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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I went to the track today and first thing I noticed when hitting the transbrake was that the stall flashed way past 4k (my stall speed) and hit 5k no problem. It did this rather freely. hmmmmmm. I came out of 1st ok on the tbrake but then the car flashed from 6k to 8k. DAMN! So I shifted to 2nd and it stayed at 8k! Got out of it right away and shifted to 3rd. I coasted a bit then layed on the throttle and it flashed up to 8k again. Got out of it and shut down. Keep in mind this happened at 40 mph and I'm only going around 80 mph in 3rd when I hit it and it flashed to 8k.

I have a built th400 and a protorque converter. I don't stand on the converter long it only takes me 2 sec at most to spool up. So that's not an issue. And I have 2 tranny coolers with fans. I checked the fluid afterwards and it contained shiney graphite looking material, almost metalic like. The fluid itself was reddish like its supposed to be but it had sparkly metallic particles in it. I know this isn't a good sign. Ughhhh.

Is this a converter problem, trans problem or both? I'm removing them and sending both out but I'd just like to hear some opinons. TIA
 

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its a slow auto...
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what kind of power levels are you at? when getting the converter made did you deal directly with joe.jr at pro torque? are you sure you have enough fluid in the system since your running mutiple coolers(not enough fluid can make things act funny) was everything new when they went in(tranny/converter/lines/coolers)? while you have everything apart make sure you flush all the lines and coolers to clean them out...

jay
 

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Bad Karma Supra
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Well going past the rated stall on the brake is not all that strange at all. My concern is when you pulled 2nd and it banged into 8000rpm immediately!!

wonder if that's some clutch material you're seeing in your fluid...otherwise I'm with jay ^^^
 

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Sherbaz said:
Slipping clutches.. Been there done that.. Good luck..

Sherbaz

Ive been there too! my RPM's raised to 7K and the car was barely moving. :)

looks like it needs a rebuild.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Jay, yes everything was either new or freshened up/cleaned out. The tc was spec'd by Joe. I'm running a 74 mm turbo at 28 psi with mods so I'm probably around 680-700 whp unlocked. I have enough fluid in the system I check that quite often.

Philly, why is going past the rated stall not strange? Shouldn't that mean that its slipping?

Sherbaz and Mike, I too am inclined to think its the clutches either in the tc or tranny. Ughhh. I'll drop it and send it off tomorrow. Oh yeah, and for those that pm me wanting to know what time I ran.......LOL........I ran a 12.7. The announcer was like WTF????

Everything was fresh so I wonder why this happened. :dunno:
 

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Either the converter is way too loose, or the clutches in the tranny are slipping....
Another possibility is the tranny pump. If you do not have enough pressure it will cause both of the above problems.
 

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Bad Karma Supra
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cummins said:
Philly, why is going past the rated stall not strange? Shouldn't that mean that its slipping?
Get on the brake - you'll build more TQ than on the foot brake (due to rpm / spool, etc) - and it can flash higher than rated as you build boost & TQ.

Joe @ protorque will tell you the same...a 4k stall can get up to 5000rpm on the brake with nitrous or enough boost.

as for the 1-2shift..well.................
 

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Are you sure the damage to the trans was done on that day? Maybe you did it on another day and just realized it on that day.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the replies. Well, I just got home from work and took the car out. I hit the tbrake and was able to stall freely up to any rpm I want, ie I hit 7k. Maybe the Houston runs took its toll on it and then this pass killed it. This converter was tight when I first got it. It was a 3k stall and flashed to 4k at wot. So I was able to hit 4k on the tbrake and it would hold there. That's why I was surprised when I hit 5k with it yesterday. There's really no reason why it should have died. That pump has me thinking though. I'll yank everything tomorrow and send it out

Errol, what converter are you using?
 

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Just an old Redneck
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HTML]Errol, what converter are you using?[/HTML]

I was on a presition industries.
I have gone to a BTE converter, and it seems to be holding up better.
Hoever, I have not really put it to the test 100% yet.
The old stall speed on the brake was around 4200, until the fins laid down.
The new stall speed will be higher (5500 to 6000) on the new motor set up.
 

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Don't some of these converters also take a beating when you regular drive them too much? I believe I've read about people driving around town not realizing that their temps go through the roof and damage the conveter then find out it's jacked at the track.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
silvino said:
Don't some of these converters also take a beating when you regular drive them too much? I believe I've read about people driving around town not realizing that their temps go through the roof and damage the conveter then find out it's jacked at the track.
Yeah the higher the stall the more it will heat up. But my stall was only 3k. Tons of people are fine daily driving their supras with more stall than that so I really don't know what to say. Also, when I street drive it I don't go past 18 psi. I'll talk to the tranny and converter builders when they receive them then see what the problem is. When I get it back I'll try going to bigger tranny lines which should help increase circulation. Maybe I'll mount one of the tranny coolers in a different place too. Anything to prevent this again. I'm still wondering about the pump though. I don't drive my car in traffic and the longest I've driven it without resting it is 50 miles. I'll see what the builders have to say.
 

