[sks]

I've search and searched and i'm not sure what the exact answers are with respect to cooling mods needed to road race with a FMIC. The assumption is that a 3-row or equivalent FMIC will be used during a road race at warm temperatures (85-100 degrees). With your assistance, the hope of this thread is to be the authority on the topic. The goal is to educate those considering road racing the SupraTT. The scope of the thread includes all cooling modifications (brake, power steering, engine, etc.) and will be divided into two categories BPU (stock twin turbos) and APU (single turbo). For further clarification, BPU will be defined as stock twins and bolt on peformance upgrades (boost, pipes, intake), and APU will mean any upgraded single turbo (realistically seen on a road course) and any other supporting mods. Obviously there will be a bit of overlap, but it will help those at various stages. Please comment and add to thread as you please.

QUESTION: WHAT COOLING MODS ARE NEED FOR A BPU AND APU SUPRAS WITH FMIC? [PLEASE ADD OR FILL IN MISSING ITEMS, COST, AND LEVEL OF NECESSITY. THANKS]


BPU SUPRA
Cooling Item / Cost Range / Necessity

1) Radiator/~$500-?/Helpful, needed on hot days
2) Oil Cooler/ ~$200-$880/ Needed/Absolutely Necessary
3) Transmission Cooler / ??? / Not Needed
4) Power Steering Cooler/ $20-$120/ Absolutely Necessary
5) Radiater Scoop / ??? / Helpful
6) Vented Hood / $400-$1500/ Helpful
7) Brake Ducting / $40/ Needed
8)Radiator Cap / ~$37/ Not Needed/Helpful
9) Thermostat / ???/ Recommended/Needed
10) Oil Cooler Ducts/ ??? / Recommended/Needed
11) Power Steering Ducts/ ??? / Recommended/Needed
12) Fan between Radiator and FMIC/ $85 / Not Needed
13) Upgraded Fans behind Radiator/ $400 / Not Needed
14) Upper Radiator Plate/ $80-$150 / Not Needed - Hood sufficiently traps air
15) Oil Cooler Ducting/ ??? / Helpful?
16) PWR Steering Cooler Ducting / ??? / Helpful?
17) Fan for Oil Cooler / $69/ Helpful/Needed/Absolutely Necessary?
18) Fan for PWR Steerting Cooler/ $69/ Helpful/Needed/Absolutely Necessary?
19) 160 Degree Thermostate/ $83/ Helpful/Needed/Absolutely Necessary?

Current Total NEEDED/ABSOLUTELY NEEDED COSTS: [INCOMPLETE]

_________________________________________________________________________
APU SUPRA
Cooling Item / Cost Range / Necessity

1) Radiator/ ~$500-?/ Helpful, needed on hot days
2) Oil Cooler/ ~$200-$880/ Needed/Absolutely Necessary
3) Transmission Cooler / ???/ Not Needed
4) Power Steering Cooler/ $20-$120/ Absolutely Necessary
5) Radiater Scoop/ ???/ Helpful
6) Vented Hood/ $400-$1500/ Helpful
7) Brake Ducting/ $40/ Needed
8)Radiator Cap/ ~$37/ Not Needed/Helpful
9) Thermostat / $75/ Recommended/Needed
10) Oil Cooler Ducts / ???/ Recommended/Needed
11) Power Steering Ducts/ ???/ Recommended
12) Fan between Radiator and FMIC/ $85/ Not Needed
13) Upgraded Fans behind Radiator/ $400/ Not Needed
14) Upper Radiator Plate/ $80-$150 / Not Needed - Hood sufficiently traps air
15) Oil Cooler Ducting/ ??? / Helpful?
16) PWR Steering Cooler Ducting / ??? / Helpful?
17) Fan for Oil Cooler / $69/ Helpful/Needed/Absolutely Necessary?
18) Fan for PWR Steerting Cooler/ $69/ Helpful/Needed/Absolutely Necessary?
19) 160 Degree Thermostate/ $83/ Helpful/Needed/Absolutely Necessary?

Current Total NEEDED/ABSOLUTELY NEEDED COSTS: [INCOMPLETE]

A sticky on coolers (oil, pwr steering, etc.) can be found here: http://supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165165

 

[KumiJr]

BPU SUPRA
Cooling Item / Cost Range / Necessity
1) Radiator ~$500-? (Helpful, needed on hot days, TRd thermo too)
2) Oil Cooler ~$300-850 (Needed/Absolutely Necessary?)

3) Transmission Cooler ??? (Not Needed
)
4) Power Steering Cooler 20-120 (Absolutely Necessary?)

