotus is a no-frills sports car while the Supra is a true GT car. The Elise wouldn't be any fun on a trip over an hour, I'd imagine, whereas the Supra is great for long trips.

On the track, I'm guessing the Elise would be quicker than the Supra on shorter tracks, with the edge going to the Supra on fast tracks, with its superior power to weight.

I've never driven one, but plan on autoxing one next year. I'm waiting to see where it'll be classed. If I really like the Elise, the Supra will probably have to go.

Jeff
 

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I wonder why they are not selling the exige in the US. I would much prefer it and for a track car would rather not have the "semi-convertible" top of the Elise for safety and chassis rigidity reasons. However, I have read the Elise handles like a single seater formula car which is fantastic. It also as a result gives you not much time to correct a mistake before you are screwed. I saw an exige run at Road Atlanta on a track day. It was of course by necessity a trailer queen. The owner was the limiting factor that day. Now if they get the Noble GTO passed for US I will scrap up everything I can to buy that thing.
Here is some track day footage of an exige reeling in a viper but he was very optimistic on his late pass and spun out. The owner said he brok a CV joint during the 90mph spin.
http://acw-com.activeserverhosting.com/cars/bw082303/HWFM.WMV
An exige at Donnington Park DE
http://www.bookatrack.com/-PFuldis189415337?uldis&1894&15337&video/mpeg
Got some of this from a pretty good forum on elises and exiges.
Barry H.
 
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The Elise's chassis was designed for the soft top, although there is an optional hard top. Rigidity is excellent from what I hear, unlike most other T top cars. There is a built-in 4 point roll bar standard on the cars. The US cars will have a/c, ABS, power windows, open diff. (latest speculation) and a sport suspension option. Weight is supposed to be 1800- 2000 lbs., with 1975 being the weight the car mags are quoting. Brakes will be AP Racing or Brembo. The chassis is all aluminum (except the roll bar) and the body is fiberglass. There will be a track version for the US in the future. Weight distribution is around 40/60. The transmission is the European close ratio 6 speed used on the same engine in Europe. The ECU has been massaged by Lotus to optimize the engine for the car.

Jeff
 

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bwill said:
Now if they get the Noble GTO passed for US I will scrap up everything I can to buy that thing.
Barry,

In many states cars imported in more than one piece can be put together and registered as self-made cars (or sometimes vintage cars). For example, I've seen Caterham-type cars and Cobra replicas with liscense plates at autocrosses. Of course, its easy to register such things in Florida :D I believe the Noble can be imported as a rolling chassis correct?

If your looking for a pure track car, there are many kit-cars to choose from. The UK has a lot of bike-powered cars, which are often sub-1000lbs.
http://www.mkownersclub.co.uk/images/GT1/side1_lg.jpg
The most successfull kit-cars in club racing over there are a family of chassis known at Sylvas.
http://www.furyous.org/images/src20.jpg

A guy in town here is looking to build one with a 3S-GE BEAMs engine, should be ~1100lbs w/o driver and I think 220ish bhp. If it were me, I'd go for a turbo Busa engine.

Sadly the Radical SR3s that are streetable in Europe are not legal over here, and they don't sell them in kit form :(
 

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Just in case you have not already seen it (bet you have) the US Version of the Elise is on the cover of this month's Road & Track. I like the targa hardtop on it. It will be fast that is for sure and after having driven a spec miata at two DEs there is a certain joy in driving a car that does not weigh squat. The late braking is a real blast and being able to carry a lot of speed through the turns is where the fun really is.
Barry H.
 

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www.ziptieracing.com
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Discussion Starter #13
bwill said:
after having driven a spec miata at two DEs there is a certain joy in driving a car that does not weigh squat. The late braking is a real blast and being able to carry a lot of speed through the turns is where the fun really is.
Barry H.
my thoughts exactly. I really don't need to buy another car, but man that thing looks like a blast...
 

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Driven said:
I'm gonna say no for the simple fact that the Elise weighs virtually nothing.
On slower, tight courses, the Supra will have a hard time keeping up to one without a very good driver.

On faster courses, however, I doubt it'll have much problem if running a single. The weight is a disadvantage, but being able to plant 500-600 horsepower isn't.
 

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I think it would take one hell of a driver to make a Supra competitive with an Elise on most road courses. That type of weight is just flat-out unbelievable, and carries over so heavily into all the aspects of on-track performance. The Supra weighs nearly twice as much as that car! ;)

I have a good friend considering one, and if they cost less I'd be considering one too. :D

Steve T.
 

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Simba is right. On an open course the Supra will kill the Elise in the straights. Just check the C5 vs. Elise vid on the 'Ring for proof.
 

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Well yeah, on a fourteen mile road course the Supra will get enough straights to spank an elise. BUT, that is not your typical road course with a trend these days to make them "tighter" for liability reasons. Road Atlanta is pretty open, Road America is too but you have to remember the Elise is no slouch in the acceleration department. What you have to remember is if the Elise is coming out of the turn five to ten miles an hour faster because it pulls a higher lateral g and has greater transient response it will pull away from a single turbo pretty quickly. You just have to hope you can run it down at the end. The video link I pasted in which shows an Elise running down a Viper at Button Willow (ASSuming the drivers are similar in skill) the Elise closed up very quickly in what looks to be a high speed sweeper opening up onto a straight. The Elise had such a higher exit speed it bore down on the Viper quickly on the straight. At least that is how I see it. I love my Supra so don't get me wrong but I would love to drive an Elise. A well balanced car that is silly fast in the turns is such a joy to drive. Driving hard and fast in the curves is what takes balls. The straights are for checking your gauges and the mirrors.

Barry H.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
you'd need to be on a course like VIR with 2 long straights, one of which being practically a mile in order to stand a chance assuming drivers were equal.

But this is almost like figuring out which is superior, a sport bike, or a supra. apples and oranges...

I almost feel i should get on the list in order to drive it for a bit, then flip it for a profit...
 
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