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Well "daily drive" is relative. I've learned this a LONG time ago that most people tend to stretch the truth. Also, some of these guys have lockup TCs but people don't realize that helps for long freeway drives when they have a 4k+ stall.

Do you monitor your trans temps all the time?

cummins said:
Yeah the higher the stall the more it will heat up. But my stall was only 3k. Tons of people are fine daily driving their supras with more stall than that so I really don't know what to say. Also, when I street drive it I don't go past 18 psi. I'll talk to the tranny and converter builders when they receive them then see what the problem is. When I get it back I'll try going to bigger tranny lines which should help increase circulation. Maybe I'll mount one of the tranny coolers in a different place too. Anything to prevent this again. I'm still wondering about the pump though. I don't drive my car in traffic and the longest I've driven it without resting it is 50 miles. I'll see what the builders have to say.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
silvino said:
Well "daily drive" is relative. I've learned this a LONG time ago that most people tend to stretch the truth. Also, some of these guys have lockup TCs but people don't realize that helps for long freeway drives when they have a 4k+ stall.

Do you monitor your trans temps all the time?
Yeah I know that people stretch the truth when saying that their car is streetable or a daily driver. But I'm not at the mods where it would prevent the car from being that way. I can't lock mine up. I could when on the stock toy but not with the th400 and transbrake. I do monitor the tranny temps and they stay in the 160s. Plus my stall is only 3k. Not a big stall by any means.
 

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cummins said:
Yeah I know that people stretch the truth when saying that their car is streetable or a daily driver. But I'm not at the mods where it would prevent the car from being that way. I can't lock mine up. I could when on the stock toy but not with the th400 and transbrake. I do monitor the tranny temps and they stay in the 160s. Plus my stall is only 3k. Not a big stall by any means.

What were your tranny temps during your runs at the track?

If you read my last post in my thread titled "10.01 so close"

You will see my setup does the same thing when tranny temps are over 150.

Keep in mind those temps are taken from the trans pan, I will be installing another gauge very shortly to monitor fluid temps before the tranny cooler where they can be much hotter.

Ideally you should be launching with a 2 step and have it set about 200 rpm's below your flash rpm.

Reving past your flash on the trans brake WILL DESTROY any converter.

Do yourself a favor and launch off of a 70 shot, its more consistent, faster, & will make your converter last much longer.

I have found using my Tbrake heats the tranny too much and causes more slippage and a slower run.
 

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cummins said:
I checked the fluid afterwards and it contained shiney graphite looking material, almost metalic like. The fluid itself was reddish like its supposed to be but it had sparkly metallic particles in it. I know this isn't a good sign. Ughhhh.

Is this a converter problem, trans problem or both? I'm removing them and sending both out but I'd just like to hear some opinons. TIA
The end result could be damage to both, but sounds like TC material in your fluid. I found the same in my fluid right after I noticed my TC slipping way past the stall point. When I had the tranny inspected, found that the TC material messed-up my first and second gear clutches.

Brad
 

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Discussion Starter #19
banton said:
The end result could be damage to both, but sounds like TC material in your fluid. I found the same in my fluid right after I noticed my TC slipping way past the stall point. When I had the tranny inspected, found that the TC material messed-up my first and second gear clutches.

Brad
Yikes, sounds just like my problem. I noticed 1-2 shift was kinda mushy after all this happened. What do you think caused your converter to fail?

T78, my tranny temps were in the low 160's during the run. I also towed the car to the track. I replied with a few questions in your "so close" post.
 

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its a slow auto...
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sittting on a trans brake for extended periods will kill trannies and converter..

i dont know what kind of tranny temps i have, but i do literally drive my car all over..drove 75 miles on night to a street race, ran my car and drove it back home... my car see's stop and go driving aswell as highway driving, i lock my converter while racing and cruising... and this is with a converter that stalled to about 3700 rpm.... also, some material in the fluid is normal..if you fluid has alot of material in then you have an issue to be concerned with... i have never seen fluid come out of my tranny or any of my fathers trannies that didnt have some material in it...

i run a double stacked derale cooler plus use the stock lower radiator cooling and i have a fan that has never been turned on.. we just had a car come in that was acting weird,stall speed was changing on its own, car wouldn't shift right, it was 2 1/2 quarts low on tranny fluid...
your next issue will be who blams it on who.. joe a pro torque is an honest guy and if your converter broke for whatever reason he'll tell you and will most likely be able to give an explaination... it kinda sucks when thing happen in a tranny or converter, because regardless of which one caused the issue they both usually wind up breaking..


make sure you flush all your lines and coolers before putting you stuff back in the car or you could wreck the tranny and converter again...

jay
 
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