5) Radiater Scoop varies (Helpful/
)
6) Vented Hood 400-1000 (Helpful/

7) Brake Ducting 40 (Needed)

8)Radiator Cap 30 (/Helpful)

Same goes for APU, which isnt going to bring the power up that much more. Only like another 200(useful power atleast). If you road race in warmer climates, larger coolers will benfit. Also, DUCTS are very important, so plan on making some custom ones for the oil cooler and power steering cooler. It helps a lot.

 

[sks]

Thanks for the contribution. First Post udated. Can anyone else add items, costs, or quibble about the necessity of certain items.

 

[MyKarIsVicious]

APU SUPRA
Cooling Item / Cost Range / Necessity

1) Radiator $400-$500 Helpful, needed on hot days
2) Oil Cooler ~$500 Needed/Absolutely Necessary
3) Transmission Cooler ??? Not Needed
4) Power Steering Cooler $20-$120 Absolutely Necessary
5) Radiater Scoop ??? Helpful
6) Vented Hood $400-$1000 Helpful
7) Brake Ducting $40 Needed
8)Radiator Cap ~$30 Helpful
9) Thermostat $75 Recodmended
10) Oil Cooler Ducts ??? recodmended
11) Power Steering Ducts ??? recodmended
12) Fan between Radiator
and FMIC ??? not needed
13) Upgraded Fans behind
Radiator ??? stock fan

Current Total NEEDED/ABSOLUTELY NEEDED COSTS: $1440+ [INCOMPLETE][/QUOTE]

 

[AlxRSPTT]

You really don't need to spend $800 on an oil cooler. As long as you find a quality one it can be had for a couple hundred, complete. Those blitz, and HKS, and whatever oil cooler kits are a waste of money IMO.

I have an extra stock hood already painted that I'm going to cut up, and buy some vents from carbontrix. Maybe I can get it finished over the summer. Shouldn't cost me more than $300 including the price of the hood. But, Seibon hoods are what, $600 now? $1500 sounds like a good at MAX budget for just those things. Upper radiator cooling plate may be helpful as well with a FMIC.

Alex

 

[quick]

What's a radiator scoop?

How will a thermostat make a difference? Once it's open, it's open.

How will a rad cap help?

 

[Nick 95 6sp]

I think it's worth referencing the existing "Sticky: Regarding coolers (pwr strng, oil, etc.)" thread at the top of this section since it has a lot of good info in it.

My personal input for this thread based on my most recent actual experience will have to wait until I track my car, since I will just be tracking mine for the first time on May 5 with my new small single turbo setup, smaller than usual FMIC, power steering cooler, etc.

At BPU levels as hard as I could drive, with the stock FMIC, stock brake setup with Carbotech XP8 pads, no ducting of any kind except in-place stock stuff, stock cooling system -- I never had any overheating issues at all.

 

[quick]

At BPU levels as hard as I could drive, with the stock FMIC, stock brake setup with Carbotech XP8 pads, no ducting of any kind except in-place stock stuff, stock cooling system -- I never had any overheating issues at all.

Same setup here and the problem areas for me were:
- brake fade due to boiling fluid
- power steering fluid boilover

No engine temp issues ever arose.

 

[sks]

I think it's worth referencing the existing "Sticky: Regarding coolers (pwr strng, oil, etc.)" thread at the top of this section since it has a lot of good info in it.

My personal input for this thread based on my most recent actual experience will have to wait until I track my car, since I will just be tracking mine for the first time on May 5 with my new small single turbo setup, smaller than usual FMIC, power steering cooler, etc.

At BPU levels as hard as I could drive, with the stock FMIC, stock brake setup with Carbotech XP8 pads, no ducting of any kind except in-place stock stuff, stock cooling system -- I never had any overheating issues at all.

Do you mean you had a FMIC on stock twins and stuff or that you the stock intercooler with no problems? Please clarify. I'll update the first post with the most recent information later. Thanks again, Please keep chiming in.

 

[sks]

What's a radiator scoop?

How will a thermostat make a difference? Once it's open, it's open.

How will a rad cap help?

What I meant for the radiator scoop was something that channels air from below straight to the radiator which is blocked frontally by the FMIC.

 

[Nick 95 6sp]

Do you mean you had a FMIC on stock twins and stuff or that you the stock intercooler with no problems? Please clarify. I'll update the first post with the most recent information later. Thanks again, Please keep chiming in.

I only drove my stock twins with the stock SMIC and never had a heat related problem of any kind; my power at the track boost levels I ran was somewhat under 400whp, since I dyno'd 435rwhp/455rwtq at higher boost on my stock twins. Perhaps another temp related factor is that I always used at least 105 or higher octane on the track.

Since I can spin this story to make me look good I sometimes say/think that I didn't have power steering or brake fluid issues since I drive very smoothly.

 

[quick]

What I meant for the radiator scoop was something that channels air from below straight to the radiator which is blocked frontally by the FMIC.

Gotcha! This is all assuming a worst-case scenario of a car with a FMIC rather than just the stock SMIC?

Can you call out the assumptions for "BPU" and "APU" (man I hate those terms )?

Since I can spin this story to make me look good I sometimes say/think that I didn't have power steering or brake fluid issues since I drive very smoothly.

:fawk: :lol: :beer:

Yes, yes -- I know I'm ham-fisted.
-Captain Ham-Fist

 

[IS_Dude]

I'll be installing a simple oil cooler setup on my car that I had setup for the IS300. It was part filter relo and part cooler so it should work well on this car too. I just have to work out where to put the cooler.

I will only be using 1 cooler, unlike the bottom picture. pictures aren't of my car, but a similar one.

 

[sks]

Gotcha! This is all assuming a worst-case scenario of a car with a FMIC rather than just the stock SMIC?

Can you call out the assumptions for "BPU" and "APU" (man I hate those terms )?

BPU will be defined as stock twins, bolt on peformance upgrades (boost, pipes, intake) and APU will mean single turbo and any other support mods.

 

[hayesee]

When I road raced BPU with no FMIC I had no overheating issues, no Oil cooler, no PS cooler

I added a FMIC to the BPU and overheated the first day I ran that setup.
I added a PS cooler and oil cooler and lower ducts to the radiator and that helped but still had to watch the temps.

Then I went APU, and added bumper nostrils and have never had an overheating problem since. The bumper nostrils made a huge difference. The single turbo doesnt get as hot underhood as the twins did.

Hope this helps.

 

[sks]

When I road raced BPU with no FMIC I had no overheating issues, no Oil cooler, no PS cooler

I added a FMIC to the BPU and overheated the first day I ran that setup.
I added a PS cooler and oil cooler and lower ducts to the radiator and that helped but still had to watch the temps.

Then I went APU, and added bumper nostrils and have never had an overheating problem since. The bumper nostrils made a huge difference. The single turbo doesnt get as hot underhood as the twins did.

Hope this helps.

Interesting observation about bpu and apu differences. What are bumper nostrils

 

[quick]

Interesting observation about bpu and apu differences. What are bumper nostrils

Take a look at his sig pic.

 

[sks]

When I road raced BPU with no FMIC I had no overheating issues, no Oil cooler, no PS cooler

I added a FMIC to the BPU and overheated the first day I ran that setup.
I added a PS cooler and oil cooler and lower ducts to the radiator and that helped but still had to watch the temps.

Then I went APU, and added bumper nostrils and have never had an overheating problem since. The bumper nostrils made a huge difference. The single turbo doesnt get as hot underhood as the twins did.

Hope this helps.

Are you saying that a single turbo does not get as hot as teh twins generally, or did u mean now with the nostrils in place?

The nostrils seem to be a very cost efficient and effective mod. Could i please see pictures of the whole car with nostrils.

And here is a newby question. If bpu cars without fmic dont have cooling issues, and radiators only cool the engine, why would one need to get an oil cooler or ps cooler? thanks

 

[turbomx5]

And here is a newby question. If bpu cars without fmic dont have cooling issues, and radiators only cool the engine, why would one need to get an oil cooler or ps cooler? thanks

Engine oil is also cooled by the radiator coolant.

And stock cars come with a ps cooler. its just not a very effective one.

And in my experience, PS coolers are a requirement no matter what your turbo set up is. It becomes more and more important based on the tire compound you are running.

In my opinion, the MOST important mods for tracking, not road racing, a supra are proper cooling ducts, and a PS cooler if you are on r compounds. Most people ignore the first one because it doesn't cost any money. If you don't force air through your coolers and brakes, it will take the path of least resisitance and go around them. If you are going to spend lots of money on fancy, flashy heat exchangers, you need to give them a chance to do thier job. I believe this is a good protion of the reason cars with the stock SMIC don't have huge cooling problems- they still have the factory ducting. If you remove the undertray which everyone seems to do with a FMIC, you'd have the same problems guys with FMIC's have.

Curtis and DynoXtreme did a good job of sealing everything up before our track days, and in 70 deg ambient temps, we didn't have overheating issues with just a PS cooler and an upgraded radiator. With the same configuration without the ducting on a cooler day, you couldn't turn 2 laps without the car overheating.

I've even seen some race cars go to the length of using refrigeration sealant (expandable foam) to make all the ducting absolutely air tight. Its that important.

Matt

 

[Silver Supra]

Now I know it's heresy, but since I do track days and HPDEs in my AUTOMATIC Supra, I definitely need and have a tranny cooler. Even then I have to drain a bit of fluid out to keep it from overflowing.
And I do run an FMIC with the single 57mm turbo.
And PS cooler, upgraded (Koyo) radiator, etc.